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Would you complain if...(PSAT related)


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...your local high school:

 

1. cut the last section of the PSAT by 5 minutes because the kids were all complaining they were going to miss a skit.

 

2. allowed a kid to chomp food and slurp a drink across the table from your ds during the entire exam.

 

3. ran long announcements over the loud speaker during the exam. (They do this every year and I never thought to complain until #'s 1 & 2 occurred yesterday.)

 

And if you would complain, to whom would you make your complaint?

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...your local high school:

 

1. cut the last section of the PSAT by 5 minutes because the kids were all complaining they were going to miss a skit.

 

2. allowed a kid to chomp food and slurp a drink across the table from your ds during the entire exam.

 

3. ran long announcements over the loud speaker during the exam. (They do this every year and I never thought to complain until #'s 1 & 2 occurred yesterday.)

 

And if you would complain, to whom would you make your complaint?

 

Yes. I would contact the school (principal/guidance dept) and the PSAT board. The announcements--the school needs to address this issue and change what they are doing that day if they cannot turn the speakers in that room off during the exam. The food is mentioned in the rules for taking the PSAT--it is not allowed. These two are irritating and the school needs to know that they need to take testing more seriously.

 

The 5 minutes? That is illegally administering the test. If a school cannot administer the test with the accurate amount of time, then they should not be administering it. The PSAT should know about this one imo.

 

Jean

Edited by Jean in Wisc
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Yes I would. The PSAT can be huge toward scholarships if the student is working for the National Merit Scholarship and to have it hindered by allowing such behavior is unacceptable. (It's not fair to the other students either.)

 

There were strict rules where dd took her PSAT. Nothing was allowed on the desk during the test (except a calculator for the math sections) or your test would be taken away.

 

And the last 5 minutes could mean a make it or break it score for someone.

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Yes. I would contact the school (principal/guidance dept) and the PSAT board. The announcements--the school needs to address this issue and change what they are doing that day if they cannot turn the speakers in that room off during the exam. The food is mentioned in the rules for taking the PSAT--it is not allowed. These two are irritating and the school needs to know that they need to take testing more seriously.

 

The 5 minutes? That is illegally administering the test. If a school cannot administer the test with the accurate amount of time, then they should not be administering it. The PSAT should know about this one imo.

 

Jean

I agree with Jean wholeheartedly. The school did all the kids a disservice by not following proper protocol for the PSAT. No part of exam should not be cut short because of a skit, or be interrupted by either announcements or food.

 

I would definitely complain to the school and to PSAT; whether or not the school does anything is one matter, but I believe that PSAT will ensure that this never happens again. Personally, I would even ask the people at PSAT whether or not your child might have an opportunity to retake the exam somewhere else.

 

It just boggles my mind that the school would think these practices were in any way acceptable. Call them, and call PSAT, as soon as possible.

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I agree with all of you. The whole incident possibly cost my son a full scholarship to his first choice college. He had carefully planned his time on that test and has been scoring above the Idaho cutoff (for past years) on all his practice tests.

 

But I'll tell you, here are my concerns. We live in a very small town. Incredible effort has gone into establishing good homeschool/public school relations in this community. What we enjoy here was accomplished mostly by an older homeschool mom who got herself elected to the school board and served with diplomacy for years. Dh has also put all kinds of effort into good relations as he sees most of the teachers and administrators as patients. I could just see my complaint jeopardizing all these feelings of good will. If you've ever lived in a small town, you kwim.

 

I want it to be a good testing environment for my next eight kids who will test there. But, I could just see the school saying, "I'm sorry, we have no more room for the homeschoolers to test here." (Could they do that?)

 

What about an anonymous complaint to the college board? Am I just a chicken?

Edited by Luann in ID
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I agree with all of you. The whole incident possibly cost my son a full scholarship to his first choice college. He had carefully planned his time on that test and has been scoring above the Idaho cutoff (for past years) on all his practice tests.

 

But I'll tell you, here are my concerns. We live in a very small town. Incredible effort has gone into establishing good homeschool/public school relations in this community. What we enjoy here was accomplished mostly by an older homeschool mom who got herself elected to the school board and served with diplomacy for years. Dh has also put all kinds of effort into good relations as he sees most of the teachers and administrators as patients. I could just see my complaint jeopardizing all these feelings of good will. If you've ever lived in a small town, you kwim.

 

I want it to be a good testing environment for my next eight kids who will test there. But, I could just see the school saying, "I'm sorry, we have no more room for the homeschoolers to test here." (Could they do that?)

 

What about an anonymous complaint to the college board? Am I just a chicken?

 

Our kids take their PSAT in a different school district. Ours does not allow sophomores to take it at all. They are really not open to homeschoolers in oh, so many ways---so we just move to the next town who will let us test there.

 

Jean

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I could just see my complaint jeopardizing all these feelings of good will. If you've ever lived in a small town, you kwim.

 

I'm in a small town, too, and I can understand your hesitation. My son also had some issues with the testing (ringing bells, announcements, time not being called, etc.) but even if I complain, there won't be any recourse for him (that I can think of).

 

For me, I will probably mention the issues to the counselor but stop there. I don't see any benefit in involving the PSAT. I believe our school will understand the concerns and try to make better accommodations next year. But if I involve PSAT, I may cause the school undue stress which will negatively impact future relationships.

 

DS was so borderline on his practice tests. If he scored at least as well on the real thing, he would be in the running for NM. But the counselor neglected to give a 5 minute warning as he had said he would - hence ds had to scramble when time was called on one test. He had expected the warning. And the bell was annoying to say the least. But there is no way I can say that these things would have been the ultimate cause of him not scoring high enough.

 

So, I'm going to leave PSAT out of it and try to work for a better environment next time. Small town living is wonderful but there can be complications :-)

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I agree with all of you. The whole incident possibly cost my son a full scholarship to his first choice college. He had carefully planned his time on that test and has been scoring above the Idaho cutoff (for past years) on all his practice tests.

 

But I'll tell you, here are my concerns. We live in a very small town. Incredible effort has gone into establishing good homeschool/public school relations in this community. What we enjoy here was accomplished mostly by an older homeschool mom who got herself elected to the school board and served with diplomacy for years. Dh has also put all kinds of effort into good relations as he sees most of the teachers and administrators as patients. I could just see my complaint jeopardizing all these feelings of good will. If you've ever lived in a small town, you kwim.

 

I want it to be a good testing environment for my next eight kids who will test there. But, I could just see the school saying, "I'm sorry, we have no more room for the homeschoolers to test here." (Could they do that?)

 

What about an anonymous complaint to the college board? Am I just a chicken?

Luann, we live in a small town, too, although we didn't run into the testing problems you did.

 

Check with PSAT, but I'm almost certain that your kids can take the PSAT at another school. I remember asking someone from PSAT during a phone conversation about a minor discrepancy when my oldest took the PSAT at our local p.s., and I was told that she was allowed to take the PSAT at another school, if necessary.

 

In our case, the minor discrepancy was this: the school's guidance counselor, who had not administered the PSAT to a homeschooler before, mistakenly told my dd to fill out "No, not a full-time high school student" on those four questions that appear on the right-hand side of the test form. Since this happened during her sophomore year, this mistake didn't count against her potential to qualify for the NMSQT in her junior year. PSAT gladly fixed the problem for me with her records, and I also called the high school guidance counselor to advise her of this fact in the future---i.e., yes, my daughter was a full-time high school student---just not at their school. Those four questions must be answered correctly in order for the student to qualify for the NMSQT. The counselor was apologetic and gracious.

 

Back to your situation: I would definitely contact PSAT first and tell them about these testing problems; I would also ask if your ds could re-take the test somewhere else. Once you have that established, then contact the local school, and I would let them know in no uncertain terms (perhaps a letter would be better) that the very poor way they administered this test could have cost your ds a scholarship, as well as other students, and make sure that you've cc'd PSAT in on your correspondence.

 

As far as future relations with the school, I do understand your concern. Despite that, I think the school did a real disservice to all these kids in the way that they administered the PSAT, and you may find a better approach with the school (i.e., more tactful) than I'm suggesting. However, I would definitely contact PSAT and request an additional testing date, as well as report the problem with the school, perhaps asking them for their advice on how to handle the matter. I would definitely seek out a different testing site for the next year (or, is this your ds's junior year?) and ask that school how they administer the test and what protocols they follow.

 

My best wishes to you. I know this has to be frustrating! :)

Edited by Michelle in MO
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or, is this your ds's junior year

 

Yes, this is my son's junior year.:sad: My other son was there as well as a sophomore.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful response. As soon as dh comes in from hunting we'll talk it over. He really wanted to see what all the wise women on the WTM board would suggest. :D He is willing to go do the talking if that is what we decide to do.

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so we just move to the next town who will let us test there.

 

This is definitely something to consider. It would be more than an hour away, and I'm not sure it would be a better situation, although I'm having a hard time seeing how it could be worse. :confused:

 

Thanks for your thoughtful responses, Jean.

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Michelle, can a student re-take the PSAT? I was under the impression that it was only administered once a year. And if the student is a junior, it is just tough luck when things don't go right. I would definitely talk to PSAT if there was a way to have a student re-take the exam and have it still count for this year.

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They are offering the PSAT on THIS SATURDAY at some sites. You'll need to work quickly. Jean

Jean is right; move very quickly.

 

Cynthia, normally speaking, kids can only take the PSAT once a year. However, I think it's worth a phone call to PSAT as soon as possible to see if it can be rescheduled for this Saturday. I would ask the people at PSAT if they can allow the child to re-take the test at another location this Saturday. The test is always offered during the middle of October, on the Wednesday and Saturday of that middle week.

 

I know my previous post sounded someone peevish, but I would be very upset if this had happened to my oldest during her junior year.

 

Luann, I would do what Jean suggests and move quickly. Call PSAT, tell them about your situation, and ask if your ds can possibly re-take the test. If so, get him registered immediately.

 

Please keep us updated! I hope this works out for you and your ds!

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Jean is right; move very quickly.

 

Cynthia, normally speaking, kids can only take the PSAT once a year. However, I think it's worth a phone call to PSAT as soon as possible to see if it can be rescheduled for this Saturday. I would ask the people at PSAT if they can allow the child to re-take the test at another location this Saturday. The test is always offered during the middle of October, on the Wednesday and Saturday of that middle week.

 

I know my previous post sounded someone peevish, but I would be very upset if this had happened to my oldest during her junior year.

 

Luann, I would do what Jean suggests and move quickly. Call PSAT, tell them about your situation, and ask if your ds can possibly re-take the test. If so, get him registered immediately.

 

Please keep us updated! I hope this works out for you and your ds!

 

Okay, I just got off the phone with the College Board. I spoke anonymously and didn't give the school's name. Unfortunately I made the call before I saw this post and didn't think to ask if he could retake it this Saturday. That was a good idea though.

 

They say to call the school's coordinator and see what should be done, but it's out of their hands unless I file a complaint in which case they would do a thorough investigation and make a decision based on the findings. I should have marched right back into that school yesterday to demand he get to finish it, but that's seriously not at all in my nature. The college board said that if they already sent the tests in, there's nothing the school can do. Arggghhh. Now I'm trying to decide if I call the school. Dh and ds are out hunting. Double arggghhh.

Edited by Luann in ID
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Just called the school to talk to the test coordinator. Had to leave a message on voice mail. I'll keep you posted.

 

Update: Called back because the person who directed me to voice mail is a counselor I have spoken with in person a few times. I'd rather talk to her anyway. I told her the situation. She didn't think there was anything that could be done. She thought the tests had been mailed off already. She was apologetic, but blamed in on homecoming. (This is one reason I homeschool, but that's beside the point!) I urged her to consider making it a more test friendly environment when so many 10's of thousands of dollars ride on it for some kids.

 

I feel like a total idiot for not going back into the school yesterday. Maybe now we should direct this conversation to my conflict avoidance issues. . .

Edited by Luann in ID
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Update: Called back because the person who directed me to voice mail is a counselor I have spoken with in person a few times. I'd rather talk to her anyway. I told her the situation. She didn't think there was anything that could be done. She thought the tests had been mailed off already. She was apologetic, but blamed in on homecoming. (This is one reason I homeschool, but that's beside the point!) I urged her to consider making it a more test friendly environment when so many 10's of thousands of dollars ride on it for some kids.

 

 

 

I would be livid with that response! Totally uncalled for! They did not administer the test properly. Period. They should be accountable.

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I would be livid with that response! Totally uncalled for! They did not administer the test properly. Period. They should be accountable.

 

Yup...livid...especially as a parent, but also as a tax payer because I would like to know my tax dollars are supporting scholarship in our local schools, but what I want and what is going to happen....If only they would let me run the world.:smash:

 

In terms of holding them accountable, I think I've done all I'm going to do. I have to live in this small town. Usually I'm happy about that...lately not so much. I don't think there's anything more I can do for my son at this point. I'll just need to decide what to do next year for my next son.

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I now longer live in one! Then again, our state's MNSQT score is the highest in the country-maybe I need to move to a rural state again-LOL.

 

Anyway, I would contact the College Board again and see if there is any way for his exam to be cancelled somehow and for him to retake the exam Saturday. My junior is taking it Saturday. Look at whether there are any private schools nearby. I wanted ds to take it Saturday so found a private school that is administering it Saturday and we will take it then. I would think that if this happened, they might well be willing to allow a re-take, under the circumstances.

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Okay, I just got off the phone with the College Board. I spoke anonymously and didn't give the school's name. Unfortunately I made the call before I saw this post and didn't think to ask if he could retake it this Saturday. That was a good idea though.

 

They say to call the school's coordinator and see what should be done, but it's out of their hands unless I file a complaint in which case they would do a thorough investigation and make a decision based on the findings. I should have marched right back into that school yesterday to demand he get to finish it, but that's seriously not at all in my nature. The college board said that if they already sent the tests in, there's nothing the school can do. Arggghhh. Now I'm trying to decide if I call the school. Dh and ds are out hunting. Double arggghhh.

 

 

both with the school and with College Board. Can you call College Board again, give the name of the school, and give them all the specifics? I can't remember if you said that you could re-take the test, but if at all possible, I would see if the College Board would allow your ds to take the test at another school. Today is Thursday; you have only the rest of the day today (until the phone lines at the College Board close) and tomorrow.

 

There may be nothing your local school can do right now, but perhaps College Board will allow your ds to take the test at another school.

 

Best wishes and prayers for you! I hope this gets resolved in your favor.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by In The Great White North viewpost.gif

Call other schools in your area.

 

Our local high school has a sign up on the door still looking for more people to register for the PSAT this Saturday. I take it they have extras.

 

I don't think they'll allow it since he took it Wednesday.

__________________

 

Did you find this in writing somewhere? Because I've never seen that, just assumed they all took it on the same day, which apparently isn't the case.

 

It would be worth a phone call to the College Board to be sure.

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Did you find this in writing somewhere? Because I've never seen that, just assumed they all took it on the same day, which apparently isn't the case.

 

It would be worth a phone call to the College Board to be sure.

 

Nope, some has it one Wednesday and some on Saturday -as for us, it's on Saturday.

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Nope, some has it one Wednesday and some on Saturday -as for us, it's on Saturday.

Yes, it's always been offered on both Wednesday and Saturday, depending upon the location.

 

But, I would still call the College Board right away, Luann, to see if they'll allow your ds to take the test again at a different location.

 

Good luck!

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Argh. The coordinator answered my voice mail message. Somehow the conversation touched on my rights to operate as an independent homeschool in Idaho (perfectly legal in this state), whether or not the program I'm using is "certified" (whatever, also not required in our state), our reasons for not setting up our own PSAT testing site as independent homeschoolers (huh?), the shabby academic state of students they get who have been homeschooled previously, etc. I held my own, I think, and it ended on a good note with an apology for what happened and an invitation to take individual classes in their school (I don't think so).

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Luann,

 

I would call the CollegeBoard right back and have them cancel ds' score. They can do that. If they have to have the details to do it, then give them the reasons. Let them know that you do not want to file a formal complaint against the school because of the repercussions of small town living, ask them to annotate everything in your conversation in the records of the conversation that they will make, and tell them that you will follow this conversation up with a registered or certified letter putting your request and the reasons for it in writing.

 

Ask them for an alternate location for the test on Saturday, and then when you are done with the CB, call that location to make arrangements to take the test. Believe me that they do give different tests on Sat and on Wed, so that wouldn't prevent a kid from taking the test.

 

While you are on the phone, ask them about your son taking the SAT on an alternate date, to qualify for the NMSQT. This is done in rare cases in which a student cannot take the PSAT. You'll have to ask them to explain how it works, as I was told that it is a very closely kept secret that this is even possible. If you need details on this before you call the CollegeBoard, call Jean Burke (817-282-7737) and she can give you the skinny.

 

If he cannot take the Saturday test because there is no room or the school says not at this late date, then taking the SAT on another day may be the last resort.

 

Last thing, document your call with the name and position of the person(s) you speak with.

 

Luann, I'm sending you "more-than-mama mojo." You go, girl!! Think of yourself as his educational advocate--you can do this!

 

Blessings!

 

Valerie

 

 

Argh. The coordinator answered my voice mail message. Somehow the conversation touched on my rights to operate as an independent homeschool in Idaho (perfectly legal in this state), whether or not the program I'm using is "certified" (whatever, also not required in our state), our reasons for not setting up our own PSAT testing site as independent homeschoolers (huh?), the shabby academic state of students they get who have been homeschooled previously, etc. I held my own, I think, and it ended on a good note with an apology for what happened and an invitation to take individual classes in their school (I don't think so).
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Argh. The coordinator answered my voice mail message. Somehow the conversation touched on my rights to operate as an independent homeschool in Idaho (perfectly legal in this state), whether or not the program I'm using is "certified" (whatever, also not required in our state), our reasons for not setting up our own PSAT testing site as independent homeschoolers (huh?), the shabby academic state of students they get who have been homeschooled previously, etc. I held my own, I think, and it ended on a good note with an apology for what happened and an invitation to take individual classes in their school (I don't think so).

Oh my word. This is ridiculous. Was this the coordinator at the local high school? Oh---I would give up on them completely. This would infuriate me!

 

Have you heard back from the College Board? I've thought about you all day.

 

Just checking Valerie's advice---very, very good advice! My only addition would be: make sure your ds can take the test somewhere on Saturday before cancelling his score.

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Wow, Valerie. This is very informative. Thanks heaps and heaps.

 

I have left a message with the next town's high school to get them to call me to let me know if they're doing the PSAT Saturday.

 

And I'm waiting for dh and ds to get home to find out how they want me to proceed.

 

If I call the college board and have them cancel the score, they *will* know which school it was, and if that gets back to the school I will *not* be able to live in this town.

 

Thank you so much for all this information. I'll keep you posted.

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Perfect! Thank you. Going to check now.

 

Luann,

 

Since his paperwork on the first test shows that this is his score from the all-important junior year, I am concerned that you will have to do something through the CB to get the first score "anulled" so the second score will be the valid one. I'm not sure how that would work, but you get the idea.

 

You really are between a rock and a hard place! I'm so sorry!!

 

Valerie

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Argh. The coordinator answered my voice mail message. Somehow the conversation touched on my rights to operate as an independent homeschool in Idaho (perfectly legal in this state), whether or not the program I'm using is "certified" (whatever, also not required in our state), our reasons for not setting up our own PSAT testing site as independent homeschoolers (huh?), the shabby academic state of students they get who have been homeschooled previously, etc. I held my own, I think, and it ended on a good note with an apology for what happened and an invitation to take individual classes in their school (I don't think so).

 

Maybe they need to read this:

 

http://www.iche-idaho.org/idaholaw.html

 

We have one of the best homeschool laws in the nation and you still had to deal with this insanity. :grouphug: My dd is taking the PSAT on Sat. here in Boise, but it sounds like you are not near here. Good luck. I hope he can retake it if he wants to.

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Maybe they need to read this:

 

http://www.iche-idaho.org/idaholaw.html

 

We have one of the best homeschool laws in the nation and you still had to deal with this insanity. :grouphug: My dd is taking the PSAT on Sat. here in Boise, but it sounds like you are not near here. Good luck. I hope he can retake it if he wants to.

 

I gave her the rundown on our laws. I'm not sure if she was completely ignorant of them or if she simply didn't like them or if she was just trying to intimidate me. I do love this state though and I know we enjoy these homeschool freedoms thanks to the hard work of several folks you probably know down there in Boise.

 

Best wishes to your daughter on Saturday.

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It is selfish, I know, but I live in a small town and we are already odd. I try really hard not to rock any boats unless it is both terribly important and likely to change things. It would be fairly easy to not-complain because I also know that there are other mothers who would probably complain, and with more right to than I because they are more involved in the school. That, of course, would be my attitude after my husband had calmed me down and pointed out that complaining wouldn't be a good idea. I would, though, probably try to find someplace else for my son to test. Fight or flight - I try to choose flight when it involves my town because I've seen situations here where people's children suffered when their parents tried to change things too much. I've even seen people have to put their children in private school and eventually move. Small towns are wonderful in many ways, but you have to belong, and belonging involves a certain sense of loyalty...

-Nan

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It is selfish, I know, but I live in a small town and we are already odd. I try really hard not to rock any boats unless it is both terribly important and likely to change things. It would be fairly easy to not-complain because I also know that there are other mothers who would probably complain, and with more right to than I because they are more involved in the school. That, of course, would be my attitude after my husband had calmed me down and pointed out that complaining wouldn't be a good idea. I would, though, probably try to find someplace else for my son to test. Fight or flight - I try to choose flight when it involves my town because I've seen situations here where people's children suffered when their parents tried to change things too much. I've even seen people have to put their children in private school and eventually move. Small towns are wonderful in many ways, but you have to belong, and belonging involves a certain sense of loyalty...

-Nan

 

This is exactly how it is, Nan. Thanks for responding. It lets me know I'm not crazy for not wanting to make waves. It might be too late for that now, since I did already talk to two people at the school. I'm hoping they feel they owe me for next time, that they'd better get it right. And certainly they do owe it to all the kids in this town to take the testing seriously. But, I have to live here. Dh has to live here. Ds's eight younger siblings have to live here. In my mind, I keep going over the conversation I had with the coordinator, trying to decide if it ended well or not.

 

Yesterday, I called my friend, Ms. Diplomat, the one who sat on the school board for years. She was livid and thought I should have filed a complaint with the college board. She said she's going to talk to the coordinator. Yikes. I hope this doesn't escalate. But I don't think Ms. Diplomat will allow that. She has managed small town living for decades and is too smart to let this get worse...I hope.:001_unsure:

 

I couldn't find a Saturday test site within 2 1/2 hours of here (didn't look in other states). Dh had pretty much decided it was better to drop it at the point we were at anyway. Hopefully ds still scored above the cutoff. We'll see. If not, the whole thing was an injustice, but not the end of the world.

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Sigh and move on. You definately aren't crazy. I'd just think of all the nice things my son had gained from living in the small town instead of a city and weigh them in balance. I suspect you still come out quite far ahead.

 

Last spring, I questioned our new superintendent about some of the things in the new-to-me-because-nobody-had-ever-bothered-with-it-before homeschooling policy. The conversation went so wrong that we reached the point where she asked if I was going to do anything about it (meaning lawyers). I backed down fast, saying that we had always had a good relationship with the school and I didn't want that to change, that I just wanted to bring it to her attention that I thought maybe some of the items weren't legal. We left it at that and it haunted me for months. Then I got a letter saying that I had been sent an old version of the policy and here was the new one. The new one lacked most of the illegal bits. I have no idea whether I really had been sent an old version or not and I certainly am not going to ask. I suppose I could have called HSLDA and asked them to call the school, but I still think, even uncomfortable as the conversation was, that that would have been a mistake. This summer, I was afraid to ask about what they meant by "portfolio" (one of the new bits) and what to do about the fact that I hadn't received their new form before we left for vacation and it was going to be due before we got back, so I just improvised. At the beginning of school I got a nice phone call from the new curriculum director saying that the packet I had sent was great and contained everything they needed and we were all set and no hurry but could I please eventually send them the form. Phew! I hope you have a similar experience and this will all blow over and they'll just be more careful next year. And I hope your son makes the cutoff anyway.

 

-Nan

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