Torn between WP AS 1 & SL Core 3...

[Cherryanne]

I thought I had decided on Winter Promise American Story 1 for next school year but after reading so many negative reviews on here I'm second-guessing my decision. Has anyone used AS 1 and actually enjoyed it? I didn't plan on ordering anything but the WP exclusive items directly from WP because of all the shipping issues people have had. I like the idea of WP because of the hands-on activities. I think my son would really enjoy this aspect. History pockets were a big bust here and I don't know how much he would get out of the 3D maps but I was planning on ordering the Early American Trades & Crafts Kit to balance it out. Is this kit really worth the money? It makes me a little uneasy that the website doesn't list anything that's included in the kit.

 

So, since I'm starting to have doubts about WP I've been looking at Sonlight's Core 3 package again. It bothers me that's there are no hands on projects with their curriculum but I love their book choices. It also looks like geography is covered which is something WP lacks. Are SL's geography lessons pretty complete? It would be great if we didn't have to order an additional geography program since we would be spending so much on the Core.

 

So, I guess my main question is, what would you choose? I really want to use something that comes with most everything we need for the year so I'm hoping to make one of these programs work. We haven't had great luck relying on the library and I'm just plain tired of having to scrounge everything up myself.

 

Thanks so much for any help! I appreciate it. :)

[Blossom'sGirl]

I doubt I will be much help, but I am kinda in a similar situation. I actually own the IGs for SL Core 3 (2000 version - bought used) and AS1 (2006 version). When my oldest was in third grade, four years ago, I decided on doing AS1 and we enjoyed it. The 3-d maps were a novelty at first but by the end they were hit and miss. My oldest is also NOT a crafty kid but did and enjoyed creating many of the dioramas. I did use most of the SL readers for his reading list because I do not like either WP's or SL's LA.

 

Now I am to round 2 with my 3rd ds entering into 3rd grade. I am seriously considering SL 3 this time because I want the meatier material such as the Landmark books for my 6th grader who was only 6yo our 1st time around in American History. My hesitation is that my 3rd grader LOVES crafts so I am going to have to add them anyway. I am also torn because I want a newer SL Core 3 IG. Mine does not have the questions and maps. If you did go with SL, I think it would be fairly easy to add in the map/ craft books as desired to compliment your studies.

 

I know AS 1 has changed a bit since I bought it. We used the DK Encyclopedia of American History as a spine which I prefer over the WP exclusives because they end up lost in the curriculum. In fact my oldest is reading from the DK book right now because I had it pulled out to look at for next year. I have heard that many younger families do not like the Landmark books from SL. I checked one out of the library just to see if it is for us this year. I will not expect my younger two to really have to listen to it all, but I think it will be good for my 6th grader.

 

I have never bought a complete curriculum from either company, bit I think Sonlight has the better reputation and a guarantee. You can buy the craft books WP sells from Amazon. I don't know anything about the trades and crafts kit.

 

As I said - Not much help for your decision. There is a lot of curriculum out there for American History.

[siloam]

We really enjoyed it, but there was no way that Core 3 would have worked for anyone other than my oldest. Landmark would have gone over the middle two's heads, and the middle two are also extremely sensitive.

 

My kids liked all the paper crafts, but they did get tired of them after a while and we just didn't do them any more. The kids really enjoyed the visual texts and silly books after the cerebral texts in Core 2 (some of the RA's just didn't connect at all). Neither did the jumping around bother me at all. The biggest modification I made was to read one book at a time, but read everything for the whole week. I also added some HOAC lapbooks for my oldest, was then then half way through 3rd grade.

 

Really they are two different animals. IMO unless you have a history loving audio learner, Core 3 works better at the 4th-7th grade range. AS 1 really is geared more towards 1st-3rd.

 

The other big issue, is that it was frustrating to me. I was used to being challenged and getting into SL books, and WP books were good, but not that interesting to me. I did have to set aside my thing and allow my kids to learn where they were. I would have preferred to stick with SL. In fact I use TOG now because I get the best of both worlds. Light for the kids, meat for me.

 

Heather

[SnowWhite]

Here's a description of the Trades and Crafts kit from last year's catalog:

 

Projects include a handcrafted Native American teepee, a Stick Dice game, a Wool Felt Hooked Rug square, a wooden Conestoga wagon (lamp), and a dozen more.

 

We bought it and enjoyed it somewhat, but I felt it was geared toward older than second grade (we did AS1 for grade 2), which would be a GOOD thing for your older student. Is this for third grade, second semester, or fourth grade? WP actually recommends American Crossings for grades 4-6 (and it includes more geography and presidents from what I have heard). Many people have used AS1 with older kids though. They just do less read-aloud and have the kids read part of it.

 

Yes, we really enjoyed AS1. I won't be using just that with my second ds though. I am switching to TruthQuest for our second Amer history go-round. I plan to use many WP materials though. My reason for switching is so that I can have a more tailor-made program with multiple levels. (Plus I already have AS1, so I can pick and choose from those resources). I would highly recommend using WP's leveled readers on the Early American topics. Those really round out the learning.

 

The 3D maps are actually more of a geography resource than a hands on activity. I like the info this book presents. We didn't color them as my kids are averse to coloring.

[Cherryanne]

I think it would be fairly easy to add in the map/ craft books as desired to compliment your studies.

 

Thank you! This is very helpful! I don't know why it didn't occur to me that I could do this. :tongue_smilie:

 

We really enjoyed it' date=' but there was no way that Core 3 would have worked for anyone other than my oldest. Landmark would have gone over the middle two's heads, and the middle two are also extremely sensitive.

 

Really they are two different animals. IMO unless you have a history loving audio learner, Core 3 works better at the 4th-7th grade range. AS 1 really is geared more towards 1st-3rd.

[/color']

 

This is my dilemma too. My son will be in 4th grade but he'll be a young 4th grader (Aug. b-day) and he's definitely sensitive. I do worry some of the SL readers will be too much for him.

 

Here's a description of the Trades and Crafts kit from last year's catalog:

 

Projects include a handcrafted Native American teepee, a Stick Dice game, a Wool Felt Hooked Rug square, a wooden Conestoga wagon (lamp), and a dozen more.

 

We bought it and enjoyed it somewhat, but I felt it was geared toward older than second grade (we did AS1 for grade 2), which would be a GOOD thing for your older student. Is this for third grade, second semester, or fourth grade? WP actually recommends American Crossings for grades 4-6 (and it includes more geography and presidents from what I have heard). Many people have used AS1 with older kids though. They just do less read-aloud and have the kids read part of it.

 

I would highly recommend using WP's leveled readers on the Early American topics. Those really round out the learning.

 

The 3D maps are actually more of a geography resource than a hands on activity. I like the info this book presents. We didn't color them as my kids are averse to coloring.

 

Thank you so much!

[Irishmommy]

I went with SL 3+4 for my older and MWF Adentures for my little over WP because I just couldn't deal with the let down of WP again. I have such high hopes for their programs, but they always fall short for me. I always want more than I get from them. I would rather a better organized program (guide book) that I can add to or take away from over a disorganized mess any day (and that has been my experience with two programs from WP). I've used SL K this year and done lots of adding/subtracting with little problem. I already have SL 3+4 and MWF Adventures for next year and both look fantastically organized.

 

Also, I have found NUMEROUS hands on projects for American History on the Scholastic $1 download sale. I think they will be perfect to add into SL next year for my older son. Just my 2 cents!

[savmom]

Have you looked at the free schedule from Guest Hollow? It is AWESOME! I could spend hours telling you about how great it is but seriously you have to look at it for yourself.

 

Jenn has been so gracious in offering, in my opinion, a much better alternative for American History than WP or SL (her other curriculum plans are just as good).

 

Best of all: ITS FREE!!!! which means you don't feel guilty tweaking it to fit your particular situation (don't get me started on how many "well-laid-out-instructors-guides" I have wasted money on altering to fit to my taste :tongue_smilie: ).

 

The books she schedules are inexpensive to purchase at amazon or ebay or even from Paperback Swap) if you want to keep them. Better yet, you can check your local library and if they are not available, simply search for substitutes. Again, no big deal when you are using a free guide.

 

Did I mention that I LOVE LOVE LOVE her curriculum? :D

[Cherryanne]

I have such high hopes for their programs, but they always fall short for me. I always want more than I get from them. I would rather a better organized program (guide book) that I can add to or take away from over a disorganized mess any day (and that has been my experience with two programs from WP).

 

Thank you! This is good to know!

 

Also, I have found NUMEROUS hands on projects for American History on the Scholastic $1 download sale. I think they will be perfect to add into SL next year for my older son. Just my 2 cents!

 

Off to check this out. Thanks!

 

Have you looked at the free schedule from Guest Hollow? It is AWESOME! I could spend hours telling you about how great it is but seriously you have to look at it for yourself.

 

Jenn has been so gracious in offering, in my opinion, a much better alternative for American History than WP or SL (her other curriculum plans are just as good).

 

Best of all: ITS FREE!!!! which means you don't feel guilty tweaking it to fit your particular situation (don't get me started on how many "well-laid-out-instructors-guides" I have wasted money on altering to fit to my taste :tongue_smilie: ).

 

The books she schedules are inexpensive to purchase at amazon or ebay or even from Paperback Swap) if you want to keep them. Better yet, you can check your local library and if they are not available, simply search for substitutes. Again, no big deal when you are using a free guide.

 

Did I mention that I LOVE LOVE LOVE her curriculum? :D

 

Thank you! I forgot about Guest Hollow! This looks great! Have you used both years of their American history program?

[DawnM]

I am an endless tweaker.....I was in pursuit of the perfect curriculum. Then I realized that given MY children and their needs, there is nothing "perfect for them" out there. So, we are driven by 3 different personalities and interests.

 

Here is what I did for Cores 3 and now 4....we got a good deal on them used. I bought them at the same time, so I had both available.

 

We started with Landmark and quickly learned that it is NOT what my kids will "get" at this stage. We tried to do it and did some of it....

 

So: We bought the Time Traveler CDs from here:

 

http://www.homeschoolinthewoods.com/HTTA/TTS/ and used those as more of a Spine and for crafts.

 

Then we read SL books as our readers and resource guide (IG) for comprehension questions, etc...

 

Then I realized that WP uses TT so I thought, "Hey, maybe they have done what I have, but already have it all planned out!" So I got AC2 this year and planned to integrate it with SL COre 4 books. For US it was a big mistake! Well, not a mistake, but not the right fit. AC2 does NOT use TT CDs for one thing but there were other reasons it just wasn't "us." So, we have gone back to tweaking the dickens out of Core 4 and doing that.

 

I add in all sorts of books and take away books as I see fit. We are reading Steve Sheinkin books this year (we read Two Miserable Presidents and now are reading Which Way to the Wild West) and are loving them and I have just gotten some of the "You wouldn't want to be" series books for the boys to read on their own:

 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=two+presidents&x=0&y=0#/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_30?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=you+wouldn't+want+to+be+series&sprefix=yo

 

All of the above to really say: Do what works best for your style of teaching as well as their style of learning.

 

We are still doing most of WP LA 5, although I find it lacking in many ways and have supplemented that too, but for the price I am not ditching it just yet! I bought it new this year. We will not be using it again next year.

 

Our preference is SL over WP, but even SL requires us to tweak to make it work for us.

 

Dawn

[Guest aquiverfull]

I never used SL core 3. I used SL Core 1+2 and WP AS 1 (when it was the older version). Out of the two, I feel like SL is a much better product. It flows much better, but it is mostly just reading. That's the reason, I went with WP AS1 instead of Core 3 at the time. For us WP wasn't that bad. At times it did feel choppy and I felt like there was too much overlap in the books we were reading. We thoroughly enjoyed the paper crafts but there were so many that we experienced burn out towards the end of the year. In hindsight, if I had to choose again, I think I'd choose SL and just add in the hands on projects myself. Really that's all WP had done (it may have changed since I used the 1st edition of it), they just used scholastic books and scheduled in the crafts from those-- something I could have done myself. There was no mapping instruction in WP and I bought the map pack they sell, I guess you were supposed to come up with that on your own. SL has the mapping and discussion questions.

Edited January 17, 2011 by aquiverfull

[Penelope]

I am using core 3 with a couple of activities from activity books added in. One of them is the Colonial activites book from AS1. It has a lot of good ideas. Then Evan Moor has some Native American activity books, or you can probably find some similar things from the library.

 

AS1 did not seem meaty enough to me for 3rd grade. Core 3 with advanced readers is just about right. I also like SL IG better than WP for the younger levels. And SL customer service is really excellent IME.

[Cherryanne]

Thank you so much for your help everyone! Because of your input I've decided we will do Core 3 w/ the 4 day schedule so we can use Fridays for hands-on activities. Thank you all for keeping me from making a purchase I'm fairly certain I would have regretted! :001_smile:

[Annabel Lee]

I'm sure some of the negative WP AS1 reviews you read were mine. Their shipping should be better now, as they moved from an island off the very north-east coast to Michigan in the last year or so. When I ordered AS1 in 2009, I only ordered exclusives from WP and the rest from amazon or other places. It didn't end up being very much $$ difference.

 

I use Guesthollow's American History, too, and we all love it in this house! I'm very picky about history being presented chronologically unless the program has an organized way of doing it otherwise (ex. focuses on the people/culture of 1 region for awhile and then hops back in time just a little to see what's going on in the regions next-door before moving forward). Many people are not so picky, and it's probably not as detrimental to the kids if it's not all collated perfectly as I imagine. With GH, I can use or not use whatever I want from it and not feel bad since it's free. Some weeks, I have substituted the "main lesson" from a Guerber book or a Peter Marsall (From Sea to Shining Sea for kids, and the 2 sequels). It's easy to add or subtract what you need from the program. If your kids don't like History Pockets (which are used alot in American Hist. 1, BUT it's noted that it's not integral to the program) there are plenty of other projects listed - from lapbooks & notebook pages to recipes & crafts (like making your own candles, dying wool & weaving it, etc.). In American Hist. 2 there's a study of all the presidents, states and of American artists with coordinating art lessons.

 

I had to take my printed-out GH schedule to my parent's house to prepare for the next few weeks when my computer was down recently, and both my dad and brother (history buffs, esp. war buffs) were very impressed with how well-done yet age-appropriate it is. Meaty enough to hold their interest but not too heavy-handed with the horrors of history. It's got a good balance.

[truebluexf]

I found AS1 plenty "meaty" for 3rd grade. There is SO MUCH material included, more than I will get through, and many items are targeted to much older children.

 

That said, I'm one of the many who won't be ordering again for a variety of reasons. Their shipping has gotten moderately better, but I still think that's only bc I expected worse. I had all my items in about a month or so. I am not impressed with my materials or the service I received. Honestly, the proof is in the pudding. Go to their own discussion boards and see how dead it is over there. Last year there was some decent conversation. This year...nothing. I mean, within each curriculum no one is discussing with each other though they were moving along well last year. I really think their fanbase has jumped ship.

 

I wish I had found GH in time to use it this year, I'd have saved myself a few hundred dollars.

[Jennay]

Well, I will be using SL Core 3 next year with accelerated 2nd and 3rd grade sons. My plan is to use History Scribe for notebooking, the 3-D Maps and diorama books that WP uses, and Hands and Hearts kits (www.handsandhearts.com) or kits from Corps of Re-Discovery. We do not need scheduled hands-on activities - we just add them in when we have the time, energy, and interest.