SAT score question, what is high enough?

[sixglides]

Is there a point of contentment with a score? Keep taking it?

 

My son is finishing his junior year. 98% critical reading, 99% math & 95% writing (which he says he BLEW!)

[Teachin'Mine]

I think it's all gotten ridiculously competitive. Those are awesome percentiles! He should be celebrating instead of beating himself up. Look at colleges he's interested in and see what the average SAT scores of their incoming freshmen are. If he's within range, then he's done what he needs to do. Grades, activities, enthusiasm, etc. all still count too. :)

[sixglides]

Do most college websites list their average SAT scores? I haven't been able to find that info.

[Moira in MA]

You can find mid-50 (25-75 percentile) data on the college board as part of the school profile -- you may have to enter your scores or expected scores to see it, I think it is in the 'how do you stack-up' section.

 

Many college guides also list that data.

 

hth

~Moira

[Laurie4b]

Those are obviously very high scores; however, it might be worth it to him to retest if he needs them slightly higher for a certain school. When your scores are in the tail-end of the normal curve (as opposed to the big average chunk) they are more likely to move significantly from test to test--some of the randomness of which questions are asked kicks in more at the ends of the normal curve than in the middle. Don't know if I"m explaining that well.) Given that many colleges "superscore" the SAT's (taking the highest score for each category out of the SAT's they receive), taking it again could be an advantage. But SAT scores are only part of the application--I think being an "interesting" student is more important once your scores are within "shooting range" than is a slightly higher score.

[Musicmom]

Just agreeing with what Moira said and adding some detail: these scores are easy to find on the college board. Just go to www.collegeboard.com, type a college name in the college search box, hit search and it will come up with a whole page of info about that college. From there, just click the SAT,ACT,CLEP tab and it will show you the median scores of admitted students--for both the SAT and the ACT. You don't need to enter your dc's scores, and you don't need to click the "How do I stack up". (Not sure why that's even there... I would think if you know your own scores you can already see how you stack up!)

Edited May 20, 2010 by Musicmom
Clarification

[elizabeth]

:party::thumbup:Please congratulate your son on excellent work and a job well done. Oh and of course congrats to mother as well these scores are no happy accident. He might wish to take again but it certainly is not needed.

[Michelle in AL]

Congrats!!! Those are great scores!!

 

I wold look at the colleges he is interested in and see what their cut off score is for scholarships. You can probably find this out by googling name of school+scholarship.

 

If he's a couple points away from a complete ride, then I'd have him take it again.

[creekland]

It all depends on the school he wants to attend. For almost all schools, those are excellent scores and should be in the merit aid range if the school offers it. Some schools offer merit scholarships solely based on scores, some invite the student to scholarship testing. Some do a combination of both.

 

If he's in the top 25% of students in schools he likes, I'd be fully satisfied with those scores UNLESS getting slightly better would lead to more merit aid.

 

And yes, check scores via collegeboard.com as stated above.

[asta]

Is there a point of contentment with a score? Keep taking it?

 

My son is finishing his junior year. 98% critical reading, 99% math & 95% writing (which he says he BLEW!)

 

I guess I'm much more naive than I thought I was, but in what alternative universe are these scores "not good enough" for, frankly, anything?

 

Is 100% not still considered perfect?

 

 

asta

[Yolanda in Mass]

I guess I'm much more naive than I thought I was, but in what alternative universe are these scores "not good enough" for, frankly, anything?

 

Is 100% not still considered perfect?

 

 

asta

 

:iagree:

[Halftime Hope]

if your student is a strong student overall and would enjoy the academic challenge, the close relationships, and the stellar opportunities (study abroad, research, etc.), you may want to consider looking at the honor programs available at the colleges which are of interest. Those will generally require a higher score threshold than general admissions does.

 

What we found was that the college selection journey was a bit like a boxing match. :lol: Round one was general admissions. Round two was consideration for honors programs. Round three was consideration for the top tier of competitive scholarships from within the candidates selected for the honor programs. That last tier required a substantially higher SAT or ACT score than even the honors programs, and it also required a competitive interview. (Some of the colleges required the interview on Round Two.)

 

Depending on what he wants, you all can set your goals. Personally, if I had a kid capable of the academic work, I'd have them study for the SATs over their junior summer as though it were a job (iow, at least half time) with the earned scholarship $ as their pay. Based on what you will see if you peruse the college board, many of the students' scholarships were the equivalent of over 10K hours of work at minimum wage (5 man-years) or being paid > $150/hour if you figure it as a full time, 12 week summer job.

 

With your ds' scores at this point, plus the additional work, he could really hit it out of the park and either write his own ticket wherever he wants to go, or have free or nearly free college, depending on what he wants. Can you imagine having him graduate without owing anything? What a phenomenal gift that would be to him!

 

Personal story: we don't consider dd an outrageously gifted student. She is reasonably bright, and she works very, very hard. She was out of state on a college visit the weekend of the honors interviews at the college she later ended up choosing. They scheduled a makeup interview for her a week later, and while she interviewed, I checked in with the admissions/visit coordinator. There was another family on the campus tour with us, and while we waited for dd to finish, I chatted with the mom. She was quick to point out to me that her dd was the valedictorian of her small town class. I congratulated her and asked if she was interviewing with the honors program that afternoon. Her mom said that, no, the daughter didn't want to work that hard. (!!) Later on there was bit of talk between the two of them about cost and, "you're going to have to work a lot of hours this summer," etc. Obviously, I don't have the whole picture, but my dd later told me she'd rather work really hard at studying than really hard at cleaning houses, washing windows, or temping. In reality, my dd will have to study *and* work, but she should be able to graduate without debt.

 

BTW, in addition to the "usual suspects," dd used the Chalkdust SAT math review and Math SAT 800: How To Master the Toughest Problems to help with her math section. YMMV.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Valerie(TX)

[creekland]

I guess I'm much more naive than I thought I was, but in what alternative universe are these scores "not good enough" for, frankly, anything?

 

Is 100% not still considered perfect?

 

 

asta

 

The percentiles are very good, but they don't mean perfection. It's not that kind of test. They mean if there were 100 students in line he'd be roughly 2nd in line for the 98%, at or near the front for the 99% (as they don't give 100%) and 5th in line for the 95%.

 

Considering there are far more than 100 students applying for certain very selective colleges, there is a little leeway that could make a difference pending on where he wanted to go and what he wanted to do. For 99% of the colleges out there, they'd be good enough though and would likely get him into merit aid consideration if the school offers it (many of those top ones don't, but many others do). Those very selective colleges have students that essentially ALL have top of the top scores AND other extras that are going for them. Having the highest scores are helpful, but not all it takes.

 

If he were my son, he'd likely be done taking the SAT, but it all depends...

[Kareni]

I guess I'm much more naive than I thought I was, but in what alternative universe are these scores "not good enough" for, frankly, anything?

 

Is 100% not still considered perfect?

 

I agree that the scores are excellent. But if this young person were interested in going to a highly selective college, he should be aware that, for example, Ivy league schools often turn away students with perfect SAT scores. The counter argument is that they also accept students who do not have perfect scores but who might have other gifts and talents (or a parent willing to donate a new building!).

 

Regards,

Kareni

[creekland]

Any chance this student took the PSAT last fall and did as well? If so, I suspect they are in the NMS range? The lowest score I get with those percentages is 2210 overall (could be higher, of course, as percentages overlap with some scores). It's certainly in merit scholarship range at many colleges.

[CAMom]

Any chance this student took the PSAT last fall and did as well? If so, I suspect they are in the NMS range? The lowest score I get with those percentages is 2210 overall (could be higher, of course, as percentages overlap with some scores). It's certainly in merit scholarship range at many colleges.

 

I agree. My son got very similar scores and I'm thinking, "How can over 2200 not be "enough?"

 

Really? We were aiming for 2200 and I'm just thrilled for him that he bumped a little bit over.

 

We're hoping and praying on the NMS cutoff. He's hanging right on the line of what the cutoff score has been for CA the past few years.

 

Is over 2200 just not that good of score anymore?:001_huh:

[creekland]

I agree. My son got very similar scores and I'm thinking, "How can over 2200 not be "enough?"

 

Really? We were aiming for 2200 and I'm just thrilled for him that he bumped a little bit over.

 

We're hoping and praying on the NMS cutoff. He's hanging right on the line of what the cutoff score has been for CA the past few years.

 

Is over 2200 just not that good of score anymore?:001_huh:

 

No one is saying they aren't really good scores, that's for sure. But the "enough" question really varies on the goal. At 99% of colleges the answer is a resounding yes. However, if the student wants Yale... then they are below the 50% range of incoming freshmen SAT scores (mid range of 2100 - 2370 --> fully 1/4th of incoming Freshmen at Yale had SAT scores higher than 2370). If they want a school like that and felt they didn't do their best, it would be worth retesting. If not, then they're done. It all depends on the goal.

 

It should be noted again that a high score doesn't necessarily get you in, but it definitely helps.

[asta]

No one is saying they aren't really good scores, that's for sure. But the "enough" question really varies on the goal. At 99% of colleges the answer is a resounding yes. However, if the student wants Yale... then they are below the 50% range of incoming freshmen SAT scores (mid range of 2100 - 2370 --> fully 1/4th of incoming Freshmen at Yale had SAT scores higher than 2370). If they want a school like that and felt they didn't do their best, it would be worth retesting. If not, then they're done. It all depends on the goal.

 

It should be noted again that a high score doesn't necessarily get you in, but it definitely helps.

 

That right there tells me this system is broken nine ways to Sunday.

 

 

a

[creekland]

That right there tells me this system is broken nine ways to Sunday.

 

 

a

 

WHY? They aren't a terribly large school. They can't just admit anyone that wants to come as there isn't space available. There's high demand among some students (not mine, but obviously many). It seems like it's simple supply and demand to me.

 

How would you decide who gets to go there?

[asta]

WHY? They aren't a terribly large school. They can't just admit anyone that wants to come as there isn't space available. There's high demand among some students (not mine, but obviously many). It seems like it's simple supply and demand to me.

 

How would you decide who gets to go there?

 

Honestly? The way they used to! Applications, essays and interviews.

 

I am j.a.d.e.d. My sister used to work at College Board. They are one HUGE money-making scam.

 

 

a

[FaithManor]

Amen! Asta

 

My nephew aced the PSAT and the SAT after attending the Hun School for Boys - feeder school for Princeton. Princeton wouldn't take him! A product of their own high school, but it came down to a lot more than just scores.

 

Bubble testing has become one of the craziest, looniest, nonsensical education frauds ever perpetuated on American children.

 

I think you should be just thrilled with your child's score! There's a lot of stress involved with high stakes testing and I would be concerned adding more. Have a party and celebrate.

 

Faith

[creekland]

Honestly? The way they used to! Applications, essays and interviews.

 

I am j.a.d.e.d. My sister used to work at College Board. They are one HUGE money-making scam.

 

 

a

 

It's not like they eliminated applications, essays, and interviews... scores are just one part of it all. They get you looked at, but several more apply with very good to great scores than get accepted.

 

Many things in life... wait... most things in life revolve around the almighty dollar. It's how the system here works. If hubby doesn't make a profit in his job then we can't spend our $$ and the person down the road can't spend $$, etc, etc. I don't condemn any company for wanting profit nor do I see collegeboard as just a moneymaker. I use their site a lot for free to look at and/or find schools. Convenience stores are just a moneymaker too, but occasionally we stop there. There are gazillions of examples of things that are merely money makers.

 

In my experience of years of working in a public high school, standardized scores often reflect ability at that time - NOT always, that's for certain, but enough that I can see why so many schools use them for an initial screening. I won't let any of my boys be terribly over or under matched where they choose to go to school so that they can (in general) study with peers of similar ability. I prefer mine somewhat over matched for the merit aid, but not so much over matched that I have questions about the academic quality of their education.

 

Regarding Yale and similar... I think a lot of their popularity is in the prestige more than the difference in the educational value, but that's just my opinion and why we don't consider those schools. Obviously, not everyone shares my views or they wouldn't be highly selective. If the OP or others reading are considering those schools they need to know the difference in the scores as they ARE generally part of the admission ticket.

 

To each our own I suppose. ;)

[Halftime Hope]

No one is saying they aren't really good scores, that's for sure. But the "enough" question really varies on the goal. <snip> If not, then they're done. It all depends on the goal.

 

It should be noted again that a high score doesn't necessarily get you in, but it definitely helps.

 

For the OP, if these scores were my child's we'd be done. Period. Moved on to other really cool, really unique experiences. I'd have to chain bricks to my feet about this scores. My kid is not interested in the Ivies or any really exclusive school. Your ds' score would have gotten my dd full tuition at my favorite Christian LAC for her, but would not have gotten anything more than the top level of regular merit aid at her favorite (both fantastic schools for her wants.) The score she *did* get was high enough to garner the top competitive scholarships from two other schools she seriously considered.

 

But--here's where the rub comes in--what are your son's goals? If he is aiming for an Ivie, or a 6 year pre/med combo program like FloridaLisa'a son, or something else in the academic stratosphere, he may need to up his score. OTOH, if his scores are already on target, I'd spend his summer doing something very productive and unique, something that would make him an interesting person. In dd's case, the scores got her through the door, but the personal connections--her spark, her interests--were what won the scholarships.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Valerie(TX)

[Jane Elliot]

I'm going to bump this because we had a very similar situation (98%,98%,96%) and I was hoping for more discussion. Ds was very happy with his score and so were we. He does not want to go to an ivy league or anything like that, but we're wondering if the schools we're looking at will give better merit aid if he gets higher on the fall SAT.

 

So my question is: How would we know if a higher score would get better merit aid at the school he chooses? Is it uncouth to call the admissions office to ask?

[emubird]

Our experience with "very good but not ivy" schools is that above about a 30 on the ACT gets the student into the higher ranges of merit aid. That's the 96th percentile (composite). Above that, I'm not sure it makes much difference. They probably have the same cut off for the SAT.

 

There seemed to be two types of merit aid: what the college just gave automatically (depending on the ACT score) and what they (or depts within the college) decided to award competitively based on further application materials. The high ACT score just gets you into the running for this 2nd category (as will a good GPA -- and it doesn't have to be both. You could have one or the other.). After you've been invited to apply for these further awards, they look at things other than test scores. A 36 vs a 30, therefore, probably wouldn't make any difference on this second round of awards.

 

I would suspect the ivy league schools do things similarly. A high enough score just makes them look.

 

If it were me or my kids, I wouldn't redo the test. It's probably a waste of time and money, not to mention really nerve wracking.

 

A 100 %ile is an impossible score, BTW. It would mean that you did better than 100% of the students, which would mean you'd have to do better than yourself, which is impossible.

[creekland]

I'm going to bump this because we had a very similar situation (98%,98%,96%) and I was hoping for more discussion. Ds was very happy with his score and so were we. He does not want to go to an ivy league or anything like that, but we're wondering if the schools we're looking at will give better merit aid if he gets higher on the fall SAT.

 

So my question is: How would we know if a higher score would get better merit aid at the school he chooses? Is it uncouth to call the admissions office to ask?

 

I would call it done if this were my situation and be proud of the scores received!

 

In our experience, it took a minimum of 31 on the ACT and 1380 (M/CR) on the SAT to get invited to scholarship competitions. Note... this is just in our experience. One school was less than that with no ACT reported and 1300 on the SAT. None were Ivy nor very selective schools. I'm still researching the more selective schools that my middle son is interested in.

[Halftime Hope]

I'm going to bump this because we had a very similar situation (98%,98%,96%) and I was hoping for more discussion. Ds was very happy with his score and so were we. He does not want to go to an ivy league or anything like that, but we're wondering if the schools we're looking at will give better merit aid if he gets higher on the fall SAT.

 

So my question is: How would we know if a higher score would get better merit aid at the school he chooses? Is it uncouth to call the admissions office to ask?

 

I have no idea what set of schools your son is considering, so this may not be applicable at all, but we found that the wide range of schools that dd applied to had the following categories:

 

 

• standard schedules of merit aid listed on their websites, complete with the scores, GPA, and class rank needed to earn each level of merit aid.

• Then they generally had competitive aid listings which could be attached to honors, leadership, or other specialty programs, departmental aid (music, art, engineering, etc.) The competitive aid often required an interview, portfolio or audition.

• Finally, there was another category of "achievement" aid for accomplishments such as community service, organizational leadership, etc.

• There may be additional catergories of awards such as alumni family, denominational, professional associations, or ethnic funds.

I found that admissions departments were very eager to discuss helping the student and exploring every possible avenue of finding funding, with the one exception of the state flagship university. They would not comment on scholarships at all, and dd wasn't really interested, so we didn't bother.