What would you do? Singapore or RS?

[bethben]

I know there's been discussions before about this. I have a RS level B sitting at home (someone gave it to me to look at) and used Singapore with ds #2. Now, ds #3 is coming around to kindergarten level and he is a very visual / can see it in my head kind of guy. He's also the middle child and very much feels it. I got the RS game pack and he is LOVING to play the games. He wanted to "play" the other games in the big box (level B Rightstart). I understand Singapore and know where it's going and as a teacher, I know Rightstart is not totally my teaching style at all. So, do I just go with Singapore with ds #3 (I know how to add all the manipulatives and would continue with the RS math games- so that is not a problem) or go with his love for games and "toys" and go with RS level B when he's ready? Or, is this just Mommy guilt for the middle child?

 

Beth

[Matryoshka]

When I first saw RS I completely loved it. I was already using Singapore and loving it, but I thought the RS curriculum with the games and manipulatives written into it was brilliant. But I looked at the huge scripted books with the tight lines and not much white space (compared to my comfy, thin, well-laid out Singapore books), and thought of all the manipulatives and math games I already had sitting on the shelf gathering dust, and had a reality check. I love the idea, but it isn't my teaching style - I'd love it to be, but I've learned enough about myself to see that my wanting to teach that way and actually doing it are two different things.

 

So I bought the Abacus and the Activity book, and used it to supplement. I probably should've bought the games too (I only didn't because I already had so many math games that I wasn't using). Singapore fits my teaching style.

 

I had a friend who loved hands-on math and was actually making up her own stuff - so I told her about RS and she used it and loved it. Singapore didn't do it for her. :D I think both are great curricula, but you do have to take your teaching style (as well as dc's learning style) into account.

[Capt_Uhura]

I love RS and have always toyed w/ SM. IN your shoes, based on what you've written, I'd do SM with him and just add in the RS games. WHy change what isn't broken for you? You can easily give him the visuals of RS in context of SM.

[Mary in GA]

Well, I use both. I used Singapore with with 2 older dc, but decided to try RS with last dd because I thought it would be a god fit and also I wanted a change too. I struggled with the scripting of RS for a while and found it stilted, but I stuck with it and found a groove and I really like it. I preread lessons and don't do them as scripted. I also look ahead in the RS book because I've found sometimes I needed to condense esp. in the earlier lessons. None of this takes much time. Once I got into the groove, I probably spent about 15 min per week looking over lessons. We use SM half a yr behind chronological grade level. We are in 1st grade and finishing EB 2B and will start 1A after Christmas. This wasn't a "plan." It just worked out that way. We SM about twice a week and RS 4 days. This is my first time doing things this way and we will probably go year round. Siloam (I think!) on this board also does something similar. Maybe she'll chime in. HTH!

Mary

[siloam]

Beth,

 

All my kids are hands on learners, and to be honest I only bought RS because they hated doing just Singapore. Singapore is my first love of math programs, but I am mathy and my kids are not.

 

RS was not easy for me to use. I had a very hate/love relationship with it for the first year. I disliked dealing with all the manipulatives. After I had been using it about a year things started to click. I found a system for dealing with all the stuff, I felt I could go off script when needed, and really began to see the payoff in my kids.

 

For example, my oldest hated math, and would admit it was her worst subject (it was the hardest subject for her, but she did do Ok with it). Teaching her a new concept in Singapore consisted in my sitting with her for up to a month and walking her through how to do the problem. With addition (8+5) I would ask her how would we need to break down 5 to make 8 into 10? I lead her through the problems and did all the writing on a white board. Slowly as she started to get the concept I would stop asking her direct questions and instead ask her what I needed to do next, until she was walking me through the whole problem and I was just doing the writing. After that she would come to a point of realizing it was easier to do it on her own than to walk me through it, and she would take over. As you can see I had a huge time commitment in doing Singapore. Once we started using RS she understood the base concepts more quickly, and didn't need me to sit there and walk her through them. Once more she decided that she didn't mind math so much, and that she was actually pretty good at it (priceless).

 

Long term I am come to appreciate RS more and more to the point that I now consider it our main program and Singapore a supplement. All my kids are doing well in math now, I no longer need to sit with them and demonstrate concepts like I did my oldest two when they just did Singapore-they can now do Singapore independently and while they don't love math, they don't hate it either. If you have a hands on learner you might be best to grin a bear it with RS. For me it was going to be painful either way, and long term RS was a lot less pain because I got used to the program. It would be very frustrating to still need to sit with each of the kids and walk them new through concepts-and have them hate it.

 

Other learning types I can't speak to. My oldest and youngest are hands on auditory, my middle two are hands on and visual.

 

Heather

[PeterPan]

Do RS B and maybe C to the point where they teach 4 digit subtraction (I LOVE the way RS does 4 digit subtraction) then switch over to Singapore.

[SonshineLearner]

I'm loving Singapore. Got it for my 11 year old... and then... even though I planned to do no formal math with my 6 year old... bought grades one and two for him. (mainly cuz I want to understand what we would have learned... and how.. in the younger grades:-)

 

I hear I should get the workbook... but just going through the textbook is ok for me right now. i also have an abacus program from Nurtureminds.com... that's for grades 1 and 2... that I am trying to use a bit... He is mentally far above 1st grade, but formally...we're just starting.

 

Carrie:-)

[nansk]

Do RS B and maybe C to the point where they teach 4 digit subtraction (I LOVE the way RS does 4 digit subtraction) then switch over to Singapore.

 

Hi Elizabeth,

 

Could you please share how RS teaches 4 digit subtraction?

Is it done using the other side of the AL abacus and the place value cards?

 

 

Another question I have is, does the Activities for the AL Abacus really cover everything that the RS math curriculum covers? Upto which grade does this hold true? I ask because I read that RS also includes some geometric manipulatives to teach basic math operations (geoboards, fractals, cut-out shapes etc).

I may be able to get the Activities book next year from someone, and am trying to determine whether it really is enough for the primary grades or whether I should invest in the year-by-year RS materials.

 

Thank you in advance.

Nandini

[siloam]

Hi Elizabeth,

 

Could you please share how RS teaches 4 digit subtraction?

Is it done using the other side of the AL abacus and the place value cards?

 

 

Another question I have is, does the Activities for the AL Abacus really cover everything that the RS math curriculum covers? Upto which grade does this hold true? I ask because I read that RS also includes some geometric manipulatives to teach basic math operations (geoboards, fractals, cut-out shapes etc).

I may be able to get the Activities book next year from someone, and am trying to determine whether it really is enough for the primary grades or whether I should invest in the year-by-year RS materials.

 

Thank you in advance.

Nandini

 

 

The one she is talking of works from left to right, and instead of crossing things out you underline them. It is a lot easier to look at and follow what has being going on than when things have been crossed out and written above.

 

Heather

[anabelneri]

We started with Singapore in Kindergarten, but I didn't like the way dd was doing addition. It's a pet peeve of mine, since I was taught Touchpoints and never escaped from it -- I don't want my children to have that sort of handicap. But dd generally likes Singapore.

 

We added Right Start in along with Singapore this year (1st grade) so dd could learn the Right Start method of addition, and in general it's worked. I can see that she's actually developing decent addition skills. However, she hates the RS teaching style with a passion. She does Ok with Singapore's workbook style, but she can't handle the little reviews, the tactile nature (she would burn those base-10 cards if she could), and the way that she was dependent on me to tell her what to do next.

 

I thought about dropping RS and just doing Singapore, but she started to return to her old hash-mark-counting methods of addition after a couple days. So I'm starting to find new ways of teaching RS; the best option for us thus far is to make worksheets out of it. Crazy! She is fine with worksheets, and actually prefers them to RS's didactic style. My current plan is to merge RS and Singapore, following RS as the primary program and using Singapore to supplement.

 

Good luck finding your own balance!

:)

Anabel

[Mom-ninja.]

I love RS and have always toyed w/ SM. IN your shoes, based on what you've written, I'd do SM with him and just add in the RS games. WHy change what isn't broken for you? You can easily give him the visuals of RS in context of SM.

 

I agree. If you're comfortable with Singapore then use that. The games are easy to do without the whole RS program.

 

I tried Singapore and it didn't work for me. I need a lot of hand holding and RS gives that to me. I didn't feel confident enough in myself to use Singapore...wish I did.

[Matryoshka]

I thought about dropping RS and just doing Singapore, but she started to return to her old hash-mark-counting methods of addition after a couple days.

 

I've used Singapore from Earlybird 1A and we're finishing up 6a now - and I'm utterly confused about what you're talking about. What hash-mark-counting? Singapore doesn't teach that. I always used manipulatives with my kids in the early years (and though I never used the HIG, I think it says to do that too). With my youngest, I actually used the Right Start abacus as my main manipulative with Singapore but that was the only piece of RS I used. Singapore does not promote or desire children to be counting with hash marks or fingers. :confused: Do you have the HIG - perhaps it would clarify??

[anabelneri]

... I'm utterly confused about what you're talking about. What hash-mark-counting? Singapore doesn't teach that. I always used manipulatives with my kids in the early years ... Singapore does not promote or desire children to be counting with hash marks or fingers. :confused: Do you have the HIG - perhaps it would clarify??

 

I don't think Singapore taught it, but in Earlybird it did have her counting to do addition, and also in 1A there's the "counting on" method if 1, 2, or 3 are being added to a number. I think dd developed the tendency to make her own hashmarks at the bottom of the page while we were doing Earlybird, and it has unfortunately stuck, but only when we do Singapore. And she does have manipulatives that she can use, including the RS abacus. I do have the HIG for 1A, and I don't have the sense that they want her counting-on numbers larger than 3.

 

For some reason she doesn't do the marks with RS. Go figure.

 

Anabel

[Matryoshka]

I don't think Singapore taught it, but in Earlybird it did have her counting to do addition, and also in 1A there's the "counting on" method if 1, 2, or 3 are being added to a number. I think dd developed the tendency to make her own hashmarks at the bottom of the page while we were doing Earlybird, and it has unfortunately stuck, but only when we do Singapore. And she does have manipulatives that she can use, including the RS abacus. I do have the HIG for 1A, and I don't have the sense that they want her counting-on numbers larger than 3.

 

For some reason she doesn't do the marks with RS. Go figure.

 

Ah... the counting-on is supposed to be a mental math technique - that's why they never have the kid counting-on more than 3 - that's kind of the limit of how high you can count-on mentally without losing your place. And they most definitely don't ever suggest counting-on more than 3. I'd give her the abacus with Singapore and see if that keeps her in RS mode.

[christine in al]

I have Singapore sitting on my shelf because I couldn't make the switch from RS to Singapore. I believe Singaproe is a great program. But I am increasingly happy with RS. Kids spout our mental math for the joy of it. I think Singapore would have worked for us if I had used it from the beginning but I tried to suppliment RS half way through and the sequence is so different that it didnt' work for us.

I need the hand-holding and I am trusting RS more and more.

 

If Singapore is working for you,,, stick with it. I would add just the RS card games and go happily forward.

 

cheers.

Chrsitine in AL

[siloam]

I don't think Singapore taught it, but in Earlybird it did have her counting to do addition, and also in 1A there's the "counting on" method if 1, 2, or 3 are being added to a number. I think dd developed the tendency to make her own hashmarks at the bottom of the page while we were doing Earlybird, and it has unfortunately stuck, but only when we do Singapore. And she does have manipulatives that she can use, including the RS abacus. I do have the HIG for 1A, and I don't have the sense that they want her counting-on numbers larger than 3.

 

For some reason she doesn't do the marks with RS. Go figure.

 

Anabel

 

Anabel,

 

Don't feel bad the counting on totally confused my dd too, she started writing out all the numbers like the sample. She can easily do two digit mental math that adds up to three digits, but she does it base 10 or base 5. "Counting on" made her want to write it out as well.

 

Heather