Eating Carbs causes increase in fat tissue (about the Lustig and Taubes videos)

[Kathleen in VA]

Not sure about the title for this thread but I have a question about the idea that eating carbs increases fat generation in the body. The Dr. Lustig video and the Gary Taubes video (both posted by Snickerdoodle and others) have led me to a question about eating carbs.

 

Basically, both these doctors are saying that eating carbs, which get reduced to sugars in the body and become fat, causes weight gain and obesity. Taubes goes further and says that eating carbs causes your body to stimulate insulin and that it is the insulin that somehow increases the fat tissue. (This is very rough - the science was a bit difficult for me - but this is basically what I got out of it.)

 

Dr. Lustig says that eating the fructose with the fruit is fine because of the high fiber content in the fruit.

 

Sooooo, my question is if you eat carbohydrates (breads, cereals, muffins, tortillas, pasta, etc.) made from freshly ground wheat (thereby not eliminating the natural fiber found in the wheat) will you be able to eat those carbs without stimulating insulin and thereby not gain weight?

 

Or, put another way, is it possible that when large flour mills process wheat flour so that it will not go rancid (taking out the wheat germ) they transform it into a carb that will cause people to gain weight? Could that be the true cause of the obesity epidemic; people eating diets high in refined carbs?

 

Neither one of these doctors makes a distinction between products made with refined wheat products and those made without.

[MIch elle]

Yes, because they have a high glycemic level. Read about glycemic levels in The SouthBeach Diet and The Low GI Diet.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/

[Sputterduck]

Taubes goes further and says that eating carbs causes your body to stimulate insulin and that it is the insulin that somehow increases the fat tissue. (This is very rough - the science was a bit difficult for me - but this is basically what I got out of it.)

 

You got this right. :) That's why people with pcos gain weight suddenly when their pcos starts. Their insulin levels become constantly high. High insulin levels trigger fat cells to store fat. Low insulin levels trigger them to release fat.

[Greta]

Sooooo, my question is if you eat carbohydrates (breads, cereals, muffins, tortillas, pasta, etc.) made from freshly ground wheat (thereby not eliminating the natural fiber found in the wheat) will you be able to eat those carbs without stimulating insulin and thereby not gain weight?

 

You do not get as much of an insulin response when you eat carbs in the presence of fiber or fat, because this slows down their absorption. Refined carbs are definitely far worse in terms of insulin response. But all carbs do stimulate some insulin response. So I think (just mho) the answer to your question depends upon the person, how badly damaged their metabolism is, how much weight they need to lose.

[Kathleen in VA]

You got this right. :) That's why people with pcos gain weight suddenly when their pcos starts. Their insulin levels become constantly high. High insulin levels trigger fat cells to store fat. Low insulin levels trigger them to release fat.

 

Ok, feeling stupid here, what is pcos again?

[Sputterduck]

Sooooo, my question is if you eat carbohydrates (breads, cereals, muffins, tortillas, pasta, etc.) made from freshly ground wheat (thereby not eliminating the natural fiber found in the wheat) will you be able to eat those carbs without stimulating insulin and thereby not gain weight?

 

Or, put another way, is it possible that when large flour mills process wheat flour so that it will not go rancid (taking out the wheat germ) they transform it into a carb that will cause people to gain weight? Could that be the true cause of the obesity epidemic; people eating diets high in refined carbs?

 

To answer your questions, wheat with the germ is better, but not perfect. In Snickerdoodle's video, the doctor mentions the paleolithic diet. The paleolithic diet does not allow many grains at all because for most of human history, grains were not a part of our diet. They are far too small to be gathered naturally to mean much food-wise, so we never did until farming became the norm. So wheat with the germ is better, but still not exactly part of our historic natural diet that humans were made to eat.

 

Yes, processed wheat and other grains are a large part of the obesity epidemic! A person eats white flour, insulin goes up, fat cells are triggered to begin storing fat, and over time you have a fat person. This effect is very much minimized if the flour is not so processed.

[Greta]

Ok, feeling stupid here, what is pcos again?

 

Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. I wouldn't have known either, except that I have two friends who were diagnosed with it!

[Sputterduck]

Ok, feeling stupid here, what is pcos again?

 

 

I'm sorry! Pcos is an insulin-related disease where one of the main symptoms is weight gain. It's a great example of what happens to a person with insulin levels that are high all the time. If a person with pcos eliminates carbs, they basically fix themselves. Although, it's not a cure. They can't go back to carbs. But without carbs, all the horrible things that result from pcos won't happen.

[Sputterduck]

Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. I wouldn't have known either, except that I have two friends who were diagnosed with it!

 

Very good. :tongue_smilie: Basically high insulin levels damage the ovaries over time resulting in fertility issues and often cysts on the ovaries. It sucks.

[Greta]

Very good. :tongue_smilie: Basically high insulin levels damage the ovaries over time resulting in fertility issues and often cysts on the ovaries. It sucks.

 

Okay, so the insulin problems come first and the PCOS is a result?

[MomOfOneFunOne]

Well, I can speak to the PCOS and Carb issue a tiny bit. My dr. recommended the pcos diet **after** I turned down bc and another med -- she kind of rolled her eyes and said, "well, you might want to try this, then, some ppl like it." It was a flyer for a book about pcos and diet.

 

So, I tried it.

 

I was supposed to go back after three months to have my ovaries re checked but havent' yet. As a result, I dont' know what impact the diet has had on my ovaries.

 

However, as soon as I started it I started sleeping after having been a serious insomniac for many, Many MANY years. Also, after having been on it for a couple of months I lost quite a bit of weight with no effort whatsoever. Seeing the weight come off was a real kick in the pants and I wanted to lose more and started No S-ing (www.everydaysystems.com) and

 

 

******I FEEL GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***************

 

The basic idea is to limit refined carbs to almost never, eat non-refined carbs in the company of protein balancing all meals with a 1:1 carb/protein not to exceede two servings of carbs per meal. Eat lots of fruits and veggies most of which do not count as carbs in the way this dr./author meant it.

 

I build each plate with a protein or more and plenty of fruit or veggies and add a carb if I want it.

 

I notice the more carbs I eat, the less I sleep. This is uber important to me. So, say . . . halloween weekend I slept fine but I didnt' sleep well Monday and worse last night. I'm back on track and hopefully will sleep well either tomorrow or the next night.

 

Sleep is an incredibly motivating factor!

[Sputterduck]

Okay, so the insulin problems come first and the PCOS is a result?

 

It's called pcos because the ovarian cysts were the first thing discovered. They now know that the kidneys in affected persons flush out a chemical called d-chiro inositol at much greater rates than normal. They do not know why yet. D-chiro inositol plays a part in the the body's insulin regulation. Without it, the body's response to insulin triggering foods is way over the top. This leads to consistently high insulin levels that damage the ovaries, leading to infertility. It also wears out the pancreas. After having put out so much insulin for years, the pancreas decides to quit, leaving many people with pcos diabetic. 70 percent of people with pcos are diabetic by the age of 50, or so I read.

 

If you cut out the carbs, insulin is not triggered and that saves people with pcos from all of the negative things they'd have to handle otherwise.

[Greta]

It's called pcos because the ovarian cysts were the first thing discovered. They now know that the kidneys in affected persons flush out a chemical called d-chiro inositol at much greater rates than normal. They do not know why yet. D-chiro inositol plays a part in the the body's insulin regulation. Without it, the body's response to insulin triggering foods is way over the top. This leads to consistently high insulin levels that damage the ovaries, leading to infertility. It also wears out the pancreas. After having put out so much insulin for years, the pancreas decides to quit, leaving many people with pcos diabetic. 70 percent of people with pcos are diabetic by the age of 50, or so I read.

 

If you cut out the carbs, insulin is not triggered and that saves people with pcos from all of the negative things they'd have to handle otherwise.

 

Thank you for explaining this!

[Sputterduck]

******I FEEL GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***************

 

 

YAY!

[Greta]

My dr. recommended the pcos diet **after** I turned down bc and another med -- she kind of rolled her eyes and said, "well, you might want to try this, then, some ppl like it." It was a flyer for a book about pcos and diet.

 

I wonder if that's typical - that docs only recommend the diet as a "last resort" instead of a first line of defense. If so, that's really too bad. I'm glad you've had such success with it!

[Kathleen in VA]

You all are great - I'm really learning a lot. Thanks for all the info. :)

[inactive]

I wonder if that's typical - that docs only recommend the diet as a "last resort" instead of a first line of defense. If so, that's really too bad. I'm glad you've had such success with it!

 

I was diagnosed with PCOS about 12 years ago and have NEVER had my doctor offer a diet -- she just started pushing BC, which I refused.

 

I'm curious about the insulin thing, though. I have NEVER, NEVER had a high insulin reading. (if anything, it's the other way -- when I went into the ob/gyn for a sugar test, after drinking the nasty orange syrup, my blood sugar was 50 something!!:eek:)

 

I can tell you that when I've tried cutting out carbs/sugar/etc and caffeine, I feel like crap for a few days and then start to feel better. My cycle regulates and things go smoothly. BUT, I've never been able to lose more than 5 - 10 lbs.

[Truscifi]

Is there a link available for more info about this diet? I have a dear friend with PCOS and although she is aware of the carb issue, I don't think she understands how strong an impact cutting carbs could have.

[Sputterduck]

I wonder if that's typical - that docs only recommend the diet as a "last resort" instead of a first line of defense. If so, that's really too bad. I'm glad you've had such success with it!

 

It depends on the quality of the doctor and also how learned they are about pcos. My primary care physician put me on metformin and did nothing else. I was eventually assigned to a reproductive endocrinologist who used to run a program at Yale and is now running a program at UC Davis. He knew his stuff. He is at the top of his field. He basically gave me a terrible scenario about how I was going to die from this if I didn't do what I need to do and then tons of info on what to eat and how to exercise. His stats on what was going to become of me were indeed correct (and scary!). Most doctors just don't have the latest info and that's why none of my other docs have ever scared me that bad. :tongue_smilie:

[Sputterduck]

Is there a link available for more info about this diet? I have a dear friend with PCOS and although she is aware of the carb issue, I don't think she understands how strong an impact cutting carbs could have.

 

Send her Snickerdoodle's video! Also, the pcos diet or the paleolithic diet will work for her.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet is a good jumping off point. I don't have a link to the pcos diet.

[Truscifi]

Send her Snickerdoodle's video! Also, the pcos diet or the paleolithic diet will work for her.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet is a good jumping off point. I don't have a link to the pcos diet.

 

Thanks!

[KrissiK]

I didn't realize that carbs can negatively affect a person in so many areas. I've been really working on staying on the South Beach Diet, not for PCOS, but for yeast. Yeast is another huge problem with so many people and when we eat the sugars and simple carbs we just feed the yeast. I've been feeling lousy for years, and I have been diagnosed with Candida, but... well, that's another story. Anyhow, I don't have it nearly as bad as I did, but I know that it will be a chronic problem. I think most people's generalized health issues would clear up if we cut out the sugars and refined flour, etc. and stuck with fruits, veggies, lean meats and whole grains. I think most drs. prescribe meds first because they're easy. Sticking to a low carb diet, when you are addicted to carbs takes an enormous amount of will-power on your best day, and is impossible when you're stressed or discouraged.

[Greta]

I was diagnosed with PCOS about 12 years ago and have NEVER had my doctor offer a diet -- she just started pushing BC, which I refused.

 

That is too bad, and that's exactly what happened with one of my two friends who was diagnosed with PCOS. The doc recommended BC, but friend wanted to get pregnant so refused. And that was it. No other recommendations were given!

 

I'm curious about the insulin thing, though. I have NEVER, NEVER had a high insulin reading. (if anything, it's the other way -- when I went into the ob/gyn for a sugar test, after drinking the nasty orange syrup, my blood sugar was 50 something!!:eek:)

 

I can tell you that when I've tried cutting out carbs/sugar/etc and caffeine, I feel like crap for a few days and then start to feel better. My cycle regulates and things go smoothly. BUT, I've never been able to lose more than 5 - 10 lbs.

 

Wow, that is interesting that your blood sugar was that low. I can't explain that at all, but I do know from experience and reading that it is very common to feel awful for the first few days of a low-carb diet, so just know you weren't alone in that! :) The way I've heard it explained is that you feel terrible while your body is making the switch from using carbs as fuel to using fat as fuel. That's a big oversimplification of course, but after that fourth day, I found that I felt the best I had felt in years!

[Greta]

It depends on the quality of the doctor and also how learned they are about pcos. My primary care physician put me on metformin and did nothing else. I was eventually assigned to a reproductive endocrinologist who used to run a program at Yale and is now running a program at UC Davis. He knew his stuff. He is at the top of his field. He basically gave me a terrible scenario about how I was going to die from this if I didn't do what I need to do and then tons of info on what to eat and how to exercise. His stats on what was going to become of me were indeed correct (and scary!). Most doctors just don't have the latest info and that's why none of my other docs have ever scared me that bad. :tongue_smilie:

 

And that's what happened to the second of my two friends who were diagnosed with PCOS: metformin. And nothing else.

 

I am glad you found such a good doctor! Would you happen to have a link that I could share with my friends? I know they both eat rather poorly (typical American kind of diet) and I would like to help them and point them to something beneficial, but not come across preachy or judgmental. Sometimes it's a fine line.

[Sputterduck]

And that's what happened to the second of my two friends who were diagnosed with PCOS: metformin. And nothing else.

 

I am glad you found such a good doctor! Would you happen to have a link that I could share with my friends? I know they both eat rather poorly (typical American kind of diet) and I would like to help them and point them to something beneficial, but not come across preachy or judgmental. Sometimes it's a fine line.

 

This forum! http://www.soulcysters.net/ It's great and the ladies there are always up to date on the latest discoveries. There are even a few who were in the d-chiro inositol trials a few years back. A drug company ran the trials and was going to make it as a prescription drug, which would have been great for people with insurance. They dropped it all without explanation though. A chemist in Texas heard about it and started making it, but he charges an arm and a leg. :glare: Really, though, the proper diet is far cheaper and works well.

 

Anywho, the ladies on there can give them any and all info they need. :001_smile:

[Verity]

Do you have any information you can pass on to me about the PCOS diet? I self-diagnosed (and had tests to prove later) PCOS about 10 years ago but the doctors at the time didn't know what to do. I tried Metformin for a week and decided to stop. My PCOS goes into remission when I'm dieting )low carbish) but seems to pop it's head back up any other time.

BTW, I really liked the No S diet, reading that now and forwarding to my hubby!

 

 

Well, I can speak to the PCOS and Carb issue a tiny bit. My dr. recommended the pcos diet **after** I turned down bc and another med -- she kind of rolled her eyes and said, "well, you might want to try this, then, some ppl like it." It was a flyer for a book about pcos and diet.

 

So, I tried it.

 

I was supposed to go back after three months to have my ovaries re checked but havent' yet. As a result, I dont' know what impact the diet has had on my ovaries.

 

However, as soon as I started it I started sleeping after having been a serious insomniac for many, Many MANY years. Also, after having been on it for a couple of months I lost quite a bit of weight with no effort whatsoever. Seeing the weight come off was a real kick in the pants and I wanted to lose more and started No S-ing (www.everydaysystems.com) and

 

 

******I FEEL GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***************

 

The basic idea is to limit refined carbs to almost never, eat non-refined carbs in the company of protein balancing all meals with a 1:1 carb/protein not to exceede two servings of carbs per meal. Eat lots of fruits and veggies most of which do not count as carbs in the way this dr./author meant it.

 

I build each plate with a protein or more and plenty of fruit or veggies and add a carb if I want it.

 

I notice the more carbs I eat, the less I sleep. This is uber important to me. So, say . . . halloween weekend I slept fine but I didnt' sleep well Monday and worse last night. I'm back on track and hopefully will sleep well either tomorrow or the next night.

 

Sleep is an incredibly motivating factor!

[Greta]

This forum! http://www.soulcysters.net/

 

Thank you so much! :001_smile:

[i.love.lucy]

The basic idea is to limit refined carbs to almost never, eat non-refined carbs in the company of protein balancing all meals with a 1:1 carb/protein

 

This is what I've had to do. I believe that my body's response to refined carbs is really, really bad, and the reason I can't lose weight unless I very strictly restrict carbs. I do also, unfortunatley, have to watch the calories though too. I can't lose weight sitting around eating bacon and ranch dressing. I also can't lose weight on WW because it's too easy to include things like pasta and bread and deserts - but that was me.

 

I'm now on Medifast and feeling better than I ever have (aside from H1N1 right now:glare:). I've been on it a month and have lost 16.5 lbs. I have tons more energy. It's basically a 1:1 carb/protein ratio and I have found this to be what my body needs for weight loss and feeling good.

 

If only refined carbs were easier to resist. I wish they smelled like fish, then I'd have no problem. ;)

[JenneinCA]

I saw the post about Sugar, the Bitter Truth and watched it. But I must have missed the other one. Could someone help me find the Gary Taubes video?

 

Please?

 

Thank you

[Kathleen in VA]

I saw the post about Sugar, the Bitter Truth and watched it. But I must have missed the other one. Could someone help me find the Gary Taubes video?

 

Please?

 

Thank you

 

It's in the 4th post in this thread:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136774&highlight=taubes

[JenneinCA]

Thank you. I will watch it tonight.