Would you share your favorite hive wisdom?

[rafiki]

.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

Most of what I copy/past are recipes. I've copied tons!

 

I also get books for my book list from the boards. Hey, we need a new book thread!

 

As for advice, I did copy something MFS replied to me, and I carry it around in my purse. :-)

[Scarlett]

As for advice, I did copy something MFS replied to me, and I carry it around in my purse. :-)

 

Welllll? Are you going to share?

[Trivium Academy]

Posted by KarenNC

In Reply to: I'm saving all this for when I feel the "jitters" again! posted by Jessica Trivium Academy

 

" 4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men." (Since you have stated that you are Christian and the critics are Christian--the rest of the chapter about not all parts of the body being identical are also applicable)

 

If there are different spiritual gifts and that's okay, I think having different homeschool curricula will be okay as well without being non-Christian. You *do not* have to have a Bible verse (from a specific translation no less) plastered at the bottom of each math worksheet just to "prove" to someone else you are "Christian" enough. If they think you do, then they need to examine their own issues.

 

Basically what those who were judging you were doing was expressing their own insecurities. "If everyone else doesn't do it exactly the way I do it, maybe there's something wrong with my way, so I had better cut them down to prove to myself my way is right" rather than have the peace to realize that there is *no* one-size-fits-all in *anything.* This is far from limited to Christianity or any of its subsets, btw. It has existed in every group of human beings I have ever encountered. Now there is a difference in cutting down and in genuine curiosity and openness to an actual conversation about reasoning. I am all for the second--that's the way we learn.

 

There will *always* be the next Hot New Thing . It doesn't mean that life will end if you don't get it, don't like it, etc or that your child will be ignorant and end up (as I use to tell my dad I would) "sweeping the floors at the mill for 2 cents an hour" *g*. Curriculum fads are like diet fads--if one thing worked for everyone, we'd all be skinny *g*.

 

Trust your own judgement and give yourself permission to try something and decide that it just isn't a great fit. My daughter is now in 1st grade. I spent the entire last year of her preschool haunting lists, hanging out at the homeschool bookstore and other bookstores, agonizing over the perfect curriculum for every subject. I made a few choices, abandoned a few that were causing more problems for us because of learning style than they were worth (though they worked well for my best friend), liked some, tweaked some I liked to fit our situation (rearranging order, etc). We managed to get fairly well through kindergarten and we're pretty much in a groove that works for us at the moment, but I'm sure things will still change. It's a learning curve for her and for you. Give yourself permission to spend kindergarten (at least) learning the ropes.

 

Take WTM as the cookbook since it resonates for you, but feel free to add your own spices or leave out the green peppers in the individual recipes if you prefer.

HORIZONS

 

All my kids (old enough anyway) have used Horizons. So far I have 4 that have gone all the way through the 6th grade book. It is a solid program. All of them have finished it ready to do simple algebra and geometry w/o any problems. My approach with all of them so far has been Horizons through the 6th grade book, MUS's combined alg/geo book (as pre-alg and pre-geo......it is no where near as thorough or complicated as other programs) Foerster's alg 1. After that I have switched around to different materials, but I think that the best route is Jacobs geo, Foerster alg 2, and then local university for pre-cal up.

 

I attribute their ease in math with their solid foundation in concepts taught by Horizons. Those basic math skills (multiplying and dividing fractions, etc) are what make the difference in higher math being just a simple next step vs an overwhelming blur of "what I am supposed to do now." I know nothing about RS, so I can't compare. I can only attest to the fact that my kids have no math gaps using Horizons. (and I can brag that oldest ds made one of only 4 A's given by his pre-cal 2 professor, and that is out of all the classes that that prof taught! :) )

 

I think this is from Momof7 when I asked about Horizons through 6th.

 

 

 

PAT CONROY'S LETTER ABOUT BANNING BOOKS

A Letter to the Editor of the Charleston Gazette:

 

I received an urgent e-mail from a high school student named Makenzie Hatfield of Charleston, West Virginia. She informed me of a group of parents who were attempting to suppress the teaching of two of my novels, The Prince of Tides and Beach Music. I heard rumors of this controversy as I was completing my latest filthy, vomit-inducing work. These controversies are so commonplace in my life that I no longer get involved. But my knowledge of mountain lore is strong enough to know the dangers of refusing to help a Hatfield of West Virginia. I also do not mess with McCoys.

 

I ve enjoyed a lifetime love affair with English teachers, just like the ones who are being abused in Charleston, West Virginia, today. My English teachers pushed me to be smart and inquisitive, and they taught me the great books of the world with passion and cunning and love. Like your English teachers, they didn t have any money, either, but they lived in the bright fires of their imaginations, and they taught because they were born to teach the prettiest language in the world. I have yet to meet an English teacher who assigned a book to damage a kid. They take an unutterable joy in opening up the known world to their students, but they are dishonored and unpraised because of the scandalous paychecks they receive. In my travels around this country, I have discovered that America hates its teachers, and I could not tell you why. Charleston, West Virginia, is showing clear signs of really hurting theirs, and I would be cautious about the word getting out.

 

In 1961, I entered the classroom of the great Eugene Norris, who set about in a thousand ways to change my life. It was the year I read Catcher in the Rye, under Gene s careful tutelage, and I adore that book to this very day. Later, a parent complained to the school board, and Gene Norris was called before the board to defend his teaching of this book. He asked me to write an essay describing the book s galvanic effect on me, which I did. But Gene s defense of Catcher in the Rye was so brilliant and convincing in its sheer power that it carried the day. I stayed close to Gene Norris till the day he died. I delivered a eulogy at his memorial service and was one of the executors of his will. Few in the world have ever loved English teachers as I have, and I loathe it when they are bullied by know-nothing parents or cowardly school boards.

 

About the novels your county just censored: The Prince of Tides and Beach Music are two of my darlings, which I would place before the altar of God and say, Lord, this is how I found the world you made. They contain scenes of violence, but I was the son of a Marine Corps fighter pilot who killed hundreds of men in Korea, beat my mother and his seven kids whenever he felt like it, and fought in three wars. My youngest brother, Tom, committed suicide by jumping off a fourteen-story building; my French teacher ended her life with a pistol; my aunt was brutally raped in Atlanta; eight of my classmates at The Citadel were killed in Vietnam; and my best friend was killed in a car wreck in Mississippi last summer. Violence has always been a part of my world. I write about it in my books and make no apology to anyone. In Beach Music, I wrote about the Holocaust and lack the literary powers to make that historical event anything other than grotesque.

 

People cuss in my books. People cuss in my real life. I cuss, especially at Citadel basketball games. I m perfectly sure that Steve Shamblin and other teachers prepared their students well for any encounters with violence or profanity in my books just as Gene Norris prepared me for the profane language in Catcher in the Rye forty-eight years ago.

 

The world of literature has everything in it, and it refuses to leave anything out. I have read like a man on fire my whole life because the genius of English teachers touched me with the dazzling beauty of language. Because of them I rode with Don Quixote and danced with Anna Karenina at a ball in St. Petersburg and lassoed a steer in Lonesome Dove and had nightmares about slavery in Beloved and walked the streets of Dublin in Ulysses and made up a hundred stories in the Arabian nights and saw my mother killed by a baseball in A Prayer for Owen Meany. I ve been in ten thousand cities and have introduced myself to a hundred thousand strangers in my exuberant reading career, all because I listened to my fabulous English teachers and soaked up every single thing those magnificent men and women had to give. I cherish and praise them and thank them for finding me when I was a boy and presenting me with the precious gift of the English language.

 

The school board of Charleston, West Virginia, has sullied that gift and shamed themselves and their community. You ve now entered the ranks of censors, book-banners, and teacher-haters, and the word will spread. Good teachers will avoid you as though you had cholera. But here is my favorite thing: Because you banned my books, every kid in that county will read them, every single one of them. Because book banners are invariably idiots, they don t know how the world works but writers and English teachers do.

 

I salute the English teachers of Charleston, West Virginia, and send my affection to their students. West Virginians, you ve just done what history warned you against you ve riled a Hatfield.

 

Sincerely,

 

Pat Conroy

I have a few more of Momof7, Janice in NJ, KarenCiavo, Abbeyej, and other further along in the journey tidbits but I can't find them right now. I also have book lists, resource lists, SOTW in geographical order, etc. saved.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

"Have you considered studying philosophy? In the struggles of others, philosophers have discerned the threads of meaning. These thinkers spent their lives wondering, Who am I? Why am I here? How did it all begin? Where will it end?

 

And not unsurprisingly, they all came up with different answers. (*wry grin*)

 

Far from being the dry stuff of overwrought and pedantic tomes, philosophy can be vibrant! Exciting! Ennerving! No,really! There is a reason college "bull sessions" (even if their content is sophomoric or worse) are so memorable: They exercise our minds while flapping our lips. They make us feel alive and united in a quest to ascribe meaning to life, the universe, and everything.

 

Studying philosophy gives one's life a context that seems to say (quixotically) thate we are both never alone and always alone.

 

See what I mean? Stimulating stuff.

 

Alain de Botton and Christopher Phillips are two neat contemporary introductions to the subject, but so is a weird little book called The Philosopher's Diet: How to Lose Weight and Change the World. (Richard Watson). If these speak to you, enter into the worlds from which the authors call you.

 

By the way, the study of philosophy, done right, is the opposite of navel-gazing. It should lead you out even as it causes you to see in with greater clarity.

 

I know, I know MFS is supposed to offer something else, something not like this entry. But the sun is streaming through the windows of my office, Amazon just delivered another box of books, and in 24 hours I will have met this month's deadline... it's hard to be anything but pragmatic on a day like this."

 

Good stuff, huh?

[rafiki]

Bean Dip! (for homeschoolers)

I’ve been passing around bean dip on the net for a few years. It was originally written for attachment parenting and alternative medical choice. I’ve revised it for homeschoolers who are facing varying levels of hostility towards their choices.

 

As an interesting related note, I find it telling that the spell check on my AOL email does not recognize “breastfeeding†or “homeschoolingâ€. That fact, in and of itself, is why bean dip is so needed.

 

Bean Dip:

 

I wanted to offer my “bean dip strategy†for homeschooling.

 

It’s something I’ve learned in my years of parenting using alternative ideas. The specifics may change, but the principal doesn’t. When setting boundaries, people (often moms) typically confuse setting the boundary with trying to convince the other person about how right they are in needing to set the boundary.

 

In setting boundaries, we don’t need to convince the other person we are right and they don’t have to agree about the boundary. We just need to be prepared to enforce the boundary, at any cost, using progressively more firm responses (if need be).

 

Here is an example:

 

I’ve found new moms often confuse boundaries and trying to convince someone of the *rightness* of their choices. They will send articles, links, books, cite statistics. All of these things send the message: this is up for debate and discussion, I may be swayed by you.

 

The best thing is to assert your boundary and *not* try to defend your choice. No books, articles, links, etc. If the person feels strongly enough *they* can initiate getting some information.

 

First, I learned early on that most of my choices were on a “need to know†basis. Most people don’t “need to know.â€

Question: “What about socialization?†Answer: Got that covered, thanks! Want some bean dip?

 

Question:â€They will need to function in the real world†Answer: “Yes! Thank you! Want some bean dip?â€

 

“What about college?†Answer: “Yes, our children will be going. Thanks! Want some bean

dip?â€

 

Now, with some people you will need to set *firm* boundaries. They will need to be backed up with action (like hanging up, leaving the room or even the event). If it’s a pattern of intrusion, for example. Practice kind but firm responses:

 

“I know you love us and the children. We are so glad. Our education choices have been researched and made. I will not discuss it againâ€

 

Don’t confuse setting boundaries with trying to convince someone of the rightness of your choices. New HSing moms often struggle with this. The boundary is that no one else has a right to tell you how to parent and create a hostile environment. You set boundaries by doing the above. New HSing parents often invite problems is by citing authors, studies and sites to “defend†themselves. Each time you do so, you create more time for discussion and rebuttal and send the message that your decisions are up for debate. Don’t defend your choices beyond generalities, and then only once or twice. “We are quite comfortable with our choices. Want some bean dip?â€

 

Finally, look them in the eye and say simply “I want us to have a good relationship. I want you to *enjoy* the children. I’ll parent the child - you enjoy them. Let’s not discuss this anymore. If you bring it up, I will leave the room.â€

 

One thing I want to add is to *carefully* chose who you vent/rant to about parenting issues. Homeschooling is like breastfeeding in a way. Normal struggles get blamed and dumped on homeschooling (like normal baby/adjustment issues get blamed on breastfeeding). People will attribute parenting issues to the fact of your homeschooling. The more aggressive/hostile ones will deliberately capitalize on the opportunity and will use your parenting challenge as a way to force their anti Homeschool agenda. So, be very selective who you talk to about the specifics on your life.

 

All content copyright Joanne Ketch Montgomery.

 

Posted by MFS on 12:58 Dec 15

 

In Reply to: Last question for now (thanks for your patience!): Any other advice for someone just starting on this adventure? (m) posted by Suzanne in Utah

 

1. While your family's days should most decidedly not be about scoring in the Xth percentile on state-required exams, winning a regional [insert kiddie contest here] prize, or earning a House & Garden medal for cleanest kitchen counters, it's important to remember that growing children with good hearts and active minds tends to be more easily accomplished when

 

(a) their environment has some rhythms and rituals and routines (rising and resting at regular intervals; anticipating repetitive activities (like feeding the fish, reading from the book of 365 stories for 365 days, making the bed, and taking turns with the pet chores)); and

 

(b) their leader (teacher) models the attributes he or she wants to see in her students.

 

Which is another way of saying, find a daily dance, a workable rhythm to set the day's tempo. Something catchy but neither too fast nor too slow.

 

(2) Focus on the moment you're in. Not on the best handwriting book, most compelling history text, or most brilliant math program. Not on message boards or blogging buddies. (In fact, if you can, try an experiment: Limit yourself to no more than, say, one virtual visit daily.) Not on all the stuff you could be doing. No. On the moment you're in. On what you should be doing. Teaching. Learning. Coaching. Leading. Modeling. So, for example: Your children's minds are wandering? They've got holes-in-the-brain, you say? Where is your mind? Are you focused on them? Yeah, I didn't think so. Now that you are, discover why aren't they focused. Physical needs met? Something big coming up? Time for a walk?

 

You get the idea.

 

(3) Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of one thousand, a bad day, a spring-feverish morning, a calamitous pre-Christmas afternoon begins with you. That's not an accusation. It's an attitude. If you know it all begins with you, you know you have the power to, if not control the situation, then certainly control your response to it (which is control of the most excellent kind).

 

(4) Don't neglect yourself.

 

Eat right.

Exercise.

Take vitamins.

Sleep well and for as long as your body needs.

Develop some rituals and routines that enable you to present a fresh face and a clean smile to your children and your students each morning.

Read. Think. Learn.

Take some time for yourself when and where you can get it.

Celebrate your achievements in meaningful ways.

Reflect.

Maintain real relationships. Cut back on the virtual.

Visit a museum.

Roll down a grassy hill. Can you still do a cartwheel?

Leave notes in your partner's jacket pocket.

Revisit a favorite hobby or book or movie from your youth.

Dance.

 

Remember: Before you are a partner, a parent, a teacher, an [insert occupation here], you are simply you. Ensure that you like who you are.

 

And take care of yourself.

[rafiki]

Posted by MFS on 12:40 May 9

 

In Reply to: playing to the Lowest common denominator intellectually posted by SandraDumas/Prov31Sandra

 

Is it a refusal to use their intellects?

 

Really?

 

Or is it just another use of their intellects, perhaps one we might consider unworthy?

 

And is it snobbery replete with protestations to the contrary to call it the interests and passions at odds with our own "a refusal to use their intellects"?

 

(And, yes, I'm being intentionally provocative but not with unkindness; simply with a desire to explore the ideas the OP presented.)

 

In a situation in which the folks with whom I am socializing are not at all interested in, say, dissecting the relationship between Hamlet and his mother (hem, hem) or the philosophical underpinnings of No Exit, I seek common ground. I can quote Elf or Fargo or Armageddon or Monty Python with as much fluency as Shakespeare or Sartre. What harm is there in engaging acquaintances in the terms and topics that most interest them?

 

Does it bother me that so many folks I meet are altogether bored (or unfamiliar) with the books, films, and music that make my own soul whistle and stomp in approval? Well, sure, but I try not to spend too much time bemoaning the future (as in, "Who in god's name are my children going to date, let alone marry?"). It doesn't get me anywhere, anyway. And it is, as it turns out, incredibly "snobby."

 

*grin*

 

Besides, we all know my daughters are betrothed to Crissy's sons. (Sorry, Mindy. (*wink*))

 

Anecdote:

I recently spent four days with relatives who have read five books between them in the last year -- all five of which were akin to the latest James Patterson. In their home, are six televisions, two of which are among the largest I've ever seen. In their home, are -- I counted -- twelve books, not counting the carton of old texts in the garage: "Don't forget to put them out in this week's trash!"

 

Yikes!

 

Now.

 

The three of them know more about running a family business, repairing all makes and models of cars, and collecting gems than most of us know about classical education (neo, traditional, faux, or otherwise).

 

No, really.

 

As it turns out, they're a go-to resource for a widespread area, something I learned not because they told me but because I listened when we met others while out and about.

 

How cool, I thought.

 

What an uncomfortable business the visit would have been had I *struggled to accept* that my companions knew little of the classics, of world history, of the current political climate. Frankly, it's presumptuous to think the discomfort would have been one-sided. What were they thinking when they opened their home to the family "brainiacs"? You should have seen their faces when I unpacked two pairs of shoes...

 

and thirteen books.

 

See where I'm going?

 

____________________

 

If you had caught me at another time, I could easily have stepped into a rant about the perils of "playing to the middle," but you caught me shortly after a vacation during which I practiced being human instead of being smart or "intellectual." It began with setting aside my expectations of what "good conversation" sounded like and opening my ears and heart to what my relatives were saying to me and around me. I learned so much! Yes, about cars! And about jewels! And about gardening!

 

And when the opportunity presented itself, I showed them photos of the birds they were hearing at night but had not seen. And when the opportunity presented itself, I shared some of what I had read about this or that. Giving them my ears and heart opened their ears and hearts.

 

And maybe that's what we're supposed to do when we meet folks with interests unlike ours.

 

Give them our ears.

 

A little of our time.

 

A bit of our hearts, our selves.

 

And see where being human gets us.

 

Just some thoughts on the Second Tuesday in Vacation Time.

 

Posted by Colleen on 15:42 Nov 2

 

In Reply to: How do you raise good teens? posted by Sarah CB

 

You're obviously quite worked up over the comments on that board, so why not just let it go? The reality is that there will always be people whose values don't mesh well with yours. And on the other hand, there are likely many who share your perspective but are not sitting around talking about it on message boards. ;-D

 

As to your question, I think it's possible to have good relationships and open communication with teens, without assuming in the process that they'll be the partying types we were at their age. One book you might read, if you've not already, is "Age Of Opportunity". Kate CA recently recommended this to me. Also, here's some good advice MFS shared re parenting teens:

 

1. Encourage their pursuit of a sport that challenges and exhausts them (e.g., cross country running, swimming, rigorous martial arts training).

 

2. Connect them with meaningful work and support their efforts.

 

3. At the very least, treat them with the same respect and regard that you would tender an office associate (i.e., you would *never* shout at or disparage or lecture someone in an office scenario -- even a subordinate; approach the training of the young people in your life with -- at minimum -- the level of respect you would offer fellow employees).

 

4. Give them all of the food and rest they need when they need it.

 

5. Well before their teen years, subtly guide them toward an interest or two that you share (e.g., birding or carpentry or flying or whatever). This way, no matter what, you'll have something in common.

 

6. Even if they grow to be your friends, never forget that you are their parents.

 

* * * * *

 

And here are some words of wisdom Pam (of the flaming sword moderation, LOL) shared with her teenaged son:

 

1) You can get a girl pregnant. The FIRST time. The second time. The time that you thought you pulled out in time.

 

2) Unless you can support a child financially and emotionally FOR THE NEXT 18 YEARS, you have no business having sex, morals and marriage aside -- though the latter are no minor thing.

 

3) And while the latter are no minor thing, your conscience is located in the head between your shoulders, not in the other one. That one has no conscience, and so you'd better make sure the first one is in charge.

 

4) You are perfectly capable of falling in love for the rest of your life *right now.* Today. Even at 17. So you'd better be careful who you are going around with. Falling in love is rarely logical, so exercise your good logic before there's a chance you'll be hooked. If you don't want to marry a smoker, for example, or a woman who does not want children when you most certainly do, well, don't date a woman like that.

 

5) Continuing that, you are perfectly capable of hurting someone very deeply by playing around and toying with emotions. So don't do that.

 

6) Dating often leads to marriage and a new family. If you don't want that, then be very wise about when or even IF you date right now.

 

7) Don't ever sacrifice your integrity, your future education, or your good name on the altar of the immediate.

 

8) Teenage girls are as much a soup of raging hormones as you are. Don't ever underestimate how strongly even a "good" girl can come onto you and take you down a street you hadn't planned to walk. And if you get her pregnant, she's all yours for the next 18 years -- even if you only see her when she's dropping off the kid for visitation or you're sending her a check every single month. (Did I mention every single month FOR THE NEXT 18 YEARS?)

 

9) If you don't yet have a credit score or a full-time job, don't be pretending to be an adult by having sex. A car, a part-time job, free room and board at your parents' house, and a penis don't make you a grown man.

 

10) The phrase "just say no" only works in commercials. Don't think 16 years of Sunday school and home training is going to protect you and give you the ability to say no when you're in a passionate situation and one of the most powerful biological imperatives has you in its grip. Sixteen years of Sunday school was supposed to instill enough character to keep you well CLEAR of the passionate situation in the first place. Once you're there, all bets are off. (And why do you think they call it a "biological imperative"? Because you think you HAVE to do it, that's why!)

 

* * * * *

 

Not sure if any of that is helpful to you, but there ya go. : )

 

Cheers,

Colleen

 

 

The other post I saved isn't coming up, but here are some parts of it that struck me.

 

"Ask, yourself, how much do I complain? Am I building up my home or tearing it down? Do I complain about wanting more out of life, but do nothing about it? Do I get annoyed over the things I have to do like cleaning the house, instead of being thankful I have a house to clean?

 

Joy in your life is a choice. When I'm most unhappy or upset, it's when I'm looking for someone else to make me happy. It's when I'm finding all the faults with others and blaming them, that I don't find joy.

 

I don't want to be 50 and look back on this time and say why? Why didn't I enjoy my family more?

 

It's a world full of material things and it's easy to sit in our homes and look around and see all the things that others have and feel like it's not fair. But I tell you, that many of those peopel with all those things, are just as unhappy. If you can't find the joy, by serving the people you love, by making the most out of the ordinary simply things in life, you'll never ifnd joy, no matter what the money situation, regardles sof the perfect body, perfect clothes, perfect whatever.

 

Joy comes from within and it truly is a choice. No one can do it for us."

[KidsHappen]

Bean Dip! (for homeschoolers)

I’ve been passing around bean dip on the net for a few years. It was originally written for attachment parenting and alternative medical choice. I’ve revised it for homeschoolers who are facing varying levels of hostility towards their choices.

 

As an interesting related note, I find it telling that the spell check on my AOL email does not recognize “breastfeeding†or “homeschoolingâ€. That fact, in and of itself, is why bean dip is so needed.

 

Bean Dip:

 

I wanted to offer my “bean dip strategy†for homeschooling.

 

It’s something I’ve learned in my years of parenting using alternative ideas. The specifics may change, but the principal doesn’t. When setting boundaries, people (often moms) typically confuse setting the boundary with trying to convince the other person about how right they are in needing to set the boundary.

 

In setting boundaries, we don’t need to convince the other person we are right and they don’t have to agree about the boundary. We just need to be prepared to enforce the boundary, at any cost, using progressively more firm responses (if need be).

 

Here is an example:

 

I’ve found new moms often confuse boundaries and trying to convince someone of the *rightness* of their choices. They will send articles, links, books, cite statistics. All of these things send the message: this is up for debate and discussion, I may be swayed by you.

 

The best thing is to assert your boundary and *not* try to defend your choice. No books, articles, links, etc. If the person feels strongly enough *they* can initiate getting some information.

 

First, I learned early on that most of my choices were on a “need to know†basis. Most people don’t “need to know.â€

Question: “What about socialization?†Answer: Got that covered, thanks! Want some bean dip?

 

Question:â€They will need to function in the real world†Answer: “Yes! Thank you! Want some bean dip?â€

 

“What about college?†Answer: “Yes, our children will be going. Thanks! Want some bean

dip?â€

 

Now, with some people you will need to set *firm* boundaries. They will need to be backed up with action (like hanging up, leaving the room or even the event). If it’s a pattern of intrusion, for example. Practice kind but firm responses:

 

“I know you love us and the children. We are so glad. Our education choices have been researched and made. I will not discuss it againâ€

 

Don’t confuse setting boundaries with trying to convince someone of the rightness of your choices. New HSing moms often struggle with this. The boundary is that no one else has a right to tell you how to parent and create a hostile environment. You set boundaries by doing the above. New HSing parents often invite problems is by citing authors, studies and sites to “defend†themselves. Each time you do so, you create more time for discussion and rebuttal and send the message that your decisions are up for debate. Don’t defend your choices beyond generalities, and then only once or twice. “We are quite comfortable with our choices. Want some bean dip?â€

 

Finally, look them in the eye and say simply “I want us to have a good relationship. I want you to *enjoy* the children. I’ll parent the child - you enjoy them. Let’s not discuss this anymore. If you bring it up, I will leave the room.â€

 

One thing I want to add is to *carefully* chose who you vent/rant to about parenting issues. Homeschooling is like breastfeeding in a way. Normal struggles get blamed and dumped on homeschooling (like normal baby/adjustment issues get blamed on breastfeeding). People will attribute parenting issues to the fact of your homeschooling. The more aggressive/hostile ones will deliberately capitalize on the opportunity and will use your parenting challenge as a way to force their anti Homeschool agenda. So, be very selective who you talk to about the specifics on your life.

 

All content copyright Joanne Ketch Montgomery.

 

 

 

I always had a vague notion of this concept but it has been really helpful to hear it fully articulated so well.

 

The other important things that I have learned here is: You are not doing it wrong. Your children are learning and they will turn out ok. You are not alone. And finally, you can find common ground even with people who are radically different from you.

[Robin in Tx]

Gosh, there's been so many that I couldn't begin to list them... but my latest favorite is from Janice in NJ, when she said (talking about delving deep into history and literature with her kids):

 

"...actually doing this stuff is a lot more fun than talking about doing this stuff."

 

My favorite comments on these boards are usually the ones that challenge me to quit hanging out here and go do something real. O, the irony :).

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

This is my favorite of all PariSarah's offerings, and I believe it's where the term "Pocket Sarah" came to be:

 

 

This in response to Virginia Dawn who posted:

That [provoking one another on to love and good works] does sound nice, but how does that translate into practical everyday actions and attitudes? How far do we stretch the boundaries in the name of Love before there are no boundaries? Where is the principle that applies to a case like this?

 

I confess myself to be more and more confused the more I think about this issue. "

 

Sarah:

 

"Oh, it's probably pretty messy. I'm an order person myself. At least morally. I would have made a good Sadducee. (Not a Pharisee. They were the liberals of their day. Populists. Sadducees were the real conservatives.) I'm much happier pronouncing on right vs. wrong than either doing it myself or living/suffering with someone who's trying to do it when the odds (biology or family or past experiences) are against her. I have a very comfortable life--it's a lot easier for me to follow the rules than it is for some others.

 

But the more I think about what discipleship looks like, the messier it gets. In a good way--like the way sex and childbirth and gardening are messy. Intimacy and growth and passion and righteousness are just messier than principles.

 

I don't think, though, that it's a matter of love stretching boundaries. I don't think love does that. I think love . . . I don't know . . . recognizes real boundaries from apparent ones. It can tell the difference between a kid that needs to finish his carrots and a kid that needs to be checked for allergies. Between a kid that's whining and a kid that's hurting. Only on a much grander scale.

 

I wish I were as good at it as I make it sound. I'm pretty comfortable with principles and boundaries. Love is, usually, much too scary, much too intimate for me.

 

Of course, in the interests of full disclosure, I should admit that there as some things that steam my broccoli so bad I don't *care* what religion so-and-so is, I'm going to *tell* him *which* sin of his Christ died for, and *which* nail had *his* name written on it, and *which* sin was gonna be the *first* one gets brought up when he finally has his come to Jesus time, and . . . so on. Ask me how I feel about pedophiles. And ads offering $25K for a donated egg from a blond- or red-haired, blue-eyed college student. And Carrie's stbxdh. And how drunken frat boys treat women. This particular issue doesn't happen to steam my broccoli, but boy do certain others.

 

I'm much better as Pocket Sarah than Real Sarah. Trust me.

 

And good lord--if I expended this much mental and rhetorical energy on my papers, they would be done by now. Forgive me for inflicting it on you?"

[Plaid Dad]

One thing that comes back to me again and again are Dy's wise words: They're little. They do that.

[ELaurie]

written by a wise mom who was reflecting about her experiences with WTM. She was expressing her appreciation for JW and SWB, and said things like , "How did JW know that I would need to learn about history in the grammar years, so that when my dc reached the Logic stage I would be better prepared to teach them what they would need to know?"

 

She was reflecting upon her own learning experiences as an HSing mom, which included filling in the gaps in her own learning, and pursuing the classical education she had never had. As a new HSer, I found her post post inspiring and encouraging.

[Sweetpeach]

Grace-Based Parenting -- revolutionized our family life, almost two years ago now.

[Maura in NY]

I've read so much great advice. And thanks to this distillation thread, I can clip some more to add to my favorites!

 

But the one piece of advice I use again and again? If you forget to take the clothes out of the washer, re-wash with 1 c. of white vinegar.:tongue_smilie:

 

Keep it coming!

 

Maura

[rafiki]

.

[Liz CA]

This is my favorite of all PariSarah's offerings, and I believe it's where the term "Pocket Sarah" came to be:

 

 

This in response to Virginia Dawn who posted:

 

Sarah:

 

"Oh, it's probably pretty messy. I'm an order person myself. At least morally. I would have made a good Sadducee. (Not a Pharisee. They were the liberals of their day. Populists. Sadducees were the real conservatives.) I'm much happier pronouncing on right vs. wrong than either doing it myself or living/suffering with someone who's trying to do it when the odds (biology or family or past experiences) are against her. I have a very comfortable life--it's a lot easier for me to follow the rules than it is for some others.

 

But the more I think about what discipleship looks like, the messier it gets. In a good way--like the way sex and childbirth and gardening are messy. Intimacy and growth and passion and righteousness are just messier than principles.

 

I don't think, though, that it's a matter of love stretching boundaries. I don't think love does that. I think love . . . I don't know . . . recognizes real boundaries from apparent ones. It can tell the difference between a kid that needs to finish his carrots and a kid that needs to be checked for allergies. Between a kid that's whining and a kid that's hurting. Only on a much grander scale.

 

I wish I were as good at it as I make it sound. I'm pretty comfortable with principles and boundaries. Love is, usually, much too scary, much too intimate for me.

 

Of course, in the interests of full disclosure, I should admit that there as some things that steam my broccoli so bad I don't *care* what religion so-and-so is, I'm going to *tell* him *which* sin of his Christ died for, and *which* nail had *his* name written on it, and *which* sin was gonna be the *first* one gets brought up when he finally has his come to Jesus time, and . . . so on. Ask me how I feel about pedophiles. And ads offering $25K for a donated egg from a blond- or red-haired, blue-eyed college student. And Carrie's stbxdh. And how drunken frat boys treat women. This particular issue doesn't happen to steam my broccoli, but boy do certain others.

 

I'm much better as Pocket Sarah than Real Sarah. Trust me.

 

And good lord--if I expended this much mental and rhetorical energy on my papers, they would be done by now. Forgive me for inflicting it on you?"

 

nt

[Baseballmom]

My favorite:

 

Hi~

Thank you for your kind words.

I'll re-post the original & highlight the main goals in red. I listed some examples of how we are chipping away at daily/weekly/monthly things that we feel will bring us to the main goals. I'll expand some in blue italics and if I'm not real clear let me know. (I can tend to lose my train of thought too quickly around here!...) HTH

In His Mercies We Rest,

~deborah

 

Well Amy, your heart sooo shows your love for your children & God with your desire to help them grow spiritually! I commend you seeking the best for your children! It is hard to figure how to get them to actually do all this, huh? I struggle with the same things. I guess I often forget to individually and specifically pray for each of my children. I many times take for granted that we homeschool and it's easy to just think since they are protected that they'll be saved. That they'll just catch salvation somehow.

So the number one goal for my children:

That my Merciful Saviour would draw them to Himself and make them truly His own. (this means I have to remember to pray faithfully for each of them, individually..I fail at that this so much ) We always hear that "God has no Grandchildren" and I, to often, forget that. Homeschool kids aren't saved just because Mom and Dad are, or because they may be more protected or because they know the "right answers" or because they know how to behave well at church or get compliments in a restaurant. They are not saved because they don't watch certain shows or know certain music or abstain from certain foods. Many religions around the world can produce the same. We have to remember that the Father draws them and that it is ONLY Jesus Christ's work and not ours that will keep them from the wrath of God. We need to let them see the reason they need a Saviour. When children are talked to like they already know everything about God, I fear it creates a false self assurance that will crumble when the winds blow. It scares me terribly to see homeschool kids that know how to "check the box" Christ came to make the dead; alive not the bad; good. I don't just want "good" kids. I want alive kids. We encourage them to "examine themselves to see if they are in the faith" (this would mean going through questions (maybe a chart like ones from Instruction in Righteousness) to see if they are seeing fruit in their own lives.)

2nd goal: To prepare them to be Godly Men. Searching the Word to find what is required of a Godly man and teaching those things to them right now is a daily job. Some of our "heroes" are John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, Ravi Zacharias, John Piper & Francis Chan. We listen to them often with our boys and point out things about their character that lines up with the word. ( this would be anytime they listen or hear one of these guys..we just ask them.."how are they being bold?" "Do you see why grammar (history etc) is important for him to have known the proper context of that verse?" "See how logic is so important in apologetics?" ect) How they defend the faith takes boldness. How they are knowledgeable takes much study in the word, grammar, history, science & logic. How they persevere through the mocking of a relative & tolerant world takes faithfulness and humility. To say unabashedly that Jesus is the ONLY way takes courage and strength in this culture.

Third goal: For them to be Godly Husbands. Teaching boys tenderness and how to prepare a meal for their wife (yes, we teach our boys to cook )when she's sick or after she's had a baby is an asset to being her protector. We teach them to pray for their wives now. To put away their earned money (anytime they get money the first part is tithed, they may hold back a little but the rest goes to the bank )into a bank account, to buy their wife her ring and hopefully save enough for a down payment on a house. (they also pray for their future children, that they would be the father that they need to be for the children that God should bring them if He wills)

Fourth Goal: We want them to excel in academics. (We try to choose curricula that will help us; help them. Ones that we feel will help train them in Godly Character, Christian Worldview and Logical & Analytical thinking. Ones that our doable for a lg. family, that allow them to take responsibility for their own work..to be independent and set goals for the week; they each have a planner and plan out their own school week..even Kindergarten. There are consequences that follow laziness, lying, cheating & prograstenating) We don't want them to be lazy and not being able to provide for our grandchildren. We want them to make enough money to provide a home for their family in a safe place and to make enough that it would not tempt our daughter-in-laws to work. To make enough that they would be able to chose the curriculum they feel is best to bring up their children in a Godly way. (this is pointed out to them in some good old fashioned reading..something as simple as the McGuffey readers..the real eye-openers are unfortunately the real life cases we come across.)

Fifth Goal: To teach them discernment. I don't want to protect them from everything, but for them to be able to recognize evil and have the self-control to turn their own head, walk on, (for instance, I don't keep them from the mall, I see if they turn their heads another direction when we walk by certain stores) say no and have compassion for the lost and not be critical towards them. To realize the lost are caught up in the lies of this world and that they need to try and rescue them not join them. To understand the road is narrow and to recognize truth. Truth is not relative. Man does not seek after God but He seeks us. To not be deceived when churches water things down by bringing these kinds of things in and change doctrine because they are embarrassed that God has required certain things of man. (again, we don't hide this, we let them listen to a questionable sermon and see if they can point out "new age" influences or "feminism" and things that "tickle men's ears" We ask them if this is expository preaching or does it seem the preacher has his own opinion") They can only know this for themselves as the pour over the scriptures for themselves and the Holy Spirit will take care of the rest. They must learn to be humble about their mistakes, forgiving towards other's mistakes and cut off anything that stands between them and their gracious Lord. One of the greatest things we can do is allow them time away from their academics to be alone with God. Just them and their Bibles. Then to ask them or talk to them about what they are learning. (They have their own quiet time daily w/ a good study bible John MacArthur or the Reformation Bible. (Bible Stories to Color & Right Choices for the Preschool-K's) They also are taught how to use study tools at a young age. We then talk to them about what they are learning and especially talk about the things that they may not like in scripture. And that leads to the question "Why, wouldn't you like that? Either God is wrong or you are wrong kind of stuff"..lots of talking. Lot's and Lot's from Bible to History to Literature.

Amy, I will pray for you that the Holy Spirit would bring specific things to you and your husband in raising your kids.

Remember that these are harder years as they are still children. If they are saved, they are immature still and it will be years till we may see fruit. Show them how God is faithful, show them how to pray, show them how to worship and teach them why He is worthy to receive our praise. Teach about and to pray for persecuted Christians around the world. I find this deflates a lot of self-centeredness in my guys. Teach them to pray for their future spouses to pray for their sibling/s and for peoples needs around you. This is so important because God does hear the prayers of His people and LOVES to answer prayers that line up with His will! This builds so much faith in children because they can start looking back and seeing all the times God hears them! And teach them to serve. To put everyone else's needs above their own. When they pour drinks for their siblings at a meal teach them to pour their own last. To let others go first. To draw pictures or write a note to a shut in at church or to save money to go buy surprise groceries for a family friend. I believe that once they start learning things in the Word we need to provide places and ways for them to apply so they can see for themselves the blessing it brings One thing we always say to our's.."You, Be the only Noah!" They are still to obey when know one else does. I don't want them to obey us first but to obey God first. In loving God they will obey Him and in this they will honor their father and mother.

May He Bless you and your family richly as you walk the narrow way!

In Christ's Love We Stand!

~deborah

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