Spinoff of the "I'm so glad I went to college thread"...

[Antonia]

I know that many jobs require a college degree: teachers, engineers, doctors, lawyers... but is anyone else bothered by the fact that many jobs which *require* a degree don't actually demand a degree related to the job? That the degree is only a "foot in the door" and has no real relation to the job at all? I see this as a kind of elitism which presumes that because someone attained a degree they can *think* and *perform* better than someone who didn't. This rubs me wrong for so many reasons, not the least of which is that some of the folks I went to college and graduated with were as dumb as bricks (don't even get me started on the cheating that went on, and the sports scholarship nonsense). Many of the people I worked with professionally were no better, and those people had DEGREES.

 

The job I got right out of college required a non-specific degree, but I actually got the job because of my previous work experience. I learned to do the job on the job; there was nothing I learned in college which helped. My dh's job also required a non-specific degree, but he got his job because he worked at the company while attending college and proved himself a valuable employee. So the degrees were required for... um, what reason exactly?

 

Perhaps I'm off-base, but all these college threads of late have got me thinking. I wouldn't say that I'm terribly UN-happy I went to college (I guess it's nice to be able to say I did it), but did it really improve my life all that much? I can honestly answer no. I don't feel that it expanded my horizons except in the area of psychology, nor did it teach me to think; I already knew how to do that. Would I do it again? Again, I think I can answer no. The few years I worked and the amount of loans I had to repay did not really balance out the four years of sacrifice and hard work. Perhaps if I'd continued to work, I'd feel differently, but this is the path my life took.

 

Anyone else who attended college feel this way? Anyone who did not attend college find the disconnect a little tough to take? Anyone ever lose out on a job they know they could have done because they did not have the degree? Other thoughts?

[MOCA]

I agree with your assessment of a college degree not necessarily preparing or helping you with a job and seeming to not add value relative to the cost. What a college degree generally does do is prove to an employer that you can stick with a goal for a good long while, meet expectations of various environments (classes) and jump through hoops. Almost all of those attributes are generally helpful as a an employee. All cultures seem to have "tickets" that open doors...so many times they are based on economic, physical, intellectual and creative advantages. I wonder if those of us who have the ticket don't realize how much the ticket has allowed us to get what we have. For example, many physically beautiful people don't realize the extent of how well they are treated is based on their appearance until their appearance changes. Reality seems to say my education hasn't brought equal reward relative to the cost but I also don't know how my life would be different without it.

[Antonia]

All cultures seem to have "tickets" that open doors...so many times they are based on economic, physical, intellectual and creative advantages. I wonder if those of us who have the ticket don't realize how much the ticket has allowed us to get what we have.

 

This is exactly what I was trying to say: that the knowlege itself may not be as valuable as the degree as a "ticket" or foot in the door, and that bugs me. It's an awfully expensive ticket. :)

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think it is more than just a ticket. While of course there are always exceptions to the rule, most employers can reasonably expect that someone who went to college knows "how to learn". That's why I was hired at an engineering firm (despite my teaching degree) because they assumed that I could transfer my work ethic and learning skills to a new subject. Is it arbitrary? Sure. But it is also based on some truth. And for the employer who is making a gamble on hiring someone (it can be really hard to fire people these days), anything that makes the gamble a bit "safer" for them is a good thing.

[Ravin]

Well, I for one DO feel that I learned a lot in college, particularly how to look at things from disparate points of view, and how to understand another's POV without necessarily agreeing with it. My understanding of both biology and the human experience were expanded. I look forward eventually to going back to grad school, though likely not until DD and any future children are old enough that it'll be managable for me.

 

I didn't use my degree as a non-specific door opener (about all it's good for job-wise without going on to grad school), I'm working at Wal-Mart where they don't give a flying fig about your schooling beyond high school (and one principal reason I'm working is to pay off my student loans, though they're relatively modest thanks to the G.I. Bill/College fund).

 

I'm working the job I am because my family is my first priority. I knew that would be the case going in to college--I would have stayed in the Navy if I didn't want kids, and I knew I'd want to breastfeed and AP and homeschool when I had kids, so having kids while IN the service wasn't a good idea.

 

I think learning for it's own sake is worthwhile, and while I learned plenty on my own before going to college, it was nice to get paid to learn for a while.

 

I'd definitely do it again. Though not this year, the thought of doing another paper makes me cringe a bit.

[LibraryLover]

I actually found college to be intellectually stimulating. :001_smile: It felt exciting. I loved it.

 

My oldest studying government and history. He's taking a Russian history class this semester that he is so enjoying. He sounded postively giddy about it the last time we spoke.

 

I don't think college is for everyone , I don't think everyone needs college, and I think sometimes people don't get a good fit, college-wise.

[LibraryLover]

I'd definitely do it again. Though not this year, the thought of doing another paper makes me cringe a bit.

 

 

Oh gosh, yes. When I read Susan's blog, my head feels like exploding. I think it's fantastic and we all benefit, but wow. Just wow. Imgaine getting a PhD after having 4 kids. That's impressive!

[Antonia]

Maybe it was just my major... mind-numbingly boring.

[Colleen]

My oldest is away at college studying government and history. He's taking a Russian history class this semester that he is so enjoying. He sounded postively giddy about it the last time we spoke.

 

I so enjoyed all my college coursework in Russian history and language. My professors were passionate about the subject matter and their enthusiasm was contagious. What's the primary text your son is using for his class? If you happen to find out, can you let me know? Just curious.:)

[Harriet Vane]

I know that many jobs require a college degree: teachers, engineers, doctors, lawyers... but is anyone else bothered by the fact that many jobs which *require* a degree don't actually demand a degree related to the job? That the degree is only a "foot in the door" and has no real relation to the job at all? I see this as a kind of elitism which presumes that because someone attained a degree they can *think* and *perform* better than someone who didn't. This rubs me wrong for so many reasons, not the least of which is that some of the folks I went to college and graduated with were as dumb as bricks (don't even get me started on the cheating that went on, and the sports scholarship nonsense). Many of the people I worked with professionally were no better, and those people had DEGREES.

 

The job I got right out of college required a non-specific degree, but I actually got the job because of my previous work experience. I learned to do the job on the job; there was nothing I learned in college which helped. My dh's job also required a non-specific degree, but he got his job because he worked at the company while attending college and proved himself a valuable employee. So the degrees were required for... um, what reason exactly?

 

Perhaps I'm off-base, but all these college threads of late have got me thinking. I wouldn't say that I'm terribly UN-happy I went to college (I guess it's nice to be able to say I did it), but did it really improve my life all that much? I can honestly answer no. I don't feel that it expanded my horizons except in the area of psychology, nor did it teach me to think; I already knew how to do that. Would I do it again? Again, I think I can answer no. The few years I worked and the amount of loans I had to repay did not really balance out the four years of sacrifice and hard work. Perhaps if I'd continued to work, I'd feel differently, but this is the path my life took.

 

Anyone else who attended college feel this way? Anyone who did not attend college find the disconnect a little tough to take? Anyone ever lose out on a job they know they could have done because they did not have the degree? Other thoughts?

 

I am a FIRM believer in the idea that college is for some and not for others. As one who comes from a family of blue collar workers and is the first to get a degree, I really am comfortable with non-college concepts such as vocational training. For that reason, I think it's a little silly for certain jobs to require a degree when the skills can be attained in different (sometimes better) ways. In that sense, the degree as a foot in the door is bothersome.

 

BUT

 

On the other hand, there were a lot of skills learned and used in college that DO make a difference in a person's ability to do certain kinds of jobs. A very simple example would be research papers. The fact that I had to do myriad research papers on topics both within and separate from my major over the course of four years is a definite advantage to certain kinds of jobs. In that sense, YES, a college degree can be an indication that certain kinds of skills were learned and practiced. I gave just one example, but there are certainly more.

 

So the issue is not whether or not a college degree indicates different skills or not, the issue is whether or not it is appropriate to require a degree for that specific job. For some jobs, yes, it should be a foot in the door. For other jobs, it may not really be necessary to require that. In that sense I would agree that there are some that value a college degree too much as it relates to the particular job for which it is required.

 

One final note, on the idea of the cheating and so forth that can occur--I don't think it is fair to devalue degrees in general simply because some people choose to be dishonest. There are still plenty of other people who did work hard, and honestly, for their degree.

[Rhonda in TX]

I actually went as an accounting major, but I took Calc I my first semester and was absolutely inspired by my professor. I switched my major and loved it.

 

When I graduated, I got a job that, while it did not require a specific math degree, it did require a scientific degree. I went from that position to computer programming.

 

More than that, though, my college years were some of the best of my life. I went away to a small school and was able to get my feet wet in independence while still having a safety cushion. I made my best-friend-for-life there. I met people from all over the world that I never would have met.

 

To me, college is more than just getting a degree. It's a valuable life experience, in the right circumstances.

 

I don't look down on anybody who didn't go to college, but I do believe they missed something. I think this is true for any experience we've had in our lives that was meaningful. Somebody who climbed Mt. Everest (something I have absolutely no desire to ever do) might feel the same.

[Aubrey]

I come from a long line of emotional thinkers. The writing side of my degree in English *has* taught me to think. When I hear an argument that is not logically sound, I can pick it apart, knowing which part of the argument is weak AND that that doesn't nec. make it untrue, just in need of further evidence, kwim?

 

Of course, this has helped my writing and my teaching, but it can help in relationships as well. (Well, as long as you don't *tell* the other person how illogical & emotional they're being, lol! ;))

 

It can also help in learning other subjects. I know how to break the ideas down. Before college? Honestly, if I got a bad grade on a paper, I thought the teacher was stupid. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but it's true. Now if I don't get the "grades" I expect on something, I have some tools for reevaluating. Although sometimes I still come to the conlcusion that the other guy was stupid. (I mean, don't we all?)

 

Was it worth the money? Probably not. But...for *me*...I can't imagine not going. My personality is very much tied up in books, & while I often feel like a fish out of water, college was a nice reprieve in many ways. The careers it opens up for *me* will offer the same kind of peace, kwim?

[Antonia]

Thanks for responding, all. It was interesting to read your replies and also to find I'm not the only one who feels this way at times.

[Nestof3]

Antonia,

 

I agree with you. I think college itself is rather idolized in our society.