Phonics vs whole word

[Quad Shot Academy]

I am sure most WTM'ers will agree that phonics is best, but what if it is just not working? Is whole language an okay alternative if basic phonics is being taught alongside, in case it finally clicks? Are there some kids that just learn whole language better? Would you shell out big bucks for a phonics program made for children with LDs before moving to whole language or only if whole language did not work?

 

Thanks! (If I don't respond for a while, it is because I am having a baby! ;) )

[Ginevra]

IMO, phonics always works eventually. Even a statistic I read before was something like 98% of people given systematic phonics instruction learn to read, including ESL and adult remedial students. I would never switch to whole word.

 

My first child learned to read effortlessly; my second took years and years to build fluency, but I still give all the credit to learning the structure of words. Things that helped ds build fluency included listening to an audiobook while reading along in the physical book, reading easy books aloud to me (such as Magic Treehouse) and Hiskes Word Pyramid book.

 

Learning phonics is what gives children a way to approach strange words or names they've never seen before. At least it gives them a way to make it through what they're trying to read, even if they don't get every word right.

[6packofun]

It's rarely all or nothing, but more phonics is pretty solidly effective most of the time. If straight phonics wasn't working well after really giving it a go, I'd try an approach like Reading Reflex or Teach a Child to Read With Children's Books. :)

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Do you have a child with a hearing impairment? The reason I ask is because my nephew has difficulties learning to read using phonics, because he can't hear many of the sounds as they are spoken. Plain old phonics wasn't working for him.

[bettyandbob]

If this is for your 6 yo, I would say keep plugging away at phonics. If this is for your 8 or 10 yo, then try whole language to see if the child starts picking things up. I would continue to work on phonics, but there's nothing wrong with seeing if whole language works.

 

What phonics programs have you tried. Have you done anything with a strong tactile component, like saying the sounds as you write the letters and doing this on sand paper for further tactile input. Orton Gillingham based programs do this. They have a lot of research behind them. However, the problem is it is very hard to find the one that will click with your kid and they tend to be very expensive.

 

My personal experience is I have a child who has down syndrome. He has known all the letter sounds since he was 4. I have him placed in a public school program (he's with typical kids, but gets pull out for reading and math). I refused whole language for him for several years--the preschool teacher wanted to do whole language. He already had quite a bit from watching Signing Time videos, so I knew he could memorize words, but I wanted to emphasize the sounds and blending. He could not get blending no matter what I or the school did. So, last year at age 8 the teacher proposed whole word again (Edmark). He's really beginning to read. That's the most important thing. We still do phonics. At 9.5 he 's doing a small amount of blending--I don't know if he gets it though or he's just done the sounding out with me and the teacher so many times that he's memorized how to sound out "at" words. We are looking at investing in an Orton-Gillingham based program in the next few years, but right now the goal is to read. People who read whole words do read and comprehend--they can't read new words they haven't seen--that's the skill you get with phonics.

 

Right now, I'd rather ds begin to read something using his strengths rather than not read while we beat away at his weaknesses. I can still beat away at his weaknesses, but he needs to feel success and he needs some amount of this life skill.

[Sahamamama]

IMO, phonics always works eventually. Even a statistic I read before was something like 98% of people given systematic phonics instruction learn to read, including ESL and adult remedial students. I would never switch to whole word.

 

My first child learned to read effortlessly; my second took years and years to build fluency, but I still give all the credit to learning the structure of words. Things that helped ds build fluency included listening to an audiobook while reading along in the physical book, reading easy books aloud to me (such as Magic Treehouse) and Hiskes Word Pyramid book.

 

Learning phonics is what gives children a way to approach strange words or names they've never seen before. At least it gives them a way to make it through what they're trying to read, even if they don't get every word right.

 

:iagree:Couldn't have said it better.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Thanks for the answers so far!

 

To answer some questions:

 

It is for my 6.5 year old girl. She does not have hearing problems, but has the same speech problems her older brother has but he was reading Nancy Drew books at her age, so I don't think that is a large component. I have done the same phonics programs with her as with my older two. We started with TATRAS (basically a chart of 40 phonograms and lists of most commonly occurring words), then BOB books, with some 100 Easy Lesson work, sight word flash cards, Spectrum phonics workbooks and easy readers from the library. I also bought Explode the Code workbooks and a subscription to CLick N' Kids for her.

[BamaTanya]

I've been all over the place with this. I taught in a small private school that was ALL phonics and for several years in a public school that was on the whole language band wagon . . .

 

I taught my children to read with phonics, but I was taught the old look-say method popular in the 70s. I've always been an excellent reader and speller. It wasn't until my phonics training as a teacher, however, that I understood the "rules"! I realize that method for reading and spelling had worked for me because I'm a visual learner.

 

I do believe phonics programs (comprehensive, explicit programs) are a superior method in general. For some children, the whole language method will provide greater support as they learn to make sense of phonics. Some children will struggle more than others and using a variety of methods may be what they need to experience some success and enjoy the process.

 

A good book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Child-Read-Childrens-Books/dp/1883790255/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294195164&sr=1-1

[Quad Shot Academy]

Basically the problem is that she is almost unable to sound out any words: cat, sat, is, it. She sputters out sounds, while smacking her head until the right sound comes out. She knows it is the wrong sound and she knows when she gets to the right sound w/o any feedback from me, but it is laborious.

 

She made it 1/2 way through the third series of BOB books basically by memorizing them, but still could not read "Mat" in a different book. If I give her the first sound of the word, she can usually blend the rest of the word if it is in context; I am not sure if it is just in isolation. I recently gave up on phonics and just got lots of fun books from the library: Little Bear, Level 2 readers, An I Can Read Book. I was shocked at how well she does once we get a couple pages into the story and she knows the context. She reads maybe 75% of words: Mother, bear, Little, space, pants, house, princess.

 

She is still doing the CLick N' Kids for phonics and the sight word flash cards. Other than that she is reading me several books a day. We will start AAS next year, but I am really worried about "skipping" phonics and her inability to sound out simple words.

[bettyandbob]

OK, IMO, I think 6.5 is too young to put phonics on the back burner. And Nancy Drew is advanced for many 6.5 yos. I think you should consider Reading Reflex or ABeCeDarian. They are both strong programs which a parent can implement. I think ABeCeDarian may be easier to implement. I know people who swear by Reading Reflex. Someone else might have a better suggestion.

 

Try not to compare your dc. It is so hard. My oldest read at 4. My middle refused to read, but wrote 3 word sentences (very phonetically spelled) in preschool, so she could probably have been reading. She did a lot art and had to title everything. She was not a fluent reader until 6.5. My oldest never needed a spelling program either. I had to beat away at spelling with my dd for years trying a few different programs. She's not a great speller today, but at least she doesn't spell everything wrong.

 

When you homeschool it's so great when whatever you did with kid 1 works with kid 2. But one of the great things about homeschool is you get to pick (pull your hair out finding) to exact match in curriculum to your dc. So, I guess I'm saying to pull your hair out while trying to find the match. You may need a much more intensive approach, which is hard to do with the third child when you've got to spend time with the older ones.

 

I think teaching reading is one of the most stressful things about homeschool. Everything else depends on it. Good luck! You don't have to pull your hair, but you aren't alone in trying to find the thing that works.

[6packofun]

You may just have too much going on at once. I'm not saying you're doing all the things you mentioned each day, but focus on one or two skills/phonograms and let her accomplish them pretty completely before adding another thing in. We would spend time working on the skills needed to read ONE specific book and then the goal would be for the child to read that easy reader before we'd try reading other stuff.

 

Also, I suggest Games for Reading by Peggy Kaye and other fun ways to reinforce the concepts. And, as others said, no comparing! 6.5 is still pretty young and if you gently keep at it, you will see her leap forward at some point, maybe hold steady for a while and then sprint ahead again! That's how it was many times for our kiddos.

[ElizabethB]

All the extra work from my remedial students would make me wait until double digits, at least! (10 years old)

 

I am tutoring a 7 year old boy with speech apraxia right now, he still has troubles with some things (like ou and a few other 2 letter phonograms and br, bl, fl, str, etc.), but with Webster's Speller, he can sound out many 2 and 3 syllable words easily, he's moving along now much faster than my students without speech problems who did sight words. Once the phonics starts to click, if you have not been exposed to a lot of sight words, you can make some amazing progress with a good program like Webster's Speller. Sight words really slow down a student in the long run. It can be a lot of work with a struggling student up front to master the phonics skills, but it is worth it in the end.

 

Some students need a lot of repetition with the basic sounds and blending practice.

 

I would try my game for a bit and work on some nonsense words, and try adding in a bit of spelling.

 

You could also try Webster's Speller, it really is amazing! I haven't updated my thread for a while, but my son is doing much better with the transition from short vowels to long vowels than my daughter, and she did much better overall with phonics than him, but I hadn't discovered Webster with her until I had been doing a regular phonics program for a while, and they all hang out on CVC words for a while, making the transition to silent e words difficult. The way Webster's is organized doing long and short vowels with the syllables every day, the transition is going much smoother for my son.

[Quad Shot Academy]

 

A good book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Child-Read-Childrens-Books/dp/1883790255/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294195164&sr=1-1

 

I read this book years ago. Thank you for reminding me about it, I totally forgot about it. I put it on hold again already.

[Quad Shot Academy]

I took my 6yo for a well child check and the ped said she needed to start speech therapy again. I spoke with the speech therapist about the above reading problems and the fact that my daughter frequently says the opposite of what she means w/o knowing it. She said it was an oral motor planning issue. After she clears up the articulation issues, she is going to give some sort of test that will show how much of her reading struggles are that or various other things. She also suggested choral reading for her. So we are continuing with CLick N' kids phonics since it requires no speech and we are using Teach a Child to Read Using Children's Books. Thanks for all the ideas!

[jewellsmommy]

I took my 6yo for a well child check and the ped said she needed to start speech therapy again. I spoke with the speech therapist about the above reading problems and the fact that my daughter frequently says the opposite of what she means w/o knowing it. She said it was an oral motor planning issue. After she clears up the articulation issues, she is going to give some sort of test that will show how much of her reading struggles are that or various other things. She also suggested choral reading for her. So we are continuing with CLick N' kids phonics since it requires no speech and we are using Teach a Child to Read Using Children's Books. Thanks for all the ideas!

 

 

May I ask what lesson you are on in Click n read? We used this and I noticed a huge leap in her reading around lesson 60-something. We also use ETC. My dd was slower due to a few medical issues that were not resolved until she was 7. Even though she had a slow start, she caught up very quickly. It seems that the slower starters still end up with their peers. They don't stay behind long (outside of undiagnosed issues that is).

[Quad Shot Academy]

May I ask what lesson you are on in Click n read? We used this and I noticed a huge leap in her reading around lesson 60-something. We also use ETC.

 

She was on 45, but I just backed her up to 35. She is having a difficult time remembering the difference between ch, sh, and th, but other than that she is doing well with it. I hope she takes of around lesson 60. That is encouraging!

 

I had to give up on ETC in book 1.5. Not. working. at. all.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Something with markings is helpful for my remedial students with speech difficulties.

 

Once you get some of the speech problems under control, i would try a program with diacritical markings. My student with speech apraxia is doing well with CLE and the 1908 Webster's Speller.

 

You could also try Read, Write, Type, it is a good online program that requires no oral reading.

 

I would also start doing the syllables in Webster's Speller in written form, you say the syllables and she spells them. The syllables are also helpful for my students with speech difficulties.

[ChristusG]

You could have her visual and auditory processing evaluated. My 6 year old (she'll be 7 at the end of April) was having a very difficult time with reading. She's had speech issues since she learned to talk. We had been to several speech therapists and nothing was working. Basically all they were doing was saying words back and forth to each other. After years of speech therapy, I finally pulled her out and started working on it at home with her. Still nothing. She was reading CVC words at 6.5 years old and that's it.

 

Finally someone told me about auditory and visual processing disorders. So I had DD evaluated. Turns out, her eyes were not tracking across the page as they should. Also, her speech and reading issues are caused by the fact that she's not hearing small bits of sound...like the difference between cab and crab.

 

We just finished with the visual part of her therapy. It took 6 weeks. Now we're moving on to the auditory portion. Already, she is very improved in her reading.

 

I'm using the phonics program that the therapist herself created...it's very good. And I'm supplementing with Explode the Code books. We're on Book 3 of it now.

 

Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration.

[Quad Shot Academy]

You could have her visual and auditory processing evaluated.

 

What type of professional do you go to, to have this done?