Ds was just dxed with PDD-NOS is this the same as Asperger?

[nitascool]

We just got back from my ds Pscy. appointment. The Dr. was great, asked tons of questions that we were fairly prepared for... and quite a few we hadn't expected. He said ds has PDD-NOS with possible ADHD. But because ADHD has to be dxed by observations in two different environments it would be hard to dx at this time... he also said that the attention behaviors might just be his SPD interfering with his attention.

 

After telling us that he had PDD-NOS he read to us from DSMV the Asperger description, which mostly sounded like ds. He said they aren't using Asperger dx any more and that it's basically the same thing.

 

So I'm a little confused is he Aperger or PDD? or are they really the same thing?

 

He referred us too Dr. Max Wiznitzer who's a Neurologist specializing in Autism Spectrum Disorders, but we wont be seeing him until November.

 

I feel anxious and relieved at the same time. Relieved because what we are seeing as odd things about ds are really there and we weren't just imagining them... but then I was kinda hoping that we were just being overly paranoid.

[MamaSheep]

We just got back from my ds Pscy. appointment. The Dr. was great, asked tons of questions that we were fairly prepared for... and quite a few we hadn't expected. He said ds has PDD-NOS with possible ADHD. But because ADHD has to be dxed by observations in two different environments it would be hard to dx at this time... he also said that the attention behaviors might just be his SPD interfering with his attention.

 

After telling us that he had PDD-NOS he read to us from DSMV the Asperger description, which mostly sounded like ds. He said they aren't using Asperger dx any more and that it's basically the same thing.

 

So I'm a little confused is he Aperger or PDD? or are they really the same thing?

 

He referred us too Dr. Max Wiznitzer who's a Neurologist specializing in Autism Spectrum Disorders, but we wont be seeing him until November.

 

I feel anxious and relieved at the same time. Relieved because what we are seeing as odd things about ds are really there and we weren't just imagining them... but then I was kinda hoping that we were just being overly paranoid.[/QUOTE]

 

That is exactly how I felt when ds was diagnosed all those years ago. I remember the feeling well. :grouphug:

 

Your doctor probably explained this part, but PDD-NOS means "Pervasive Developmental Disorder -- Not Otherwise Specified". Generally this is a diagnosis that is applied when there's clearly something going on, but it doesn't quite meet the criteria for one of the other pervasive developmental disorders that are otherwise specified. The DSMIV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition) lists autism, Asperger's Syndrome, and a few other pervasive developmental disorders along with a sort of buffet of symptoms for each; if you have a certain number of symptoms off the list you qualify. It uses PDD-NOS as a sort of catch-all for people who have symptoms from one or more of the lists, but not enough, or not the right ones, to qualify for one of the "specified" disorders.

 

The DSMV, or DSM-5 (fifth edition of the diagnostic manual) is due out in 2013 and is currently being revised and edited. As I understand it, there are going to be some controversial changes in the realm of pervasive developmental disorders. Several of them are going to be lumped together under a single diagnosis which will be known as "Autism Spectrum Disorder". Asperger's and PDD-NOS are two of the ones that will be merging under that diagnosis. Currently Asperger's is still officially a 'real' diagnosis until the revision is published, at which point it will become "ASD". The researcher I've discussed this with worked on a 5 year, multi-million dollar study in which the whole purpose was to come up with a list of criteria to differentiate between autism and Asperger's Syndrome. They were unable to do so. But it's still a very controversial change in the manual.

 

So as far as whether or not Asperger's and PDD-NOS are the same thing? I guess it depends on whose definitions you use. In the new manual they will be considered the same disorder, but they will be called "Autism Spectrum Disorder", not PDD-NOS or Asperger's.

 

Does that help at all, or have I only confused you more? If it helps, the treatments and therapies are pretty much the same either way.

[wapiti]

You can see the differences in the diagnostic criteria here: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

[cin]

My daughter also has been diagnosed with PDD-NOS, and the Dr. told us that it WOULD be Aspie if there were social issues. I just say it's aspie because A) more people are familiar with that, and B) there is a social component, it just isn't evident when speaking one on one with an adult....

[Misty]

They are close enough that you can just tell people he has Asperger's (if you want).. The psych likely didn't give him the Asperger's diagnosis simply because that diagnosis is being eliminated in two years.. If you think he has Asperger's though, they are basically the same thing when you look at the big picture of the spectrum. They fall right about in the same place on the "functioning level" though with Asperger's you tend to see more obsessional interests and special talents.

[Spellbound]

DS received a PDD-NOS diagnosis from the psychologist first, who then referred him to a Children's Autism Center for further evaluation. There he received the diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome. Perhaps just a stepping stone in the evaluation process? It was such a relief for the whole family, a real key to understanding the dynamics that had been occuring and how to start working on them. I wish you well-

[cbollin]

they keep changing the clinical definitions like this... no wonder we're confused. in any case ((((hugs)))) for being at this point of the journey. ((((hugs))))

 

back when my daughter was dx'ed with PDD NOS, it was because of mild to moderate results and delays. she wasn't enough to be "classic autism" dx. But language development was very severely delayed and filled with echolalia. (still is at age 9), play skills weren't right. sensory issues, social development wasn't typical...... She's 9 now... first dx'ed around age 2. She was way off the scales of "neuro typical".

 

and back then, Aspie's were basically:

speech developed more normally, they spoke like little professors

still had the social issues, and need for order/sameness. social skills aren't quite right (think of math professors, computer geeks, phd scientists, my husband)

 

so, they were "autistic" except for the symptom of abnormal language development. Language development was usually the opposite side of what "autistic" go through.

 

amazing how it changes over time....

 

anyway, my little pdd gal is growing up so fast...

 

-crystal

[nitascool]

That is exactly how I felt when ds was diagnosed all those years ago. I remember the feeling well. :grouphug:.....

 

So as far as whether or not Asperger's and PDD-NOS are the same thing? I guess it depends on whose definitions you use. In the new manual they will be considered the same disorder, but they will be called "Autism Spectrum Disorder", not PDD-NOS or Asperger's.

 

Does that help at all, or have I only confused you more? If it helps, the treatments and therapies are pretty much the same either way.

 

It's nice to know that my feelings are normal.

 

I think that the Dr. is using the not yet published DSMV edition... so I guess that's why he didn't say Asperger's. Which is not helpful when someone says what's wrong with your kid.

 

 

You can see the differences in the diagnostic criteria here: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/hcp-dsm.html

 

Thank you for this site.

 

So if I'm understanding this correctly? He doesn't qualify for Autism diagnosis because he only meets two of the three categories in Autism. We answered yes to 3 out of 4 in section 1, none in section two and 3 out of 4 in section 3.

 

From the Asperger's categories we answered 3 out of 4 in section A, 3 out of 4 in section B, C we were unable to answer (he suspected that if ds were PS there would be a clinically significant impairment), D he was an advances talker. He shows impairment in social interaction, in six areas not just two. So it looks like he fits here and when he read this dx in the manual that sounded just like ds. Yet, he dxed him with PDD-NOS. Then referred us to an Autism specialist.

 

He did say that Spectrum disorders are not his specialty. So maybe with this other guy we can get a better idea of what we're dealing with... but Nov. is a long time away to be uncertain.

 

 

My daughter also has been diagnosed with PDD-NOS, and the Dr. told us that it WOULD be Aspie if there were social issues. I just say it's aspie because A) more people are familiar with that, and B) there is a social component, it just isn't evident when speaking one on one with an adult....

 

My son does have the social issues; not using eye contact, getting too close to people when talking to them, not catching nonverbal ques, not knowing when the conversation has come to a natural end, not having propper voice modulation, etc.

 

They are close enough that you can just tell people he has Asperger's (if you want).. The psych likely didn't give him the Asperger's diagnosis simply because that diagnosis is being eliminated in two years.. If you think he has Asperger's though, they are basically the same thing when you look at the big picture of the spectrum. They fall right about in the same place on the "functioning level" though with Asperger's you tend to see more obsessional interests and special talents.

 

Ds definitely has the obsessional interests and special talents. He's a natural when it comes to music and is obsessed with anything to do with the human anatomy, animals or plant life. He memorizes things that if I assigned for school I would think to difficult for a 3rd grader. For instance, last year he memorized the names of every part of the respiratory system in his Illustrated Atlas of the Human body (an adult book) and then chose to memorize every bird in our state bird guide for fun (over 1000 birds) after seeing a European Starling at our bird feeder.

 

 

Anyway, thank you ladies for your responses. I guess I'm not quite as anxious about this all in the light of a new day. Hopefully we'll get a few more pieces to this puzzle tomorrow when we go for a tour of the Integration Treatment Center with ds.

[cjbeach]

My son usually gets a "......somewhere in the pdd-nos Aspergers family." Huh??? I remember when he was first dx'd I was kinda irked by that but the diagnostic criteria is as clear as mud it seems. My son is hyperlexic so initially his "official" dx was pdd-nos/hyperlexic trait (possible Aspergers as he ages). Ummmmmmmmmmmm:001_huh:

 

This was also a big deal when my ds WAS in school because without an "autism" diagnosis in this school district, he really didn't qualify for the few services that exist here. A language delay guaranteed him speech therapy as long as was delayed.And that was it, period.

Edited March 31, 2011 by cjbeach

[Mama Pickles]

PDD-NOS is on the autism spectrum. This is the way I was taught in college: Think of autism as an umbrella and PDD-NOS, Aspergers, high functioning autism and classic autism are all under it. It's a specturm. Kids with PDD-NOS down at the left end of the spectrum seem to have less autistic tendencies than kids way down at the right end of the spectrum.

 

My DS was diagnosed with PDD-NOS. Some days I'm absolutely convinced that diagnosis is correct and he has some form of autism. Other days he acts like a typical 4 year old. Hopefully the nuerologist will be able to help you out. That long of a waiting time seems to be the norm with those kinds of appointments.

[Mom22ns]

PDDNOS can be very like or unlike Aspergers. PDD NOS just means they don't meet the qualifications for any of the other spectrum diagnosis. The diagnoses overlap in severity and in issues. My pddnos kid had a speech delay that ruled out Aspergers but was otherwise quite mild AS. I have met pddnos kids that seemed severely and completely autistic that were clearly on the severe end of the spectrum but didn't have speech issues or lacked meeting an autism diagnosis by whatever one area. An aspie may be so severely obsessive and lacking in social skills as to be in the severe range of the spectrum, while most are very high functioning. The diagnosis tells you what characteristics your child has or doesn't have. It does not tell you how severely affected by those chacteristics the are.

 

I just refer to my pddnos guy as autistic spectrum most of the time. He has a gifted IQ that makes him like Aspies in some ways. He has outgrown the speech and language issues, but is still socially awkward. However he is better socially than any of the Aspies we personally know. When I hear people talk of their Apies the traits that seem to persist are obsessions and so ail skill. Those aren't ds's big problems.

 

Each AS kid is their own group of symptoms. I would try not to look at the label but at the individual traits that got him the label and make your modifications based on that. We worked very hard on language skills for years. They were slow and hard so we spent twice as much time there as a typical child might. Now ds is caught up in his language. Knowing where the delays were helped me know what to modify and how and helped me not to get frustrated as we worked.