I'd love some opinions--dyslexia

[chris's girl]

my 2nd DD has some very.....different qualities. I have a sone with Asperger's, so i am not talking about that kind of different. she is very hard to pin down. i have thought for awhile that she could have dyslexia, btu when i tried to get the school system to help out us homeschoolers, they said dyslexia did not exist and had her read a sign there in their office. when she read it, they said "oh, she's fine". sigh. i'm not saying she IS dyslexic, but i am having a hard time moving past or explaining some of her stuff:

SUPER sloppy

HORRIBLE handwriting (as in it has not improved much if any from kindergarten)

still writes, reads and says some things backwards occasionally at 9.5 years old

reading and spelling is really confusing. i watch her read and think "how'd she get THAT?" and when she spells she totally misses whole sounds, or adds things that are not there. she said a word backwards today.

we are doing wordly wise and my poor little girl just cannot get it. i have to sit there with her while she struggles through definitions, antonyms, synonyms, and does not even complete the writing activities unless i ask her the questions and write down her answers. even then still sometimes she struggles to find the answer in the reading segment.

 

now that i've laid out all my sweet girl's bad qualities, here is where she shines:

inventing. she is a genius!

hilarious outlook on life

very active, spunky, quirky--has a great attitude

quite capable in every way except "schoolish stuff"

wants to be an architect. she one of "those" types

 

any insight? i am going to a dyslexia seminar next month, but without someone's being able to LOOK at her, i am not sure she'll ever get to her true potential.

[LizzyBee]

Check out these websites:

 

http://www.dys-add.com

http://www.mislabeledchild.com

http://www.visualspatial.org

 

Dyslexia most definitely exists, and your dd is exhibiting some of the signs. It shows up on working brain scans, and new research suggests that it is set by 5-6 months of pregnancy.

Edited January 19, 2010 by LizzyBee

[merry gardens]

my 2nd DD has some very.....different qualities. I have a sone with Asperger's' date=' so i am not talking about that kind of different. she is very hard to pin down. i have thought for awhile that she could have dyslexia, btu when i tried to get the school system to help out us homeschoolers, they said dyslexia did not exist and had her read a sign there in their office. when she read it, they said "oh, she's fine". sigh. i'm not saying she IS dyslexic, but i am having a hard time moving past or explaining some of her stuff:

SUPER sloppy

HORRIBLE handwriting (as in it has not improved much if any from kindergarten)

still [b']writes, reads and says some things backwards[/b] occasionally at 9.5 years old

reading and spelling is really confusing. i watch her read and think "how'd she get THAT?" and when she spells she totally misses whole sounds, or adds things that are not there. she said a word backwards today.

we are doing wordly wise and my poor little girl just cannot get it. i have to sit there with her while she struggles through definitions, antonyms, synonyms, and does not even complete the writing activities unless i ask her the questions and write down her answers. even then still sometimes she struggles to find the answer in the reading segment.

 

now that i've laid out all my sweet girl's bad qualities, here is where she shines:

inventing. she is a genius!

hilarious outlook on life

very active, spunky, quirky--has a great attitude

quite capable in every way except "schoolish stuff"

wants to be an architect. she one of "those" types

 

any insight? i am going to a dyslexia seminar next month, but without someone's being able to LOOK at her, i am not sure she'll ever get to her true potential.

 

I would definately recommend you read "The Gift of Dyslexia" by Ron Davis. That book might not cover every form of dyslexia or reading problems, but it probably describes what your daughter is experiencing. He writes about the "thinking in pictures" ability that can interfear with processing words in reading because many words cannot be easily pictured.

 

Several sources that say dyslexia tends to run in families with both autistic and architectual/engineering/creative type people. The ability to think spacially and flip around pictures in the head is great ability for an architect, but when letters and words flip around it can cause confussion in reading.

 

"The Gift of Dyslexia" doesn't covers auditory processing much (if at all), so check out information on Dyslexia that covers auditory processing too. If she's omitting sounds within words, she might not detect the individual sounds. When we speak, we squish all the sounds together into words and some people can't hear the individual sounds. I suggest you evaluate your daughter's auditory processing skills and work to develop that. The website of Barton Reading and Spelling has a screen to identify those who needs lots of work with auditory processing before begining their program, (like my son), but the first level of the Barton program still works exclusively on auditory processing. Auditory processing skills are often lacking in people prone to dyslexia.

 

I'm sorry that the evaluation from your school district didn't address your concerns about your daughter. Many children fall between the cracks because their reading problems aren't severe enough to qualify for special education, but the traditional methods used in schools do not help some children reach their full potential. Be grateful for homeschooling!

[chris's girl]

Thank you SO much!! wow, you guys have been helpful.

 

Merry Gardens, i will be sure to check out that book and that site. We have been homeschooling now for 6 years and i feel called to it. However, nothing has made me more thankful for homeschooling than moving to Las Vegas, NV!

[MerryAtHope]

The Mislabeled Child has been a good read here too, because it helped me understand some things going on even beyond possible dyslexia for my kids. Here's some info on dyslexia on the All About Spelling site, which has really helped my kids with spelling and reading too.

 

Dyslexia

Dyslexia symptoms

 

Hang in there!

Merry :-)

[ElizabethB]

If she got a lot of sight words, that can mimic the symptoms of dyslexia but is not true dyslexia, it is dyslexic symptoms caused by sight words and whole word teaching practices like guided reading and encouraged context guessing.

 

You can give her the MWIA to find out if she has problems from too many sight words and not enough phonics, if she scores at grade level 2 or below on the NRRF reading grade level test, give the MWIA I. If she scores at grade level 3 or above on the NRRF test, give the MWIA II.

 

The tests are linked here:

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

[Corraleno]

SUPER sloppy

HORRIBLE handwriting

still writes' date=' reads and says some things backwards

totally misses whole sounds, or adds things that are not there.

inventing. she is a genius!

hilarious outlook on life

very active, spunky, quirky--has a great attitude

quite capable in every way except "schoolish stuff"

wants to be an architect. she one of "those" types

[/quote']

 

All these traits say "visual/spatial learner" to me. The more I read about it, the more convinced I am that many so-called "learning disabilities" are just functions of the visual/spatial brain. Since these things seem abnormal to us auditory/verbal/sequential types, they get divided into separate little boxes and labeled as "disabilities." For example, if a person thinks in 3D images, as V/S learners do, and they are used to "rotating" objects around in their minds, it's easy to understand why they would reverse letters (or even whole words) or would confuse b, d, p & q ~ those are all the same shape, just rotated in different positions. What looks like a language disability (dyslexia) may in fact be a spatial ability.

 

If you read books about ADD, or dyslexia, or dysgraphia, or APD, any of the myriad other "LDs" you will see that many of the authors group the same clump of "symptoms" together, and most of these symptoms (not processing verbal information well, no sense of time, disorganized, bad handwriting, reversing letters or words, etc) are all characteristics of visual/spatial learners. This website has a lot of great information, including specific tips for helping VSL kids learn to spell, track time better, memorize verbal information, etc. Scroll to the bottom of the page for links to the individual articles on these topics:

http://www.visualspatial.org/parents.htm

 

They also have all this info in one place, in an e-book called If You Could See the Way I Think. It's overpriced at $17, IMHO, but I wanted to have all the info in one place and be able to print it out for DS. It really helped him to see the advantages of being a VSL, instead of thinking of himself as "learning disabled."

http://www.visualspatial.org/Product_Marketing/books.htm

 

Jackie

[RamonaQ]

All these traits say "visual/spatial learner" to me. The more I read about it, the more convinced I am that many so-called "learning disabilities" are just functions of the visual/spatial brain. Since these things seem abnormal to us auditory/verbal/sequential types, they get divided into separate little boxes and labeled as "disabilities." For example, if a person thinks in 3D images, as V/S learners do, and they are used to "rotating" objects around in their minds, it's easy to understand why they would reverse letters (or even whole words) or would confuse b, d, p & q ~ those are all the same shape, just rotated in different positions. What looks like a language disability (dyslexia) may in fact be a spatial ability.

 

 

Jackie

 

Thank you so much! We are in our first year of re-mediating some of the reading issues my 10 yo, which we have been calling dyslexia but without a formal diagnosis. This has been such a helpful perspective...spatial ability! I am going to start using this perspective when I talk with ds about how he learns.

[Renee in NC]

All these traits say "visual/spatial learner" to me. The more I read about it, the more convinced I am that many so-called "learning disabilities" are just functions of the visual/spatial brain. Since these things seem abnormal to us auditory/verbal/sequential types, they get divided into separate little boxes and labeled as "disabilities." For example, if a person thinks in 3D images, as V/S learners do, and they are used to "rotating" objects around in their minds, it's easy to understand why they would reverse letters (or even whole words) or would confuse b, d, p & q ~ those are all the same shape, just rotated in different positions. What looks like a language disability (dyslexia) may in fact be a spatial ability.

 

If you read books about ADD, or dyslexia, or dysgraphia, or APD, any of the myriad other "LDs" you will see that many of the authors group the same clump of "symptoms" together, and most of these symptoms (not processing verbal information well, no sense of time, disorganized, bad handwriting, reversing letters or words, etc) are all characteristics of visual/spatial learners. This website has a lot of great information, including specific tips for helping VSL kids learn to spell, track time better, memorize verbal information, etc. Scroll to the bottom of the page for links to the individual articles on these topics:

http://www.visualspatial.org/parents.htm

 

They also have all this info in one place, in an e-book called If You Could See the Way I Think. It's overpriced at $17, IMHO, but I wanted to have all the info in one place and be able to print it out for DS. It really helped him to see the advantages of being a VSL, instead of thinking of himself as "learning disabled."

http://www.visualspatial.org/Product_Marketing/books.htm

 

Jackie

 

I agree to a certain extent. Being visual-spatial is an amazing gift - I have one who is like this in particular. He is still dyslexic, though, and it *is* a disability as well. No, I will never have to worry about his future because of his amazing gifts. However, since I have started remediating his language problems, the achievement and self-confidence have soared!

 

For my super-bright, mechanically-gifted 11yo ds, learning that he was dyslexic as opposed to the stupid he was calling himself was miraculous. He knows he is visual-spatial (that he thinks in pictures - several of us do) but he also knew that thinking that way didn't stop me from being able to read, write, and spell well (or his older brother minus the spelling part!)

 

If a child is truly dyslexic, ignoring it or calling it something else does not make it go away. And in my ds's case, it did not make him feel better about himself at all.

[merry gardens]

I agree to a certain extent. Being visual-spatial is an amazing gift - I have one who is like this in particular. He is still dyslexic, though, and it *is* a disability as well. No, I will never have to worry about his future because of his amazing gifts. However, since I have started remediating his language problems, the achievement and self-confidence have soared!

 

For my super-bright, mechanically-gifted 11yo ds, learning that he was dyslexic as opposed to the stupid he was calling himself was miraculous. He knows he is visual-spatial (that he thinks in pictures - several of us do) but he also knew that thinking that way didn't stop me from being able to read, write, and spell well (or his older brother minus the spelling part!)

 

If a child is truly dyslexic, ignoring it or calling it something else does not make it go away. And in my ds's case, it did not make him feel better about himself at all.

:iagree:

Corraleno's previously commented about visual-spacial learners. The book "Upside Down Brilliance" about visual-spacial learners used the term "twice gifted" for the learning difficulties some--but not all--visual spacial learners encounter.

 

Whatever one calls problems with reading, spelling and/or writing, we should try to discover how to teach these things to our children best. There are some different teaching methods that may work better with visual spacial learners. However, not all reading problems are caused by the visual spacial abilities--and sometimes visual-spacial learners may have some other underlying problems that interfear with their learning. My son is a visual learner who ALSO could not distinguish the different sounds within words and thought some different but similiar sounds were the same sound.

[Renee in NC]

:iagree:

Corraleno's previously commented about visual-spacial learners. The book "Upside Down Brilliance" about visual-spacial learners used the term "twice gifted" for the learning difficulties some--but not all--visual spacial learners encounter.

 

Whatever one calls problems with reading, spelling and/or writing, we should try to discover how to teach these things to our children best. There are some different teaching methods that may work better with visual spacial learners. However, not all reading problems are caused by the visual spacial abilities--and sometimes visual-spacial learners may have some other underlying problems that interfear with their learning. My son is a visual learner who ALSO could not distinguish the different sounds within words and thought some different but similiar sounds were the same sound.

 

Yes, this better explains what I mean. I never really learned phonics - I could read well before K. I guess you would call me a sight reader who "got" phonics after I could read (because I have few problems sounding out words I don't know, but I do at times mispronounce words. In my case, being visual spatial didn't cause me any problems (until I got to the point where I needed to know the detail rather than the big picture.)

 

My ds, on the other hand, is much like what the OP describes. He had a problem hearing all the sounds in the word, adding sounds, leaving out sounds, etc. His handwriting was so bad that even *he* couldn't read it!:tongue_smilie: Spelling? Forget it. And writing a complete sentence? Couldn't do it. Now he can write a decent paragraph. He still messes up with homophones and leaving out words when he writes, but for the most part he does pretty well. This came after tons of work with materials appropriate for his problems.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Renee in FL

[EKS]

The Mislabeled Child is a great place to start with kids that have puzzling characteristics. Also if you're thinking dyslexia, Overcoming Dyslexia is good. Also, for a broader understanding of "dyslexic brilliance", In the Mind's Eye is interesting.

[chris's girl]

thanks to everyone!

i'm just getting back to this after awhile because we were moving, but i thought i'd come share something else to see if it gives any more insight: DD2 does not just mispronounce words she reads, but also words she hears. for example, my husband took her to walmart, and, as a treat, got her some whoppers. she had to run in to tell me because this is a big deal, and she said "daddy got me some woopers!!". confused, i asked her to clarify, and she went on describing these "woopers". she said her friend had told her about them and she wanted to try them. so she mispronounced the word she heard, and, even when my husband corrected her and she had read it on the package, she still got it wrong. she does this alot--just can't remember how words are pronlounced. and the friend who told her about them would not have mispronounced it--she's a very articulate, older child.

 

so anyway, don't know if that gives anyone another idea, or solidifies "dyslexia" as what this looks like, but i thought i'd mention it. i am looking up all the books and links posted here, so i really appreciate the info given!

[MerryAtHope]

thanks to everyone!

i'm just getting back to this after awhile because we were moving' date=' but i thought i'd come share something else to see if it gives any more insight: DD2 does not just mispronounce words she reads, but also words she hears. for example, my husband took her to walmart, and, as a treat, got her some whoppers. she had to run in to tell me because this is a big deal, and she said "daddy got me some woopers!!". confused, i asked her to clarify, and she went on describing these "woopers". she said her friend had told her about them and she wanted to try them. so she mispronounced the word she heard, and, even when my husband corrected her and she had read it on the package, she still got it wrong. she does this alot--just can't remember how words are pronlounced. and the friend who told her about them would not have mispronounced it--she's a very articulate, older child.

 

so anyway, don't know if that gives anyone another idea, or solidifies "dyslexia" as what this looks like, but i thought i'd mention it. i am looking up all the books and links posted here, so i really appreciate the info given![/quote']

 

I hope your move is going well! It sounds like an Auditory Processing issue (my dd can do the same thing sometimes!). And auditory processing issues can also be related to dyslexia but don't have to be.

 

Merry :-)

[chris's girl]

thanks, Merry!

the move is overwhelming but going well. :)

[LizzyBee]

thanks to everyone!

i'm just getting back to this after awhile because we were moving' date=' but i thought i'd come share something else to see if it gives any more insight: DD2 does not just mispronounce words she reads, but also words she hears. for example, my husband took her to walmart, and, as a treat, got her some whoppers. she had to run in to tell me because this is a big deal, and she said "daddy got me some woopers!!". confused, i asked her to clarify, and she went on describing these "woopers". she said her friend had told her about them and she wanted to try them. so she mispronounced the word she heard, and, even when my husband corrected her and she had read it on the package, she still got it wrong. she does this alot--just can't remember how words are pronlounced. and the friend who told her about them would not have mispronounced it--she's a very articulate, older child.

 

so anyway, don't know if that gives anyone another idea, or solidifies "dyslexia" as what this looks like, but i thought i'd mention it. i am looking up all the books and links posted here, so i really appreciate the info given![/quote']

 

My 8 yo does this all the time. She has dyslexia and auditory processing disorder.

[chris's girl]

thanks, Lizzy! it helps to know my child is not the only one. :)

[chris's girl]

elizabeth b--it seems as though that test you linked denies the existence of dyslexia? from what i could see, it calls it an "acquired behavior". just interesting to see people who deny it's legitimacy and those who absolutely believe in it. the people who put out that test seem to think it is something that happened as a result of not receiving proper phonics instruction early on. i know that's not the case here, but i can see how that could be the case if one did not learn decoding early.

[mktyler]

My dd7 is very VERY similar. We had a speech eval this week and her assessment was that inattention, hyperactivity, and impulsivity were being manifest in her speech. Basically, she speaks before she thinks --well, orders and categorizes what she wants to say. Some things stick, even when they are wrong because her brain shies away from focusing on the correct word. We are going to have a medical/psych eval next for ADD and probably start her on ritalin (along with the rest of my family).

 

As for reading, I truly believe in the moral of The Tortoise and The Hare: slow and steady wins the race. After teaching her for the past 3 years (and starting over several times) she is finally blending fairly smoothly and I now feel comfortable moving forward with more of the code. Her problems with inattention have definitely contributed to her slow learning. She has difficulty paying attention to things going on outside her own head, therefore everything has to be taught multiple times and in multiple ways and situations before it sticks. Errors will often be stuck because she missed what was actually being asked of her.

 

I am going to try the McGuinness' Verbal Intelligence book as I think the exercises in there will address some of her deficits.

 

As for dyslexia, there can be many and multiple reasons why someone is struggling to read. Vision, attention, hearing, memory, interest, mood, opposition, speech, neurological. Oddly enough, the "cure" is pretty much the same whatever the cause: incremental and comprehensive direct instruction to mastery. You may be surprised at the level of instruction some kids need. My oldest (aspie) needed me to teach her explicitly 300+ sound-spelling correspondences (out of over 400+, most programs teach less than 150) before she would read from a book. My oldest even needed me to tell her that she actually understood what she was reading! With that cleared up, she took off. :tongue_smilie:

 

HTH!

 

Melissa

Minnesota

Reading Program Junkie

dd(11) dd(7) ds(5) ds(2)

[LizzyBee]

elizabeth b--it seems as though that test you linked denies the existence of dyslexia? from what i could see' date=' it calls it an "acquired behavior". just interesting to see people who deny it's legitimacy and those who absolutely believe in it. the people who put out that test seem to think it is something that happened as a result of not receiving proper phonics instruction early on. i know that's not the case here, but i can see how that could be the case if one did not learn decoding early.[/quote']

 

Yeah, according to that test my dd has been taught to read using whole language or too many sight words. Uh, no, dyslexic kids hear and see whole words rather than the parts because their brains are wired that way. It takes a lot of work to train their minds to see the parts rather than the whole. There is new evidence suggesting that dyslexia is set by 5-6 months of pregnancy.

 

Ironically, my oldest dd naturally reads and spells phonetically. Her phonics instruction included about the first 20 lessons of 100 EZ Lessons at age 4 after she'd begun reading. My dyslexic kids, otoh, have had phonics out the wazoo. Dd13 is completely remediated irt reading, but dd8 has a LONG way to go.

[merry gardens]

elizabeth b--it seems as though that test you linked denies the existence of dyslexia? from what i could see' date=' it calls it an "acquired behavior". just interesting to see people who deny it's legitimacy and those who absolutely believe in it. the people who put out that test seem to think it is something that happened as a result of not receiving proper phonics instruction early on. i know that's not the case here, but i can see how that could be the case if one did not learn decoding early.[/quote']

I checked out that link after reading what you wrote. Rather than completely denying the existence of dyslexia, the web-authors seem to distinguish "true dyslexia" from those who were never properly taught phonics. I didn't go through the entire website, but I did find the following quote included under reading then under dyslexia.

 

"Children who have an average or above IQ and are reading 1 1/2 grades or more below grade level may be dyslexic. True dyslexia affects about 3 to 6 percent of the population yet in some parts of the country up to 50% of the students are not reading at grade level. This means that the reason for most children not reading at grade level is ineffective reading instruction. The dyslexic child often suffers from having a specific learning disability as well as being exposed to ineffective instruction."

[chris's girl]

Thanks, Merry!

I did not see an option for a child's being labeled "dyslexic" in the scoring portion of the test, only degrees of need for phonics instruction. But I did not read the part that you posted here. It felt a little like "you messed up somewhere" on that site, but I do see their point for importance of phonics instruction.