My son likes engineering but hates/struggles with math...

[yarrow]

My son has always been a slow methodical reader but when he started Algebra I, he started struggling in math. He finished Algebra I and we switched to Jacobs' Geometry. That didn't go any better although we worked through it. Now, he's in Algebra II and really having a hard time (spending at least 2 hours/day one-on-one with dh for one lesson). He's always had the ability to see things spacially & seeing how things work even when adults couldn't figure it out. He & I thought he'd enjoy mechanical or aeronautical engineering but with this struggle in math, should he be changing course?

 

BTW, he just turned 15 & is in 10th grade.

[rwjx2khsmj]

I'd say it depends on how determined he is and how he feels about trying and failing and trying again.

 

My dh is a very successful engineer who took every college math class (from remedial to advanced calculus) twice before achieving a grade that enabled him to move forward in his engineering classes. He loved the engineering - the application of concepts - but the math was always a struggle. He worked harder than anyone I know and succeeded in graduating. He is great at what he does and it has paid off for him.

 

Most of us take the path of least resistance. I know I did! For those that are really willing to work, despite the obstacles, I think the satisfaction and pay off is worth the effort.

[OneRoomSchoolHouse]

I have a chemical engineering degree and my dh is a civil engineer. Math did not really click with me until halfway through Algebra II (although I made a 100 in geometry). Pre-calculus and calculus are different animals. I basically taught my college calculus class, but as I went through Cal II and then Cal III, it got VERY hard. I would say if he struggles with Calculus, then maybe engineering is not going to be the right path. Many other engineering classes require calculus such as University Physics I & II, Statics, Dynamics, and many more. Even when I was working in the "real" world, I still had to use Calculus. I wouldn't give up just yet, but would talk about alternatives in-case Calculus is not for him!

[Reya]

See how he likes calc.

 

I left ME because I loathed the statics and dynamics calculations. Give me INTERESTING math, and I'm there, but there is nothing more boring than applying the dullest, most routine Newtonian mechanics over and over and over and over and....

 

Well, you get the picture. :-)

 

Physics was a lot more interesting, but no jobs that pay anything without a PhD, so I left that, too!

[nova mama]

By some miracle, I have a degree in chemical engineering, even though math was my toughest subject. I have wondered whether I should have majored in a subject that was more my "natural bent" (I enjoyed and did well in history), but I think my brain is so much better off for those challenging college years.

 

I ended up working as a chemical engineer for only a few years, but I'm still in a technical field (IT) and my engineering studies prepared me well. Best wishes!

[mooooom]

I have a 15yob who was always really slow in math, as in it took him twice as long as his brother and sister to finish an assignment (not that he got a lot wrong - it just took hours to complete). This year he is whizzing through, people used to tell me that math would just click one day, yeah right... Well I finally figured out what it was, I started letting him use a calculator. This is a child whose math facts just never clicked (we drilled for years). I got him to memorize skip counting songs and he would multiply by singing and using his fingers.

 

I just offer this up in case this could be your son's issue, or maybe there is a different specific thing that he can't do that he could be given an "aid" to help with.

[Osmosis Mom]

What about electrical engineering? I would think that's less math-intensive?

[Brenda in MA]

He & I thought he'd enjoy mechanical or aeronautical engineering but with this struggle in math, should he be changing course?

 

Not necessarily. I think the others who answered before me have given very good advice. If he's willing to persist with the math even though it doesn't come easily, he could make it through engineering. My own experience in the working world is that there are many engineering fields where one does not use math on a daily basis. I spent most of my engineering career in project management. While I had to attend design reviews and be able to understand the math that was presented, I didn't have to do laborious calculations as a part of my day to day job.

 

My son was the same way with math; he used to spend at least 2 hours per day on it. I encouraged him to stick with it because we both knew that engineering, computers, or something technical was where his interest are. He spent all his free time networking various types of computers and building gadgets. He's a freshman at an engineering school now, and so far, he is doing OK and liking it. Reading and history came more easily to him, but now in college, he's finding the subjective grading in those courses very frustrating.

 

If he does decide to stick with an engineering path, you might want to carefully consider which college to send him to. As a result of my son's troubles with math, we looked for a college with engineering where his math scores put him in the middle of the pack or better. He may have been able to get into a more competitive school, but I felt that it was more important that he be in an environment where he would be the most likely to succeed.

 

You don't mention which math curriculum you are using for Algebra 2, but I would mention that my son used Saxon through Advanced Math, and then I switched him to Chalkdust for PreCalc (which repeated a lot of Advanced Math). He did much, much better with Chalkdust due to the instruction videos by Dana Mosely and also the larger emphasis on the graphing calculator. My son was able to understand the more advanced concepts much better when he could see what the functions look like on the calculator screen.

 

On caveat, though, with the calculator is that a lot of engineering schools don't let students use calculators on exams. There was a whole discussion on this on the College Board (sub-group on this TWTM site). Even if the calculator is an aid to understanding, your son will most likely need to be able to work without one at some points.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[MyThreeSons]

He's always had the ability to see things spacially & seeing how things work even when adults couldn't figure it out.

 

There are engineering tech programs that don't require the higher level math courses, but would allow him to use the skills he does have.

 

I loved mechanical drawing, and worked my way through school as a drafter/designer. I did get my BS in Mechanical Engineering eventually, but there were lots of guys I worked with who were making good money without an engineering degree.

 

Please note that I'm not recommending he not persevere with the math, just that he realize that not everyone needs to follow that route.

[lllll]

No advice, but will toss this out there in case it proves useful to someone.

 

My dh did physics and chemistry in graduate school. Said he liked math, but it was a lot harder (or something like that). He was hired as an engineer after graduate school and has always been classified as one even though he didn't specifically major in engineering and does not have an engineering degree. He also said that in grad school, they "taught him the math as they needed it". So he took a good many of the courses that the math majors were taking along the way.

 

Fast forward 25 years or so ahead. He's still classified as an engineer. However, he tells me that the other engineers (with actual degrees in engineering) are always coming to him to get him to figure out what he considers basic math problems. He finds this a little distressing for a couple of reasons. First, he has his own work to do and it takes up valuable time to do their work. Second, he thinks the kinds of things they are asking him to do are things they should know how to do. When he was telling me this not long ago, he also told me that many of them had lousy writing skills, too. He gave me a couple of examples and I was stunned. We both began to wonder how people like this with college degrees ever even got through colllege ... esp. something like engineering.

 

I'm not sure what to surmise from all this. He's seen this across the board in the 4 different companies (and states) he's worked for over the past 25 years; so it's not centered in one area of the country or in specific colleges. The only conclusion we were able to come to is that 'education' just ain't what it used to be. :confused:

 

FWIW

Kathy

[yarrow]

for your feedback. We will continue to try to work through this and see if it gets to the point where it "clicks". For Algebra I, we used Saxon, then switched to Jacobs' Geometry and now he's using Chicago Math Advanced Algebra. He sits through a 90 minute Potters School class, tries to work through the lessons during the week but, inevitably, ends up needs my dh to work with him one-on-one to get the lessons done. He's very frustrated and has recently said "I always thought I wanted to design jets but I'm not sure I can do it if Algebra is this hard".

 

I have talked with him about drafting/architecture since he's very good at drawing but he finds it boring.

 

Thank you again for your input!

 

Karen

[LinRTX]

It is. I'm married to one and my oldest is working on his master's in EE. Lots of math.

 

Linda

[Jane in NC]

Karen,

 

I think that you have received good advice in this thread, but I would like to offer one more perspective that comes from teaching math at an engineering school. Engineering students need to have math skills, but whether those skills are intrinsic or developed depends on the student himself. I have found that those students who truly want to be engineers never let their lack of skill in math prevent them from achieving their goal. Simply put, these students must work harder than the average engineering student. Those who acknowledge this will succeed. Those who don't will blame math professors and texts for preventing their dream from coming to fruition.

 

Dare I say this boils down to maturity? This may not be a popular position, but I truly believe that those who have clear goals find ways to achieve them. They work harder which can lead to huge payoffs down the road.

 

Possibly ducking tomatoes,

Jane

[lllll]

I just asked dh, who happens to be with us today, about some of the things I had written in my first post. I don't quite understand what he's talking about, but maybe some of you will.

 

He said that the engineers can conceptualize what needs to be done, but they often don't have the skills to make it happen. I asked him what was missing and he said he wasn't sure, but it's definitely something they should have learned somewhere back there in their educations. (Anybody know what that thing is??)

 

So I guess the moral to this story is that even though the engineering major may be able to get by without taking tons of math, if he is at all able to 'get' that math, he may be more valuable to his employer ... hence, less likely to be the first out the door when downsizing/cutbacks/etc. occur. (I've seen this happen in dh's case. He's their 'troubleshooting' guy.)

 

Headin' home now.

Kathy

[lllll]

OK. Last post. Here's what dh says:

 

"They can't do the word problems. They can describe their problem in English, but cannot translate to math. They come find me then. Most of them can't do Calculus at all. If they have the formulas in hand or canned programs for exactly what they want to do, then they can get the answers either from the computer or from the simple equations."

 

And this is my last hot spot on our way home, so Adios!:)

 

Kathy

Edited October 10, 2009 by ksva

[G5052]

He's a 15-year-old. Frankly I wouldn't sweat it right now, and just focus on keeping him progressing across the board academically. Maybe engineering does a reflect a bent he has, and I wouldn't discourage him at 15 if he's leaning that way unless math was a major weakness for him. Algebra II at 15 is great even if he's struggling and may need more time to get there. When you start applying to college, I know that you have to be a little more clear on the major, but even then, the percentage of people who change majors in college after they get there is huge. And the percentage of people who graduate with one degree and follow another path in life is also significant. The goal is to get a good education in both high school and college that will let you follow whatever comes.

 

I can't count the number of scientists and engineers I've known who were late bloomers and/or didn't look like that type at all as teenagers. Several internationally-known scientists that I crossed paths when I was in scientific research myself failed algebra in high school. I was failing calculus in high school when I dropped it during my senior year, but I picked it up three years later and sailed through it through a math major and graduate studies in theoretical math and computer science. I did primarily physics-related research and didn't take physics until college because my physicist father said that high school physics without calculus was a waste of time.

 

Off my soapbox...