Help me plan for my step-dd11???!!! sorry a little long

[thowell]

A little history; my sdd11 is in 4th grade at PS and struggling very bad. She was held back in K and we had her tested. She tested a few points above a learning disability. The counselor said she would always struggle with learning and require extra time. At the time, we convinced her mother to put her into a small private school( we weren't hs at the time). This helped alot because there were only 9 kids in the class. She attended from K (repeat year) - 2nd. Her mother moved and put her back in PS. Now here we are the end of 4th and she is falling way behind. Soooooo.... to my delight her mother has agreed to let her HS with us. Now my question, I have no idea what to use for her. History, Science, Bible, and reading I have covered. I think she will do ok in Grammar I am thinking of GWG. As for math I dont have a clue. She has a very hard time with her facts and if I had to guess I would say she is maybe on a 3rd grade level. She doesnt know any of her facts from memory and has been allowed to use her fingers. Now into multiplication and division she is having a really hard time. What is the best way to help her catch up? Should I look for a mastery math or Spiral? Both of my other girls use spiral and are fine with it but they tend to catch on rather quickly. Is there a math designed for children with learning disabilities? Her mother knows nothing about HS so she is depending on me to do it all. Any suggestions?????

[Ellie]

A little history; my sdd11 is in 4th grade at PS and struggling very bad. She was held back in K and we had her tested. She tested a few points above a learning disability. The counselor said she would always struggle with learning and require extra time. At the time, we convinced her mother to put her into a small private school( we weren't hs at the time). This helped alot because there were only 9 kids in the class. She attended from K (repeat year) - 2nd. Her mother moved and put her back in PS. Now here we are the end of 4th and she is falling way behind. Soooooo.... to my delight her mother has agreed to let her HS with us. Now my question, I have no idea what to use for her. History, Science, Bible, and reading I have covered. I think she will do ok in Grammar I am thinking of GWG. As for math I dont have a clue. She has a very hard time with her facts and if I had to guess I would say she is maybe on a 3rd grade level. She doesnt know any of her facts from memory and has been allowed to use her fingers. Now into multiplication and division she is having a really hard time. What is the best way to help her catch up? Should I look for a mastery math or Spiral? Both of my other girls use spiral and are fine with it but they tend to catch on rather quickly. Is there a math designed for children with learning disabilities? Her mother knows nothing about HS so she is depending on me to do it all. Any suggestions?????

JMHO.:)

 

I would make sure her reading skills are up to par; either Spalding or SWR would be my recommendation. I wouldn't worry about *grammar* yet, not until you actually see, with your own eyeballs, how she reads and writes on her own. (I know you said you have "reading" covered, but you didn't say what, exactly, you are doing.)

 

I don't think it matters whether your math materials are spiral or mastery. Really. You might consider just working with her on basic arithmetic until you get a feel for what she does and doesn't know, and go from there.

 

The truth is that you can't really, truly be sure that she has learning disabilities until you have her in your care, even though there was "testing" at the school. The homeschooling world is populated with scores of people who began hsing their supposedly learning-disabled children and discovered early on that, in fact, it was a teaching disability--the school's fault--and not a learning disability.

[TechWife]

As for math I dont have a clue. She has a very hard time with her facts and if I had to guess I would say she is maybe on a 3rd grade level. She doesnt know any of her facts from memory and has been allowed to use her fingers. Now into multiplication and division she is having a really hard time. What is the best way to help her catch up? Should I look for a mastery math or Spiral? Both of my other girls use spiral and are fine with it but they tend to catch on rather quickly. Is there a math designed for children with learning disabilities? Her mother knows nothing about HS so she is depending on me to do it all. Any suggestions?????

 

Take a look at math u see to see what you think. The fact that she is using her fingers makes me wonder if a program with manipulatives built in wouldn't help her gain understanding and increase fluency. Keep in mind that it takes some kids longer than others to memorize their tables - it's ok as long as you keep plugging at it. I've heard a lot of people say that math u see helped their kids really understand math and that they don't use the manipulatives forever, I don't think there's a risk of becoming dependent on the manipulatives.

[rawbanana]

My daughter didnt know any of her math facts before we started Math U See. We started my 2 older daugthers in the Alpha level in the fall even though they were above the age group for it (they were then, just turned 9 and 7.5). My 9yr old blazed thru it and, then blazed thru Beta and is now almost 1/2 way thru Gamma (which is 3rd grade basically).

We tried Miquon math and HATED it.

But my girls love Math U See. Math has gone from the most dreaded subject to the most looked forward to =)

Cant recommend it enough!

 

Anna

[thowell]

Take a look at math u see to see what you think. The fact that she is using her fingers makes me wonder if a program with manipulatives built in wouldn't help her gain understanding and increase fluency. Keep in mind that it takes some kids longer than others to memorize their tables - it's ok as long as you keep plugging at it. I've heard a lot of people say that math u see helped their kids really understand math and that they don't use the manipulatives forever, I don't think there's a risk of becoming dependent on the manipulatives.

 

 

This maybe true. I was working with her last week on some of her homework and she kept trying to subtract a larger number from a smaller number. I tried to explain it but she wasn't understanding. I showed her the concept using my dd6 counting cubes and she got it. Is Math-U-See the only program that uses the manipulatives? Just wanting to cover all the choices.

[thowell]

JMHO.:)

 

I would make sure her reading skills are up to par; either Spalding or SWR would be my recommendation. I wouldn't worry about *grammar* yet, not until you actually see, with your own eyeballs, how she reads and writes on her own. (I know you said you have "reading" covered, but you didn't say what, exactly, you are doing.)

 

I don't think it matters whether your math materials are spiral or mastery. Really. You might consider just working with her on basic arithmetic until you get a feel for what she does and doesn't know, and go from there.

 

The truth is that you can't really, truly be sure that she has learning disabilities until you have her in your care, even though there was "testing" at the school. The homeschooling world is populated with scores of people who began hsing their supposedly learning-disabled children and discovered early on that, in fact, it was a teaching disability--the school's fault--and not a learning disability.

 

 

Thank you, this is a good idea. I really dont know what her reading level is just that she uses the AR system at the PS. We dont use a formal reading program here my girls both do really well with narration. This is something, along with dictation, that she has never been introduced to so I guess I will wait and see her reading level before I worry about Grammar.

[TechWife]

Is Math-U-See the only program that uses the manipulatives? Just wanting to cover all the choices.

 

There are other programs that use manipulatives, Miquon comes to mind. I like Math U See better because the manipulatives make more sense to me and because of the videos for the teachers (many students watch them as well). I tried Miquon and the teacher materials were less than helpful to me. Others might prefer it. Sometimes it just comes down to a matter of personal preference.

[thowell]

I am sooooo confused. I think she will do better with a mastery approach but I dont know where to start. She doesnt know any of her addition or subtraction from memory and she doesnt know her place value. She can add and subtract as long as she can use her fingers. When I ask her to write two thousand three. She write 203. What do I do?????? I want her to feel encouraged as PS has left her hating school. What program will work the best????????

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Take a look at math u see to see what you think. The fact that she is using her fingers makes me wonder if a program with manipulatives built in wouldn't help her gain understanding and increase fluency. Keep in mind that it takes some kids longer than others to memorize their tables - it's ok as long as you keep plugging at it. I've heard a lot of people say that math u see helped their kids really understand math and that they don't use the manipulatives forever, I don't think there's a risk of becoming dependent on the manipulatives.

 

 

:iagree:

[karensk]

Math-U-See came to my mind, as well. Though I haven't used it, friends of mine have. I think it'll be good to have the video instruction...someone else to introduce the concept. Also, I believe the levels are labeled in a way that won't make her feel behind.

 

SM is also mastery-based, but covers more topics per academic year by spending less time per topic compared to MUS. Both programs use manipulatives (SM: you'll need to do the activities in HIG), and both have review of past topics. But I think MUS sounds like a better match for your situation.

 

HTH!

[zookeeperof3]

Mastering Mathematics is written for learning disabled children, even children with Downs Syndrome have used it. I use it with my son (add/adhd/dyslexic). It is mastery based, divided into 6 workbooks. One workbook for each operation. The Teacher's pages also tell you how to make it grade appropriate by doing pages from each book. It uses fact wheels and counting strips, which are included, but you have to cut them out. Here's the link http://www.masterypublications.com/ It's not a bad price for 6-8 years of math, I bought mine used on homeschool classifieds.

Best Wishes,

Kim

[jclinton]

A couple of thoughts for you -

First - I'd go mastery - something like MUS might be just the ticket for her. Also if she has a slight learning disability (which is a pretty broad term) find out how she learns - is she visual ie needs manipulatives, is she an auditory learner who needs to hear it, tactile etc. Finding out how she learns is going to really help with her success.

Second I have dd turn her paper sideways so the lines form columns - you can accomplish the same thing with graph paper. What happens is they have trouble keeping things lined up and the columns help them follow better.

Meet her where she is not where you hope/want her to be. If she uses her fingers ok - maybe she is visual/tactile - maybe you could find a suitable manipulative for her. Also know that she might not memorize things as readily as your children. She might not have the perfect recall. If that's the case make sure she understands the concept, can do the problem (ie knows that 3X6 is the same as 6+6+6) etc.

Hope this helps,

JoAnne

[diaperjoys]

I'd think MUS Alpha would be a nice, comfortable place to start. Then perhaps she could take the diagnostic tests for CLE and see where she places in that - that would give you a feel for her overall math level, and if you end up needing a spiral program later for review (my son can't do without that), you'd have something ready to pull in.

[flmochamom]

She doesnt know any of her addition or subtraction from memory and she doesnt know her place value. She can add and subtract as long as she can use her fingers. When I ask her to write two thousand three. She write 203. What do I do?????? I want her to feel encouraged as PS has left her hating school. What program will work the best????????

 

What about adding in some games to help cement the add/subtraction facts? Easy games such as war, or make 10. Peggy Kaye's book Games for Math and Games for Learning are fantastic resources. There are also gazillion online (fun) math drill sites, ask if you want suggestions. Perhaps she just needs more consistent practice with the facts, like 10 minutes a day, every day. Or speed drills.

 

Try reciting facts while walking, some kids (mine included) have needed to jump on the mini-trampoline to learn multiplication facts.

 

You could have her make number facts triangles -- cut piece of paper into triangle shape and write a number in each corner (i.e. 5, 2, 3) then place the appropriate sign in between the numbers. Or just posting the facts on the wall.

 

Does she respond to songs, MUS does sell a CD with number fact songs, there other others out there as well.

 

I would just try a multi-pronged approach until you learn how she best responds.

 

Regarding place value, I strongly suggest using manipulatives. MUS may be the easiest to jump into. It provides some great teaching advice. (I like Miquon better for more concrete, conceptual learning, but it does take some getting used to). You could even make some manipulatives until you figure out how to proceed.

 

Singapore uses number disks (lots of circles with different place values on each, i.e. one, ten, hundred, thousand). Then show child how to make 2003 -- 2 thousand disks, no hundreds, no tens, 3 ones disk. Practice large numbers as it relates to the Census (maybe just using numbers that are real to her, how many kids in her class, school, town) Also the National Virtual Library of Manipulatives has an interactive place value lesson that your dd may benefit from.

 

And, of course, there are the Math Start series that she might benefit from.

 

HTH

[mooooom]

I just wanted to say that some kids will never do this. My ds is now 15 and I've given up on him learning them. We used Miquon, Singapore and I had him drilling for years. What I did manage was to teach him skip counting songs, so he can do math facts if he sings the song in his head and use his fingers to count. He is now in Chalkdust Algebra 2, and the funniest thing is, now that I let him use his calculator he is a math whiz. He is really good at math, he gets the concepts easily. Now I feel like I held him back for years by making him try to do math without a calculator.

 

Btw, this kid can also has a hard time w/ the memorization of foreign language, I use a lot of video and reading for him to osmose what he can.

[thowell]

What about spelling? I am thinking AAS after alot of looking. She is reading on a 4th grade level according to the reading test, but her spelling is really bad. She does seem to do better with some sort of visual/tactical approach. And thanks for all the advice. I kind of feel like I am sinking since this is new to me. I am sure I will be asking you great ladies alot!!!

[Lolly]

I am going to make a different suggestion for math. MUS is a great program. But, unless you are planning on really accelerating the pace, I would not recommend starting it in 4th grade with Alpha. I suggest using a more standard program, they are really all pretty good (I really like Rod&Staff), and focusing on math facts separately. When working on the standard book, allow her to use a math facts chart for basic facts. Don't hold her back in math just because she still counts on her fingers.

 

For spelling, you might want to look at Sequential Spelling. I have found it to work well for children reading at her level.

[thowell]

I am going to make a different suggestion for math. MUS is a great program. But, unless you are planning on really accelerating the pace, I would not recommend starting it in 4th grade with Alpha. I suggest using a more standard program, they are really all pretty good (I really like Rod&Staff), and focusing on math facts separately. When working on the standard book, allow her to use a math facts chart for basic facts. Don't hold her back in math just because she still counts on her fingers.

 

For spelling, you might want to look at Sequential Spelling. I have found it to work well for children reading at her level.

 

This is what I was thinking so I decided on BJU for math now I am trying to tackle spelling. What do you like more about sequential spelling than AAS?

[mom4him]

I am sooooo confused. I think she will do better with a mastery approach but I dont know where to start. She doesnt know any of her addition or subtraction from memory and she doesnt know her place value. She can add and subtract as long as she can use her fingers. When I ask her to write two thousand three. She write 203. What do I do?????? I want her to feel encouraged as PS has left her hating school. What program will work the best????????

 

I just started my two in CLE math in Jan. Neither of them were proficient with their math facts when we started, used fingers, number line, multiplied by adding, etc.

In just a little over 2 months they are doing great. I did start them both a grade level behind but they will be caught up by this time next year as we school year around and math/LA are two subjects that we almost Never take a day off of.

You can go to their site and look at samples, download and print diagnostics, etc.

[Lolly]

This is what I was thinking so I decided on BJU for math now I am trying to tackle spelling. What do you like more about sequential spelling than AAS?

 

I have never used AAS. Actually, I don't even know what it is. I have used Sequential Spelling with good results.

 

BJU has excellent materials. I've been impressed with pretty much everything I have gotten from them. I think you will be happy with it.