MUS through highschool?

[Martha in VA]

Has anyone used MUS through highschool? If so, could you give me a review?

[tofuscramble]

:bigear: I have a 7th grader who LOVES MUS, we don't plan on switching, since it took this long to find a math program he actually enjoys. :)

[Martha in VA]

:bigear: I have a 7th grader who LOVES MUS, we don't plan on switching, since it took this long to find a math program he actually enjoys. :)

 

 

How long has he been using it?

[tofuscramble]

He has been using it for almost 2 years now (I have only just realised it has been that long!) but prior to finding it, we were changing math curriculum every few months and he was getting nowhere. Now we are finally making progress. :)

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Not there yet. DD is using MUS and we don't plan on changing. However, I'm worried about the level of word problems. Locally the word problems are very strong. In fact, a 3hr exam would consist of ONE word problem to solve. MUS will not get DD ready for that, so we'll be complementing it at the high school level (and possibly before that).

DS dropped MUS pretty quickly. He did pre-algebra in less than 2 months when he was 10, and asked me for something else.

[Alyce]

I didn't realize it at the time but it really helped my dd when she got to college. with MUS they don't use a calculator, it's all done in your head up to Pre-Calculus. When she got to college she had to take a math placement test and they weren't allowed to use calculators since she had used MUS she had no problem with the test. The programs are set up the same way as the elementary years. I think they're might have been two times when the manipulatives were called for but we didn't need them so I'm not use I'd buy the manipulatives they recommend for Alg 1. I will warn you that by the high school years they expect the student to be able to do some extrapolating so there will be a few times when they give a problem in the exercises that they haven't explained how to do. It was a surprise when it first happened but we were able to figure out they answer when we sat down and really looked at what they were asking. It doesn't happen very often but it does occasionally. I would also use the honors books at this time because they give more word problems. They're a little hard to work in but I'd do it when you can. I was very nervous about using MUS through HS after all the bad things I had heard but in the end we were very glad we did. My kids loved it much better, understood it much better and had no problems in college. I don't have any problem recommending it.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Not there yet. DD is using MUS and we don't plan on changing. However, I'm worried about the level of word problems. Locally the word problems are very strong. In fact, a 3hr exam would consist of ONE word problem to solve. MUS will not get DD ready for that, so we'll be complementing it at the high school level (and possibly before that).

DS dropped MUS pretty quickly. He did pre-algebra in less than 2 months when he was 10, and asked me for something else.

Have you thought of adding LOF for more word problems?

 

We're doing it all the way through and are adding LOF for more word problems/real life math. I don't think it's absolutely necessary to do so but if word problems are a concern I'd add LOF, obviously;):lol:

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Have you thought of adding LOF for more word problems?

 

I've got a few years still before I need to worry. Right now, the plan is to use Creative Problem Solving for my elementary-age DD.

 

Nothing is set in stone though.

 

As for DS who is high school level, he's now taking his math classes with Art of Problem Solving.

[Peela]

:bigear: I have a 7th grader who LOVES MUS, we don't plan on switching, since it took this long to find a math program he actually enjoys. :)

 

Ds14 is thriving with MUS- I do wish I had used it before, but it didnt line up with our Australian system and I didnt want to do it the MUS way...now, I wish I had, but its ok. He is dong Pre Algebra. I didnt but the manipulatives because he wont use them anyway. He is doing well.

He is not an academic kid and he has had a lot of issues with how the maths is presented on the page. MUS seems to be a good balance - not busy, decent sized print, good number of questions.

[Martha in VA]

I am really encouraged by all of your replies. Thank you!

[WTMindy]

I will give you a math teacher's review. :) There are things I really like about MUS and things I really don't like. I think that Steve is a sound math teacher and I think he has done an amazing job making math accessible to homeschooling families who aren't strong in math. However, the program is just NOT very rigorous. I know that even as I say this there will be students who have done well in college math or placement tests, but as much as I WANT to love it, I can't get totally on board with it. I think there are a lot of topics that get left out of the book, and there are topics that he spends a whole lesson on that make NO sense to me. (For example, in Pre-Algebra, he spends TWO lessons on converting Farenheit to Celcius and Celcius to Farneheit. That is such a specific application that it seems crazy to me to spend 2 out of 30 lessons on this!) And, there are very few higher level thinking questions. And, the problems that he gives are usually ones that work out evenly. In a more rigorous Algebra 2 course you would be completing the square where the answers are sometimes messy fractions. In MUS, the problems are usually the easier versions.

 

I do really like how the lessons are set up with both mastery and then the spiral review built in. I think this is an effective way to set it up.

 

I don't mean to discourage anyone because I know that MUS is very easy to use and a life-saver for some. I even used it last year in a co-op class that I tought because it really lends itself to that. But, I am going to be switching to the new Holt book for my co-op next year because I just don't feel good about the level of rigor that I'm giving my students.

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

mindy, I'm in total agreement with you. MUS is a good program but it's not a complete program by far.

[Martha in VA]

I will give you a math teacher's review. :) There are things I really like about MUS and things I really don't like. I think that Steve is a sound math teacher and I think he has done an amazing job making math accessible to homeschooling families who aren't strong in math. However, the program is just NOT very rigorous. I know that even as I say this there will be students who have done well in college math or placement tests, but as much as I WANT to love it, I can't get totally on board with it. I think there are a lot of topics that get left out of the book, and there are topics that he spends a whole lesson on that make NO sense to me. (For example, in Pre-Algebra, he spends TWO lessons on converting Farenheit to Celcius and Celcius to Farneheit. That is such a specific application that it seems crazy to me to spend 2 out of 30 lessons on this!) And, there are very few higher level thinking questions. And, the problems that he gives are usually ones that work out evenly. In a more rigorous Algebra 2 course you would be completing the square where the answers are sometimes messy fractions. In MUS, the problems are usually the easier versions.

 

I do really like how the lessons are set up with both mastery and then the spiral review built in. I think this is an effective way to set it up.

 

I don't mean to discourage anyone because I know that MUS is very easy to use and a life-saver for some. I even used it last year in a co-op class that I tought because it really lends itself to that. But, I am going to be switching to the new Holt book for my co-op next year because I just don't feel good about the level of rigor that I'm giving my students.

 

Thank you so much for this very frank review. What grades are you teaching in your co-op? And do you feel the same about MUS for the primary grades? Thanks, Mindy.

[Hunter's Moon]

I am using MUS for Pre-Calc, and I agree, the word problems are really easy. I thought it was strange there were only 30 lessons for a whole year.

 

I am using a Lial's math book along with it for extra practice. The worksheets take me about 20 minutes to do and I feel high school math should take at least 45 minutes so I use Lial's to help me add some bulk to the program.

 

I really do like how the lessons are taught though. I *need* to see something in order to learn it. Chalkdust was too expensive for us, and then we found MUS. I really like it. I am only on my third lesson, but I like it a lot and supplementing Lial's math book with it makes me feel better about adding bulk also.

 

HTH!

[Corraleno]

I will give you a math teacher's review. :) There are things I really like about MUS and things I really don't like. I think that Steve is a sound math teacher and I think he has done an amazing job making math accessible to homeschooling families who aren't strong in math. However, the program is just NOT very rigorous. I know that even as I say this there will be students who have done well in college math or placement tests, but as much as I WANT to love it, I can't get totally on board with it. I think there are a lot of topics that get left out of the book, and there are topics that he spends a whole lesson on that make NO sense to me. (For example, in Pre-Algebra, he spends TWO lessons on converting Farenheit to Celcius and Celcius to Farneheit. That is such a specific application that it seems crazy to me to spend 2 out of 30 lessons on this!) And, there are very few higher level thinking questions. And, the problems that he gives are usually ones that work out evenly. In a more rigorous Algebra 2 course you would be completing the square where the answers are sometimes messy fractions. In MUS, the problems are usually the easier versions.

 

I do really like how the lessons are set up with both mastery and then the spiral review built in. I think this is an effective way to set it up.

 

I don't mean to discourage anyone because I know that MUS is very easy to use and a life-saver for some. I even used it last year in a co-op class that I tought because it really lends itself to that. But, I am going to be switching to the new Holt book for my co-op next year because I just don't feel good about the level of rigor that I'm giving my students.

:iagree: with all of this.

 

I have copies of many Algebra I texts, including MUS, TT, Lial's, Jacobs, Life of Fred, Chalkdust (Larson), Foerster, and Art of Problem Solving, and I would consider MUS the least rigorous of all those programs.

 

Jackie

[tofuscramble]

Great info. I've heard "its not rigorous enough" before but I always think the proof is in the pudding. I haven't heard of many people who wish they hadn't used it but I hear of many who are glad they did.

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Great info. I've heard "its not rigorous enough" before but I always think the proof is in the pudding. I haven't heard of many people who wish they hadn't used it but I hear of many who are glad they did.

:iagree:One thing I've noticed is that while it's breadth might not be as broad as other programs my children REALLY know what has been covered, which allows them to tackle problems that are more difficult than what has been covered in MUS. For them it has laid a very solid foundation that has made expanding on that foundation easier. This is why I would rather stay with MUS and supplement with another curriculum (LOF). I started doing that at the end of this school year so we haven't been doing it long but they seem to complement each other very well.

[Corraleno]

Great info. I've heard "its not rigorous enough" before but I always think the proof is in the pudding. I haven't heard of many people who wish they hadn't used it but I hear of many who are glad they did.

I think that's largely the result of self-selection. If you rarely see posts saying "I wish I hadn't used MUS, it just wasn't strong enough for my child" perhaps it's because parents who are looking for a rigorous math curriculum don't choose MUS to begin with. I don't see many people who chose Foerster's or Dolciani saying they really regretted it and wished they'd used MUS either. ;)

 

I think MUS combined with another program, like Life of Fred, would make a complete program. On it own, however, it doesn't have the breadth, depth, or rigor of a "typical" HS-level math program — which may be absolutely perfect for kids who struggle with math. Whether it's "rigorous enough" for any given child really depends on what their abilities and goals are.

 

Jackie

[HollyDay]

We attempted to use MUS for Algebra 1. It did not work well for us. Dd needs more review (a la Saxon) than MUS offers. It seemed to focus so heavily on graphing in the beginning that the other aspects of an algebra program seemed to be forgotten. There was some review, but like I said, dd needed more.

[Peela]

I am sure WTMindy is correct- for us, my son struggles with the word problems in MUS PRe ALgebra, as it is, because he struggles with that kind of language....so I see no point if giving him a more challenging program with more challenging word problems if it would overwhelm him and make him feel like a failure (which is our experiecne with other programs). I would rather he feel reasonable successful at an average program.

If I had a student who was going into higher level sciences and for whom higher level maths was important- AND who could cope with a more challenging program, I would go that direction.

I am working with what I have, and it suits our purpose.

[Mom22ns]

I think that's largely the result of self-selection. If you rarely see posts saying "I wish I hadn't used MUS, it just wasn't strong enough for my child" perhaps it's because parents who are looking for a rigorous math curriculum don't choose MUS to begin with. I don't see many people who chose Foerster's or Dolciani saying they really regretted it and wished they'd used MUS either. ;)

 

Jackie

 

I do. I see posts all the time that go something like, "I started with Lials, Foresters, Jacobs and ended up with MUS or TT and really regret that I didn't start there". Does that mean that plenty of kids don't finish those more rigorous programs happily, of course not. But, there are plenty that can't make it through them too.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with attempting more, but I don't think there is anything wrong with doing MUS successfully either. I have one student that I plan to have stick with MUS all the way with LOF supplementing. My other will switch to something more rigorous when she gets to Algebra in 8th grade. I don't know what yet - probably Lials.

[tofuscramble]

I think that's largely the result of self-selection. If you rarely see posts saying "I wish I hadn't used MUS, it just wasn't strong enough for my child" perhaps it's because parents who are looking for a rigorous math curriculum don't choose MUS to begin with. I don't see many people who chose Foerster's or Dolciani saying they really regretted it and wished they'd used MUS either. ;)

 

Jackie

 

I am one of those people. We started out with Singapore, then Calvert, then something else and something else, until we finally got to MUS. I really wish we had found MUS earlier.

 

To be a little more specific about what I was getting at, I haven't heard anyone say that they weren't prepared, failed the SAT or didn't get into college because MUS was inadequate. In fact, if you Google for MUS reviews the consensus is that its perfectly adequate (trust me, I read through hundreds of them!). Some of those kids are getting top scores with MUS as their *only* highschool math course. :)

[Corraleno]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. I meant you don't see many parents whose kids have successfully completed Foerster's or Dolciani saying they wished they'd used MUS instead. The fact that many people choose MUS precisely because it is less rigorous than most other algebra programs was actually my point. I have no doubt that MUS is "perfectly adequate" for many students, but if you compare it side-by-side with many other programs, it is definitely on the "lite" side. If that's what parents are looking for, and that's what works for their kids, great. But if someone asks "What about MUS for HS?," then knowing where it falls on the continuum of math programs may be useful information for them.

 

Jackie

[Martha in VA]

Sorry, I didn't phrase that very well. I meant you don't see many parents whose kids have successfully completed Foerster's or Dolciani saying they wished they'd used MUS instead. The fact that many people choose MUS precisely because it is less rigorous than most other algebra programs was actually my point. I have no doubt that MUS is "perfectly adequate" for many students, but if you compare it side-by-side with many other programs, it is definitely on the "lite" side. If that's what parents are looking for, and that's what works for their kids, great. But if someone asks "What about MUS for HS?," then knowing where it falls on the continuum of math programs may be useful information for them.

 

Jackie

 

Jackie, this is very useful information for me. Thank you very much for posting. I'm glad to know where it fits on the continuum since I've got kids all over the continuum as well! :D

[Phoatogirl]

Holly,

 

Did you end up going to Saxon for Algebra?

 

I went from Saxon 5/4 to MUS for my son because he needed more practice on each new concept (like MUS does), but then I noticed that, even though Steve Demming wrote me with evidence that his program has built in review, there isn't enough review for my son. Some concepts are left unpracticed for up to 10 or 12 lessons....way too much time for my kid to forget he ever learned that!

 

We attempted to use MUS for Algebra 1. It did not work well for us. Dd needs more review (a la Saxon) than MUS offers. It seemed to focus so heavily on graphing in the beginning that the other aspects of an algebra program seemed to be forgotten. There was some review, but like I said, dd needed more.

[Phoatogirl]

Holly,

 

I also meant to ask if you had used the new algebra MUS books, with the honor's option.

 

 

Wendy

 

 

We attempted to use MUS for Algebra 1. It did not work well for us. Dd needs more review (a la Saxon) than MUS offers. It seemed to focus so heavily on graphing in the beginning that the other aspects of an algebra program seemed to be forgotten. There was some review, but like I said, dd needed more.

 

I will give you a math teacher's review. :) There are things I really like about MUS and things I really don't like. I think that Steve is a sound math teacher and I think he has done an amazing job making math accessible to homeschooling families who aren't strong in math. However, the program is just NOT very rigorous. I know that even as I say this there will be students who have done well in college math or placement tests, but as much as I WANT to love it, I can't get totally on board with it. I think there are a lot of topics that get left out of the book, and there are topics that he spends a whole lesson on that make NO sense to me. (For example, in Pre-Algebra, he spends TWO lessons on converting Farenheit to Celcius and Celcius to Farneheit. That is such a specific application that it seems crazy to me to spend 2 out of 30 lessons on this!) And, there are very few higher level thinking questions. And, the problems that he gives are usually ones that work out evenly. In a more rigorous Algebra 2 course you would be completing the square where the answers are sometimes messy fractions. In MUS, the problems are usually the easier versions.

 

I do really like how the lessons are set up with both mastery and then the spiral review built in. I think this is an effective way to set it up.

 

I don't mean to discourage anyone because I know that MUS is very easy to use and a life-saver for some. I even used it last year in a co-op class that I tought because it really lends itself to that. But, I am going to be switching to the new Holt book for my co-op next year because I just don't feel good about the level of rigor that I'm giving my students.