Question about what colleges want to see in terms of hs work

[Deece in MN]

There have been a number of posts recently about what to put on transcripts and how to create course descriptions. I have enjoyed the posts because we are gearing up for the high school years and I want to be prepared.

 

In the course of reading the posts, a question has come to my mind and it continues to bug me. So, for those who have gone through the college admission process, did the colleges your dc applied to really ask for course descriptions, reading lists, etc.?

 

I am thinking back to when I applied to college and not once was I asked to provide course descriptions or lists of books I had read or anything else like that. Now, it may be because of the schools I applied to (no big name colleges were on my list).

 

I am genuinely curious if colleges ask for these things and, if so, is it because your dc were hs'ed?

 

I know in one thread someone said something about how would a college know what English 9 was, so it would be good to have a description of the course. I thought to myself that my high school called my class English 9 and the colleges didn't ask for clarification or descriptions. So, am I missing something? Have things changed with admission policies? Or is it homeschool related?

 

I am just trying to figure out how detailed I need to be in keeping records over the next 4 years as this is my weak area and I want to be prepared.

 

Thanks!

[Janet in WA]

So, for those who have gone through the college admission process, did the colleges your dc applied to really ask for course descriptions, reading lists, etc.?

 

Yes.

 

I am genuinely curious if colleges ask for these things and, if so, is it because your dc were hs'ed?

 

Yes.

[Deece in MN]

Thanks for the reply. :)

 

I guess I find it funny (maybe a little sad even :confused:) how colleges just accept what ps students do because that is the norm, but have to question hs'ers.

 

I will have to make sure I keep good records over the next 4 years. :)

 

I really have only met 2 people who have hs'ed for high school (I would guess there are more than that in my area, but these are the only ones I have met) and they have both had their dc do the PSEO option and get a two year degree with that. I think colleges don't question courses when this route is taken, so I really don't know anyone with experience with hs'ing through high school on their own.

 

Well, this is good to know. Thanks!

[kathleen]

My response is different! The colleges to which my older son applied and the ones to which my younger son (I think) will apply did not ask for course descriptions. We happen to have them just in case, though, and it's a good idea, I think, because you never know what the trend will be when it's time to apply for your kids.

 

I happen to agree with you, Deece! People often say that homeschoolers are an "unknown" factor, but public high schools across the country are so very different in what they teach and require of their students, it really doesn't seem fair that homeschoolers are singled out like this. Even schools within the district we live in are very different. An A student in one might be a B- student in another.

[HappyatHome]

State colleges/universities that my dc applied to wanted samples of work for each course in addition to transcripts and course descriptions - one wanted 16 "booklets" of work completed in college prep classes: 4 English, 4 Math, 3 Science, 2 Foreign Lang., and 3 Social Studies.

 

Private colleges required much less - one just wanted the course names and texts used for the last two years of high school plus SAT scores.

 

On the positive side, this is changing. This evening I talked with a homeschool mom who is meeting with a state college admittance director about their current requirements (the 16 booklets, SAT scores, and transcript). She is planning to request something that more closely resembles the requirements for public schooled kids. This director is very open to her suggestions.

[pmegan]

I guess I find it funny (maybe a little sad even :confused:) how colleges just accept what ps students do because that is the norm, but have to question hs'ers.

 

College admissions officers get to know various high schools and understand their programs. They travel and visit schools, but they also know what "type" of school a high school is... wealthy suburban (probably a pretty rigorous AP program), poor urban (probably not even enough books to go around), and so forth. For schools from which they get a lot of applicants, they'll know the program very well, including what books they read. (And let's be honest, there's a pretty short list of what every public school in the country has its students read)

 

For example, it's a little known fact, but they will even take a students' classmates SAT/ACT scores into account when looking at that student... did they score a 2000 in a school where the average was 1800? Or in a school where the average score was 2200? If the first, the student is probably a really hard worker who has overcome obstacles: if the second, the student was probably given every educational opportunity in life and didn't meet her potential. (Note: I have NO idea about the scores I just posted... I took the SATs back when it was a 1600 scale, and all I know is now it's a 2400 scale)

 

With a homeschool, there is no way to know. It's really not bias against homeschools, I promise. (Bias might exist elsewhere, but not in them asking for a list). They just want to know the student that they're dealing with.

[Beth in OH]

So, for those who have gone through the college admission process, did the colleges your dc applied to really ask for course descriptions, reading lists, etc.?

 

University of Cincinnati--No. Dd accepted.

DePaul University--No. Dd accepted.

Fordham University--No. Dd accepted.

NYU--Yes. Course descriptions, because dd was a homeschooler. She would have also had to get a GED after her freshman year (go figure). Highly competitive school (37,000 applications this year for 4000 spots). Dd was not accepted.

 

In general, dd was treated like any ps kid as far as the admissions process went. I made her transcript, supplemented it with a certified partial transcript from the ps where she had taken a few courses, I wrote the counselor recommendation (she had an independent teacher do the teacher rec.). She did not list any AP credits, but she had a very good, not stellar, ACT score.

 

The process is a pain, because I had to act as parent and guidance counselor. Nevertheless, I thought dd was treated fairly.:)

[Guest sebastian]

There was another post like this recently. The mom wanted to know what to keep for colleges. The important thing is that every school is different. Some asked my son for nothing extra than other students, some asked for course descriptions and textbook lists, one asked for reading list. If you have any idea of the schools your child is considering (or even the type of schools) then find their websites or go to collegeboard.com and see what their requirements are. It's not too early to do this in middle school and it may be too late in high school. Collegeboard site even has a section for home school requirements under the individual schools - this may be harder to find on the school's website. You might consider calling - we called every school even if their sites listed it - just to confirm. I was very surprised when I first learned that parents have to write the couselor rec. That seemed silly to me but I had to do it anyway. I recommend you hold on to some of their best work just in case you are asked for it later. Good SAT/ACT scores, SAT subject test, APs or cc credits will help validate your home school grades, too. If they correlate, then I believe they are less likely to ask for more information.

[Gwen in VA]

I second pmegan's post in toto.

 

The option homeschoolers have to present course descriptions, book lists, etc. is a BONUS to homeschoolers.

 

The college in question might NOT accept a student from Podunk High School because it is either known as a weak high school or because the admissions people know nothing about it. If your child went to Podunk High School, he will just have a harder time getting into college....But because we homeschool, we can present all kinds of extra information. We can SHOW the admissions people what an awesome education our kids received.

 

Yes, preparing all this stuff is extra work, but it will benefit your kids.

 

BTW, most of the colleges my kids applied to required course descriptions, etc. From our experience, any college with an admissions rate < 33% will pretty much require course descriptions. (Generalization based on our experience....)

[Storm Bay]

You may wish to read a book such as Homeschooling Highschool. I read this this spring. It explains the types of things to record through high school. One of the strongest recommendations is to check the requirements of each college applied for. Some state requirements for homeschoolers, others don't, but it's good to call and ask. What some ask for, others would rather not read.

[Nan in Mass]

What I meant was that we were writing descriptive TITLES for the courses, so instead of listing "English 1" on my son's transcript, I'm listing "Classical Literature and Analysis". This is to show, on the transcript, at a glance, that my son did something a little unusual for English. In courses where my son didn't do anything other than what is done in a typical high school, I gave the course a plain name. I'm also doing course descriptions, but I don't want to burden colleges with those unless they want them. My son will probably call each college he applies to and ask what they would like us as homeschoolers to send. At this point, with college apps half a year away, I'm grateful that I made the course descriptions as I went along. I also have all his work, so I can put together a portfolio, if need be, since he won't have grades other than pass/fail from anything taken at home. I won't put that together unless we really need it, probably, because that is going to take some work and I would want to compose it with a specific college in mind, but I've kept mental notes about what would be good to include.

HTH

-Nan

[Deece in MN]

What I meant was that we were writing descriptive TITLES for the courses, so instead of listing "English 1" on my son's transcript, I'm listing "Classical Literature and Analysis". This is to show, on the transcript, at a glance, that my son did something a little unusual for English. In courses where my son didn't do anything other than what is done in a typical high school, I gave the course a plain name. I'm also doing course descriptions, but I don't want to burden colleges with those unless they want them. My son will probably call each college he applies to and ask what they would like us as homeschoolers to send. At this point, with college apps half a year away, I'm grateful that I made the course descriptions as I went along. I also have all his work, so I can put together a portfolio, if need be, since he won't have grades other than pass/fail from anything taken at home. I won't put that together unless we really need it, probably, because that is going to take some work and I would want to compose it with a specific college in mind, but I've kept mental notes about what would be good to include.

HTH

-Nan

 

I see what you are saying. I do have another question. You said that you are doing a pass/fail for classes taken at home. How will you give a gpa or won't you do this?

 

I don't intend to do letter grades for my dc work in my own records, but have been told I should give one to put on transcripts. I understand the reasoning behind people telling me this, but am still not 100% convinced to do so.

 

Thanks.

[Deece in MN]

There have been so many great replies to my question that it would take me a while to quote and respond to everyone. So, in the interest of time, I want to say a collective Thank You!!! :thumbup:

 

You all have given me some great advice and I appreciate that. I have already resigned myself to the fact that the next 4 years is going to be a good amount of work on my part. I am not trying to avoid it, really. :)

 

I see the point that was made about colleges being familiar with ps and that in some cases your ps could be a point against you.

 

I am going to look at some more books on this topic. I have the Senior High Form-U-La (I think that is the title), but haven't looked at it for a while. I have also noticed that different books will give different advice depending on the approach the author took with their family.

 

Anyway, thank you all for clarifying this for me. I really am looking forward to the next 4 years. Thanks to all who are paving the way! :)

[Jane in NC]

Hi Deece--

 

One more comment beyond "Check with the College".

 

It seems that homeschoolers were anomalies at some schools until recent years. I have heard it said that some of the colleges are altering their procedures for homeschool applicants as their numbers increase.

 

Last week my son was looking over the website of Dickinson College in Carlisle, PA, which asks that homeschoolers submit one of three things: 1) a diploma from a state recognized source, 2) a GED or 3) Comprehensive representation of the student's grades 9-12 curriculum via portfolio, course outlines, syllabi, or log book.

 

Here's a quote from Marlboro College's website:

 

Do you accept students who have been homeschooled?

 

Yes! Often, homeschooling engenders the same qualities that make for successful Marlboro students: self motivation, a passion for learning, and original thought. As such, homeschoolers have been among our strongest candidates for admissions.

 

The application procedure for homeschooled students is the same as for other students with the notable exception of the high school transcript requirement. In lieu of a transcript, we ask for a description of the homeschool curriculum. This would include lists of books read, projects completed and areas of study.

 

Here is Duke's take:

 

Homeschooled students are encouraged to apply for admission and are eligible for all scholarships offered at Duke. The admissions application itself is the same for all students, regardless of educational background. We require a transcript (homemade transcripts are perfectly acceptable as long as they list the courses of study a student has followed for the four years of high school or equivalent), recommendations from three instructors (at least two of whom are not related to the applicant—and employers, religious leaders, sports coaches or other adults can write these recommendations if all academic instruction takes place in the home), essays, an extracurricular activities list, and standardized testing. Applicants are not required to present a GED or proof of accreditation. There is no separate application for Duke's merit scholarships; all students are considered for merit scholarships on the basis of their application for admission.

 

Most homeschooled students admitted to Duke have followed varied curricula. We do not support or prefer any particular program. Some of our homeschooled applicants follow packaged curricula with outside evaluators, some enroll exclusively in local college classes, some teach themselves independently, some rely on their parents' instruction—but most offer a combination of different approaches. In an effort to encourage homeschoolers to choose the most appropriate individual academic path, we do not endorse any one pattern.

 

It goes on to say that they expect students to take SAT subject tests.

 

Schools are different and what they expect today may change next year. I think that we just need to be prepared.

 

Jane

[Kareni]

I am going to look at some more books on this topic. I have the Senior High Form-U-La (I think that is the title), but haven't looked at it for a while. I have also noticed that different books will give different advice depending on the approach the author took with their family.

 

Since you are looking for book recommendations, here is one of my favorites on the topic:

 

Homeschooling High School: Planning Ahead for College Admission (New and Updated) (New and Updated) by Jeanne Gowen Dennis

 

Here is the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Homeschooling-High-School-Planning-Admission/dp/1932096116/ref=ed_oe_p/104-6572652-8235967

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Deece in MN]

Hi Deece--

 

One more comment beyond "Check with the College".

 

It seems that homeschoolers were anomalies at some schools until recent years. I have heard it said that some of the colleges are altering their procedures for homeschool applicants as their numbers increase.

 

Schools are different and what they expect today may change next year. I think that we just need to be prepared.

 

Jane

 

Yes, this is true. I am trying to keep this in mind and prepare my ds the best we can, especially since he doesn't know what direction he wants to go in yet.

Thanks!

[Deece in MN]

Since you are looking for book recommendations, here is one of my favorites on the topic:

 

Homeschooling High School: Planning Ahead for College Admission (New and Updated) (New and Updated) by Jeanne Gowen Dennis

 

Here is the Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Homeschooling-High-School-Planning-Admission/dp/1932096116/ref=ed_oe_p/104-6572652-8235967

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check this out!

[lv2sing]

Yes, it is required for us to write these for matriculation into our state university and it is because we hs. We have banded together and are helping each other get some consistency going. I am using Inge Cannon's Education Plus material to keep good records.

Joy to you today.

[lv2sing]

I agree with Karen regarding the book that she suggests. I have read parts of it and our curriculum (MFW) suggests reading it.

 

Joy,

 

Ronda

[Nan in Mass]

I'm not giving one. I'll list CC GPA instead. I talked to a mother of a child who went to a private school which didn't give grades. She said they had to put 0 for the GPA, and that hurt, but that her daughter had gotten into highly selective private colleges just fine. One asked to see the portfolio. The others didn't. Here, there have been several people who have done ungraded transcripts and had no trouble. I think it depends on which colleges one applies to. A state university is more likely to balk at no grades than a small private college, since they don't have time to go reviewing portfolios or things like that.

-Nan

[Janet in WA]

I'm not giving one. I'll list CC GPA instead. I talked to a mother of a child who went to a private school which didn't give grades. She said they had to put 0 for the GPA, and that hurt, but that her daughter had gotten into highly selective private colleges just fine. One asked to see the portfolio. The others didn't. Here, there have been several people who have done ungraded transcripts and had no trouble. I think it depends on which colleges one applies to. A state university is more likely to balk at no grades than a small private college, since they don't have time to go reviewing portfolios or things like that.

-Nan

We found GPA's necessary for certain scholarships. The amount of the scholarship was determined by a formula using GPA and SAT/ACT scores. No (or a zero) GPA wouldn't yield any scholarship money in those situations.

[Nan in Mass]

Ah - I hadn't heard that. I doubt we'll be getting scholarships here, especially if they involve SAT scores LOL, but that's good to know. I'll have to make sure I pass that along every time I wind up explaining about grades, or lack thereof.

[Jan P.]

There have been a number of posts recently about what to put on transcripts and how to create course descriptions. I have enjoyed the posts because we are gearing up for the high school years and I want to be prepared.

 

In the course of reading the posts, a question has come to my mind and it continues to bug me. So, for those who have gone through the college admission process, did the colleges your dc applied to really ask for course descriptions, reading lists, etc.?

 

No,

 

Not one college asked for a list of books that he had read or a description of his courses. He turned in a transcript and filled out many forms that described his extracurricular/leadership type activities. My ds applied at 3 colleges and one university.

 

HTH,

Jan

[Pamela H in Texas]

I happen to agree with you, Deece! People often say that homeschoolers are an "unknown" factor, but public high schools across the country are so very different in what they teach and require of their students, it really doesn't seem fair that homeschoolers are singled out like this. Even schools within the district we live in are very different. An A student in one might be a B- student in another.

 

However, public high schools have to meet at least state minimum standards for each level as well as course. SO where it's not homogenous by any stretch, the college can feel decent that at least a minimum standard was met.

 

Homeschoolers are not the same. We are all over the board in relation to what we teach, when we teach it, how we teach it, how we evaluate it, etc. Colleges don't know if our kids have a 5th grade education or a college education when we graduate them. And honestly, though it seems like many of those homeschoolers that go on to college do quite well, *I* personally am meeting, now that my kids are teens, more and more non-schoolers, people who are not educating their children in the slightest (and I'm making a huge distinction from unschoolers whose children get an education, just differently). THe people I'm meeting are claiming their 17yo is finally doing Algebra but that student couldn't tell you what that book looks like or the last time he saw it, but his transcript will claim he did not only ALgebra but Algebra II and Geometry during high school (before he's 20?).

 

Anyway, imo, the idea is to be reasonably ready for whatever they may ask at the end of your four years. You can tweak up or down in the end.

 

Pamela

[Reya]

Thanks for the reply. :)

 

I guess I find it funny (maybe a little sad even :confused:) how colleges just accept what ps students do because that is the norm, but have to question hs'ers.

 

Oh, I think it's FABULOUS! You get to really show what your DC have learned--and how superior it is to PS!