Question for photographers

[Nakia]

I am trying to figure something out. EVERYONE wants a CD. I mean EVERYONE. I only sell CDs within a few of my larger collections because I do not want people to take a Cd and have crappy prints done at Walmart, you know? But I gotta figure out to make this happen because I actually lost a client this week because she couldn't just buy a CD. On one hand, I want to say, who cares, but otoh, I know this is the 21st century, and times have changed. Do you think it makes sense to simply sell CDs of a certain number of images for a certain price and let it go? I know someone who charges for her session, and then offers options such as a CD with your choice of 20 images for whatever price. And these are high res images. It works well for her because after she edits and presents the gallery, she just loads their CD, and she is done. But that is NOT what I want to do. I want to give them prints!! Nothing is more satisfying to me than handing them that package and seeing their face when they see their prints!!

 

So, my next question is what about offering a CD with low res images for internet sharing, etc? I don't even know how to make a Cd of low res images. Can you tell me how? And do you think I should offer that with like 10 of their top images or whatever with each package?

 

I don't want to yell, but WHAT DO I DO??? The top notch (read: outrageously expensive) photographers around here do not just sell a CD with high res images. They sell prints. And some let you buy a CD for a buttload of money after you buy prints. The other "photographers" around here charge you xx for a session, and then xx for a CD, and you're done. I can see a difference in their work, but I don't know if the clients can. I think someone here called them "moms with a camera" the other day, and that made me laugh because it's so true. It seems like everyone with a DSLR is calling themselves a photographer. But I digress...

 

I guess I am stuck between the two extremes, but I am really happy with how I have my packages set up right now. You can see my investment page here. But I just had someone buy the $120 package, and she mentioned she would like to get a CD later. I do not have a CD built into that package, and I don't want to. So what do I do for that? Have her spend more on prints then give her a CD? That seems like more work for me, you know? Another lady I work with wants to do pics in October, but she already told me she wants to buy the smallest package with a CD. HUH? That's not even an option on my site. Am I going to have to just say no?!?!?

 

I am so confused. Do you think you can help me sort this out? How do you all handle this? Please know I am not trying to be a snob. I still have a lot to learn, but I can't do this for nothing, and I do not feel good about just selling CDs for them to print where ever they want.

[Carrie12345]

My personal opinion- offer a high res CD with release form for a butt load of money, and a low res CD for less. People want the CD, and will go to someone who offers it.

 

I do hate when people expect a good CD to be cheap. They simply don't value the work of a good photographer. I worked in a lab just before digital blew up, and people would FREAK on me when I refused to copy professional pictures without a release form. They'd insist that they owned the photograph, and didn't understand the difference between owning the print and owning the rights to the work. It hasn't gotten any clearer in the digital age.

 

Few printing places care about release forms these days, but some still do. So, if you do offer a CD, be sure to have a release set up in case the customer does get refused by their local printer.

[Nakia]

My personal opinion- offer a high res CD with release form for a butt load of money, and a low res CD for less. People want the CD, and will go to someone who offers it.

 

I do hate when people expect a good CD to be cheap. They simply don't value the work of a good photographer. I worked in a lab just before digital blew up, and people would FREAK on me when I refused to copy professional pictures without a release form. They'd insist that they owned the photograph, and didn't understand the difference between owning the print and owning the rights to the work. It hasn't gotten any clearer in the digital age.

 

Few printing places care about release forms these days, but some still do. So, if you do offer a CD, be sure to have a release set up in case the customer does get refused by their local printer.

 

Thank you! Did you check out my page and see what I am offering? Do you think it's reasonable pricing and strategy? I kinda feel like I should charge more for the high res images, but if I do, people will just go to the mall and get some with a CD for a lot less. On one hand, I want to tell them "go on then". I am offering something much different than a 15 minute appt at JC Penney. I spend way too much time capturing the images, editing the images, communicating, etc to give the Cd away for nothing. There are some people around here who charge $100-150 for a session and a CD of high res images. There is no way I am doing that.

 

I really appreciate your support!!!

[Caraway]

I couldn't easily tell what area you are in, and prices are somewhat different depending on where you are working...

 

But, your prices are super low. I don't see how your prices are allowing you to cover your own time and expenses, let alone make a profit. It appears that if I was your client I could have a hi-res disc, plus session, plus prints, for about $300. There is NO way that I would go less than this price.

 

Have you checked out http://www.clickinmoms.com/ ??? It is about $8 per month, but you can join for a single month. I have learned SO much on those forums.

[Nakia]

I couldn't easily tell what area you are in, and prices are somewhat different depending on where you are working...

 

But, your prices are super low. I don't see how your prices are allowing you to cover your own time and expenses, let alone make a profit. It appears that if I was your client I could have a hi-res disc, plus session, plus prints, for about $300. There is NO way that I would go less than this price.

 

Have you checked out http://www.clickinmoms.com/ ??? It is about $8 per month, but you can join for a single month. I have learned SO much on those forums.

 

I am in a small little county in Western NC. There are tons and tons of people who own DSLRs calling themselves photographers that are charging $100-150 for a session and high res CD around here. In fact, one of my dearest friends does a session for $75 and then sells a CD of all her images for $150. And she is trying to make a career out of it. I have told her that it's not going to be possible. Then on the other end, we have photographers in the next county who charge $150-200 for a session and prints starting at $25 (for wallets). I want to serve families who want something different than a generic studio (think Picture People), but can't afford to spend $1000 on a photo shoot. My goal is not to do photography full-time. I already have a job as a nurse and a full-time job homeschooling and managing my home.

 

I am seriously thinking of getting rid of the CDs. Or like Carrie said, charging a LOT of money for one. I want to sell prints. I might, at some point in the near future, up my prices slightly.

 

Thank you for your advice. I will check out that website.

[Nakia]

I couldn't easily tell what area you are in, and prices are somewhat different depending on where you are working...

 

But, your prices are super low. I don't see how your prices are allowing you to cover your own time and expenses, let alone make a profit. It appears that if I was your client I could have a hi-res disc, plus session, plus prints, for about $300. There is NO way that I would go less than this price.

 

Have you checked out http://www.clickinmoms.com/ ??? It is about $8 per month, but you can join for a single month. I have learned SO much on those forums.

 

BTW, do you have a website I can check out? You can pm me if you want. What area are you in?

[Carrie12345]

For a 1-2 hour (or more) on-location shoot in addition to all of the processing, I think $50 is a WAY low fee. I'm pretty out of touch when it comes to printing costs though, so I'm not much help there!

[rfoster]

Something I discovered over the years that is applicable to ALL skilled businesses (not only in my photography but also my hubby's web design and programming) is that there is ALWAYS someone that will work for cheaper or even free in some cases. You have to maintain your professional integrity and offer what you feel comfortable with, even if that means you will occasionally lose business. You also need to feel confident enough in your work to believe that your work is WORTH the money you charge. ETA: And for those establishments who offer more for less, the clients are almost always getting EXACTLY what they paid for.

 

I would not change my policies because you lose 1 or 2 clients. In my experience, these are the same people that will sell your code to other people, or complain that they didn't like the photos and ask for their money back (AFTER you deliver the CD of couse).

 

I'd find a friend or two who are comfortable offering CDs to clients. When a client asks for a CD say 'I'm sorry, I do not offer CDs. I am able to recommend 1 or 2 people who do, here are their names'. This works even better if you can manage to negotiate a kickback of $10-$20 from business you send their way ;-)

[Nakia]

For a 1-2 hour (or more) on-location shoot in addition to all of the processing, I think $50 is a WAY low fee. I'm pretty out of touch when it comes to printing costs though, so I'm not much help there!

 

I think $50 might be on the low side too. I find that I am traveling to some places farther than I thought I would be, so I am going to increase my fee if I have to travel greater than 20 miles from my home. Thank you for reminding me. I just changed it.

 

Something I discovered over the years that is applicable to ALL skilled businesses (not only in my photography but also my hubby's web design and programming) is that there is ALWAYS someone that will work for cheaper or even free in some cases. You have to maintain your professional integrity and offer what you feel comfortable with, even if that means you will occasionally lose business. You also need to feel confident enough in your work to believe that your work is WORTH the money you charge. ETA: And for those establishments who offer more for less, the clients are almost always getting EXACTLY what they paid for.

 

I would not change my policies because you lose 1 or 2 clients. In my experience, these are the same people that will sell your code to other people, or complain that they didn't like the photos and ask for their money back (AFTER you deliver the CD of couse).

 

I'd find a friend or two who are comfortable offering CDs to clients. When a client asks for a CD say 'I'm sorry, I do not offer CDs. I am able to recommend 1 or 2 people who do, here are their names'. This works even better if you can manage to negotiate a kickback of $10-$20 from business you send their way ;-)

 

You are so right! There will always be people who charge less. I had someone call me today to do her maternity pics and asked my prices and everything. Then she told me that she had someone offer to do them for free, and I said, "Well, if that's what you decide to do, just remember you get what you pay for." She booked an appt for Sunday. :D

 

I really think I will just cut the Cds. Or only offer low res so that they can't print them. But then what do you charge for low res images?? UGH!!

Edited August 27, 2010 by Nakia

[Sugarfoot]

I think your packages are great the way you have them set up, and I can totally see your point. If you feel like you're losing people over not having a CD option with every package, maybe you could just add something to your first 2 options like:

"a low-resolution CD is available with this package for an additional...$?"

 

I'm not sure how to do that, either, but I'm sure you could find out. I know it's possible, LOL, because I've had people send me photos that were high resolution and edited, but then when I got them, they were too low res. to print or send to our diocese's newspaper for printing. I had to ask for the "non-miniuaturized" version?:D She had purposely reduced them for speed in sending, but it would have had the same effect on a CD. They looked great on-screen, but could only be printed no bigger than a couple of inches.

[SailorMom]

If you do sell the hi-res cd's - I would accompany it with a list of recommended online or local stores that you feel are up to par. I would also include a warning about cheap prints. If they get crappy prints at the little kiosks, and someone asks who took the pictures - well - they may think it's you're fault!

[Nakia]

I think your packages are great the way you have them set up, and I can totally see your point. If you feel like you're losing people over not having a CD option with every package, maybe you could just add something to your first 2 options like:

"a low-resolution CD is available with this package for an additional...$?"

 

I'm not sure how to do that, either, but I'm sure you could find out. I know it's possible, LOL, because I've had people send me photos that were high resolution and edited, but then when I got them, they were too low res. to print or send to our diocese's newspaper for printing. I had to ask for the "non-miniuaturized" version?:D She had purposely reduced them for speed in sending, but it would have had the same effect on a CD. They looked great on-screen, but could only be printed no bigger than a couple of inches.

Thank you! I just decided to go with my gut and get rid of the high res CDs. I am just not going to do it. Now, to figure out how to include a low res Cd, which I am okay with.

 

If you do sell the hi-res cd's - I would accompany it with a list of recommended online or local stores that you feel are up to par. I would also include a warning about cheap prints. If they get crappy prints at the little kiosks, and someone asks who took the pictures - well - they may think it's you're fault!

 

I have talked to people about print quality, recommended labs, etc, but they just don't listen. They really want to take the CD to Walmart or Rite Aid or whatever and get cheap prints at the instant kiosk. And you are exactly right about people thinking crappy prints are my fault. I use White House Custom Color for printing and they are amazing!!!

[mrs.m]

You want to make sure you put your copyright on the picture! Wal-Mart won't print the photo without a release. I don't know about the kiosks though because I send my stuff to a local printer that does some great work. I like WHCC but they are so costly! Some people will print low-res and not care that it's all pixelated a blurry. Drives me NUTS!!!

 

Are you asking how to create a low-res CD? Do you use Photoshop for editing?

[Nakia]

You want to make sure you put your copyright on the picture! Wal-Mart won't print the photo without a release. I don't know about the kiosks though because I send my stuff to a local printer that does some great work. I like WHCC but they are so costly! Some people will print low-res and not care that it's all pixelated a blurry. Drives me NUTS!!!

 

Are you asking how to create a low-res CD? Do you use Photoshop for editing?

 

I think WHCC's costs are really good, but that might be because I have no option for a local print lab other than Walmart. And I love their free 2-day UPS shipping!!

 

I do use photoshop for editing and yes, I want to know how to create a low-res CD. Do you think that's a good thing to offer?

[Nakia]

I took all the high-res options off, and I feel better already! Whew. I needed your encouragement. Thanks!!

[mrs.m]

I do think it is a good thing to offer. People like to share on Facebook and via email. It can be good for you if you have your name on those photos!

 

In Photoshop what you want to do is go to File<save for web when you have made all adjustments to your photos. You want to save as .jpg and reduce the size so that all diminisions are less than 450-500 px. Then move the quality bar until you see that the file size is 150 kb. You will see the file size under the preview on the left hand side. Then you hit save and you have a low quality picture that is good enough for online but not good enough for printing. This protects your original file as well.

 

Sorry, posting this quickly. DH walked in the door. I'll come later tonight if you have more questions.

[Nakia]

I do think it is a good thing to offer. People like to share on Facebook and via email. It can be good for you if you have your name on those photos!

 

In Photoshop what you want to do is go to File<save for web when you have made all adjustments to your photos. You want to save as .jpg and reduce the size so that all diminisions are less than 450-500 px. Then move the quality bar until you see that the file size is 150 kb. You will see the file size under the preview on the left hand side. Then you hit save and you have a low quality picture that is good enough for online but not good enough for printing. This protects your original file as well.

 

Sorry, posting this quickly. DH walked in the door. I'll come later tonight if you have more questions.

 

Thank you!!!

[OlgaLA]

I am not sure about offering a low-res CD. In my experience, a lot of people will print those, especially those who buy only this CD. It is surprising how many of them just don't care about quality. I would consider selling such a CD only together with either prints of these same images or a high-res CD.

 

Low-res CD for me is just images formatted like for internet posting, I usually watermark them along the bottom.

[Nakia]

I am not sure about offering a low-res CD. In my experience, a lot of people will print those, especially those who buy only this CD. It is surprising how many of them just don't care about quality. I would consider selling such a CD only together with either prints of these same images or a high-res CD.

 

Low-res CD for me is just images formatted like for internet posting, I usually watermark them along the bottom.

 

Here's what I decided to put on my site:

 

"I do not offer high resolution CD's of your images. A low resolution CD of your choice of 10 images will be available for an additional $20 with any collection purchase. The images on the CD will be watermarked and not suitable for printing. They will be perfect for sharing online with your family and friends!"

 

I was advised, and wisely I believe, to charge for even the low-res CD.

[ChristusG]

It's such a fine line to walk. I haven't offered a CD yet. I'm so afraid that someone will take my beautiful photos to Wal-Mart, have them printed on their cruddy printers, and then show them all around saying "Oh, I got these taken at So-and-So Photography." All the while people are wrinkling their noses thinking "And they call themselves a professional? Those pics are horrible!" But it would really just be the printing. People just want a CD to go out and make cheap prints. They have no idea what goes on "behind the scenes." With a photographer, you are really paying for their time, talent, and expertise much above the actual print outs. The actual prints themselves are such a small portion of what you are actually paying for.

 

But then, like you, I think "this is the digital age....people want digital files." I know that I would. I went to Target a few weeks ago to get my kids photos taken. I know, go ahead and gasp LOL! The ONLY reason I went there was because they had the Harley Davidson set up and my FIL LOVES Harley.....so I got the kids pic taken on their Harley set up and I'm giving it to him for Christmas. I didn't want to pay for the digital files but I nearly had a panic attack because I couldn't have access to them LOL. I NEED that digital file in my hands LOL! Actually, I really wanted to tweak their sorry lighting and coloring, but that's a different story LOL. So I do understand someone wanting the digital files.

 

Ugh, it's just such a fine line to walk. I think that what I'll end up doing is offering a CD only if they spend "x" amount of money in prints, and I'll offer the CD for "x" dollars on top of that. I know that some photographers put "x" in the thousands of dollars range....but I want to be more of a "middle of the road" photographer. I want to cater to those like me who want great photos but cannot pay thousands of dollars. I'd probably make the first "x" be $300 or in prints and the second "x" be something like $50. I just can't see offering it for any less than that. And if they just want the CD? Then it's still $350. Yes, this is MUCH less than some photographers.....but I want to cater to those middle of the roaders.

[ChristusG]

And I do the same as what you just posted about. I offer a low resolution CD (that would be blurry if printed), I watermark it, and they are free to post it on message boards, Facebook, etc. I don't charge a whole lot for it, but I do charge.

 

And I LOVE WHCC. I think they have great prices, great quality, and super fast shipping. I print all my pics there, clients pics, greeting cards, Christmas cards, etc.

Edited August 27, 2010 by ChristusG
added something

[Nakia]

It's such a fine line to walk. I haven't offered a CD yet. I'm so afraid that someone will take my beautiful photos to Wal-Mart, have them printed on their cruddy printers, and then show them all around saying "Oh, I got these taken at So-and-So Photography." All the while people are wrinkling their noses thinking "And they call themselves a professional? Those pics are horrible!" But it would really just be the printing. People just want a CD to go out and make cheap prints. They have no idea what goes on "behind the scenes." With a photographer, you are really paying for their time, talent, and expertise much above the actual print outs. The actual prints themselves are such a small portion of what you are actually paying for.

 

But then, like you, I think "this is the digital age....people want digital files." I know that I would. I went to Target a few weeks ago to get my kids photos taken. I know, go ahead and gasp LOL! The ONLY reason I went there was because they had the Harley Davidson set up and my FIL LOVES Harley.....so I got the kids pic taken on their Harley set up and I'm giving it to him for Christmas. I didn't want to pay for the digital files but I nearly had a panic attack because I couldn't have access to them LOL. I NEED that digital file in my hands LOL! Actually, I really wanted to tweak their sorry lighting and coloring, but that's a different story LOL. So I do understand someone wanting the digital files.

 

Ugh, it's just such a fine line to walk. I think that what I'll end up doing is offering a CD only if they spend "x" amount of money in prints, and I'll offer the CD for "x" dollars on top of that. I know that some photographers put "x" in the thousands of dollars range....but I want to be more of a "middle of the road" photographer. I want to cater to those like me who want great photos but cannot pay thousands of dollars. I'd probably make the first "x" be $300 or in prints and the second "x" be something like $50. I just can't see offering it for any less than that. And if they just want the CD? Then it's still $350. Yes, this is MUCH less than some photographers.....but I want to cater to those middle of the roaders.

 

I think our goals are very similar. Don't you have a blog called digital rain photography? I thought I remember that you sell the digital files, but maybe I have you confused with someone else.

[Nakia]

 

And I LOVE WHCC. I think they have great prices, great quality, and super fast shipping. I print all my pics there, clients pics, greeting cards, Christmas cards, etc.

 

Me too!!! I just did newborn pics for my step-sister, and I love that I was able to get her such great prices on multiple 4x6s at such a great quality!!!

[ChristusG]

Yes, I have a Digital Rain Photography blog that I use as my website. I found it was easier to edit and change a blog than a website, so I let my website go.....right now I have on there $100 for one digital negative. That was before I decided to stay more "middle of the road." I'm not currently advertising for clients. I only take word of mouth right now so I'm not shooting all that often. I'm trying to find balance between homeschooling, two kids, keeping up the house, etc LOL. I have put photography on the back burner. All that to say those prices are not current and I'll be changing the digital negative prices LOL.

[Nakia]

Yes, I have a Digital Rain Photography blog that I use as my website. I found it was easier to edit and change a blog than a website, so I let my website go.....right now I have on there $100 for one digital negative. That was before I decided to stay more "middle of the road." I'm not currently advertising for clients. I only take word of mouth right now so I'm not shooting all that often. I'm trying to find balance between homeschooling, two kids, keeping up the house, etc LOL. I have put photography on the back burner. All that to say those prices are not current and I'll be changing the digital negative prices LOL.

 

At least that means I'm not losing my mind, lol. I get what you are saying about keeping up with it all. I'm not planning a full-time photography career. I have 3 girls that I homeschool and try to mother (lol), a part-time job as a nurse, a husband and a house to run too. I love doing photography, but I'm staying middle of the road too. I like where I am with it. And I think I need to just stick to my guns a little more. I have been consistently amazed at what people will ask for when I very clearly have my policies and packages outlined on my website and contract. Fall was my busiest time last year, and I already have 5 shoots booked for October, so I really want to get all this worked out before then.

[The Girls' Mom]

I wouldn't offer CDs. There is nothing worse than someone getting a horrid print done of YOUR work and telling everyone YOU did it. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising, AND the best way to lose business.

 

When I had my business, I only offered a CD if they bought $1000 in prints. (and no, I never had anyone take me up on it). And I also learned to copy protect every single thing I had in a gallery or on the web. I amazed me that folks would make prints off of very, very low res small photo, blow them up and hang them in their living room. :glare:

[Nakia]

I wouldn't offer CDs. There is nothing worse than someone getting a horrid print done of YOUR work and telling everyone YOU did it. Word of mouth is the best form of advertising, AND the best way to lose business.

 

When I had my business, I only offered a CD if they bought $1000 in prints. (and no, I never had anyone take me up on it). And I also learned to copy protect every single thing I had in a gallery or on the web. I amazed me that folks would make prints off of very, very low res small photo, blow them up and hang them in their living room. :glare:

 

This thread has given me "permission" to stop offering high-res CDs. I think I will see how it goes with offering low-res, but only if they buy a package. We'll see. thanks!!