Removing a child struggling in ps, does it keep them from developing survival skills?

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

Recently an acquaintance of mine was considering taking her first grader out of public school and homeschooling next year. Her young daughter entered 1st grade ahead in terms of skills but now seems to be 'behind' and the student/teacher relationship has been a tough one. I think that all around this has been a tough year for her daughter.

 

Someone commented to her that it is our job as parents not to keep our kids happy but train them to overcome the situation...to be the best they can be in spite of their environment. It is our job as parents to 'stand beside them' and help them soldier through, I guess.

 

My first rhetorical question for the day: By taking our kids out of less than ideal situations, are we training them to take the easy way out?

 

The second comment was one I've heard often: our kids need to be in school to be good examples to the other children. (For Christians, this gets even more pointed: It is our children's responsibility to be witnesses to the other children in their school.)

 

My second rhetorical question: Do our young children have social responsibilities?

 

My heart aches for a little 7 year old girl who is now expected to overcome her environment in order to make her stronger. Bleh.

[Claire]

No, no, no.

 

It is the job of parents to *nurture* their children. Nurturing makes children strong. This means providing them with *what they need* to thrive.

 

This is a child who clearly is not thriving in the public school classroom. Bringing her home will simply exchange a toxic environment for her to a nurturing environment. Once she is strong, she can always go back to the school environment *if* the school environment is then one that meets her needs.

 

Suffering does *not* make a child stronger.

[Brindee]

My opinion is this: By keeping my children home and training them with values and beliefs that we feel are important, they will eventually have a belief and be able to stand against the "storms of the world". At young ages they're just developing a sense of who they are and what they believe, and are easily swayed and easily hurt. I don't think forcing a child to go through lots of trouble and pain and problems at young ages, IF there is another route, is needed! Let them grow and mature and build their faith muscles before throwing them into the fight! They WILL be able to stand up for their beliefs and be good examples---when they've matured!

 

I think of it this way: If you give a 7yo Algebra or calculus problems and expect them to get through it on their own to build character and strength in that area, how well will they do (aside from the very few geniuses that actually CAN do calculus at 7yo!)? Not well! Why? Because they don't have the grounding, the strong base, to draw from!

 

No, we're not teaching them to take the easy way out, we are building them up. We are teaching them not to pick battles they're not ready for because it will only cause problems. We are teaching them that the stronger you are in something, the more prepared you are with information and knowledge, the better you will do---in schoolwork, as well as life in general.

 

Our young children have social responsibilities as much as they can. But throwing them into, or leaving them in, bad situations "to build character", can actually harm them more than help them.

 

This is all only mho of course! :)

[Kris]

I can't help you with the witnesses part, but I can help you with the rest of it.

 

While I agree that kids need to learn how to handle the situations in which they find themselves, it sounds to me like this seven year old is in one that would overwhelm her. What are the lessons there? "Learned helplessness" comes to mind.

 

I did struggle with this same thing before I pulled my son from PS, and even though he was, generally, handling his problems in a socially acceptable manner, he was miserable. Now that he's been home for a few years and has built up his confidence, he can handle things *and* be happy with his choices at the same time.

 

They do need to learn how to handle themselves, but they also need to know they can count on us when the going gets rough.

[Plucky]

I don't think any of those questions are appropriate for this situation nor do they apply. First grade should be fun. If it isn't then there is definitely a problem.

 

I have homeschooled my 14 year old from the beginning. He has an incredible servant's heart. He takes the lead in many situations, teaches merit badge classes, and helps mentor younger boys. He has been in difficult social situations. When he was younger he was too sensitive for his own good and was picked on. By putting him in situations where he succeeds and is accepted for who he is that has made him able to withstand more difficult social situations. I don't think it matters where one learns these skills as long as kids have access to good mentors.

[Guest Shanna]

I have never understood how and why people use the light and salt excuse when it comes to PS. How can we expect children to be able to do this when they havent had time to build the base for knowledge of the Lord but also know how to disciple others.

 

It is our job as parents to love, nuture, and teach our children. That is what builds strong children.

[Sue G in PA]

I used to think it was our dc's job as Christians to be a witness in the "dark world" as well. Then a friend of mine (also a Christian) put this spin on it: Do we send our 7 yr. olds into battle? Would you send an untrained soldier into battle? Ahhh...good point I thought. So true. Our children are CHILDREN. They are not seasoned Christians ready to wage that battle against the forces of this world! They need training, nurturing, teaching, equipping, etc. before they are ready to wage that battle! I found that the ps was more an influence on my impressionable children than my dc were on the ps students, KWIM?

 

As to social responsibility and learning to "overcome" the obstacles in their path....don't we as parents have some sort of responsibility to protect our children from that type of harm? We pulled my dc out of ps when my dd experienced severe bullying in 3rd grade. She was picked on, pushed, shoved, tripped, laughed at, teased, left out, etc. She made up reasons to go to the nurses office EVERY DAY to hide. The guidance counselor just shrugged her shoulders and said she couldn't be w/ this nasty group of girls every hour of every day. My good-natured, outgoing, sweet little girl was turning into somebody we didn't even know right before our eyes (ill tempered, introverted, shy, angry, sad, etc.). Was I to sit back and just let her "handle it" on her own. IMNSHO...h*ll no! And, FWIW, my dd is NOT the typical stereotype of a child who would be a magnet for bullying

 

Okay, that being said...we do need to equip our dc with "tools" to overcome certain things. BUT, why do we need to throw them into the lion's den, ill-equipped, as their first trial? Sort of sets them up for failure if you ask me. Your friend must realize her dd is ONLY 7! That is so very young to have to "fend for themself", KWIM? I feel sorry for that little girl. I hope your friend comes around and realizes the difference btwn. sheltering and protecting. Just my .02.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I appreciate the replies so far!

 

I'll share one of the thoughts that came to mind:

 

Why isn't the decision to homeschool used to show kids how to overcome obstacles? Some adults could truly use the wisdom to think outside the box and get themselves out of certain situations (and into better ones) rather than muddling along and 'dealing with it.'

[Twinmom]

I've got a big ole "yes, but..." brewing!

 

Yes, but...our children aren't soldiers! "Soldiering through" a situation that isn't meeting her developmental needs and causing her to fall behind isn't character-building, it's just nuts! She can learn to "soldier on through" in other situations (like, when a friendship gets tough, or when gymnastics skills don't come quickly, or when she doesn't feel like doing her math ;)!), but to keep her in an academic situation that isn't teaching her (isn't that what school is supposed to do rather than make her emotionally tough?) is just setting her up for failure. Make a school change for academics' sake, teach emotional wherewithal when you ask her to stick to that math assignment that is taught to her learning style/level AND you know she can do but just doesn't FEEL like doing!

 

To your first rhetorical question: Yes, but...our kiddos do have to learn to handle less than ideal situations, but that is a skill that is beyond the level of a first grader! And, isn't it a good idea to develop social skills with a dedicated parent on assist rather than by being thrust into a sink or swim academic environment that has already shown it isn't adequately teaching her? Sure, she'll have to get there someday, but let's teach her the skills she needs FIRST, not after she's already sank! And, why is school suddenly supposed to be sink or swim in first grade, anyway? I thought it was about laying a strong foundation in "swimming skills" so that a child would learn to "swim" on their own later? You don't throw a kid who cannot swim into a strong current, do you? Nope, you teach them to swim well FIRST (or, avoid a dangerous current altogether!) until she's able to handle it.

 

To your second rhetorical question: Yes, but...not until they've learned what type of example to be! In first grade (and, geez, for a lot longer!), she's still learning right and wrong, still picking up her parents' values and/or the values of her faith, and still learning how those values apply to real life. Kids aren't meant to stand alone yet, they are meant to be led down the right path by trusted adults until they are mature enough to choose their own path. It is way too early to ask that child to be an example to anyone...if you want someone to be an example to the public school kids, let it be the teacher!

 

That said, if you are talking about faith here, the stakes are even higher. One thing the public schools do really well is impart their own value system to the child. If secular humanism, "only the strong survive," teaching to the lowest common denominator and the belief that the young always know more than the old are the values a parent wants for their child, by all means enroll in the public school system! For the Christian, if you are hoping your child will influence others for Christ, wait until they are strong in their own values to have them do so. Don't put them in an environment that teaches them values of a very different sort and ask them to stand alone! That's for adults to do, not kids. Send Christian teachers and administrators into the system...don't ask a little child to change things. The system will change the child, not the other way around.

 

OK, rant over now...:rant:. My heart aches for that little girl as well. Home schooling may or may not be the answer for her, but geez...I hope that her parents can use some common sense and meet her needs instead of leaving her to sink or swim alone.

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I think kids all need to deal with struggle but none of them need to do it 8 hours/day, 5 days/week.

[Tracey in TX]

 

My first rhetorical question for the day: By taking our kids out of less than ideal situations, are we training them to take the easy way out?

 

 

My second rhetorical question: Do our young children have social responsibilities?

 

 

 

I'm a pretty "suck it up" type of parent, so my attitudes tend to be a bit harsher than many moms here. With that being said...

 

I do believe taking our kids out of less than ideal situations teaches a kid to cop out and find the easy way out IF other avenues have not been pursued. Find a solution to the problem before ditching the entire situation. If you're not part of the solution, you end up being a part of the perpetuating problem. This isn't to say that aiding the child or taking them out of a caustic environment shouldn't be done. It depends on what the parent values as a characteristic they want in their children as they grow. I desire strong, independent children who solve problems first, a leader. This isn't always conducive with a sweet, gentle child--sometimes more of a bull in a china shop (ok, a bit of exaggeration)! To love a child means sometimes forcing them to grow beyond their comfort zone, IMO.

 

Social responsibilities: don't we all have some form of a social responsibility? This isn't meant to be sarcastic, but we all have roles to play in life. Be the best example, work hard, love and be loved, and be as kind to others, etc. that we are able.

 

Hope your friend's DD is happier as summer arrives and she is out of her teacher's environment. First grade is so important and stinks that she had an unhappy experience. Second grade is such a GREAT grade that no matter where DC ends up, I wish her joy :)

[Janet in WA]

Someone commented to her that it is our job as parents not to keep our kids happy but train them to overcome the situation...to be the best they can be in spite of their environment. It is our job as parents to 'stand beside them' and help them soldier through, I guess.

I have yet to see a parent stand beside their child at school.

 

My first rhetorical question for the day: By taking our kids out of less than ideal situations, are we training them to take the easy way out?

 

This is like asking if saving a child from drowning is training them to take the easy way out.

 

My second rhetorical question: Do our young children have social responsibilities?

Yes. But only to be good citizens wherever they are. If they're not in public (or private) school, they have no responsibility toward those places. This is just a silly argument. Does it mean that SAHM's are not socially responsible because they don't go out and spend their days in some workplace?

[Janet in WA]

I appreciate the replies so far!

 

I'll share one of the thoughts that came to mind:

 

Why isn't the decision to homeschool used to show kids how to overcome obstacles? Some adults could truly use the wisdom to think outside the box and get themselves out of certain situations (and into better ones) rather than muddling along and 'dealing with it.'

My college-aged sons have both shared that they feel they are better problem-solvers than their average peer at college. They feel they learned growing up to think independently and as an adult would, rather than in a herd of their peers.

[Melinda in VT]

This is like asking if saving a child from drowning is training them to take the easy way out.

 

 

The original post asked about "less than ideal situations." Certainly, if your child is drowning, you rescue them first and teach swimming skills later. But if your child is getting scraped up while learning to ride a bike, the best course of action may be to bandage her up, give her a pointer or two, and encourage her to keep trying.

 

(I'm speaking in general here, not directly about the situation that prompted the original post.)

[Ellie]

Recently an acquaintance of mine was considering taking her first grader out of public school and homeschooling next year. Her young daughter entered 1st grade ahead in terms of skills but now seems to be 'behind' and the student/teacher relationship has been a tough one. I think that all around this has been a tough year for her daughter.

 

Someone commented to her that it is our job as parents not to keep our kids happy but train them to overcome the situation...to be the best they can be in spite of their environment. It is our job as parents to 'stand beside them' and help them soldier through, I guess.

 

My first rhetorical question for the day: By taking our kids out of less than ideal situations, are we training them to take the easy way out?

 

The second comment was one I've heard often: our kids need to be in school to be good examples to the other children. (For Christians, this gets even more pointed: It is our children's responsibility to be witnesses to the other children in their school.)

 

My second rhetorical question: Do our young children have social responsibilities?

 

My heart aches for a little 7 year old girl who is now expected to overcome her environment in order to make her stronger. Bleh.

 

Oh please. That kind of tripe makes me crazy.

 

By taking our children out of less-than-ideal situations, we are showing them that they can depend on us to protect them while they are young. And for goodness' sake, a child who entered first grade "ahead" and finished first grade "behind" needs parental intervention. Sheesh.

 

Furthermore, the Bible does not tell us to send our children into the world to be witnesses. It tells *us*--adults--to be witnesses. To be sure, sometimes children are able to witness, but for the most part, they need to be home with their parents so they can be taught God's Word when they rise up and when they walk on the road and every day, all day. That cannot be done when the parents send them away to strangers to be taught; besides that, all the other immature children become their role models...that would be 20-30 foolish, probably-unsaved children, most of the day, every day.

[Janet in WA]

The original post asked about "less than ideal situations." Certainly, if your child is drowning, you rescue them first and teach swimming skills later. But if your child is getting scraped up while learning to ride a bike, the best course of action may be to bandage her up, give her a pointer or two, and encourage her to keep trying.

 

(I'm speaking in general here, not directly about the situation that prompted the original post.)

I agree with you. But we're talking about sending a child to school all day, without the parent there to patch anything up or give any pointers when things happen. Sending a child to school all day to develop social skills is like throwing them into the ocean to teach them to swim.

[Guest voangory]

I also removed my son from PS last year, and I wish I did it earlier. First of all, the "real world" for a child is the family life. Human children are born with a family because they need families. The "school" system is a human invention, not the natural place where Nature intended children to grow up in. For a child as young as 1st grade, what the parent decides is what goes. The parent always knows best (except of course if the parent is abusing the kid, which is not the case here I assume.) As a result, the "friend" s advice is only an advice and the parent should keep her motherly instinct unmoved. If the child/teacher relationship is hard on the kid, remove the kid from it.

 

My son stayed way too long at PS until he showed signs of medical depression. Truly, asking the child to soldier through it is like abandoning them. Orphans "soldier" through real life and we all know it is not good for them. We as a society have created orphanages and foster care so these orphan kids don't have to "soldier" through the real world. So why do we ask our very own children to do it?

 

Take her out of PS and hug her every morning.

[Guest voangory]

By the way, deciding to homeschool is NOT the easy way out. It is the way to fix the problem. It may even be the HARD way out. We all know that homeschooling is not always easy, but we do it because it is what is best for our kids.

[Kathy in MD]

.....I do believe taking our kids out of less than ideal situations teaches a kid to cop out and find the easy way out IF other avenues have not been pursued. Find a solution to the problem before ditching the entire situation......

 

You make a good point about trying to fix a bad situation before leaving. I pulled my ds out of a bad situation. But before I did it, I coached him to help him try to resolve the problem. I also had several discussions with the adult in charge trying to improve the situation. The only problem was that I didn't tell my ds about these adult discussions until a year later. You could see his attitude about the situation change with the telling. (Trust me, he was causing his share of the problems so a lot of the coaching he was receiving was about changing his behavior)

 

This is what to teach a child in dealing with a bad situation. Sometimes you do need to leave, but you try to fix the problem first. And though it's not always appropriate to have your child by your side when you try to do it, they need to know that you tried to improve things before walking out.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

'Learned Helplessness' Hmmm. That is an interesting point. I imagine that some kids can come out of that stronger (my husband, for one). I, OTOH, would have not learned to survive.

 

Kids will definitely learn a lesson, but it might not be the one we intended.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

Interesting, Janet. It is very encouraging to hear that. Especially as the mom of three little boys. :)

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I've got a big ole "yes, but..." brewing!

 

Yes, but...our children aren't soldiers! "Soldiering through" a situation that isn't meeting her developmental needs and causing her to fall behind isn't character-building, it's just nuts! She can learn to "soldier on through" in other situations (like, when a friendship gets tough, or when gymnastics skills don't come quickly, or when she doesn't feel like doing her math ;)!), but to keep her in an academic situation that isn't teaching her (isn't that what school is supposed to do rather than make her emotionally tough?) is just setting her up for failure. Make a school change for academics' sake, teach emotional wherewithal when you ask her to stick to that math assignment that is taught to her learning style/level AND you know she can do but just doesn't FEEL like doing!

 

To your first rhetorical question: Yes, but...our kiddos do have to learn to handle less than ideal situations, but that is a skill that is beyond the level of a first grader! And, isn't it a good idea to develop social skills with a dedicated parent on assist rather than by being thrust into a sink or swim academic environment that has already shown it isn't adequately teaching her? Sure, she'll have to get there someday, but let's teach her the skills she needs FIRST, not after she's already sank! And, why is school suddenly supposed to be sink or swim in first grade, anyway? I thought it was about laying a strong foundation in "swimming skills" so that a child would learn to "swim" on their own later? You don't throw a kid who cannot swim into a strong current, do you? Nope, you teach them to swim well FIRST (or, avoid a dangerous current altogether!) until she's able to handle it.

 

To your second rhetorical question: Yes, but...not until they've learned what type of example to be! In first grade (and, geez, for a lot longer!), she's still learning right and wrong, still picking up her parents' values and/or the values of her faith, and still learning how those values apply to real life. Kids aren't meant to stand alone yet, they are meant to be led down the right path by trusted adults until they are mature enough to choose their own path. It is way too early to ask that child to be an example to anyone...if you want someone to be an example to the public school kids, let it be the teacher!

 

That said, if you are talking about faith here, the stakes are even higher. One thing the public schools do really well is impart their own value system to the child. If secular humanism, "only the strong survive," teaching to the lowest common denominator and the belief that the young always know more than the old are the values a parent wants for their child, by all means enroll in the public school system! For the Christian, if you are hoping your child will influence others for Christ, wait until they are strong in their own values to have them do so. Don't put them in an environment that teaches them values of a very different sort and ask them to stand alone! That's for adults to do, not kids. Send Christian teachers and administrators into the system...don't ask a little child to change things. The system will change the child, not the other way around.

 

OK, rant over now...:rant:. My heart aches for that little girl as well. Home schooling may or may not be the answer for her, but geez...I hope that her parents can use some common sense and meet her needs instead of leaving her to sink or swim alone.

 

I agree that there are so many other ways to stretch and challenge our children, without subjecting them to that environment every day for hours on end.

 

Lots of good stuff to think about!

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

Tracey, I understand where you are coming from. I, too, want to raise independent strong kids and I try really hard to not hover, micromanage, or 'fix' everything immediately.

 

I see your point about trying to come up with other solutions. It seems like that might be a hard thing, though, considering the amount of time spent at school. A seven year old can't be expected to fix much about that situation herself, and the parents aren't in much of a position to change things when they aren't present at the school. Maybe homeschooling could be part of the solution rather than a cop-out.

[CLHCO]

I don't really have much time to think it through and it looks like you had some good responses. Either way, I'll do an off-the-cuff mini-rant, if that's at all allowed, and ask for grace since a careful review isn't possible right now. I get landed by this too often and I've personally seen more kids destroyed by the schools than toughened up when facing teasing or an academic mismatch so it's a rather annoying challenge when I get it. I want to ask if people have actually thought about what they're saying and applied it to the real world away from the nice theorizing.

 

:rant:

Okay, rant on: I was wondering... what did people do to teach their kids about this stuff for the first 6,000 years since the days of Jericho? Yes, some were scribes or apprentices, (older than six usually) and the Spartans sent boys off at seven (see how well it worked for them), otherwise, 90% of all children were in the home with the family. All of a sudden we need to stick them in schools all day every day for their healthy development? Do we have some type of solid evidence that this has been a benefit to the human experience? Have we saved the world? Or is it sinking?

 

The Bible has a lot to say about foolishness being bound up in the heart of a child and about what happens when you hang out with fools. Also about the company you choose to keep. A good apple is not likely to make the rest good. It'll get bad. The weeds will choke the good seed. Until she's a mighty tree that can stand on her own, she needs some tending. Sometimes you have a school with lots of good apples or few weeds. If this isn't the case and she's being choked out, she needs rescuing until she's stronger. Plant her where she can thrive. Jesus often used plants in his descriptions so I think it applies here.

 

I agree also that we train soldiers before sending them into battle. Even with the trained ones, a good commander knows not to send them into a situation they'll lose. You send them into things they have a chance of success or it's murder. You build them up with the success and training. It's the parent's job to do that training. If she doesn't stand by an adult to see how adversity is handled in the real world, how will she know how to do it?

 

Okay, rant off. Thanks for listening. :bigear:

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

At first I was thinking the same thing, that a ps parent could consider themselves the ones giving swimming lessons while we won't let our kids in the pool. :) But you're right, sending a 6/7 yo to school for 30+ hours a week in a rough situation without any parent present does sound more like throwing them at least in a lake :) to swim.

 

Maybe enrolling a struggling child in a class or sport with a good instructor/coach (obviously not their whole day or entire educational experience) would be a good place for those 'swimming lessons.' :)

[Janet in WA]

I've personally seen more kids destroyed by the schools than toughened up

Or else they do toughen up, but in a bad way (as was the case with our youngest son). I wish I'd known then what I know now. If I had it to do over, I'd homeschool all of our sons from day one. When I look at our three grown sons, I see that the longer each was homeschooled, the happier and more self-confident he is as an adult.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

I haven't particularly thought about the fact that the Bible doesn't call children to be witnesses. I have heard someone mention that Jesus didn't start his ministry until he was in his 30s, though.

[TraceyS/FL]

Well, i've had a friend say this to her DD - who was BEGGING to be HS'd (7th grade btw)

 

Mom said nope, you have to learn to deal with it.

 

It being, classes not on her level and daily witness of drug dealings on the campus in plain view of the school admin that did nothing. She felt it was like the OP said - to take her out was to give in to THEM, her DD just needed to deal with it. She knew that she was a "good kid". OK, but even good kids can get tempted.....

 

Overall, it made me sad for the girl.

 

It was inferred that i was making my kids weak and not able to deal with the "real world" too. Never mind they were getting a better education....

 

Anyway, after hearing it from her and knowing her, i look at things differently. OH, and she is the ONLY person around here to have that feeling. Everyone else tells us we are doing a great thing for our kids by homeschooling!

[TXMomof4]

I haven't particularly thought about the fact that the Bible doesn't call children to be witnesses. I have heard someone mention that Jesus didn't start his ministry until he was in his 30s, though.

 

I can't think of one instance in the Bible where a child is a witness to anyone. Jesus did use children as an example, but it was only about how our attitude should be. Not that those children were perfect children. My children will learn much more about what it means to be a Christian from me and our activities together than from me telling them they have to be nice to that mean kid because Jesus wants them too. I didn't learn what it meant to be Christian til I was grown, and I grew up going to church. I hope to be able to teach that to my children while they are young.

[keptwoman]

I appreciate the replies so far!

 

I'll share one of the thoughts that came to mind:

 

Why isn't the decision to homeschool used to show kids how to overcome obstacles? Some adults could truly use the wisdom to think outside the box and get themselves out of certain situations (and into better ones) rather than muddling along and 'dealing with it.'

This is pretty much how I feel about it too. If our husbands were in a toxic work situation they would look for a new job. Why on earth do we leave our poor babies at school in a toxic situation with no tools to fix it? It just doesnt make sense.

And thats why we pulled my 8yr old out of school when he was in First Grade.

 

We need to teach our children that when they are in a bad situation they should get out, not hang around. This isn't teaching them to be weak, it's teaching them to protect themselves. I hope that having pulled my boys out of toxic school situations they now know that if they are in a bad situation, it's OK to look for a healthy alternative.

 

Some kids may be made stronger by this, many will have their spirits and hearts crushed with a weight they are unable to bear alone. And no matter how much a parent tries to help a school situation, in the end you are not at school with them all day, and you really can't help that much. Well that was my experience anyway.

[Storm Bay]

 

My first rhetorical question for the day: By taking our kids out of less than ideal situations, are we training them to take the easy way out?

 

The second comment was one I've heard often: our kids need to be in school to be good examples to the other children. (For Christians, this gets even more pointed: It is our children's responsibility to be witnesses to the other children in their school.)

 

My second rhetorical question: Do our young children have social responsibilities?

 

My heart aches for a little 7 year old girl who is now expected to overcome her environment in order to make her stronger. Bleh.

 

 

1. Not necessarily. Sometimes we're teaching them the harder way out because now they're doubly different. It depends on how you look at it. But, if we're looking at this from a scriptural basis, it is first the parents' job to teach their children (Deut is a great place for this). Who else teaches them should be up to the parents, IMO.

 

2. Chapter and verse? Yes, good examples, but nothing is said about WHERE. They can be good examples when around other people anywhere. Or, maybe they'll be worse examples in ps than if they're out, as was the case with my dd! Sometimes sending kids to ps is setting them up for failure, and I don't think that's our job. Certainly it would have failed mine. This is why dh agreed to pull my eldest out of ps after gr. 2.

 

3. Not yet they don't. They're children, and, last I checked, children are listed on our tax forms as dependents. I don't think that that should strictly be relegated to financial areas (nor do I think most other people think that!!!)

[KAR120C]

I'm a pretty "suck it up" type of parent, so my attitudes tend to be a bit harsher than many moms here. With that being said...

<snip>

To love a child means sometimes forcing them to grow beyond their comfort zone, IMO.

I'm a "suck it up" type of parent too, provided DS hasn't moved beyond the point where he can learn from a situation. So I agree, but instead of a standard of whether you've tried fixing it first, my standard is one of whether he's so overwhelmed that he can't pay attention to the matter at hand. I don't think it's my job to make his life easy (I think sometimes it's my job to make things harder!), but if a situation is overwhelming then I don't hesitate to yank him out. By then he's not learning anything, just panicking.

 

So my ideal learning situation for DS is a "low simmer". Just bubbly enough that he needs to be in the moment, engaged, and dealing, but not boiling over. Challenging but not crushing. So I definitely agree with "beyond their comfort zone", in many different directions (difficult people, challenging schoolwork, high expectations of behavior and character), but I think the best situations to learn from are the ones that are only a little uncomfortable.