s/o from how to educate like 1700's thread"

[TechWife]

In another thread, this discussion came up:

 

I think education is where you learn to identify problems and create solutions. That's what we're doing in this homeschool anyway. :)

 

:iagree: That's what we are doing too. We are more relaxed academically so we can focus on application.

 

So how do you do this?

 

I am very much a linear thinker & would love to encourage more exploration with my son, but how? He tells me that if I incorporate something he likes into school - I ruin it for him and its no longer fun. When he first got his Mindstorm NXT, he asked if he could learn more about it, so I found some materials for him - a book and then a computer based course from Carnegie Mellon. While he knows the NXT software very well, he hasn't been as enthralled with it as he once was - to the point that although he is the lead programmer on his FLL team, he is marginally involved, doing only what he has to do. He is the one who chooses to remain on the team each and every year!

 

FLL is set up to deal with identifying real world problems and finding solutions to them. Each year has a theme and then the kids can go in any direction that they want to with that theme as far as their research and solution develpment are concerned. Two years ago I decided that FLL was taking up so much of his time, that it would be the basis of our science program. He said that it made the FLL research "not fun" because I was "making" him do it. Ugh.

 

So how do you encourage this type of learning?:lurk5:

[angela in ohio]

I don't incorporate dc's interests into our homeschool work. I fought all of the common homeschooling instruction to take whatever interests they had at the moment and plan our school days around them. There are many benefits to this (that's probably another thread alotogether,) but one is that we have avoided this problem.

 

We also do FLL. My two dd are on a team that is run almost entirely by the young people, with help from another mother. Dc have learned a lot about problem solving through it, but mostly through applying things I had already taught them during our regular homeschool work. I don't use these activities to teach them the skills, I let them practice applying them there, after I have taught them the skills in our homeschool. I would just let LEGO be his thing and not work it into school. Part o my 'homeschool philosophy' is that dc have their own interests that I help them cultivate (pay for materials, drive them to,) but don't run for them.

 

I'm the opposite of 2squared, I suppose, in that we are more rigorous academically in order to teach problem solving skills. I teach them through conversations that we have during the various subjects I teach them, and I also teach the skills directly. As I said in the other thread, identifying problems and creating solutions are the skills of logic and rhetoric. Schools these days, most homeschool curriculum, and even some classical education materials focus on the grammar stage. It's when you master the skills of grammar and move on to logic and rhetoric skills that dc learn to problem solve.

 

Last night, my dh asked the kiddos to tell him three things they are thankful for. Both of my girls said (along with family and faith) that they are thankful that I have been so tough on them academically. They are interacting with other young people and realizing that they are getting something with classical education that puts them a step ahead. Once they start to see that, they become much more appreciative of what you are doing to them. :D

[Tohru]

We don't incorporate interests into homeschool either. I think that works for some families and not for others.

 

My ds needs to have a distinction between school requirements and his own interests...perhaps it is a sign of maturity, healthy separation and a way of developing his own identity. He will get inspired about things we are studying and go off on his, doing research, etc, however if I try to bring it over into the school bubble, he looses interest.

 

It's almost like these "interests" could be similar to a child's play. Once you try to take it and direct it somewhere, it looses it's charm and fascination. My son loves to share his interests with me and explain them, but I have learned to leave them alone as his special thing unless he asks me to become involved.

 

We are not relaxed academically, however he does have time during the school week to do whatever he wants (no electronics). Sometimes he just sits on the couch for an hour - but he is thinking while he sits there and then after school is over, he creates.

[TechWife]

I would just let LEGO be his thing and not work it into school. Part o my 'homeschool philosophy' is that dc have their own interests that I help them cultivate (pay for materials, drive them to,) but don't run for them.

This is what we have done this year. I am out of the picture, dh remains the team coach, but we are thinking this will be his last year doing that. After the 2010-2011 season, DS will move up to FTC if he wants to do so.

 

 

we are more rigorous academically in order to teach problem solving skills. I teach them through conversations that we have during the various subjects I teach them, and I also teach the skills directly.

How do you teach them directly? Do you use a logic program or a critical thinking program? Can you give me one or two real life examples?

 

As I said in the other thread, identifying problems and creating solutions are the skills of logic and rhetoric. Schools these days, most homeschool curriculum, and even some classical education materials focus on the grammar stage. It's when you master the skills of grammar and move on to logic and rhetoric skills that dc learn to problem solve.

DS is firmly in the logic stage, although he shows no indications of being ready to go into the rhetoric stage - as he is just shy of 13 that makes sense right now. I would imagine our discussions, etc. would become more complex as he gets more/mature & older.

 

 

Both of my girls said (along with family and faith) that they are thankful that I have been so tough on them academically. T

Way to go, Mom! I have raised my expectations greatly this year - moving from Sonlight, which was basically reading and a little bit of discussion, to History Odyssey which seems like TWTM on a schedule. It has been fantastic to see him rise to the challenge - more reading, writing and discussions have made our days richer. A more rigorous science program and following some of the inquiry science methods has led to increased stimulation and learning in that area as well.

 

Thanks so much for your help!

[2squared]

My viewpoints are based on my childhood experiences. Both dh & I are farm kids from small towns. Our childhoods are ones most people in the U.S. don't see anymore.

 

I will consider my dc to be well educated if they have strong fundamentals in the 3Rs, know how to physically work hard, and can naturally identify problems and create solutions. How am I teaching my kids to identify problems and create solutions? Through real life. I don't know how I would teach this through a book, but maybe I'll figure that out when my kids are older. I challenge my kids to see problems and solutions rather than be complacent with the status quo. I encourage them to create and dream. They have ample free time to be bored enough to get their creative juices flowing and their bodies moving. What does this look like?

 

Well, on a small scale, my kids often climb too high in trees. Instead of calling for me to help them, I expect them to find a way out of the tree by themselves. If they can't figure it out, they call for me, but I don't get them out. I ask them what tools they need to create a solution for themselves. They might need a hand to get a better foothold or they might need a ladder. If they need a ladder, then they need to get their siblings to fetch one. Watching my young kids struggle to move a ladder through our yard is interesting! My 5yo & 3yo regularly explore our grove by themselves, and they get into and out of all kinds of predictaments by themselves. A lot of people on their boards couldn't imagine letting their 5yo & 3yos explore by themselves, but that was how I grew up. It's natural for me. I was milking cows with my dad at 5yo and doing fieldwork as soon as I could reach the petals on the tractor. Children are so capable if we stretch them, and I see that over and over again with the farm kids in our community. We are definitely free-range parents, but I would never allow my kids to do things which would be dangerous for them.

 

My kids work with dh & I on our farmette. We ask the dc for ideas on how to get our work done. I often give the kids a task and tell them to figure out how to get it done. I expect them to fail.

 

We also use games to help develop thinking strategies - card games, board games, puzzles, etc.

[hillfarm]

Children are so capable if we stretch them, and I see that over and over again with the farm kids in our community. ...

 

My kids work with dh & I on our farmette. We ask the dc for ideas on how to get our work done. I often give the kids a task and tell them to figure out how to get it done. I expect them to fail.

 

.

 

Jennifer, I seem to be following along this same path. When dd was 2, we always had a story, poem, etc. before bed. At one point, I was all tapped out and decided we would do the 23rd Psalm. Soon came the day when she, with all of that 2yo bravado, demanded to "do it myself". Dh said fine, have at it. And she did. Word for word, the whole thing. I would have never thought to require that she memorize such a passage at that young age, but she was obviously capable of doing so.

 

Regarding giving a task and having them figure it out, I am famous for pretending to be a Star Trek captain and telling dd, "Make it so. Figure it out for yourself."

 

I wish there were a curriculum or syllabus that would list for me the various skills we have discussed on this and the other thread. But I don't know of any. I plan to spend this second semester of dd's 6th grade trying to 1)come up with an integrated list, and 2)determine how to tweak my curriculum to include a study of and practice with each of those skills.

[Rosie_0801]

How am I teaching my kids to identify problems and create solutions? Through real life. I I challenge my kids to see problems and solutions rather than be complacent with the status quo.

Well, on a small scale, my kids often climb too high in trees. Instead of calling for me to help them, I expect them to find a way out of the tree by themselves. If they can't figure it out, they call for me, but I don't get them out. I ask them what tools they need to create a solution for themselves. They might need a hand to get a better foothold or they might need a ladder.

 

This is how we dealt with our kiddies when I was a gumnut (daisy scout) leader. Typical conversations went something like this:

Girl: "I can't do it!"

Leader: "Why not?"

Girl: "It won't cut!" (Ah, so we can identify the problem.)

Leader: "Do you need me to help?"

Girl: Either

"No, I'll just do it like this and it'll work" (Ah, I was only supposed to witness)

Or

"Yes!"

Leader: "What do you want me to do?"

Girl: Either

"Can you just hold that bit?" (Ah, so we can figure out the solution)

Or

"I don't know!!!!!!!!!"

Leader: "How about I hold this bit here?"

Girl: Either

"No, hold that other bit, please." (Ah, so we can find a solution :) )

or

"OK!"

 

The girls we were dealing with in these situations tended to come from very tidy homes and were the sweet, good girls at school. They were always being told exactly how to do everything, and rather a lot of what they weren't allowed to do, so they didn't get much practice at thinking things through. It didn't take long before they no longer needed to follow this pattern right through to the end. It did take them a long time to be able to transfer this new skill to their lives outside our little group, but that's the way it is with any new skill.

 

Rosie

[Nan in Mass]

I do it very, very cautiously. If I see a child interested in something, I ask whether they want to explore it for school or if that would spoil it. I ask if they want help investigating something, or if that would spoil it. Often, they just want to tell me what they are doing, to share it with me, and I have to be careful not to mistake this for a request for more information. Generally, I haven't been able to do anything with their interests when they were little. When they are in high school, it is easier. Then my approach is to let them decide how to explore (usually in a non-academic manner), and then I add the absolute minimum academic componant needed to turn it into a "course". Academic to me means a bit of research or reading, and some writing/documentation. It works best if I do this afterwards. For example, my son just spent a few months figuring out how to make molds for models out of sculpy. I bit my tongue until tonight, when I very cautiously, with lots of this-is-just-an-idea-you-don't-have-to-do-it-if-you-don't-want-to-or-if-it-would-spoil-it's, suggested that if he took a few photos of the process and wrote a paper about the problems he had encountered and how he had overcome them, we could count it as part of his technology credit. He was actually excited about the idea, but I am dead sure that if I had approached him before he had gotten this far, he would have squawked and baulked and wailed that the very idea was spoiling things. I try hard to take what they do and tie it into the rest of their education. My older son did a lot of interest-based, non-academic learning in the form of travel. He counted on me to prepare him beforehand (bit of history and language), help him produce some documentation afterwards, find supplimentary projects (like going with the church youth group to petition our state legislature about something), and come up with some general information that helped him tie what he was learning together (for example, I had him listen to the Teaching Company anthropology lectures and do the UN's workbook).

 

-Nan

[AngelBee]

:lurk5: