Artisan Bread in Five Minutes a Day?

[bookfiend]

How is this supposed to work? I baked my first loaf, and I use that word lightly, yesterday. My grapefruit sized, gluten cloaked ball barely rose in the recommended 40 minutes. Really, how could it - it was still icebox cold!

 

The whole process started out well. The original dough mixture easily doubled in two hours before going into the refrigerator. I was so excited to find a way that seemed practical for making bread on a regular basis. Our mini-loaves were tasty, but failed to rise or acheive any noticable oven spring, resulting in small, dense rounds.

 

Has anyone used this book sucessfully? Is it worth pursuing?

[jentancalann]

I copied a few recipes from the book, including the basic one, but don't have the book. I've made a few good loaves, but stopped keeping the dough around when I let too many dough batches go to waste after letting them sit in the fridge too long. I probably let them rise for longer than 40 minutes, though I don't remember specifically. The only thing I didn't enjoy was the wetness of the dough as you were trying to shape it, which I know is necessary for the method. I also couldn't make the slices without it collapsing. It tasted really good, though!

[cjzimmer1]

Honestly, I've never had a loaf NOT turn out good. I've never baked a load that small (I usually bake half a batch in one big loaf), so I don't know if dough ball size matters. I will say I don't think I've ever let it sit for just 40 minutes. I'm guessing I've usually let it go an hour to an hour and a half. I tend to use the wheat bread recipe (in the healthy bread book) and I think it calls for 40 mintues with fresh (unrefrigerated dough) and 1 1/2 hours for the refrigerated stuff.

 

Anyways, I'd try it again and let it sit longer. Maybe your fridge runs colder than normal and the dough had more warming up to do.

[LauraGB]

I'm not sure what might be wrong - bad yeast, maybe? But I can honestly say I've never had a bad loaf, either, and we've been using the recipes exclusively for about a month or so. I've made breads from both the Artisan and Healthy Breads book, all with flying success.

 

The loaves don't seem to rise much during the wait time - they really just rest. I've noticed most of the rising happens in the oven. Possibly your oven temp is off?

 

I suggest keeping at it and investigate what might be the prob - it really has been worth it here.

[bookfiend]

I'm not ready to throw in the towel by any means. The prospect of fast, homemade, healthy bread is just too tempting. I'm sure I will try several more of the recipies. Just wondering what others have experienced as "normal" with this method. I'm not an experienced bread-maker; although I have been baking most of my life. For some reason, yeast just seems scary :D.

 

The remaining dough that is in my refrigerator is developing a dry skin. Is this right? Maybe I put in too much flour, wishing the recipe was by weight. The whole scoop and sweep thing makes me nervous too.

 

many thanks for any additional wisdom!

[oraetstudia]

When my house is very cold in the winter, it takes at least double the amount of resting time on the counter that the book recommends. I even sometimes shine a bright hot lamp over the resting loaf to warm it up some. I think I read on their website in the errata section (if not there then somewhere) that they realized that the resting times could be quite variable.

 

But also, as the dough ages it does not rise as much. One day old dough is a lot better for a loaf and by the time it is over a week old, it works better for pita bread and pizza.

[Pster]

Definitely try it again and see how it turns out. Maybe the dough was overmixed? Did you let it rise long enough before baking? (sometimes I let it rise 2-3 hrs) Check if your yeast is still active. What kind of flour are you using?

 

I'm sure you'll figure it out! The majority of my loaves have turned out great but I've had some flops too. It's bound to happen once and a while.

 

enjoy! I love the ABIFM bk!!!

[Harriet Vane]

We use this book almost exclusively for all our bread needs. We've rarely had a bad loaf.

 

As another poster suggested, most of the rising seems to happen in the oven. Every now and then we get a flatter loaf but I think this is due to the quality/age of the yeast.

 

I don't watch it to make sure it rises or is warm or anything. I have baked all sizes and shapes of loaf as well. I scatter some cornmeal on a bread board and throw a wad of dough on top. I preheat the oven for twenty minutes, then throw in the loaf to bake.

 

Every once in a blue moon if motivated I might also have a pan of water in the oven to steam and create a softer crust, but usually I don't bother.

 

I also don't keep track of how old our dough is other than to notice a faint sour dough flavor when the dough is older. My dh and the kids love that flavor--I prefer it when the dough is really fresh.

[bookfiend]

Huh - well I baked from the first batch again today. This time, I shaped the dough into a longish loaf and let it sit out for nearly 2 hours, until it clearly wasn't rising anymore. However, still no additional rise from the oven.

 

I'm going to but an oven thermometer and check the temp. I have a convection oven, so the bread finishes much faster than the stated times in the book. It tastes great but is rather dense and homely. :confused:

 

I did replace about 2/3 of the white flour for fresh ground whole wheat. That shouldn't make a difference should it?

 

thanks for the encouragment.

[Dawn in OH]

I've been using the book for about a year now and have had great success with it. The only thing, so far, that hasn't turned out well for me was the whole wheat sandwich bread. I only tried making it the one time.

 

While you can substitute wheat flour in recipes, you generally need to add a bit more water if you substitute a significant amount of flour. I've never used freshly ground wheat flour so I don't know if that makes a difference or not.

 

It's possible that your yeast wasn't fresh. Unfortunately, since I haven't had many problems with the dough I can't offer a lot of advice on what went wrong. Definitely try again.

[OrganicAnn]

Try looking at the information on American's Test Kitchen website. They took this type of bread and looked for the ways to perfect it.

[oraetstudia]

I did replace about 2/3 of the white flour for fresh ground whole wheat. That shouldn't make a difference should it?

 

thanks for the encouragment.

 

That can make a huge difference actually. Not only does whole wheat need more liquid in general, but to get a good rise you also need to add vital wheat gluten and mix things in a different order.

 

If you get the second book "Healthy Breads in Five Minutes a Day" they go into the details of getting good bread from whole wheat.

 

You are definitely getting a dense loaf, because you have too much whole wheat for the recipe.

[cjzimmer1]

Huh - well I baked from the first batch again today. This time, I shaped the dough into a longish loaf and let it sit out for nearly 2 hours, until it clearly wasn't rising anymore. However, still no additional rise from the oven.

 

I'm going to but an oven thermometer and check the temp. I have a convection oven, so the bread finishes much faster than the stated times in the book. It tastes great but is rather dense and homely. :confused:

 

I did replace about 2/3 of the white flour for fresh ground whole wheat. That shouldn't make a difference should it?

 

thanks for the encouragment.

 

Did you add extra gluten? Without it, I would expect it to be like you describe. I know the healthy bread book uses a ratio of 50/50 white and whole wheat if I remember correctly but I know you have to add gluten to get the lift and even then it's not as light as the all white version.

 

Even if you normally make wheat bread, I would go back to the beginning and make the dough again exactly as the recipe states and use all white flour. Once you get a better feel for how this method works than you can start playing around with adding whole wheat. I get a very different bread when I add whole wheat than when I just use white flour.

[erica471]

I've had the book for about a year or so but have only begun to try it out this month. So far our favorite is the Light Whole Wheat. I tried to make pita bread but it was a fail. The first time I tried it I rolled it out too thick, the second time too thin.

 

Has anyone tried the bagels or bialys? I'm really intrigued!

 

I just received the second book (healthy breads) last week and it looks just as good.

[bookfiend]

Most sincerely hoping this is proper board form, and asking a second related question is not considered resurrecting an old thread. Welcoming correction if there is a better way to manage this.

 

Update: I bought new yeast. I've now made the bread three times and the last two batches were superb tasting and of decent size. As recommended, I increased the rise time to 90-120 minutes. However, there still isn't a secondary, oven spring that the book discusses. Any thoughts on what could be done.

 

I'm making free form, round, wheat loaves on a baking stone. I'm also following the directions for the moist oven method.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bookfiend

[AngieW in Texas]

I have had great luck with the challah recipe even though I make it with 3 cups white flour and 4 cups white whole wheat flour instead of 7 cups white. I don't make any other changes to the recipe and end up with fabulous challah.

 

The bagels didn't turn out well. They were hard and crusty on the outside, but still not finished on the inside.

 

I haven't actually tried many of the recipes. Challah was the 4th thing we tried and my kids demand that I make it all the time because they love it so much.

[keptwoman]

Are you sticking with the recipie now and using only white flour on the basic boule recipie?

I have excellent results with the wheat breads I've made, the gluten free breads... not so much, but I'm working one it.

[bookfiend]

You caught me! I'm an inveterate, recipe fiddler. I've been making the 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread and replacing two of the six whole wheat cups with unbleached, all-purpose white. I also take the last 1/2 -1 cup of dough from the previous batch and mix it into the warm water/milk/yeast/honey combo. This sets for about 30 minutes to make a quasi-sponge. I really don't know much about making bread, mainly reading books about it for (truly) years. Recently, decided to give it a fling, and my family is loving the bread. This process appealed greatly because there isn't any kneeding involved.

 

I didn't think any of those things would affect the oven spring? Maybe I'm exhausting the yeast in the second rise? Would adding gluten make that much difference? I hate to do it.

Edited May 10, 2010 by bookfiend

[keptwoman]

I use the whole wheat sandwich from this site http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/Artisan-Bread-In-Five-Minutes-A-Day.aspx page 6. I use half and half white flour/wholemeal. It works pretty good. I mix the new mix right in the old container with the scraps of old dough. I'm not sure you should be doing that extra mix into the sponge thing, I suspect it might be ending up costing you a bit of rise in the final recipie.

Try the basic boule too, it's yummy!!

[Lovthesurf]

I just thought I would throw out there that I noticed a serious difference when I went from trying to do the 'grapefruit' size ball to using half the batch at once. The larger ball definitely rose better. My next batch of dough I am planning on doubling the recipe in hopes of getting more than 2 loaves before I have to mix again!!

 

Honestly, I've never had a loaf NOT turn out good. I've never baked a load that small (I usually bake half a batch in one big loaf), so I don't know if dough ball size matters. I will say I don't think I've ever let it sit for just 40 minutes. I'm guessing I've usually let it go an hour to an hour and a half. I tend to use the wheat bread recipe (in the healthy bread book) and I think it calls for 40 mintues with fresh (unrefrigerated dough) and 1 1/2 hours for the refrigerated stuff.

 

Anyways, I'd try it again and let it sit longer. Maybe your fridge runs colder than normal and the dough had more warming up to do.

[LauraGB]

You caught me! I'm an inveterate, recipe fiddler. I've been making the 100% Whole Wheat Sandwich Bread and replacing two of the six whole wheat cups with unbleached, all-purpose white. I also take the last 1/2 -1 cup of dough from the previous batch and mix it into the warm water/milk/yeast/honey combo. This sets for about 30 minutes to make a quasi-sponge. I really don't know much about making bread, mainly reading books about it for (truly) years. Recently, decided to give it a fling, and my family is loving the bread. This process appealed greatly because there isn't any kneeding involved.

 

I didn't think any of those things would affect the oven spring? Maybe I'm exhausting the yeast in the second rise? Would adding gluten make that much difference? I hate to do it.

 

Yes, I think gluten would make a huge difference. I read (either on their website or maybe in my Healthy Bread book) that they were able to perfect and alter the earlier recipes to yield a better loaf. There is a 100% Whole Wheat bread in the second book (HB) that I make without any probs at all. However, it really isn't 100%, because 2 of the 7 1/2 c of flour are white, not wheat - like what you have done with yours. Another big difference I noticed is the addition of 1/4 c gluten, and an increase in liquid - 4c (just water in the new recipe), as well as the second rise time of 90 min.

 

(There are several updated, whole grain recipes in the new book, though; some use milk, some use eggs, honey, etc. But the one I'm talking about above is the master recipe.)

Edited May 12, 2010 by LauraGB

[LauraGB]

Ooh - and I had another thought, too. Okay, two thoughts. One, if you handle the dough too much when you're shaping it, it squeezes out the air, resulting in a denser loaf. It really does need to be done quickly. The other is about scooping. It says "unsifted" flour, but if you just reach in and scoop and level, the flour is really still kind of packed and will add way more flour to the bowl than what is called for. I use the scoop to lighten the top of my canister of flour a little and then lightly scoop it out. I lost count one day, so I had to start over, and I found I had an extra 1/2 c of flour when I should have only had 5! That would have resulted in a dense loaf, too, because I wouldn't have had the presence of mind to add more water at that time. Do you have a way to weigh it instead of using a scoop?

[Vida Winter]

Huh - well I baked from the first batch again today. This time, I shaped the dough into a longish loaf and let it sit out for nearly 2 hours, until it clearly wasn't rising anymore. However, still no additional rise from the oven.

 

I'm going to but an oven thermometer and check the temp. I have a convection oven, so the bread finishes much faster than the stated times in the book. It tastes great but is rather dense and homely. :confused:

 

I did replace about 2/3 of the white flour for fresh ground whole wheat. That shouldn't make a difference should it?

 

thanks for the encouragment.

 

This changes the whole dynamic of the recipe. Whole wheat does not behave the same way at all (I have tried). Try it exactly as the recipe is written and see if it makes a difference.

 

If I change anything at all it is to add a bit *less* flour than is called for because the mixing gets difficult toward that last bit of flour (at that point I am mixing with my hands).

 

I'm assuming it is a flour problem but another thing could be that the yeast is not fresh.

 

Also try this: make a batch of dough (normal batch, not enormous) and let it sit out a couple hours on the kitchen counter (covered), then scoop loaves, let rise a bit more and bake. The dough will be "friendlier" than when you take it out of the fridge. It might be easier to learn to work with it this way.

 

Later on (using the refrigerated method) you will be more used to working with the dough.