Classical Conversations

[ourjourneys]

What is the benefit of joining this group? Isn't someone making a profit and couldn't one easily get their own memory work? :glare: Please enlighten me...

[ourjourneys]

:lurk5:

[mommydearest]

Yes, you could plan your own memory work, but for my family CC has been so much more! There is a cost, but it is minimal for what we get. We have an awesome community and we look forward to attending every Friday. In addition to memory work, we do weekly science projects/experiments, art projects and appreciation, music lessons and appreciation, physical education, map work, songs, etc. Not to mention lunch and fellowship with good people. It has been a great supplement to our own program and it has been nice knowing that IF I can't get to science, art, etc. at home that it will get covered at CC on Friday. It is a break from our usual routine and we like the change of pace. My oldest will also be in Essentials of the English Language in the fall, so she will also be studying grammar, IEW, and spending some time playing math games.

Edited July 6, 2010 by mommydearest

[ourjourneys]

Ok, so it really is a supplement to a core... We are members of the YMCA (pe, swim, family activities, etc) and do a homeschool co-op (science, art and swim lesson) there and participate in lots of programs with other homeschoolers. I also have a science program that I love to use at home... I just can not see spending 350 per child (I have 4 of those) for a co-op that does not teach everything... thanks!

[Staceyshoe]

We're planning to join CC this coming year. I was so impressed at the open house. We could do our own memory work at home, but I think CC has much more to offer our family than memory work. (Though it will save me time finding cute songs and things to go with the memory work, and I think the other kids will be very motivating for ds to learn the memory work.)

 

I absolutely love that he will be doing oral presentations every week. Speaking skills are very important to our family, and it's something that would be challenging without the classroom setting. I think ds will truly benefit from a co-op because he loves the classroom situation and comraderie that develops. He has special learning challenges and doesn't know other hs'ed kids, so this will help normalize his experience instead of making him feel like an odd ball. Per hour, CC costs significantly less than most co-ops in our area.

 

During the open house, I actually found myself with tears in my eyes more than once. (This is very unusual for me, as I'm not a very emotional person.) Watching the kids having fun yet being respectful and responsible just really impacted me. I kept thinking, "If ds grow up to become like these kids, I will be so proud of him. This is what I want for him in life." There's no price for that kind of influence on your children.

 

Not all groups have the same feel, and it's not right for all families. I feel like this was the best decision I made for ds this year (other than the decision to hs). If you go to observe, you'll get a much better feel for what it's all about than you will just by reading online.

[angela in ohio]

You can search "Classical Conversations" on this board and get many, many conversations about it from the last few years. You will find some great, long conversations about whether it is worth the cost, whether you can do it at home better, whether it is worth the time or not...

 

I don't think you can judge it as a whole. Each group will have a different level of quality, depending on the leadership locally and the families involved. It is best to visit your local campus for a better idea of whether it is a good choice.

[sunnyca]

I spent 3 days at a practicum where Leigh Borstin was the keynote. I do not do CC but was exploring the possibility for my second daughter. The social interaction that people describe drew me to consider this approach though I've been teaching my version of classical education for 12 years.

 

Leigh makes a good case for classical education and she has formulated a plan that makes it possible for many homeschoolers to follow the process without too much research, planning and teaching of their own. I kept hearing that the coursework is "rigorous" and "challenging" but I did not necessarily see that in the curriculum chosen. My guess is that there is an intense amount of work and when I asked about certain gaps or my perception that the curriculum was a little light for classical, I was told that you need to supplement.

 

It was a 3 days well spent and I do not argue that this program is a benefit to many families. I decided it is not for me. If you have a social network for you and your kids already, you enjoy planning and being in control of what you teach (I love this part) and do not need step by step direction; you do not need CC. By the end of the three days when people asked if I'd join, I joked that I am more like a cat than a dog. I prefer no leashes and I found CC too restrictive in that it dictates my load and takes up my time but not comprehensive enough to cover what I want to teach.

 

Hope that helps,

~~Sunny

 

P.S. Someone IS making a huge profit. It is an ingenious marketing plan and I mean that in the most complimentary way...truly amazing. :)

[mommydearest]

...I don't think you can judge it as a whole. Each group will have a different level of quality, depending on the leadership locally and the families involved. It is best to visit your local campus for a better idea of whether it is a good choice.

 

:iagree: We have several CC programs in our area and I don't think I'd be as happy if we were not in the group that we are in. I've often heard that the community definitely makes or breaks your experience. Our director prefers to refer to our group as a community, rather than a co-op. Although we are involved in many other things (Y, extra curriculars, camps, etc.), I like that my kids are building relationships with others that they will continue to see regularly. In other programs, the children are always coming and going and you never know who is going to be in the class. I don't mind this, but I like that we also have a place to learn and have fun where my kids are surrounded by people they know and see on a regular basis. A couple of other things I like are the weekly oral presentations, which have been worth it in every possible way for my kids. And, I like that the adults have a monthly night out, which is a lot of fun! I admit that I was not excited going into the program and I was very skeptical. While I still don't think it is for everyone, it has proven been the right choice for us at this point in our lives.

[angela in ohio]

Our director prefers to refer to our group as a community, rather than a co-op.

 

She better! :D CC Directors are taught not to use the term co-op, as CC is not a co-op.

[mommydearest]

She better! :D CC Directors are taught not to use the term co-op, as CC is not a co-op.

 

Why is that? Is it because there is so much parental involvement? What is the big deal? :tongue_smilie:

[Renee in NC]

Why is that? Is it because there is so much parental involvement? What is the big deal? :tongue_smilie:

 

It's a business. You pay tuition. In a co-op, you share teaching duties with other parents. In CC, your dc are taught by trained tutors.

[angela in ohio]

Why is that? Is it because there is so much parental involvement? What is the big deal? :tongue_smilie:

 

In a co-op, by definition, every is working cooperatively, and there is rarely much money involved, other than fees for supplies. Historically, this is how most homeschool groups operated. Each mom would be required to staff a class or two or clean up, but no one charged for their services, they just traded.

 

In CC, the Tutors and Directors are paid. It is a business. According to CC, there is training and accountability that you won't find in a co-op (among other things; there is a whole chart available whcih compares CC to co-ops.) Moms (or dads) pay instead of trading teaching a class for the teaching of others.

[VA6336]

In a co-op the parents are volunteering and doing all the preparation, work and presentation of material. In CC, the director and the tutors are paid, relieving most of the parents of that load. However, the director and tutors are 99% of the time parents of children in the programs. It gives a higher expectation and level of accountability than in a co-op where parents can easily feel overwhelmed and taken advantage of.

 

As far as who is making money: CC receives a registration fee for each student. There is a supply fee which stays local and is used for everything from pencils, science/art supplies to toilet paper (if your location is stringent), then the tuition is split between the director and tutors. The Challenge level is a little different, I am speaking of the Foundations and Essentials programs here. I was a tutor last year and will be a Foundations/Essentials director this year and made enough last year to pay for my children to be involved in the program (I have two) and to pay for our homeschooling materials on top of that. This year it'll probably cover music lessons for the year, too (for which I am grateful). So, not big bucks but enough to make me want to work really hard if the motivation of the community wasn't enough.

 

Other threads have great information from all sorts of folks who love, hate and are lukewarm about CC.

[angela in ohio]

I spent 3 days at a practicum where Leigh Borstin was the keynote. I do not do CC but was exploring the possibility for my second daughter. The social interaction that people describe drew me to consider this approach though I've been teaching my version of classical education for 12 years.

 

Leigh makes a good case for classical education and she has formulated a plan that makes it possible for many homeschoolers to follow the process without too much research, planning and teaching of their own. I kept hearing that the coursework is "rigorous" and "challenging" but I did not necessarily see that in the curriculum chosen. My guess is that there is an intense amount of work and when I asked about certain gaps or my perception that the curriculum was a little light for classical, I was told that you need to supplement.

 

It was a 3 days well spent and I do not argue that this program is a benefit to many families. I decided it is not for me. If you have a social network for you and your kids already, you enjoy planning and being in control of what you teach (I love this part) and do not need step by step direction; you do not need CC. By the end of the three days when people asked if I'd join, I joked that I am more like a cat than a dog. I prefer no leashes and I found CC too restrictive in that it dictates my load and takes up my time but not comprehensive enough to cover what I want to teach.

 

Hope that helps,

~~Sunny

 

P.S. Someone IS making a huge profit. It is an ingenious marketing plan and I mean that in the most complimentary way...truly amazing. :)

 

:iagree:

 

I started a campus in the hope of helping other local homeschoolers who wanted a classical or more rigorous education. In the end, I found that it wasn't helping them learn about classical or strive to be more rigorous. It made them *think* that they were doing classical education and *feel* like they were rigorous (because they were busy, busy, busy,) but without having to learn anything about it. It also eliminated the beauty of classical education: tailoring an education to the gifts, desires, and future of the individual child.

 

I won't go into the financial aspect, though I could write volumes. There are definitely ups and downs, depending on where in the hierarchy you are. I will say that a Director on a full campus will make a small fortune. :)

 

Leigh Bortins IS a great speaker, though. I don't think it's possible to actually duplicate what she passionately speaks about in mass quanitities successfully, though.

[ourjourneys]

Thank you to all of you... I run away fast from leashes so I can see that this is not for me. I guess this is where my 'non-conformist' nature steps in and says, "nope not for me"... Thanks to all of you!

[FlutterbyMommy]

Michelle, I am a non-conformist as well, so I understand. My director is very flexible, which makes my "outside the box" thinking easier to be a tutor there. There is a "plum line" to adhere to, but it is really what you make of it.

 

As for the co-op term, at the practicum the tutor trainer explained a part of the difference. Mainly, a co-op has parents teaching a specific subject, where a tutor at CC is teaching all subjects. Also, co-ops are more extra-curricular in nature having crafts, music, and more creative subjects to explore. CC covers all of the core topics (Latin, math, science, English, history, etc.). It does cover fine arts and science experiments as well.

 

As for the cost, it hasn't been terrible for us because I have a singleton. Considerring the supply cost, I don't see huge profits being earned by directors and tutors. Being a tutor will help offset my costs annually and help me purchase some supplies for teaching my child, but to be used in class as well. I don't see it being about money really. It is about the experience.

 

The structure of CC has kept me on track and it is a nice supplement. My daughter loves the interaction and it helps her to set and achieve goals. I imagine she will be interested in Memory master in the coming years (she is still just 5) and achieve the memory level some of the older students have now.

 

At home, we are very eclectic. I am pretty relaxed in much of what i do. But 1 day a week (6 weeks at a time), we have a morning with structure and fellowship. It is a good balance.

[mommydearest]

And thanks for clarifying the community vs. co-op issue! Never been in a co-op, so that always confused me a little.

 

I would just like to add that while I think what CC offers is all good (because I've seen its fruition in my own children), I will say that any given family can do as little or as much as they want with it. We, by no means, felt overloaded or bogged down by the curriculum. We definitely didn't take it as seriously as some people, so it's safe to say that the most positive aspect for us has been social. We started out in a tight, private school community that we loved and CC gives us just enough of that "community" feeling to be satisfied. The "cherry on top", so to speak.

 

Good Luck!

[Leola]

:iagree:

 

I started a campus in the hope of helping other local homeschoolers who wanted a classical or more rigorous education. In the end, I found that it wasn't helping them learn about classical or strive to be more rigorous. It made them *think* that they were doing classical education and *feel* like they were rigorous (because they were busy, busy, busy,) but without having to learn anything about it. It also eliminated the beauty of classical education: tailoring an education to the gifts, desires, and future of the individual child.

 

I won't go into the financial aspect, though I could write volumes. There are definitely ups and downs, depending on where in the hierarchy you are. I will say that a Director on a full campus will make a small fortune. :)

 

Leigh Bortins IS a great speaker, though. I don't think it's possible to actually duplicate what she passionately speaks about in mass quanitities successfully, though.

 

I am non conformist. And every year I reevaluate the leash of CC. Some days I want to run free. I would personally prefer to be completely free - I am much more like a cat than a dog too. But my kids love it, and they beg to come back every year. It has been good for us.

 

The above really surprised me - This has not at all been our experience. Our community has learned a lot about classical education. Our community discourages that busyness. I sorry that was your experience but that is very different from my experience.

[Another Lynn]

I spent 3 days at a practicum where Leigh Borstin was the keynote. I do not do CC but was exploring the possibility for my second daughter. The social interaction that people describe drew me to consider this approach though I've been teaching my version of classical education for 12 years.

 

Leigh makes a good case for classical education and she has formulated a plan that makes it possible for many homeschoolers to follow the process without too much research, planning and teaching of their own. I kept hearing that the coursework is "rigorous" and "challenging" but I did not necessarily see that in the curriculum chosen. My guess is that there is an intense amount of work and when I asked about certain gaps or my perception that the curriculum was a little light for classical, I was told that you need to supplement.

 

It was a 3 days well spent and I do not argue that this program is a benefit to many families. I decided it is not for me. If you have a social network for you and your kids already, you enjoy planning and being in control of what you teach (I love this part) and do not need step by step direction; you do not need CC. By the end of the three days when people asked if I'd join, I joked that I am more like a cat than a dog. I prefer no leashes and I found CC too restrictive in that it dictates my load and takes up my time but not comprehensive enough to cover what I want to teach.

 

Hope that helps,

~~Sunny

 

P.S. Someone IS making a huge profit. It is an ingenious marketing plan and I mean that in the most complimentary way...truly amazing. :)

 

:iagree:

Your analysis is excellent and well stated!

[crimsonkelley]

I REALLY wanted to do CC until I talked with the director about it. I spent hours looking at all the information and discussing the program. I could be completely wrong, but what was relayed to me is that memorizing all that information was the program. (At least 1st-6th).

 

I kept thinking - this can't be right - surely not. What other books do you read - what supplements do you use? There were none. Other groups could be different.

 

The director had her daughter sing one of the songs about the Greek Gods she learned. She was very proud of her. That was great, but did they discuss them further? No - right now was just focused on memorization. Well, my kids know all the Greek/Roman Gods, not b/c they memorized them - but b/c we read about them and talked about them.

 

I walked away from that meeting completely stunned. I so wanted to be connected with other parents who were likeminded. However, I couldn't get over the fact that what the director showed me (the VP cards, cds, printed forms) was all that was being covered. That was the only focus!

 

When I asked her - could I as a tutor talk about the history or background of what we were memorizing - she said there really wouldn't be time. Maybe I could say something breifly, but that wasn't a priority now. I know parents can cover whatever they want at home, but if the director is basically starting a new group and not using any additional materials - aren't alot of the people joining going to do as she is doing???

 

Please tell me not all groups are like that and that groups do more.

Edited July 8, 2010 by crimsonkelley
Added a sentence

[mommydearest]

Please tell me not all groups are like that and that groups do more.

 

Not all groups are like that and groups do more. MUCH more. At least that has been our experience.

[angela in ohio]

I REALLY wanted to do CC until I talked with the director about it. I spent hours looking at all the information and discussing the program. I could be completely wrong, but what was relayed to me is that memorizing all that information was the program. (At least 1st-6th).

 

I kept thinking - this can't be right - surely not. What other books do you read - what supplements do you use? There were none. Other groups could be different.

 

The director had her daughter sing one of the songs about the Greek Gods she learned. She was very proud of her. That was great, but did they discuss them further? No - right now was just focused on memorization. Well, my kids know all the Greek/Roman Gods, not b/c they memorized them - but b/c we read about them and talked about them.

 

I walked away from that meeting completely stunned. I so wanted to be connected with other parents who were likeminded. However, I couldn't get over the fact that what the director showed me (the VP cards, cds, printed forms) was all that was being covered. That was the only focus!

 

When I asked her - could I as a tutor talk about the history or background of what we were memorizing - she said there really wouldn't be time. Maybe I could say something breifly, but that wasn't a priority now. I know parents can cover whatever they want at home, but if the director is basically starting a new group and not using any additional materials - aren't alot of the people joining going to do as she is doing???

 

Please tell me not all groups are like that and that groups do more.

 

That is CC's model. Tutors cover a lot of memory work in just a half hour. There isn't enough time to go into depth, and CC encourages the parents to go into more depth at home. They provide a list of suggested books for parents to read at home for each week's topic.

 

There is more to Foundations than just memory work. Students also do an art or music project, a presentation, and a science demonstration or experiment.