PSAT and the Wolves

[Mad Jenny Flint]

Good experience at a very accommodating local private school. Ds did feel like an oddball when it came up at the end of the testing session that he was hsed, and he was the only one in that particular room. One kid said "man, you should get out around people more" to which the teacher replied "I'm sure there are people in his house." My son just said "Wow." These people don't know him from anybody.

[lisabees]

Why? It's just a snapshot in time. It doesn't define your child. You already know what he is capable of.

 

I find it more telling that major universities across the country are dumping the SAT because they were getting so many applicants with lovely scores and nothing to back them up. eg: they had learned how to take a test, but they hadn't learned how to learn.

 

Don't worry about your child, he'll be fine.

 

 

a

 

 

Thanks for the reminder asta. You're right, of course. ;)

[Hillary in KS]

Ds did fine. He was nervous about not knowing where to go once he went into the building, but not nervous about taking the test.

 

Afterward I found out that all the kids were in one room, sitting together at long tables.

 

All except my son, who sat alone at a desk in the corner. :glare:

 

They had assigned seats, and told him that they didn't do a good job of planning for tables and ran out of table space. I get that. It happens. But they put the only homeschooler taking the test off in a corner. It didn't help him think any better of the local high school (which already had a pretty bad reputation in town).

 

He thinks he did fine on the test, though. I'm glad that his discomfort at sitting alone and standing out didn't seem to affect his concentration.

[creekland]

I find it more telling that major universities across the country are dumping the SAT because they were getting so many applicants with lovely scores and nothing to back them up. eg: they had learned how to take a test, but they hadn't learned how to learn.

 

a

 

Not many dump the SAT/ACT for homeschoolers going straight to their college from high school because [they say] they have no other way to assess the quality of their education. All of the schools we visited (both secular large, secular small, public, private, and Christian) told us they put a HIGHER weight on standardized test scores for the vast majority of homeschoolers.

 

That said, none will care about the PSAT. It's only a test to be a practice for the SAT and a "kudos" scholarship for a small minority of top testers on that day junior year. My youngun may, or may not, qualify, but his ACT score already on the books is likely to get him vast amounts of merit aid at the right schools. He's taking the ACT again next Saturday to up his points a little bit (since he had issues with one section on the first test) and have the potential for merit aid at even more schools. The PSAT, if he qualifies, would just be a bonus at some schools that guarantee certain levels of aid. It's not a "get something or get absolutely nothing" test.

 

I polled the kids in my College Algebra class today - a college credit course (some are Juniors and took it yesterday). They ALL said it was hard. Who knows? You aren't allowed to talk about any specific question(s) and I didn't get to look at the test as I wasn't a proctor this year.

[creekland]

Ds did fine. He was nervous about not knowing where to go once he went into the building, but not nervous about taking the test.

 

Afterward I found out that all the kids were in one room, sitting together at long tables.

 

All except my son, who sat alone at a desk in the corner. :glare:

 

They had assigned seats, and told him that they didn't do a good job of planning for tables and ran out of table space. I get that. It happens. But they put the only homeschooler taking the test off in a corner. It didn't help him think any better of the local high school (which already had a pretty bad reputation in town).

 

He thinks he did fine on the test, though. I'm glad that his discomfort at sitting alone and standing out didn't seem to affect his concentration.

 

I'm glad your son did fine, but it sure SEEMS to be a way that could lead to a group testing effort (ie cheating) with those sitting together at long tables and excluding the one homeschooler (they wouldn't want him to benefit).

 

Granted, what seems to be the case isn't necessarily so, and I certainly wasn't there, but I (as a teacher and parent of a junior) sure don't like to hear about kids grouped together at long tables for this type of test. I wonder how often that happens?

[Hillary in KS]

I'm glad your son did fine, but it sure SEEMS to be a way that could lead to a group testing effort (ie cheating) with those sitting together at long tables and excluding the one homeschooler (they wouldn't want him to benefit).

 

Granted, what seems to be the case isn't necessarily so, and I certainly wasn't there, but I (as a teacher and parent of a junior) sure don't like to hear about kids grouped together at long tables for this type of test. I wonder how often that happens?

 

You know, I hadn't even thought of that.:001_huh:

 

I was only thinking of everyone in a large group and one guy off to the side. Sitting separately like that can be unnerving to anyone, but especially a high schooler who doesn't want to draw attention to himself.

 

It never occurred to me to wonder about kids looking, talking with, or helping each other. Or, at least, the appearance or opportunity for cheating to happen.

[Mad Jenny Flint]

Not an ideal testing situation. There is even admonition against that in the packets they send out for the IOWA, for heaven's sake.

[creekland]

It never occurred to me to wonder about kids looking, talking with, or helping each other. Or, at least, the appearance or opportunity for cheating to happen.

 

If they do the same with the ACT/SAT that would help explain what Asta mentioned... kids that have learned how to take a test (cheating) without having learned to learn.

 

At each school I'm familiar with (which would be mine and where my boys have taken tests - local Catholic school), each student gets their own desk or table (generally desk) and test with plenty of space between students.

 

I really do NOT like knowing some schools are putting kids all together where it can be easy to see someone else's paper, but in today's "group environment" and desire to show "results" it doesn't surprise me.

[Luckymama]

My older kids have been in situations of testing at large tables (not PSAT/SAT/ACT) but there would only be three or five kids at the table, depending on length. If at a 8' table, for example, one kid would be on the far left on one side, the second would be in the middle on the opposite side, and the third would be on the far right on the first side. Depending on the type of test-----essay vs bubbling----cheating or copying could be very difficult.

 

I know that some schools had to set up math competitions this way, in order to have all competitors in the same room, like at cafeteria tables.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

My older kids have been in situations of testing at large tables (not PSAT/SAT/ACT) but there would only be three or five kids at the table, depending on length. If at a 8' table, for example, one kid would be on the far left on one side, the second would be in the middle on the opposite side, and the third would be on the far right on the first side. Depending on the type of test-----essay vs bubbling----cheating or copying could be very difficult.

 

I know that some schools had to set up math competitions this way, in order to have all competitors in the same room, like at cafeteria tables.

My ds took the test at a private Christian school and they used long tables but there were only 2 kids per table. There were many homeschooled kids taking the test (our ISP is associated with this school) and the kids (homeschooled or private) just sat wherever they wanted after they signed in.

[Nan in Mass]

We found this, too. My older one tests badly, so we looked at a number of colleges that said SAT/ACTs were optional. It turned out that they were only optional if you weren't homeschooled. They all very firmly said that my son had to have SAT scores. Some were sympathetic about testing issues and said they'd take that into account, but that they wanted to see them anyway. One of the most sympathetic suggested taking CC classes to balance out any potentially the bad SAT scores.

-Nan

[Belacqua]

 

I know that some schools had to set up math competitions this way, in order to have all competitors in the same room, like at cafeteria tables.

 

At our state's Mathcounts competition, they did it that way. Four kids to a table, and they put up these cardboard dividers (kind of like giant versions of the dividers in wine boxes) so there would be no peeking.

[ereks mom]

...was also very accommodating. It's a small private school, probably no more than 40 kids per grade in the high school. It was the same school where ER took the PSAT when he was in high school, so I had met the guidance counselor back then (5 years ago). She remembered me, and even asked about ER. :001_smile: I had spoken with her by phone back in August, and she suggested then that I call her again on the day before the test to get last-minute details (drop-off & pick-up times, etc.).

 

The guidance counselor arranaged to meet EK & me at the school office about 7:50 the morning of the test. She took EK to the testing area, and I left. She introduced EK to another student, and asked the student to be EK's "guide" for the day. The student was pretty friendly, EK said, although when the girl was introducing EK to her friends, she never told them EK's name; she just said, "She's homeschooled." There were a few questions for EK about that; she was the only homeschooler who was there for the PSAT. But the students didn't shun her, and EK said the testing itself went smoothly.

 

The proctor for the test was one of the school's history teachers, and she was very helpful, though she admitted that she'd never had a homeschooler in her testing room before. The teacher wasn't sure how EK was supposed to fill out the personal info part of the test (school name, address, code, etc.), but I had prepared EK for that ahead of time, so she assured the teacher she knew just what to do. EK said she was startled each time the bell rang for the rest of the school to change classes, wondering if the bell meant the testing period was over, but when she noticed that the other students didn't react, she ignored it too. EK is one of those kids who sings or hums while she's working, and she said she caught herself about to burst into song at one point, but she stopped herself in time. ;) She said she's pretty sure she had been humming for a short time before that though. :001_huh:

 

As for the test itself, EK said that she was able to finish all the subtests before time was called, and even had time to look back over her work. She said it had REALLY helped a lot to take the practice test at home; that way, she was familiar with the format of the test, and the directions and examples for each section were exactly like the ones on the practice test, so she didn't have to spend very much time figuring out what she was supposed to do. :thumbup:

 

The students took a break for restroom & snack about halfway through the testing period, and she overheard some of the kids talking about the test. EK was appalled when one girl say to a few others, "Are you really trying on this test? I'm not; I'm just bubbling in answers." :ack2:

 

EK said that the only time that was awkward was after the test, when she was waiting for me on the sidewalk outside the school office. A man (teacher? headmaster?) came up to her and asked her accusingly, "What are you doing??" She said she told him that she was waiting to be picked up. She said she told him that she wasn't a student there; she was homeschooled, and had come to take the PSAT. She said he told her, "Oh, I didn't think you looked familiar!" and walked away. :D

Edited October 15, 2010 by ereks mom

[holdoll]

The guidance counselor arranaged to meet EK & me at the school office about 7:50 the morning of the test. She took EK to the testing area, and I left.

 

I wish this had been my dd's experience. She was told by the guidance counselor the room number and said, "The room's that way" and pointed. Dd got lost but thankfully I had dropped her off 1/2 hour early so she still made it with 15 minutes to spare.

 

She will be back to this school on the 23rd for the ACT. It'll be on a Saturday and I'm hoping more organized.

 

At any rate, just like a PP observed of her son, dd walked out like she owned the place. There was a group of football players standing in front of the exit who wouldn't move for anyone and she just walked right through the middle of them! :lol:

[creekland]

At our state's Mathcounts competition, they did it that way. Four kids to a table, and they put up these cardboard dividers (kind of like giant versions of the dividers in wine boxes) so there would be no peeking.

 

If this were the case - or those mentioned before with 2 or 3 kids to a long table I wouldn't be bothered at all as yes, some rooms are set up that way. It wasn't what I was picturing, but as I said, I wasn't there.

[Julie in GA]

nm

[Hillary in KS]

UPDATE::

 

I asked my son about the seating. He said everyone was in one room. There were 4 rows of long tables, like lunch-room tables. 4 people sat at each table, and there were 3-4 feet between each person. So, cheating would've been tough.

 

The kids were all seated alphabetically along the tables. All except my son, who was at a desk in the corner next to the teacher's desk. :glare:

 

We have a surname that begins with a letter in the middle of the alphabet, so it's not like he was Mr. Xavier and ended up the odd man out. They told him they just did a poor job planning for tables, but he's convinced himself they did it because they don't like homeschoolers.:001_huh:

 

I have to go visit the registrar at the high school on Monday, so I'll mention it to him if he asks how the test went. Otherwise I'll just let it go.

[Laura in CA]

I'll be interested to see how it goes. Our situation is a bit different because my older son (10th grade) decided to go to ps this year, after 7 full years at home, and it's quite possible he'll take the test in the room where his English class meets. My younger son (9th grade), who's still homeschooling, will benefit from getting used to the testing environment before it counts in 11th grade. Also, I called today to check what time they're supposed to be there, and I ended up volunteering to help check the kids in at 7:45 ... when I went to pay, a few weeks ago, the woman running it (the career center lady) recognized me from the ps my kids attended 8 years ago. (It's a small town :001_smile: ... and even if my older son hadn't started attending this school a few months ago, he would have recognized a lot of the kids from church, youth orchestra, etc.) The school as a whole isn't very homeschool-friendly, but I've had nothing but graciousness from individual staff members. So I'm not anticipating any problems -- we'll see!

 

~Laura

[creekland]

UPDATE::

 

I asked my son about the seating. He said everyone was in one room. There were 4 rows of long tables, like lunch-room tables. 4 people sat at each table, and there were 3-4 feet between each person. So, cheating would've been tough.

 

 

That definitely makes me feel better in general, but it's still rather annoying concerning your son. :glare:

[Hillary in KS]

That definitely makes me feel better in general, but it's still rather annoying concerning your son. :glare:

 

Yeah, that's kind of how I felt. :)

[Deidre in GA]

since my son is in his third year of PS after homeschooling through 8th, i don't check in here too often. i would like to throw out to folks that though the PSAT is only administered once a year, the SAT is given throughout the year. we've been using those as 'practice tests.'

 

i had my son take the actual SAT in June of 2009 and 2010. for both of those we did absolutely no prep. i simply wanted to demystify the tests and for him to have more standardized test experience under his belt before the senior year SAT. we will prep for the Senior year SAT. besides building his confidence the test scores have been a level of reality check both what we did as homeschoolers and what the school is or isn't doing for him. btw, i am still afterschooling him in math using Teaching Textbooks.

 

if your child needs practice do consider taking the actual SAT and considering the resulting scores with a grain of salt. even PS parents are doing this; there were some 6th graders taking the test each time my son took it.

[Kalypso]

My dd took it yesterday and thought it went well. She said the kids around her were talking about how many they had to skip, but she said she didn't skip any and that she always had time left. I guess we'll see in December...

 

This was her first experience in a ps taking a timed test. I am glad it seemed to go well for her because she was nervous about it. She is a sophomore this year, so it was good practice for her.

[Hunter's Moon]

I took it yesterday at a private school I had wanted to attend for high school.

 

It went really well. No one bothered me, looked at me weird, or anything.

 

It was weird, there were about 50 11th graders. In my old school, there were at least 200.

[Tressa]

My son took it at the local public high school. It was fine. I just dropped him off. Apparently, the school separted the homeschoolers from everyone else. It seemse they went to great lengths to make sure that we are going to receive our results at home. I appreciate that.

 

I was also surprised at the small number of kids taking the test. Our public high school is one of the largest in the state and there were probably less than 200 kids taking the test. When the Junior class is 800 kids strong, 200 kids is pretty small number.