My ds hates to write

[TryingWithTwo]

I have seen many posts regarding boys who hate to write. My ds is now 10. It is the actual act of writing that he does not like. Fine motor issues, probably. We have tried everything, grips, different pencils, etc. to find a solution.

 

He simply is not where he should be. Intellectually he has all the concepts but struggles with the writing.

 

How can I move him forward realistically?

 

Lisa

[johnandtinagilbert]

Require him to write more -- period.

 

Sorry for the bad news :(

 

I just had that conversation with my 8yo this morning. He hates writing mechanics, too and tries to grumble. I told him that was how it is and he didn't have a choice, he just has to get over it.

 

I'm not sure of any other advice. Over my many years of home schooling there have been several issues of not liking something....unless there is an honest reason, medical or physcial, why they can't do what I ask...sorry Charlie, you gotta do it!

[Oney Jones]

Now see, I have a different thought on this. I have two boys who do not like to write. It's not that they don't have the creative or intellectual ability---they can tell a story or give descriptions and how-to directions-- it's the actual staying still enough to write that is the problem.

 

They are boys. They fidget and wriggle and bop up and down in their seats.

 

I let them tell me orally anything longer than a paragraph... Ethan is 14 now and is settling down a bit. As he matures he is more thought-full and methodical about everything. Eli (12) not so much. Yet.

 

I think it IS fine motor skills and just their natural tendency to be "on guard and at the ready" to move that prevents boys from being molded into the traditional "sit down, be still, be quiet, and write" mode that is prevalent in public schools.

 

Why do you think Mr. Slate had a "dictabird?" ;)

[StartingOver]

I had a son like this, at 8 I taught him to type. He barely wrote all through school. This was the child who could remember anything. He could do anything orally. He had major fine motor skill issues, he couldn't catch a ball till he was about 8. Somethings just came very difficult to him. But he excelled in academics !!!

 

His handwriting is still awful at 18. But it hasn't slowed him down, he attended college two years. He is at bootcamp for the Army at the moment. And he enjoys writing now, he writes poetry often which started about the time he was 16.

 

I know I would have never gotten him through school if I had just forced him to do more writing.

Edited May 27, 2010 by alatexan68

[Colleen in NS]

I have seen many posts regarding boys who hate to write. My ds is now 10. It is the actual act of writing that he does not like. Fine motor issues, probably. We have tried everything, grips, different pencils, etc. to find a solution.

 

He simply is not where he should be. Intellectually he has all the concepts but struggles with the writing.

 

How can I move him forward realistically?

 

Lisa

 

My ds had problems with the physical act of writing, too. His hand hurt after a couple of sentences, and I did have him writing physically every day with narrations and dictations. By around age 10, it wasn't worth the battle anymore - he was having a very hard time getting his narration thoughts on paper completely, and I saw that he was going to go backwards in his intellectual ability if I kept insisting things had to be handwritten all the time. So I let him learn to type. What a world of difference! It was like giving him a key. He stopped fighting about writing narrations, and his narrations got a whole lot more interesting, because he no longer wrote short sentences to get out of handwriting. He still gets handwriting practice through a few other activities, but it's not holding him back intellectually anymore.

[TryingWithTwo]

Thanks for all the input.

 

I do "require" him to write. Period. It is a non-issue. His cursive writing is neater than his printing and numbers. He grips the pencil too hard, his hand tires, etc. We have tried mechanical pencils to learn how to hold the pencil lighter, yet they break and he gets frustrated. He wants to write the least amount of sentences possible.

 

He followed TWTM plan with copywork, dictation, etc. It may be that he is "stuck" with writing his own narrations now. He can remember three to five things in History, and will choose to write three down, in short sentences. Same for Science, Reading, etc.

 

I have required him to "write" in one subject daily. What I would like is a more sensible/realistic plan for him. I love the typing idea. Any idea what subject I should begin? Might he be ready for outlining?

 

Lisa

[PeterPan]

Lisa, after 6 years of my GIRL who was saying the same thing, I finally clued in that it was an actual problem, not something that was going away or just a bad attitude or due to insufficient diligence on my part (which were all the blame things I had gotten in the past). Now we're doing VT (vision therapy) and pursuing OT (occupational therapy). There are reasons their hands hurt, etc., and just doing more doesn't make the problems go away.

[sagira]

Hmmm.. This is like my son, who wants to write as little as possible. He's 6.5. Since he has many ideas and a restless imagination, I'm going to give him a notebook that he can write his wishlist in,

[Imprimis]

Typing has made all the difference in the world for us.

 

The mechanics of writing were really holding my son back. Once he learned to type, his writing took off. He actually loves to write now (well, love might be a bit strong)---book reports, outlining, essays, you name it.

 

We used this software http://www.amazon.com/Individual-Software-Inc-EMM-T17-Instructor/dp/B000KMCF1A .

Edited May 27, 2010 by Imprimis

[Colleen in NS]

It may be that he is "stuck" with writing his own narrations now. He can remember three to five things in History, and will choose to write three down, in short sentences. Same for Science, Reading, etc.

 

I have required him to "write" in one subject daily. What I would like is a more sensible/realistic plan for him. I love the typing idea. Any idea what subject I should begin? Might he be ready for outlining?

 

Lisa

 

This is exactly what happened to my ds - he got stuck around the transition from me writing his narrations to him writing them. When I tried transitioning him, his narrations shrank. If you are going to teach typing, you can use it in any of your subjects (if that's what your question means?), still doing one narration or dictation a day. My ds was ready for one-level outlining when he could write about three narration sentences (properly spaced/spelled/punctuated, and grammatically correct) by himself.

[gingersmom]

If you suspect he has fine motor issues then I would take him in for an OT evaulation ASAP.

 

My son had fine motor issues as a baby and started with OT at 18 months.

 

Its late to get started but better late than never.

[Guest]

Lisa, after 6 years of my GIRL who was saying the same thing, I finally clued in that it was an actual problem, not something that was going away or just a bad attitude or due to insufficient diligence on my part (which were all the blame things I had gotten in the past). Now we're doing VT (vision therapy) and pursuing OT (occupational therapy). There are reasons their hands hurt, etc., and just doing more doesn't make the problems go away.

 

I absolutely agree with this. Hand pain is a signal that something physical needs fixing. With my daughter, it was a combination of several issues: visual problems, fine motor strength, and finger agnosia (she couldn't feel the stimuli from her fingers like most people do so pressed harder and squeezed harder to compensate; thus the pain and tiring).

 

I recently wrote a three-part guest blog for SWB's education site http://www.welltrainedmind.com/blog in which I spent one section talking about fine motor issues and some of the things I have learned from OTs, neuropsychologists, and my daughter about helping her with those. It's a few posts in the past, so you have to scroll down and search for it, but it's labeled "Dealing With Dysgraphia." It may fit with what you know about your son's difficulties.

[dsmith]

My son has difficulty writing also. He does some of his work on the computer, but the most helpful thing for him has been introducing fountain pens. Someone on the boards recommended them for handwriting difficulty. I'd find the thread, but I'm busy packing for a trip. It's helped him with grip and pressure, plus he enjoys the way the pen glides over the paper. We don't use fountain pens for everything, but he will use them whenever he can. I picked up a pack of Pilot Varsity disposables in a bunch of colors, and he loves them. He has a more expensive pen picked out for his birthday, but the Varsity was good to start with. These have done more for him than any rec's his OT has made.

[TryingWithTwo]

I did have his vision tested a few weeks ago to check for any issues. His vision tests were all fine, although he did receive reading glasses, because he does not like to read for more than 15 minutes. (That's another story.)

 

He did have OT as a Kindergartener, who concluded his grip was too strong, and to use mechanical pencils. That was a failure, though. He now is switching over to pens.

 

Thanks for all your input.

 

Lisa

[Nestof3]

I just wanted to say that Ben is almost nine and he struggles with the physical act of writing too. He is so slow. He loves to draw and is very good at it. When he writes, he is so intense about it. We did some WWE this year, but I dropped it. He does two Daily Grams lessons a day, and there are two sentence combining exercises in those lessons, so he is writing two complex sentences a day. They are great!

 

Next year, I plan to use the WTM method without WWE workbooks, but I plan to start him at a lower level. We will still do some copywork (the sentence combining does some of this), dictation and written narration. I have just accepted that he will need more time. Who know, he may blossom.

[NanceXToo]

I'll tell you what, when I start writing anything longer than a shopping list, MY hand gets crampy and tired and my handwriting gets very sloppy and I can't stand doing it.

 

Thank goodness for typing! I can type very quickly, and it's always legible :D

 

I try not to make my daughter have to do TOO much handwriting. I mean, she can write, she knows how, but outside of school, who ever really handwrites anything anymore? Everything is done on computers these days. I'm not saying a kid shouldn't know how to write. But is it really that important that they then do tons of handwritten work all the time? Copywork and whatnot? Personally, I don't think so.

 

I have my daughter do some writing. She keeps a daily journal. She usually handwrites her book reports or other types of reports. She keeps a brief log of what she does for social studies or science. Sometimes she likes to handwrite and mail letters to people. But there's a limit to what I'll give her to handwrite. And if she reaches her own limit on that, I don't like to force the issue.

 

I've also let her dictate things to me for me to type, I've let her type, I've allowed her to write in smaller sessions like if she was going to handwrite a report, where she'd break it down into sections and do it over a few days, etc. Sometimes she'll ask me if she can dictate a story or report to me so I can type it, then we'll proofread it and edit it together, and then she'll write the final copy into her book, instead of having to write more than one draft, etc.

 

I also agree that it may be something you are not thinking about for which OT, PT or a doctor may be required. So I'd keep that in mind, and I wouldn't be too hard on him and start blaming it all on attitude or something.

[PeterPan]

I did have his vision tested a few weeks ago to check for any issues. His vision tests were all fine, although he did receive reading glasses, because he does not like to read for more than 15 minutes. (That's another story.)

 

He did have OT as a Kindergartener, who concluded his grip was too strong, and to use mechanical pencils. That was a failure, though. He now is switching over to pens.

 

Thanks for all your input.

 

Lisa

 

Lisa, did you take him to a developmental optometrist or a regular optometrist? I did the same thing with my dd, taking her to a regular optometrist who gave her reading glasses. Your ds may be taking them off after 15 minutes because reading glasses actually make the problem WORSE. That's why you need to take him to a developmental optometrist. http://www.covd.org I think that's the link. A developmental optometrist checks all kinds of stuff that a regular optometrist only does cursory checks for. My dd supposedly had 20/20 vision, but her focusing is all screwy. Everything was fuzzy and she simply chose the line the eye doc wanted her to read, strained her eyes, and read it. But it's 20/20, right? :001_huh: When their focusing is weak and they strain, they pull the eyes in harder, helping them converge. When you take away the strain for the focusing (by wearing reading glasses), the eyes stop converging properly. That gave my dd even MORE headaches, to the point where our schoolwork pretty much ground to a halt. It was HORRIBLE.

 

The developmental optometrist measures their convergence, eye dominance (because each eye functions both independently and together, meaning they can have different levels), and all sorts of stuff. They used these infrared goggles to track her eye function while reading and caught her eyes backtracking, skipping lines, and not fixating (staying in one spot) like they need to.

 

This is the age, 4th/5th grade, when this stuff becomes a huge issue because they can no longer compensate or hide it. Getting reading glasses from the eye doc is code word for go to the developmental optometrist and get a more thorough evaluation. GO. I wish they would have told me that months ago rather than wasting our money and letting us continue with headaches and problems.

 

Now, on the OT thing, I think you're going to see a spread in results because a lot of OT's are dealing with stroke victims and whatnot as the bulk of their practice. I would search out someone who works a lot with kids. The one I have an appt. with for my dd came recommended by the developmental optometrist and was on a list for therapists who do Interactive Metronome. I sort of figured by cross-referencing therapies I might find someone who had pulled the pieces of the puzzle together. Because the OT is used to working with the VT, I think we'll have times where they actually work TOGETHER in a session, coordinating stuff. VT and OT seem to overlap, hitting on the same thing from different angles. The VT gave us a new pencil grip this week to use, a really snazzy one. And yes, we use fountain pens. But it goes way further than that. I'm just starting to learn about this, but apparently the reflexes develop in a certain order:

 

Primitive

Postural

Ocular

 

The ocular reflexes act as sort of the image stabilizers for the eyes. The vestibular system has to be working right for those to get the right input. When I put my dd in a situation that makes her dizzy (riding hills, on a spinning toy on the playground), she gets sick immediately. Well clearly that vestibular system is not functioning properly, meaning she can't get the right input to stabilize her eyes. Eventually they'll work on that, but they have to go in order.

 

The primitive reflexes are the baby reflexes (moro/startle, that type thing). Google them and you can read more. They should be integrated, but in some children they are retained. And when retained, they gum up the works. The VT places looks for them as they relate to the eyes, and the OT looks for all of them. So they work on and try to get those to integrate, then the postural, THEN they can get to the ocular. And after they do all that groundwork, then they can get to executive level function (the messiness, etc.).

 

So there's no way an OT who is dealing with other things all day is likely to have put all that together, and just working on their hands didn't scratch the surface. Now I will say I have my dd taking up horseriding this summer as a precursor to OT. It helped Karen's dd immensely with hand strength and whatnot. I don't think it's a substitute, but it's the best I can do right now. But anything that works on upper body strength (serious time on the playground, crawling, gardening, things they do with their arms) should help.

 

Well that's a huge rabbit trail and stuff that may or may not mean much to you right now. The long and short of it is, KEEP LOOKING. You need to see a developmental optometrist, and I'd look for a good one. I found a lot who hang out their shingle and don't do much of it. I would drive longer to find the best place you can. If they integrate it with sports vision therapy, all the better. That would be the dream I think, but around here they isolate them. And pursue the OT stuff, preferably with someone who deals with this a lot. That developmental optometrist should have someone they refer people to.