Transcript Dilemma...Advice needed from BTDT folks

[Bev in B'ville]

Okay, here's the deal: Last year, dd took Precalculus at home with me (using Chalkdust) and I, of course, put that on her transcript along with her grade and one credit. This year, Dd began attending CC this Fall and one of her classes is Precalculus (the CC has a strange rule about this - Dd has the ACT score to start at Precalculus - which is as high as they'll let anyone start who hasn't had AP Calculus).

 

So, my question is thus: Do I let dd keep both Precalculus courses on her transcript or will that look strange? She would end up with the one credit from last year, and the grade and one credit from her class this Fall (as it's stands now, both grades would be A's). Or, do I delete last year's Precalculus and let the one from the CC stand? (It bugs me that basically she would not have a math credit from last year - all her hard work for the whole year basically erased.)

 

Has anyone else had to deal with this with your dc? What did you do? How did the colleges/universities your dc applied to view it?

[dkholland]

Did the chalkdust list any Trig in her course last year? I know my son took a precalc type course his junior year, but it was actually called Functions, Statistics, and Trig. Could you rename the course you gave her last year?? I would hate to not have a math listed too, when most colleges are looking for 4 yrs. of math. Will she be taking another math at the cc this year? We have counted one semester of cc as a year-long high school course...so if she was taking another math in the spring you could just list that math on the transcript. Does that make sense??

HTH

[OLG]

Karen's idea for Trig is great!

 

Another thought - did she do Algebra 2? If so, can you call it Algebra 3 or College Algebra? I am not familiar with the breakdown of topics in the Chalkdust series but it seems reasonable to include the work she did last year despite it being the same title as the CC class.

 

Hope you get additional suggestions!

 

Mary

[Bev in B'ville]

Did the chalkdust list any Trig in her course last year? I know my son took a precalc type course his junior year, but it was actually called Functions, Statistics, and Trig. Could you rename the course you gave her last year?? I would hate to not have a math listed too, when most colleges are looking for 4 yrs. of math. Will she be taking another math at the cc this year? We have counted one semester of cc as a year-long high school course...so if she was taking another math in the spring you could just list that math on the transcript. Does that make sense??

HTH

 

 

She'll be taking Calculus I in the Spring, but the dilemma is that the colleges/universities she's applying to would see Precalculus on her College transcript for dual enrollment and her high school transcript. I suppose I could rename her home course "Advanced Algebra and Trigonometry," which is what the course is comprised of. She's already had Algebra I, II, and Geometry, so Precalculus completed the four courses; now she'll add Precalculus, Calculus I, II, and III from the CC (she's a junior in high school this year, so she'll be taking more courses next year).

[Jann in TX]

Just count the Pre-Calc that she took at home as a high school credit--and then count the Calculus courses she takes as 'dual' credit courses--counting for both high school AND college.

 

The second Pre-Calc course WILL count on her college GPA--but does not have to count on her high school GPA-- the course would be 'concurrent' instead of 'dual' enrollment.

 

My dd will be taking Chemistry 1 at the local CC next spring. She took high school Chemistry last year--but the CC says she would have to take their Chem 1 class before going into Chem 2... so she will take it 'concurrent' and I will only count her high school Chemistry class on her high school transcript. Next fall she plans on taking Chem 2 at the CC. "I" will give her high school credit for Advanced Chemistry (dual enrollment) and the CC will give her college credit. The CC will furnish its own transcript of her CC classes for 'college credit' and when she starts college full time I will submit my high school transcript AND the CC transcript.

 

I would NOT re-name the SAME course. High school Pre-Calc is the SAME level course (and content) as College Pre-Calc--the only difference is you can't claim college credit. She will be GLAD that she had Pre-Calc in high school first as the one-semester class moves too quickly for most students! (so it will be mostly review for her--and a different perspective).

 

Your dd will have MORE THAN ENOUGH math credits when she graduates--she does not NEED to have the second Pre-Calc class on her high school transcript...

[Nan in Mass]

Is your transcript organized according to subject or according to year? Are you specifying a "begin" date on your high school transcript or not? If you are organizing according to subject, I think I would just list two years - algebra 2 and geometry, and then list the pre-calc and calc she takes at CC. (Or if she blasted through the alg and geo in less than a year apiece, I would list all three). If you are listing according to year, then I would list the pre-calc twice because otherwise you will have a year with no math listed, or you will have to lie about when the math was taken. I would be careful to have at least four years of math listed on the transcript. My oldest took pre-calc his junior year and then decided he didn't want to take calc his senior year. He didn't want to take math at all but the guidance councilor said he had to have four years of math on his transcript and signed him up for statistics, which was so easy he slept through it. Then after working a few years, he decided to go to a math/science oriented college and that statistics class saved him. Whatever I did, I would make sure to have four years of math, or if I listed according to year, no gaps.

 

(And in case anyone wonders how all that came about: He wanted to quit school, knew he shouldn't, and decided that if he took easy classes, he might just barely be able to keep going another year. It wasn't an ideal situation but we gave him lots of credit for not quitting at that point. Why we didn't just pull him out and stick him in the CC is beyond me. Sigh. But anyway...)

 

-Nan

[8filltheheart]

I agree with Jann.

 

My oldest took a full yr of pre-cal at home and then pre-cal 2 dual enrollment. I simply labeled it "college pre-calculus 2" on his transcript. I gave him full credit for both. No one questioned his transcript at all.

[Janet in WA]

So, my question is thus: Do I let dd keep both Precalculus courses on her transcript or will that look strange? She would end up with the one credit from last year, and the grade and one credit from her class this Fall (as it's stands now, both grades would be A's). Or, do I delete last year's Precalculus and let the one from the CC stand? (It bugs me that basically she would not have a math credit from last year - all her hard work for the whole year basically erased.)

Include both credits on her transcript. Be clear that the second credit was earned at the cc. Let this information stand for itself, and let the universities make of it what they will. If her transcript is clear and honest and complete, you'll be fine.

[Bev in B'ville]

is that I'm pretty sure I don't want any of her dual enrollment courses to count as college courses. I'm more interested in showing that she can do college level work, outside the home. So, between her AP classes and these college classes I hopefully have that base covered and mommy grades won't come into question.

 

The CC she's attending is not what I would call academically challenging (e.g. the minimum SAT score for admittance is 960 if that gives you an inkling) and the schools my dd wants to apply to are considered extremely challenging. I would rather she go in as an incoming freshman and have the whole "college experience" and use that time to mature as well. There's absolutely no reason I can identify why she should hurry through college.

 

As to how my transcript is organized: Up until this year I homeschooled year round, which allowed my dc to progress at a faster pace (no need for weeks of review before beginnng the next level). Dd breezed through Alg. 1, and then took Alg. 2 and Geometry concurrently (which took another 8 months and 7 months respectively). Precalculus took a normal school year to complete. I did not organize my transcript by grade level/year, but by subject, which made the most sense for us.

[8filltheheart]

is that I'm pretty sure I don't want any of her dual enrollment courses to count as college courses. I'm more interested in showing that she can do college level work' date=' outside the home. So, between her AP classes and these college classes I hopefully have that base covered and mommy grades won't come into question.

 

The CC she's attending is not what I would call academically challenging (e.g. the minimum SAT score for admittance is 960 if that gives you an inkling) and the schools my dd wants to apply to are considered extremely challenging. I would rather she go in as an incoming freshman and have the whole "college experience" and use that time to mature as well. There's absolutely no reason I can identify why she should hurry through college.

 

As to how my transcript is organized: Up until this year I homeschooled year round, which allowed my dc to progress at a faster pace (no need for weeks of review before beginnng the next level). Dd breezed through Alg. 1, and then took Alg. 2 and Geometry concurrently (which took another 8 months and 7 months respectively). Precalculus took a normal school year to complete. I did not organize my transcript by grade level/year, but by subject, which made the most sense for us.[/quote']

 

Are you planning on submitting the transcript from the CC?

 

It can get complicated from here. Some universities will NOT allow students to retake courses they have already completed. It is b/c of this policy that we did not allow our ds to take any math or science at the CC but only dual enroll at the university for those subjects since he was planning on majoring in engineering.

 

Other universities won't accept any dual enrollment credits and make students re-take all courses there.

 

Others will allow them to re-take them if they so desire.

 

So........ultimately, it may not be your choice. :tongue_smilie:

[Jann in TX]

The colleges we have looked at REQUIRED that you disclose any college or CC transcripts within the past 10 years.

 

My dd is taking CC classes and will not have the option to NOT submit the CC transcript to the colleges she applies to... and they WILL count on her college GPA if the university accepts the transfer courses....

 

Even at the CC we had to sign a statement saying that dd had not received credit at another higher ed. institution.

 

If you flunk out of one college (or don't like your grades)--you just can't start again at a different college without the first one's GPA showing up somewhere...luckily most employers are just looking for the degree date and RARELY check GPA.

 

As a parent you have the option of counting the CC courses on your high school transcript or not... (dual enrollment does--concurrent enrollment does not). Any credits AND grades earned by your student at the CC will be placed in a cumulative college transcript file.

[Bev in B'ville]

I plan on submitting the grades and the transcript from both high school and the CC to the colleges she applies to. However, dd is writing a letter asking them specifically to not accept the credits as college credits, just to accept them as high school courses. Many of the more demanding colleges she's applying to will not accept transfer courses of any kind any way, but for the ones that will she's asking them not to.

 

I have no intention of not disclosing her college courses or grades; that was never my intention. I WANT to show that she's capable of doing college level work and showing grades on her high school transcript that didn't come from me. I just don't want the college/university she ends up attending giving her credit for them. My goal (and my dd's too) is that she goes to the college/university as a freshman.

[Janet in WA]

is that I'm pretty sure I don't want any of her dual enrollment courses to count as college courses. I'm more interested in showing that she can do college level work, outside the home. So, between her AP classes and these college classes I hopefully have that base covered and mommy grades won't come into question.

 

The CC she's attending is not what I would call academically challenging (e.g. the minimum SAT score for admittance is 960 if that gives you an inkling) and the schools my dd wants to apply to are considered extremely challenging. I would rather she go in as an incoming freshman and have the whole "college experience" and use that time to mature as well.

 

You won't have any choice in the matter. You will be required to submit the cc transcript to universities to which she applies, and the university which she eventually attends will decide if/how they count the cc credits toward the degree she'll be seeking at that university.

[Janet in WA]

 

I just don't want the college/university she ends up attending giving her credit for them. My goal (and my dd's too) is that she goes to the college/university as a freshman.

The universities to which our sons applied had clear, stated policies about the status of students coming in with cc credits under their belts. It will be interesting to see of your daughter's request makes any difference.

[Bev in B'ville]

You won't have any choice in the matter. You will be required to submit the cc transcript to universities to which she applies, and the university which she eventually attends will decide if/how they count the cc credits toward the degree she'll be seeking at that university.

 

Yes, but an admissions person told us she could write a letter with her request for not accepting the credits as college credits and they would consider the request. As an aside, one person in particular told us that her letter would carry a lot of weight, given that most colleges/universities don't want to accept transfer credit anyway. It means loss of $$ to them for classes not taken by dd.

[Jann in TX]

My oldest dd is changing her major and was told by the college counselor to write a letter to the college asking them to accept one of her art classes as a substitute for a fine-arts requisite. The counselor said they pay attention to student letters--but they do not guarantee a positive result!

 

The universities my middle dd is applying to have an agreement with the CC--the CC's courses MUST meet their standards. We do not have a choice of which ones to count--they all will!

 

It is possible for middle dd to complete her freshman credits by dual enrollment BEFORE she graduates high school. Under the agreement she will still be considered an entering freshman for scholarship purposes--but after the fall term she will be classified as a Sophomore. (Same process I went through 25 years ago!).

[Kareni]

My vote ~

 

I would include both last year's course at home and this year's community college course on your transcript. I agree that I would not want my daughter to appear to have done no math last year. What I would do is include in your counselor letter or on your transcript a note to the effect that the Precalculus course at the community college was a prerequisite for further coursework there. Given that your daughter will also have credits due to Calculus, she will not come up short even if the colleges to which she is applying note the duplication.

 

Transcripts are fun, aren't they?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Musicmom]

My vote ~

 

I would include both last year's course at home and this year's community college course on your transcript. I agree that I would not want my daughter to appear to have done no math last year. What I would do is include in your counselor letter or on your transcript a note to the effect that the Precalculus course at the community college was a prerequisite for further coursework there. Given that your daughter will also have credits due to Calculus, she will not come up short even if the colleges to which she is applying note the duplication.

 

Transcripts are fun, aren't they?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

:iagree:I agree with Kareni. I would list both on the transcript, maybe something like:

 

Precalculus with Trigonometry for the home course and

Precalculus at X College for the CC course

 

Then I would add a footnote saying that Precalculus is required by X College. And you could explain it further in the counselor letter as well. I really don't think colleges will bat an eye when they see this. They understand prerequisites.

 

Also, maybe I'm off base or don't fully understand your concern, but I wouldn't worry about the CC credits. Your dd will be applying as a freshman, not a transfer student, so I'd just let the college do as it will with the credits. Many colleges won't transfer them (fine), and even if they do, I can't see anything bad happening as a result. Wouldn't your dd then just have some extra credits hanging around? She'll probably do placement testing and work with an advisor to choose the appropriate courses and path for her major, no matter what "year" she's classified as. Again, this is just a guess... I don't have direct experience yet. Ds is applying to colleges now, and has a number of credits from Stanford EPGY, so we'll see what happens.

[WTMindy]

I'm a little confused. Why would you not want to transfer the credits? You can still give her 4 years of college, right? It would just give her more freedom in what she takes. She might not have to take English 101 because she already took it. Instead, she could take British Lit or some other more fun higher level course. It would also give her more freedom to take electives in her schedule. Maybe I'm missing something. :-)

[Nan in Mass]

I can see this. If she takes calculus at the CC and it is different, maybe by covering different subjects or by having inferior teaching or by not getting as far because the students in the class have holes or struggle, it could be a problem. The calculus would transfer, and the university might say she had already taken it and she wasn't allowed to take it again, and she would then have to take the next level up courses having had bad foundational ones. She also might have to take harder classes her freshman year, while she is having to get used to being away at college.

 

My middle son is in this situation now. Having taken composition at CC, he was put into Humanities 1 freshman year. Most of the rest of the freshman are taking composition, which has less reading and thus is less time consuming. The school tries to give their first semester freshmen an easy course load because they also are having to get used to having regimental duties and living at college. For example, at the beginning of the semester, it took my son forever to starch and iron his shirt. They call it giving the freshman a chance to learn time management, but my sons laugh about that because what that really means is getting used to not doing anything except work; there is no time to manage. Everything eventually speeds up and becomes more managable but it is pretty wild at the beginning. The school tried to mitigate the problem in my son's case by only giving him 12 credits, but that means he doesn't have the option of dropping something if he is doing poorly in it. My son still had that problem and he is at a school where they try to keep all their freshmen (hence the 12 credits). Many schools try to eliminate some of the freshmen population.

-Nan

[Janet in WA]

She also might have to take harder classes her freshman year, while she is having to get used to being away at college.

Our middle son had a problem with this. He graduated from high school with enough cc credits to start at the university as a junior (academically). This was tough for him, and he envied the other freshmen who had an easier time adjusting because of their much easier academic load. He also said there was a gap in some areas between the rigor of the prerequisites he completed at the cc and the upper level classes at the university. His fellow students who completed those prerequisites at the university didn't have to struggle as much as he did. Edited November 4, 2009 by Janet in WA

[Bev in B'ville]

Janet and Nan,

 

You've nailed my trepidation on the head in regards to her transferring in as anything other than a freshman! Thank you for your BTDT perspectives. You've conveyed exactly what I so ineptly could not. There's something intangible, but nevertheless important, about coming in as a freshman and taking those foundational classes with other freshmen; the people you'll spend the next four years with - a sort of bonding experience.

[8filltheheart]

Janet and Nan' date='

 

You've nailed my trepidation on the head in regards to her transferring in as anything other than a freshman! Thank you for your BTDT perspectives. You've conveyed exactly what I so ineptly could not. There's something intangible, but nevertheless important, about coming in as a freshman and taking those foundational classes with other freshmen; the people you'll spend the next four years with - a sort of bonding experience.[/quote']

 

From a different perspective.......my ds entered with 18 hrs credit. He had zero problems adjusting to college life and classes. He is focused and driven. He has taken summer courses the last couple of summers as well and attained senior status before his 20th birthday.

 

He avoided freshman. He looked for serious upper classman to form study groups with. He wanted to avoid the kids that were all "experimenting with spreading their wings" and hang out with kids that knew where they were going and what they were doing.

 

I really think this is really dependent on personality and academic ability.

[LoriM]

Yes, my daughter entered the university with an associate's degree under her belt (66 hours transferred 100%), and is graduating in December at age 20. She also avoided freshmen in her math courses and never had to take large survey courses in any area except art history. I think it has been to her advantage that she completed math through Calculus at home, then "backed up" and completed College Algebra through a BA in mathematics at the college level. She had 10 credits of math in high school, including both "Intro to Calculus" (at home) and "Honors Calculus" (taken at the CC).

[WTMindy]

So, are you saying that if you come in to a 4 year college with a calculus credit on your transcript from a cc, they won't let you re-take calculus at their school? I guess I would be more likely to have the college accept what I had done and then petition them to retake any classes that I felt I needed. I did not realize that if you come in as a junior you are not allowed to take Freshman classes. That doesn't really make sense to me since I came into college as a sophomore with AP credits and I took typically freshman classes.

[Janet in WA]

From a different perspective.......my ds entered with 18 hrs credit. He had zero problems adjusting to college life and classes. He is focused and driven. He has taken summer courses the last couple of summers as well and attained senior status before his 20th birthday.

 

He avoided freshman. He looked for serious upper classman to form study groups with. He wanted to avoid the kids that were all "experimenting with spreading their wings" and hang out with kids that knew where they were going and what they were doing.

 

I really think this is really dependent on personality and academic ability.

For our son, it wasn't about personality or academic ability, it was about maturity. He also had almost 90 quarter credits (just shy of an AA) when he started at the university. This was totally his choice -- we did not push him at all. And he said that even with the challenges of making this transition from cc to university with so many credits, he didn't regret his dual enrollment experience. No doubt my son's experience doesn't represent everyone's. But Bev's concerns are not unfounded. And she knows her daughter better than any of us do. Edited November 4, 2009 by Janet in WA

[Nan in Mass]

Sigh. My older one avoided freshmen when he was a freshmen, but my younger one is enjoying it when his friends draw moustaches with sharpies on their sleeping buddies. I will say though that he has found a friend who has already had AP calculus with whom to do his calc problems. He entered college with 26 credits, most of which transfered, but nobody even mentioned the possiblity of his entering as anything other than a freshman. This particular college, though, warns transfer students that they will probably not be able to graduate in less than three years because of the number of specialized classes required. -Nan

Edited November 5, 2009 by Nan in Mass

[Julie in MN]

So, are you saying that if you come in to a 4 year college with a calculus credit on your transcript from a cc, they won't let you re-take calculus at their school? I guess I would be more likely to have the college accept what I had done and then petition them to retake any classes that I felt I needed. I did not realize that if you come in as a junior you are not allowed to take Freshman classes. That doesn't really make sense to me since I came into college as a sophomore with AP credits and I took typically freshman classes.

 

My oldest son (not homeschooled) took calculus at the high school, and then at the community college for dual credit, and then at his actual college (CSM, an engineering college). I can't imagine that a college would turn down the tuition for a course just because one has already taken the course at a community college or high school?

 

Julie