"The best is the enemy of the good"...

[Nan in Mass]

Anybody else struggle with this?

I think this makes it hard to do great books - you look for the perfect curriculum, and meanwhile, your children are growing up. Or foreign language - how many of us don't speak our high school foreign language to our children because we're afraid of them learning bad grammar or a bad accent, when really, learning to speak a language badly is much better than not speaking it at all? How many of us switch math programs in search of the perfect one, or writing programs? And this board makes everything sound SO tempting...

-Nan, planning for next year, ug

[mcconnellboys]

LOL! We're mad, I tell you - mad as hatters! All switch seats (but NO curriculum switching allowed)!

[Carol in Cal.]

We are going on a choral trip this year, which is good. But we have not gone on a family vacation in 4 years, which means that we have given up the best.

 

We love it when we have quiet weeks at home, which is really best. But we keep signing up for other good things like art classes, or a junior great books coop, which are good.

 

We love wild nature, but we let our busyness squeeze out our prior commitment to hike once a week.

 

This is why I go on field trips. It forces me to make time for fun learning. The best, however temporarily, triumphing over the good.

[Jenny in Atl]

Well it's kind of like other things in life - you have to try it to know if you will like it. :tongue_smilie:

[Nan in Mass]

We probably put that sort of best before the good too often. My older one vanishes for months at a time in the middle of the school year to travel, during which he learns tons, of course, but it makes it hard to finish text books. We take off sailing for a month or two every year which is great family time but makes it a bit hard to pay the bills. We excell at doing something other than the housework, which is very nice, but probably sets a horrible example, horrifies guests, and sometimes is pretty inconvenient... I suppose moderation is to be aimed for. I'm hoping CC classes, which are definately putting a crimp in our lifestyle, aren't substituting the good for the best. Sigh. No way to tell but looking back, I guess.

-Nan

[Gwen in VA]

I always feel like homeschooling is like walking a tight-rope -- always leaing a bit too far one way and then overcorrecting and leaning too far the other way.

 

We focus too much on academics...then lean too far focusing on family adventures and fellowship.....then lean too far into AP prep mode......then focus too much on..... etc.

 

I guess that since we are still on the tight-rope, we haven't fallen off yet! :)

[Myrtle]

We take off sailing for a month or two every year

 

 

Sailing and homeschooling in the same thread!

 

So, where have you guys been?

[Nan in Mass]

We always said that if we had a chunk of time, we'd at least go to Nova Scotia, but then my husband lost his job and we actually had that chunk of time, and adventuring into the fog and rocks sounded tiring, so we just did what we always do and sailed the coast of New England, the familiar places we both sailed as children. So much for adventure. Since my husband has now figured out how to juggle a job and extended sailing vacations, we'll have other chances. Also, if we don't go too far, we can stay with my parents and lend them a child to crew their boat during the day. We appreciate their wisdom and company, and they appreciate having strong young crew if something goes wrong and not having to spend the night in the cockpit if the anchoring or weather is if-y. Do you sail?

-Nan

[Colleen in NS]

We always said that if we had a chunk of time, we'd at least go to Nova Scotia, but then my husband lost his job and we actually had that chunk of time, and adventuring into the fog and rocks sounded tiring, so we just did what we always do and sailed the coast of New England, the familiar places we both sailed as children. So much for adventure. Since my husband has now figured out how to juggle a job and extended sailing vacations, we'll have other chances. Also, if we don't go too far, we can stay with my parents and lend them a child to crew their boat during the day. We appreciate their wisdom and company, and they appreciate having strong young crew if something goes wrong and not having to spend the night in the cockpit if the anchoring or weather is if-y. Do you sail?

-Nan

 

Hey, wait a second, ;), Nova Scotia is not all fog and rocks!! :) Summer and fall are just beautiful here. DO let me know if you ever sail this way!

[Gwen in VA]

Read "The Boat Who Wouldn't Float" by Farley Mowat. It's an absolutely hysterical book about sailing around Nova Scotia.

 

Your sailing adventures sounds absolutely wonderful, Nan! Our whole family would like to join you.....

[GailV]

I agree with the OP. Sometimes I get in such a panic about having to have everything perfect before I even start. :willy_nilly: aaaaaah!

 

Some good advice I got early on (during my "oh, I'm going to set up a real cool Montessori environment in our home" phase) was to just do something, even if it isn't quite my perfect vision. You can't just wait and wait until it's all perfect.

 

Hmm, you know, I've heard this advice applied to other things -- like, "oh, I'll be happy once I drop 10 more pounds". Yow, I never knew I was one of those people who thought that way, putting off life until everything's perfect! :blushing:

[Jenn in CA]

 

Some good advice I got early on (during my "oh, I'm going to set up a real cool Montessori environment in our home" phase) was to just do something, even if it isn't quite my perfect vision. You can't just wait and wait until it's all perfect.

 

 

this is what I've been putting into practice.... rather than plan feverishly for *next year* and how much better it will be, make a small change *now*. Make *now* better than it was.

 

"Next year" always looks so good on paper but never turns out quite as good as I thought it would be, or at least requires much tweaking.

[Nan in Mass]

It is the bit right before Nova Scotia. Either that, or you have to cross straight across and hope you don't miss it. One of these days, we're definately going. We drove through NS right before my oldest was born and it was beautiful. I'll let you know if we go, but I'm hoping my folks will sail a few more years with us yet.

-Nan

[Robin in Tx]

This is very true in my house, Nan! I was a little bit of a snob there for a while, refusing to consider anything but the very best of everything... I've had to get over myself big time and realize that a good, decent, second choice program that is completed and done well is a heck of a lot better than a top notch, first choice program that is gathering dust. There's a lot of things we didn't do because we didn't have the time or energy to devote to the very, very best. I've been a fool about this sort of thing. And I spent several years being even MORE a fool thinking that the remedy was to get off my hiney and make sure those BEST things actually got done. I can't do the very best 24/7. I have to outsource the things I can't do at all, be satisifed with a few things less than best (because that's better than nothing!), and save my energy to do the best in just a couple of areas... the areas that I enjoy the most and am most motivated to actually do. I'm learning, and it's getting better, but I wish I were a quicker study. Or that I could have a do over.

 

Thanks for bringing this up. I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles with this to some degree.

 

Robin

[Nan in Mass]

You are right. I've tried for years to just work harder, too, and it wasn't happening, which probably means I can't and need to adjust my ideas. This is something I do all the time with housework, deliberately. I don't know why I never applied it to homeschooling. Thanks.

[HS mom]

I should copy Robin's post and put it on my bedpost to read every morning.

 

Thanks for this thread, Nan. I'm planning for next year, our last year, and I've just come to terms with "practical wisdom". Now...when I'm almost done.

[mama25angels]

I should copy Robin's post and put it on my bedpost to read every morning.

 

Thanks for this thread, Nan. I'm planning for next year, our last year, and I've just come to terms with "practical wisdom". Now...when I'm almost done.

 

 

Me too, Nan you never cease to amaze me with your wisdom, just when i'm feeling like quiting, I come here and you refresh me. Thank you.:grouphug:

[Robin in Tx]

I'm still trying to come to terms with practical wisdom myself, and I tell you... just to get this far, I've had to let go of a LOT of snobbery. In ALL areas of my life. For example, I'll even eat cheese out of can now. Guess what? It's not bad. :).

 

Robin

 

ETA - meant to put this under HS mom's post... oops! And I agree with mama25angels - Nan, you're always a terrific inspiration! Thank you!

[Sunshine State Sue]

a good, decent, second choice program that is completed and done well is a heck of a lot better than a top notch, first choice program that is gathering dust.

 

I have been thinking about this thread for several days. I have chosen a few second choice language arts programs because I was confident that *I* could execute them and *ds* was capable of them and would not fight me on them. He may not be getting a fabulous LA education, but he WILL be competent.

 

I can't do the very best 24/7. I have to outsource the things I can't do at all, be satisfied with a few things less than best (because that's better than nothing!), and save my energy to do the best in just a couple of areas... the areas that I enjoy the most and am most motivated to actually do.

 

While I won't be using Classical Writing and probably won't be using Teaching the Classics (my current dilemna - TtC vs. LL7), I have been loving the time *I* spend on Singapore's Challenging Word Problems, and I'm fired up for Foerster's Algebra. I have to remind myself that those using CW and TtC probably won't be spending the time on math that we will.

 

And the whole reason I have to post about this is you have put into words what has been going on in the back of my mind, and now I can finally let go of the guilt that comes with being a perfectionist.

 

THANK YOU, LADIES! :grouphug:

[Robin in Tx]

Sue, I have the TtC workbook and I watched the DVDs (good friend let me borrow them). It is wonderful as a resource, but I could never use it as an actual program. That's because it's not a program. It's an explanation of a methodology, and a list of generic discussion prompts you can use to implement that methodology - along with a few sample discussions so that you can see the methodology in action.

 

I wouldn't choose between TtC and LL. The real decision is if it would be worth purchasing TtC to use as a resource to enhance LL (or whatever program you end up using). It's really not a stand alone program, in my opinion. Kind of like WTM is not complete program for any given subject, but it is very helpful for guiding HOW to go about using a variety of programs to meet a particular objective. TtC does have a few individual guides, so those are an exception.

 

Personally, I think TtC is worth adding to any program you use, but if cost is an issue, maybe someone will let you borrow the DVDs and you can just get the workbook. I haven't felt a need to watch the DVDs a second time, so I'm glad I was spared the expense. However, watching the DVDs was very important to understanding the workbook and how to implement things. It was very motivating!

 

Hope this all makes sense, and that it helps.

 

Robin

[Carol in Cal.]

Sue, I have the TtC workbook and I watched the DVDs (good friend let me borrow them). It is wonderful as a resource, but I could never use it as an actual program. That's because it's not a program. It's an explanation of a methodology, and a list of generic discussion prompts you can use to implement that methodology - along with a few sample discussions so that you can see the methodology in action.

 

I wouldn't choose between TtC and LL. The real decision is if it would be worth purchasing TtC to use as a resource to enhance LL (or whatever program you end up using). It's really not a stand alone program, in my opinion. Kind of like WTM is not complete program for any given subject, but it is very helpful for guiding HOW to go about using a variety of programs to meet a particular objective. TtC does have a few individual guides, so those are an exception.

 

Personally, I think TtC is worth adding to any program you use, but if cost is an issue, maybe someone will let you borrow the DVDs and you can just get the workbook. I haven't felt a need to watch the DVDs a second time, so I'm glad I was spared the expense. However, watching the DVDs was very important to understanding the workbook and how to implement things. It was very motivating!

 

Hope this all makes sense, and that it helps.

 

Robin

 

 

My impression of it was that it was not all that different from TWTM's literary discussion/elements topics except that it took them a little bit farther and was more explicit about adding worldview/moral questions that lead to judgement-type conclusions. Is that also your impression?

 

Frankly, although it looked really good to me, it didn't look enough better than what is already in TWTM to feel 'worth it' IIKWIM. What do you think?

 

Sometimes I think I should go back to reading TWTM every year like I used to do. Seems like we are always pointing each other back to something in it that I ignored because DD was too young, or just missed somehow. People used to homeschool really, really well without all of these expensive curriculum choices available. Harumph.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I wouldn't choose between TtC and LL. The real decision is if it would be worth purchasing TtC to use as a resource to enhance LL (or whatever program you end up using). It's really not a stand alone program, in my opinion.

 

 

Thanks, Robin. I guess I should have clarified that I am thinking of using TtC to "do" literature with whatever books we happen to be reading for history. My fear is that *I* won't be able to implement the methodology presented in TtC, not to mention that my 12yo ds doesn't want to discuss anything with me anyway. :glare: This is the *perfect* option, since I'd like to integrate history and literature (not to mention writing), but it means more work for me than I am sure that I have the time/energy/desire for.

 

My other option is to use LL7, where everything is laid out for me and the answers are all in black and white (at least that's my impression) in the TM. The only disadvantage is more books to read. This is my *good* option.

 

I think I'll take Carol's advice and go back and read TWTM. Got a page you can direct me to, Carol? ;)

 

Thanks, Ladies.

[Robin in Tx]

Yes, that is my impression, too. I will say, though, for someone who was never taught this way and doesn't know how to begin to teach this way, watching the TTC DVDs really made the light bulb go off for me. I went, "AHA! Now I get it!". I am very glad I got a chance to watch it.

 

What it adds to TWTM content-wise is complete coverage of literary elements, the elements of a plot and how to diagram them, etc., and getting to watch someone use this method to analyze a piece of literature. Really, the DVDs make all the difference, but they are kind of expensive, so borrowing or going in together with a group is the better way to go. I really don't see the need to ever watch the DVDs twice, but in my opinion the workbook by itself without the DVD really would be a waste of money. JMO, though :)

 

I agree, though, about going back to WTM annually and getting back to basics. I can't tell you how many times I've re-glanced at WTM and thought, "Duh... that's what SWB has been saying all long! Why don't I remember reading that before?"

[LisaNY]

I'm still trying to come to terms with practical wisdom myself, and I tell you... just to get this far, I've had to let go of a LOT of snobbery. In ALL areas of my life. For example, I'll even eat cheese out of can now. Guess what? It's not bad. :).

 

Robin

 

LOL!

[LisaNY]

I'm really loving this discussion. I can't wait to see SWB next month at our hs convention. She's doing lectures on the Great Books, writing, How to Read a Book, and more!! I'm *finally* getting to see and hear her in person. :hurray:

[dragons in the flower bed]

We excell at doing something other than the housework, which is very nice, but probably sets a horrible example, horrifies guests, and sometimes is pretty inconvenient... I suppose moderation is to be aimed for.

 

Ah, yes, the look of horror as a guest retreats from my bathroom. I have but three housekeeping goals: 1) don't scare surprise visitors, 2) don't make it too easy for beginning walkers to fall over, 3) don't let anything get spilled on the books.

[Colleen in NS]

I'm really loving this discussion. I can't wait to see SWB next month at our hs convention. She's doing lectures on the Great Books, writing, How to Read a Book, and more!! I'm *finally* getting to see and hear her in person. :hurray:

 

PLEASE take lots of notes and report back here! :) I'd so love to hear her speak (and her mother!!!!) at a convention.....

[Robin in Tx]

Lucky you! Some of those lectures sound new... I don't recall a workshop on How to REad a Book, or the Great Books...

 

Don't miss the "what we'd do differently" talk if it's offered. She doesn't allow it to be recorded, so you won't get to purchase the tape in lieu of attending. Just a heads up.

[Robin in Tx]

I think I understand what you're saying... you don't want to be tied to the books in LL7. I get it now.

 

Sometimes I sorta think that the person who can do a complete literature program with just TTC probably didn't need TTC to begin with, kwim? But you never know... did you see Janice in NJ's video? Something she said really struck me. She said that she finally figured out that doing this stuff a heck of a lot more fun than talking about doing this stuff. You just gotta jump in and do it. Why don't you start with TtC, and if you don't get into a good groove, you can always add LL7 later... I don't think it would be a waste of time or money investing in TtC because you will still use it to discuss all your history related reading. You will benefit from it all the same whether you fold in LL7 or not. I'm sure you'll pick the right thing eventually, though! Let us know what you decide and how it goes! I sure have enjoyed thinking about your dilemna today... it's given me a much needed break from mine :).

 

 

Robin

[Sunshine State Sue]

Sometimes I sorta think that the person who can do a complete literature program with just TTC probably didn't need TTC to begin with, kwim?

Absolutely! And that's definitely not me.

 

But you never know... did you see Janice in NJ's video?

No, but if you want to point me in the direction, I'd be happy to peek at it.

 

Why don't you start with TtC, and if you don't get into a good groove, you can always add LL7 later... I don't think it would be a waste of time or money investing in TtC because you will still use it to discuss all your history related reading.

Robin

I've got a watch on a used one on ebay right now! Guess I ought to keep an eye on the FS boards here as well.

 

Thanks for the ideas. :001_smile:

[Nan in Mass]

So, I'm just curious - have you guys tried TWEM? Or do you just think it isn't going to work? We've found it so easy to implement and so successful that discussions like this leave me wondering if I'm totally missing something everyone else knows exists and wants and TWEM doesn't do, or what?

[Sunshine State Sue]

So, I'm just curious - have you guys tried TWEM? Or do you just think it isn't going to work?

 

I checked out TWEM from the library just a few weeks ago, but quickly felt intimidated. I work 30hrs/wk now (from home) and the time that I have for educating myself is extremely limited. As soon as she talked about spending x (can't remember) min per day, reading, taking notes, etc. I felt overwhelmed.

 

Maybe I ought to try it again. :confused:

[threetreasurs]

So, I'm just curious - have you guys tried TWEM? Or do you just think it isn't going to work? We've found it so easy to implement and so successful that discussions like this leave me wondering if I'm totally missing something everyone else knows exists and wants and TWEM doesn't do, or what?

 

I used TWEM (along with other resources) with my high school lit class and was delighted with how well the students responded.

[Nan in Mass]

Yeah, but what SWB describes in TWEM is the ideal self-education program for adults. High school looks different. We do a quick check of Wikipaedia to see why this work is famous, put the book on a timeline and map, read a bit of the intro so we know something about the author, read the work taking notes if we need to and marking bits we like or disagree with in the margins, read the genre bit in TWEM if we haven't yet this year, go through the questions in TWEM orally together, and then write a paper or do a project. By the time we finish the questions, my children usually have an idea for a paper.

 

Here is what I suggest: Pick a short work to read, like a short story, and read it. Then go read the genre section of TWEM for that work and answer the questions. If that goes well, then try it for something longer. The genre chapters are where she steps you through discussing the work. She does a great job of this! If the longer work goes well, THEN go back and look at the first part of the book, if you want. Mostly, that part is to get self-educators started. You probably already know most of it. Trying it first and then reading afterwards is less intimidating GRIN.

 

-Nan, who does everything backwards