S/O Depression Survival and Regulations

[joannqn]

I'm not much of a history person (seems I learned nothing in school) so forgive me if I'm totally wrong here...

 

But during the Great Depression, people got by renting out rooms, selling eggs, keeping a garden and selling off some of it, etc. These days regulations requiring permits, business licenses, etc. do not allow this kind of thing. I've even read articles about kids' lemonade stands being shut down for lack of permits. Even bartering is taxable income these days.

 

So, if the economy keeps getting worse and we are forced to do more of this kind of stuff to get by, how do we do it legally? Or are we all just screwed?

 

How will you get by?

[Murphy101]

I think people will do it anyhow under the table and tell the law where to put it if caught. That's basically what they did during the depression too.

 

I suppose the police could cart them off to jail for free govt room and boatd as a punishment. Sounds like something stupid the law would do.

 

Dh and I have discussed renting out if necessary.

Farming isn't much of an option on our urban lot, certainly not enough for 11 AND to sell.

[Gwenhwyfar]

I'm not much of a history person (seems I learned nothing in school) so forgive me if I'm totally wrong here...

 

But during the Great Depression, people got by renting out rooms, selling eggs, keeping a garden and selling off some of it, etc. These days regulations requiring permits, business licenses, etc. do not allow this kind of thing. I've even read articles about kids' lemonade stands being shut down for lack of permits. Even bartering is taxable income these days.

 

So, if the economy keeps getting worse and we are forced to do more of this kind of stuff to get by, how do we do it legally? Or are we all just screwed?

 

How will you get by?

 

if it got *that* bad ~ i wouldn't care if those things were legal or not. a person has to eat & whatnot...

 

(how in the world is bartering taxable? you do mean it like i think, right? - you mow your neighbour's lawn, she babysits for ya... you cut someone's hair, he changes the oil in your car... whatever... ?)

[joannqn]

IRS website about bartering

 

DH sometimes trades his services (IT) for things. Usually it's luxuries we'd normally not be able to afford like theater or sports tickets, but it could get to a point of being for necessities. I've also thought about bartering for necessities if it got down to that.

[DarcyB]

I don't understand how that can be included in income unless they get to write off the full amount as a business expenditure as well. That's whacked.

[amy g.]

This is something that bothers me. The food laws here are so restrictive that it is illegal for me to GIVE my neighbor raw goat milk for her arthritic old dog.

 

Miss Good had some goats listed on Craigslist. A man emailed, said he wanted to come by and buy one. She replied that for bio security reasons, no one is allowed to visit our property. It turns out, he was a milk inspector trying to come over and trap her. He had no reason to suspect that she had broken any law. She hadn't. He was just looking for trouble. They are getting more aggressive and intrusive, not less so.

 

We have always done a lot of bartering. Dh has been warning me about the IRS lately.

[Murphy101]

This is something that bothers me. The food laws here are so restrictive that it is illegal for me to GIVE my neighbor raw goat milk for her arthritic old dog.

 

Miss Good had some goats listed on Craigslist. A man emailed, said he wanted to come by and buy one. She replied that for bio security reasons, no one is allowed to visit our property. It turns out, he was a milk inspector trying to come over and trap her. He had no reason to suspect that she had broken any law. She hadn't. He was just looking for trouble. They are getting more aggressive and intrusive, not less so.

 

We have always done a lot of bartering. Dh has been warning me about the IRS lately.

 

Yes, because this is becoming their way of making money.:glare:

[Tabrett]

I think most people would be working "under the table". The laws are becoming way too controlling; stifling. Controlling to the point where people are starting to rebel. I think that is one of the reasons eBay and craigs list are so popular.

I would barter, sell thing to neighbors, pretty much anything that is not immoral.

The government would need to be restructured. The question is, will we make the government lessen the reigns or allow then to tighten to the point we strangle ourselves to death?

[joannqn]

The question is, will we make the government lessen the reigns or allow then to tighten to the point we strangle ourselves to death?

 

 

Gosh, I would love a smaller government with less restrictive laws and lower taxes but 95% of everything I vote for loses in this state. I usually don't vote anymore because of it. What's the point?

 

For what it is worth, I did vote in the last major election and my candidates pretty much lost across the board, same for the initiatives and such. I plan on voting in near future elections, but I'm not holding out any hope of change.

[Vida Winter]

 

So, if the economy keeps getting worse and we are forced to do more of this kind of stuff to get by, how do we do it legally? Or are we all just screwed?

 

How will you get by?

 

If it gets that bad, those rules and regulations will be disregarded by just about everyone. They would be the least of my worries.

[....]

IRS website about bartering

 

DH sometimes trades his services (IT) for things. Usually it's luxuries we'd normally not be able to afford like theater or sports tickets, but it could get to a point of being for necessities. I've also thought about bartering for necessities if it got down to that.

 

:leaving: OK, the IRS isn't actually here, are they? We're originally from the south side of Chicago (I'll have to whisper). It's like anarchy there (but sometimes in a good way). Everybody trades stuff for other stuff. I've "heard" (but only through hearsay, IRS) of people trading work between small businesses. But, you didn't hear it from me. :cool: Trading is a way of survival for a lot of people in that area and they don't think twice about it.

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: starrbuck12 does not condone any illegal bartering, trading of goods or services or any IRS tax evasion.

Edited September 17, 2010 by starrbuck12

[Harriet Vane]

:leaving: OK, the IRS isn't actually here, are they? We're originally from the south side of Chicago (I'll have to whisper). It's like anarchy there (but sometimes in a good way). Everybody trades stuff for other stuff. I've "heard" (but only through hearsay, IRS) of people trading work between small businesses. But, you didn't hear it from me. :cool: Trading is a way of survival for a lot of people in that area and they don't think twice about it.

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: starrbuck12 does not condone any illegal bartering, trading of goods or services or any IRS tax evasion.

 

I am a Chicago native. I laughed out loud when I read this. Yes, indeed, Chicago has its own economic and political system. Some of it is based on The Machine politics, and some of it based on ordinary people trying to manage a reasonable life amid totally unreasonable laws (ever try to get a building permit?) and fees and sloooooow, grinding bureaucracy.

[asta]

I think most people would be working "under the table". The laws are becoming way too controlling; stifling. Controlling to the point where people are starting to rebel. I think that is one of the reasons eBay and craigs list are so popular.

I would barter, sell thing to neighbors, pretty much anything that is not immoral.

The government would need to be restructured. The question is, will we make the government lessen the reigns or allow then to tighten to the point we strangle ourselves to death?

 

This is not aimed at you Tabrett, I'm just tagging your post for convenience :001_smile:

 

This subject kinda cracks me up. We had a thread months ago - in fact, I think it was last year - about public assistance. Whether or not to take it, the morality of taking it, etc. I made a comment that I would never take it. That I would do whatever I had to do to insure my family's survival. What. Ever.

 

All hades broke loose on that comment. What if I lived in an urban area? What if I couldn't just hunt? What if...?

 

I'm with you on this one Tabrett - if it all starts to go, a restructuring is going to have to reoccur. And I'm not going to sit around waiting for someone to give me bread while it's happening. You won't see me crashing through storefronts and gleefully stealing big screen TVs, but you also won't see me whining and waiting for my government to help me live or giving a rat's patooie about the IRS and goats.

 

 

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[Murphy101]

This is not aimed at you Tabrett, I'm just tagging your post for convenience :001_smile:

 

This subject kinda cracks me up. We had a thread months ago - in fact, I think it was last year - about public assistance. Whether or not to take it, the morality of taking it, etc. I made a comment that I would never take it. That I would do whatever I had to do to insure my family's survival. What. Ever.

 

All hades broke loose on that comment. What if I lived in an urban area? What if I couldn't just hunt? What if...?

 

I'm with you on this one Tabrett - if it all starts to go, a restructuring is going to have to reoccur. And I'm not going to sit around waiting for someone to give me bread while it's happening. You won't see me crashing through storefronts and gleefully stealing big screen TVs, but you also won't see me

whining and waiting for my government to help me live or giving a rat's patooie about the IRS and goats.

 

I completely agree. :iagree: If things get that bad, I'm certainly not going to starve waiting for the a check in the mail and fret about the IRS. It's laughable to think there could be anarchy and we will be stressing over code violations.:tongue_smilie:

 

But otherwise, but I'm not going to be too critical turn down subsidies such as college grants, 1st time home buyer assistance, food stamps, or other forms of aid, that can help them get on their feet for a better future either. I do not know anyone that does not accept some form of govt assistance. Be it public school, housing, grants for various things from college or small business start ups, tax incentives, social security for old people....the list goes on.

 

And 98% of it people don't think twice about. It's only food stamps and corporate bailouts that po people. To my mind, that indicative of the upper middle class saying in a roundabout way that they fell they are the only ones who really deserve govt assistance.

[lionfamily1999]

Well fed IRS agents might be an issue, but I don't think local police forces in general will be a problem. They are living the same way as everyone else. Here, the dog warden brings your dog home when it gets loose. She knows how it is :shrug: she's 'one of us' if you will. The police are much the same way. They'll even take naughty (but not too naughty) kids home, rather than charging them with whatever naughtiness they've gotten into.

 

IOW, if it gets that bad, who will be enforcing these laws and regulations, and will they actually enforce them?

 

This is something that bothers me. The food laws here are so restrictive that it is illegal for me to GIVE my neighbor raw goat milk for her arthritic old dog.

 

Miss Good had some goats listed on Craigslist. A man emailed, said he wanted to come by and buy one. She replied that for bio security reasons, no one is allowed to visit our property. It turns out, he was a milk inspector trying to come over and trap her. He had no reason to suspect that she had broken any law. She hadn't. He was just looking for trouble. They are getting more aggressive and intrusive, not less so.

 

We have always done a lot of bartering. Dh has been warning me about the IRS lately.

You can't even give it away? Is it only milk, or do cheese and other products count?

 

I'll have to remember the bio safety reasoning. Note to self ;)

[Tabrett]

This is not aimed at you Tabrett, I'm just tagging your post for convenience :001_smile:

 

This subject kinda cracks me up. We had a thread months ago - in fact, I think it was last year - about public assistance. Whether or not to take it, the morality of taking it, etc. I made a comment that I would never take it. That I would do whatever I had to do to insure my family's survival. What. Ever.

 

All hades broke loose on that comment. What if I lived in an urban area? What if I couldn't just hunt? What if...?

 

I'm with you on this one Tabrett - if it all starts to go, a restructuring is going to have to reoccur. And I'm not going to sit around waiting for someone to give me bread while it's happening. You won't see me crashing through storefronts and gleefully stealing big screen TVs, but you also won't see me whining and waiting for my government to help me live or giving a rat's patooie about the IRS and goats.

 

 

a

 

:lol: My mind has been wheeling the last several days. Can you tell?

[Peela]

It is called the Black Market, and it was huge even during the Great Depression. It still exists, and it would certainly grow again if there was a need.

Survival is primal, and I would certainly work under the law to trade or sell my chickens' eggs or my excess tomatoes if I needed to...certainly long before I would smash shop windows to get food.

[ColoradoMom]

I think people will do it anyhow under the table and tell the law where to put it if caught. That's basically what they did during the depression too.

 

 

 

Yup. And anyone who has the job of regulating these things probably has several dozen more important things to do.