college bound/what test to take when questions

[rockala]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a dd in 9th this year and we have taken the Iowa tests every year since 4th garde. I was about to order the annual spectrum test prep and do not see one for 9th.

 

Should I move her to a different test this year, and if so, which one?? What should the next few years of testing look like? For those of you whose kids have gotten into college what tests, if any seemed most important. I know she will obviosuly need to do the SAT later, but what else and when and what prep books?

 

She did take the PSAT in 7th grade as we were considering a private for 9th. It looks like we are staying home and dd is interested in medical, so I

want to make sure we will be properly prepared.

 

Kathy

[choirfarm]

HI,

 

I have a 9th grade son. We are lucky in that for 25 bucks the local Christian school lets us take the SAT-10 in the spring. He has done that every year since we started homeschooling him in the 4th grade. He and I were talking and this will be his last year to do that sort of standardized testing. Next year I will have him take the PSAT for practice and then possibly an AP test or two in the spring. His junior year he will take the PSAT in the fall and probably the SAT and ACT in the spring. He may take more AP exams or sAT II. Senior year will be more AP or SAT II. I just don't think he needs to take the SAT-10 when he will be taking all of the other tests.

 

Christine

[AngieW in Texas]

My oldest didn't do any testing for 9th grade.

 

My middle will likely take the SAT-II test US history and possibly for biology as well.

 

For 10th, my oldest took the PSAT for practice and also took the COMPASS test for admission to dual credit classes at the community college. My middle will be in 10th next year. She'll definitely do the PSAT and the COMPASS test. She may also take one or two SAT-II tests.

 

I didn't really know about the SAT-II tests until my oldest was in 10th grade. At that point, my dd didn't want to do the US history test because she didn't want to start over to study for it. I was going to have her take the chemistry SAT-II, but Spectrum didn't do nearly enough to prepare her for the SAT-II. At this point, I don't know if I'll have my oldest take any of the SAT-II tests. She just doesn't care enough to study so she'll do well enough for the tests to help.

 

My middle dd does care, so I think it would be good for her to take some SAT-II tests.

[Musicmom]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a dd in 9th this year and we have taken the Iowa tests every year since 4th garde. I was about to order the annual spectrum test prep and do not see one for 9th.

 

Should I move her to a different test this year, and if so, which one?? What should the next few years of testing look like? For those of you whose kids have gotten into college what tests, if any seemed most important. I know she will obviosuly need to do the SAT later, but what else and when and what prep books?

 

She did take the PSAT in 7th grade as we were considering a private for 9th. It looks like we are staying home and dd is interested in medical, so I

want to make sure we will be properly prepared.

 

Kathy

 

Hi Kathy,

 

If your state requires annual standardized achievement testing (as mine does), then I'd suggest you just stay with the Iowa to meet that requirement. The PSAT and SAT are aptitude tests which won't meet the requirement. The ACT is more like an achievement test, so it might, but check with your state homeschool organization to be sure. If you don't have a testing requirement for your state, then I'd say just do the Iowa again this year if you want to, and then not do it anymore when your dd starts doing the PSAT, SAT, etc.

 

The Iowa test changes at the high school level: it's called the ITED (Iowa Test of Educational Development) and is different than the ITBS which you've done. So that may be the reason there's no spectrum test prep for it. The ITED is actually shorter and more streamlined than the ITBS (yay!), and if your dd has been doing the Iowa each year, I don't think she'd need the test prep anyway. Just having done the ITBS is prep enough.

 

For the college tests, here's the timeline we followed for my ds:

 

9th grade:

ITED (for the state requirement)

Two SAT Subject tests in June (for subjects ds had just finished courses in)

 

10th grade:

ITED (for the state requirement)

PSAT in October (for practice)

ACT in spring (also for practice, but ds scored really high, so he didn't retake)

Two more SAT Subject tests in June

 

11th grade:

(No ITED--ds had been testing a year ahead and had done them all; also was beyond the age range for which the state required testing)

PSAT in October (for real--this is when it counts to qualify for National Merit)

SAT in December (all that prep for the PSAT really helped)

 

This left time so ds could have retested on the SAT or ACT in the winter or spring of 11th grade if he had needed to. It also spread out the testing, but even so, by the time ds was done in 11th grade, he never wanted to see another test prep book again!! :tongue_smilie:

 

HTH! I'm now starting this whole cycle over with dd who is in 9th this year. Sigh.

[Sharon in MD]

Hi! I can't help you on the side of standardized tests for the purpose of meeting state reqs, but I hope I can be of some small help on the topic of testing towards admissions.

 

I would definitely take the PSAT each year that you can, however, it only counts in 11th grade for the NMSQT. It is good practice and a fair predictor of SAT scores...ie if she recieved a 54 in Critical Reading as a Jr, then when she took the SAT as a Jr, her Critical reading would probably hit pretty close to 540, without additional prep.

 

I would not purchase separate PSAT materials for prep...I would just use SAT prep materials.

 

As for the SAT or ACT for admissions....be careful about taking the test officially before she is ready. I cannot stress that strongly enough. Although college board allows you the freedom to select the test date that you send the scores from to the colleges, not all colleges agree to this. Some schools still demand to see all scores....which means if you go out and just try it and blow it, they could potentially see it. Far wiser to practice in a safe environmet where the scores aren't going anywhere until you are ready.

 

Now some will argue that universities that demand to see all the scores are using super scoring, which means they pick the highest of your math, critical reading and writing scores and create a "new" score using these....not always true....and even if they are super scoring, a really low score in an area IS going to stick in the mind of an admissions counselor, even if they aren't supposed to "count" it. That is straight from the mouth of a highly experienced college admissions couselor that I personnaly know and trust.

 

Which one to choose ACT vs SAT, I'd practice at home and prep for the one my kid is best at...there isn't really any advantage to having both officially under your belt.... For some kids one test is clearly better than the other....prep for the one that will best show off your child. ACT publishes concordance tables that compare SAT and ACT scores so you can judge between them

 

As far as SAT IIs go.... you should take a look at the requirements of the schools you are considering. Many do require 2 SAT IIs and a couple require 3 SAT IIs for part of the admissions package. For students applying to technical and science fields there are often specific tests that are required in the SAT IIs. But you should keep tabs on the schools that you think are good prospects because the requirements easily change year to year.... better to over prepare than under.

 

In terms of which SAT II's and when...it's best to take them as you go...if you have a strong Bio course then prep for the bio test that June....but do run practice tests at home...always test the waters before jumping in. And be forewarned....several SAT IIs to watch out for...the Chem test is notoriously difficult....don't try it unless you are doing a strong AP level chem course well.....same for Physics. The foreign language tests are skewed by native speakers taking the test....so you need to be really strong to have a good showing there. Safer SAT IIs are Lit and Math I...they are closer to the SAT I math and Critical reading tests, also the History tests. And, unless you are applying to a school that requires the SAT II Math IIC test, don't take it, take Math I C instead....much better to have the higher score in the easier test...say 700 + than a sketchy score in IIc..say 500's... If they aren't asking for it, don't feel like you need to prove it...why make it harder?

 

APs are a tough question...APs are generally not part of the "admissions" package, but rather part of the advanced credit or placement part....but, and this is a serious consideration in my mind, as homeschoolers, we often use AP test scores to "prove" the validity of the programs we have created. I think APs tests are great for showing the rigor of a homeschool program. But, remember, you can't claim it as AP on the transcript, unless it is part of a recognized AP program. You absolutely CAN still do the AP test to show superior mastery....and you may be able to get some advanced credits....but think carefully about what courses you would really want your freshman pre-med student to skip. You should probably consider having her take the core courses from the basic level at the intended university. Just as an example...when our son was getting ready to apply to engineering programs all the schools we considered said not to worry about AP Calc or AP Physics or AP Chem credits....they WOULD NOT grant credit even for a 5 because they expect them to take their entry level course to ensure they all have the same foundation. The only APs they would credit, were outside of the major....(we did however CLEP bio to avoid that one...since ds hates bio).

 

Which actually brings up a differnt point....check into the CLEP policies of the schools you are looking at...some will accept CLEP for things and CLEP is generally easier than AP....and prep materials are widely available and reliable.

 

Gosh, I've gone on here....but I can't find anything to really delete.... I do hope I've been helpful and not a bore.

[jld]

Thanks, Sharon. A lot of us are watching this thread with interest.

[Brigid in NC]

Without restating what others have said, I'd like to give you our variations on the prior posters' comments. I have a freshman who earned a full ride scholarship at a state university and is majoring in aerospace engineering.

 

This is what we did for my now-graduated ds (and I intend for my 10th grader). We started with the ACT in 9th, and my ds took it in each year of high school in the spring. Unlike the SAT policies (of the past), only the individual ACT scores you choose, are sent to colleges. It was good practice, and his scores improved a lot over the four sittings. I think this was due to the normal -- getting more schooling under his belt -- as well as to his learning to be a more skillful test-taker with practice.

 

My ds took the PSAT in October of 10th and 11th. A sizable gain. Well worth the "practice" in 10th.

 

He took the SAT in May of 10th, June of 11th, and Oct. of 12th. Scores improved dramatically from 10th to 11th. A slight gain in 12th.

 

He took 1 SAT II in June of 10th, 3 SAT IIs and 3 AP tests in May of 11th, and 3 APs in May of 12th. The SAT II he took in 10th he re-took in 11th after one more year of the subject (chemistry), and his score improved dramatically. While AP tests are not part of the admissions process, we felt the 11th grade APs would validate the rigor of his coursework, and we knew the 12th grade APs would enable him to earn college credit at the schools he was considering attending.

 

Every family is going to have a different testing plan -- and each plan will be right for their student. :001_smile: The most valuable advice that I can offer (and that I wish had been offered to me early-on) is, in trying to decide what direction you want to take with the SAT/ACT -- and especially the SAT II and AP tests, I highly recommend that you take a campus tour, and sit in on an admissions talk (that every school offers almost daily) at a school that might be of interest to your student. The admissions office talks (they last about an hour) that we heard in the summer after 11th would have been far more valuable to us if we had heard them in 9th -- when we could actually re-tailor our courses and testing. The admissions sessions at all the campuses we visited were extremely valuable in clarifying school policies on superscoring (all that we visited did), SAT II/AP test preferences/requirements, and course rigor expectations.

 

Very best of luck. :-)

~Brigid

Edited February 26, 2010 by Brigid in NC

[Kareni]

I agree with most of the advice that you've received already. Your child's testing path will differ based on your child's interests and what opportunities you make or are available for your child.

 

While I concur with the majority of Sharon's post, I do have one slight quibble.

 

Safer SAT IIs are Lit and Math I...they are closer to the SAT I math and Critical reading tests, also the History tests. And, unless you are applying to a school that requires the SAT II Math IIC test, don't take it, take Math I C instead....much better to have the higher score in the easier test...say 700 + than a sketchy score in IIc..say 500's... If they aren't asking for it, don't feel like you need to prove it...why make it harder?

 

My understanding is that the testing curve is more generous on the SAT subject test in Math level II than in Math level I. So, if your child has covered the subject matter in the higher level test, I'd suggest he or she take that one instead.

 

I also strongly suggest taking practice tests in the SAT and ACT at home to determine which one better suits your child. I had my oldest sit a practice SAT test at home at the beginning of 9th, 10th, and 11th grades to get a feel for what areas might need attention.

 

That said, here was her testing schedule throughout high school ~

 

9th grade ~ National Latin Exam

 

10th grade ~ National Latin Exam, AP US History, SAT subject test in US History

 

11th grade ~ National Latin Exam,

PSAT, SAT, AP Comparative Politics and Gov't, AP Latin, SAT subject tests in Latin and Math Level II

 

12th grade ~ National Latin Exam, National Greek Exam, AP Statistics

 

11th grade was brutal in terms of testing! (The above list does not include those practice SAT tests taken at home or the homeschool testing that is required in our state.) The advantage though of having most tests completed by the end of junior year is that those results can be used for college application purposes. This is valuable given that many colleges (by no means all) have applications that are due in the fall of senior year.

 

Good luck with your planning!

Regards,

Kareni

[creekland]

We got by easy on the testing. My oldest did the SAT once in March of his Junior year, then the ACT once in fall of his senior year. That was it. I was going to have him take SAT 2 tests, but it turned out none of the colleges he wanted to go to wanted them, so we skipped it. He also didn't do any AP or Clep. He had one cc class in English that will transfer for credit.

 

He's in - going to his first choice (private) college - with superb merit aid. The merit aid came from his scores, recommendations, and interviews/competition as well as his choice in major.

 

My middle son took the PSAT sophomore year (I highly recommend this) and will take the ACT this coming April (still sophomore year). If he scores in the 30's as I expect, he'll never take the ACT again. If he scores lower, we'll work on any gaps and retake it later. As a Junior he'll take the PSAT again. If he's competitive for National Merit Finalist, then he'll take the SAT. If not, we'll skip it, esp if his ACT was high.

 

Over this next spring and summer I'll be checking with colleges he might want to attend to see if any SAT subject tests are needed. If so, we'll do them. If not, we'll skip them. Then we need to decide whether to look at AP tests or cc classes to line him up for his future (confirmation of mommy grades). CC classes are easier to do around here. We have to drive a bit to find AP testing. AP is much cheaper and harder in content - therefore better - IMO, but not easy to find.

 

My kids did do test prep and practice tests at home. It gave me a good idea what to expect on the real things.

[rockala]

overwhelmed. All of it is awesome and not at all a bore, thank you everyone for all the time you have taken. I realize though I am uneducated in all the various test that are available. I did not even know there were SAT II. DUHH

 

That said, I did a quick look for the ACT and found it in our area pretty regularly. We always have done the IOWA at the end of the school year in June. I always had her complete the Spectrum test prep first and she always did well.

 

I need to find out more about where and how the PSAT is taken. She did take the SSAT so maybe it is similarly offered.

 

I almost need a list of which tests can hurt vs def won't hurt.

 

For instance I can have her do the ACT and ITED and no will see results unless I want them too right?

 

But for the PSAT and SAT and SAT II's that might not be/or is not the case?

 

I do not know anything about the compass test so need to check into that one.

 

The National Latin Exam is an option, however she is just finishing Latin Prep 1 from galore park this year and was going to do hebrew next year.

 

I am so glad for all you responses, thank you again,

Kathy

[Sharon in MD]

The ACT and the SAT are offered regularly through the school year. For the most part the schedule will go something like this:

ACT Sept, Oct, Dec, Feb, Apr, Jun (see http://www.actstudent.org/regist/dates.html) for the actual dates for next year.

 

SAT Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Mar, Jun go to http://www.collegeboard.com to reach the main site. I'm sure it is there somewhere, but I'm not certain of the precise URL.

 

You will have to register with College Board for the SAT or SAT II's for the PSAT, read this information http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/psat/reg/homeschool.html You have to register with a local school to take the test. The PSAT is offer once yearly in mid Oct. It is a national test date (kind of like the SSAT only it is one day-give or take for various exceptions).

 

The PSAT is a "safe" test, the scores don't go to any colleges (unless you decide to send them to an athletic coach because you're child is being recruited or if you send them to a special program like a specialty camp for gifted children, that sort of thing. ) And I do mean YOU send them...literally, make a copy put it in an envelope and mail it. The exception to this would be for the NMSQT scholarships.... also, The PSAT is very similar to the SAT.

 

SSAT, PSAT and SAT are all written by the same overall company. SSAT is the baby brother of the PSAT and SAT...but the SSAT has analogies while PSAT and SAT no longer have those.

 

ACT scores are not sent unless you request that they be sent; you select which scores to send.

 

PSAT scores are not sent any where....it is safe. PSAT only "counts" in a student's jr year, when it is used as the NMSQT for scholarship. and in that case it only "counts" for very high scorers.

 

SAT and SAT II's are the ones you have to watch... some schools do request to see all scores...so if you take it and bomb it, you still might have to share it.

 

Hope this helps a bit more!

Hang in there, you'll be slinging acronyms soon with the rest of us!

:lol:

[TravelingChris]

THe PSAT is also one that no one will see. THe SAT and SAT 2 are a different matter.

[creekland]

The ACT and the SAT are offered regularly through the school year. For the most part the schedule will go something like this:

ACT Sept, Oct, Dec, Feb, Apr, Jun (see http://www.actstudent.org/regist/dates.html) for the actual dates for next year.

 

 

 

Double check when the test is offered in your location. The ACT is so rare in our parts that it is only offered by one private school twice a year (Apr & Oct). While it is offered (overall) more often, we'd have to drive quite a distance to take it at a different time.

 

In ACT dominant areas, this might also be true of the SAT, but here, we can get that every single time it is offered (and closer than that private school that offers the ACT).

[TravelingChris]

Oh that is really too bad about the ACT not being give very often in some areas. I hop we don't move there. I won't have one of my daughters ever take the ACT and I will only let the other one take it if she is scoring significantly better on it in practice tests or if she ends up being a NM semi-finalist and needs the score for that. Otherwise, just the ACT here because I like its policies better and feel it is a fairer test.

[creekland]

Oh that is really too bad about the ACT not being give very often in some areas.

 

I'm not all that thrilled with it either as I prefer the ACT to the SAT. I figured it couldn't be true and kept searching and searching hoping for other options, but there aren't any. I even checked at the public school where I work and had my findings confirmed. They were surprised anyone would be interested in the ACT... We just have to schedule around the two offerings we have and drive to the private school (20 minutes) or drive 1 hour+ (IF they offer it on different dates - I didn't check that).

[imeverywoman]

Hi! I can't help you on the side of standardized tests for the purpose of meeting state reqs, but I hope I can be of some small help on the topic of testing towards admissions.

 

I would definitely take the PSAT each year that you can, however, it only counts in 11th grade for the NMSQT. It is good practice and a fair predictor of SAT scores...ie if she recieved a 54 in Critical Reading as a Jr, then when she took the SAT as a Jr, her Critical reading would probably hit pretty close to 540, without additional prep.

 

I would not purchase separate PSAT materials for prep...I would just use SAT prep materials.

 

As for the SAT or ACT for admissions....be careful about taking the test officially before she is ready. I cannot stress that strongly enough. Although college board allows you the freedom to select the test date that you send the scores from to the colleges, not all colleges agree to this. Some schools still demand to see all scores....which means if you go out and just try it and blow it, they could potentially see it. Far wiser to practice in a safe environmet where the scores aren't going anywhere until you are ready.

 

Now some will argue that universities that demand to see all the scores are using super scoring, which means they pick the highest of your math, critical reading and writing scores and create a "new" score using these....not always true....and even if they are super scoring, a really low score in an area IS going to stick in the mind of an admissions counselor, even if they aren't supposed to "count" it. That is straight from the mouth of a highly experienced college admissions couselor that I personnaly know and trust.

 

Which one to choose ACT vs SAT, I'd practice at home and prep for the one my kid is best at...there isn't really any advantage to having both officially under your belt.... For some kids one test is clearly better than the other....prep for the one that will best show off your child. ACT publishes concordance tables that compare SAT and ACT scores so you can judge between them

 

As far as SAT IIs go.... you should take a look at the requirements of the schools you are considering. Many do require 2 SAT IIs and a couple require 3 SAT IIs for part of the admissions package. For students applying to technical and science fields there are often specific tests that are required in the SAT IIs. But you should keep tabs on the schools that you think are good prospects because the requirements easily change year to year.... better to over prepare than under.

 

In terms of which SAT II's and when...it's best to take them as you go...if you have a strong Bio course then prep for the bio test that June....but do run practice tests at home...always test the waters before jumping in. And be forewarned....several SAT IIs to watch out for...the Chem test is notoriously difficult....don't try it unless you are doing a strong AP level chem course well.....same for Physics. The foreign language tests are skewed by native speakers taking the test....so you need to be really strong to have a good showing there. Safer SAT IIs are Lit and Math I...they are closer to the SAT I math and Critical reading tests, also the History tests. And, unless you are applying to a school that requires the SAT II Math IIC test, don't take it, take Math I C instead....much better to have the higher score in the easier test...say 700 + than a sketchy score in IIc..say 500's... If they aren't asking for it, don't feel like you need to prove it...why make it harder?

 

APs are a tough question...APs are generally not part of the "admissions" package, but rather part of the advanced credit or placement part....but, and this is a serious consideration in my mind, as homeschoolers, we often use AP test scores to "prove" the validity of the programs we have created. I think APs tests are great for showing the rigor of a homeschool program. But, remember, you can't claim it as AP on the transcript, unless it is part of a recognized AP program. You absolutely CAN still do the AP test to show superior mastery....and you may be able to get some advanced credits....but think carefully about what courses you would really want your freshman pre-med student to skip. You should probably consider having her take the core courses from the basic level at the intended university. Just as an example...when our son was getting ready to apply to engineering programs all the schools we considered said not to worry about AP Calc or AP Physics or AP Chem credits....they WOULD NOT grant credit even for a 5 because they expect them to take their entry level course to ensure they all have the same foundation. The only APs they would credit, were outside of the major....(we did however CLEP bio to avoid that one...since ds hates bio).

 

Which actually brings up a differnt point....check into the CLEP policies of the schools you are looking at...some will accept CLEP for things and CLEP is generally easier than AP....and prep materials are widely available and reliable.

 

Gosh, I've gone on here....but I can't find anything to really delete.... I do hope I've been helpful and not a bore.

 

What a great post!

[Guest Barb B]

Very true that SAT you have score choice and can send which test dates you want (and not others). Also, yes, some colleges will tell you that they want to see all the scores anyway. That said, college board makes it quite clear that the colleges won't see any scores you don't send them. Also, they won't know that you didn't send all the scores. Not all honest of us - but one college ds is applying to - we are only sending his act scores and none of SATs. They will see all the scores that we want them to see.