Am I Doing Too Much?

[krw]

In following TWTM I have ds8 do all subjects daily except for History and Science which alternate. Sometimes I feel like it's too much, but I'm new at this so I'm not really sure. Here's what our day looks like:

 

Latin: 20-30 minutes

Spelling: 15 minutes

Math: 60 minutes

Grammar: 20 minutes

Writing: 25 minutes

History/Science: 30 minutes

Reading: 30 minutes

 

And if I throw art into the mix, add on an additional 30 minutes or more

 

I also have a dd4 who I am trying to keep occupied during all of this and by the end of our school day we're all pretty spent on learning.

 

I've read others' comments before about lumping spelling, grammar and writing together and I've wondered about that. Some days for his writing when he has dictation work he also has it in his grammar lesson which seems like too much of a good thing. And some days for spelling I have him write creative sentences for his list words, but then he has to turn around and do his actual "writing" lesson. Again, going into overdrive it seems.

 

Is it necessary to do all subjects daily or would we be okay to swap things around? I am also detoxing from public school so I still worry about him "getting behind" if we don't do all of these subjects daily according to how it is mapped out in TWTM. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

krw

[Nestof3]

It looks just right to me. I am wondering, does math actually take 60 minutes a day? I haven't found math taking that long here, so I was just wondering if you were intentionally doing math for 60 minutes a day, or does one lesson happen to take that long?

 

I have 8 and 10 year old boys. Here's our day (approx times):

 

daily

handwriting/copywork: 5 minutes (combined)

spelling: 15-20 minutes each

grammar: 15-20 minutes each

writing: 10-20 minutes each

math: 20-30 minutes each

read aloud: 15-20 minutes (combined)

independent reading: 30 minutes (at least)

history: 20-30 minutes (combined)

science: 20-30 minutes (combined)

 

three days a week:

art/artist study/composer study: 1 hour total

 

** combined means they work at the same time.

Edited October 7, 2009 by nestof3

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

In following TWTM I have ds8 do all subjects daily except for History and Science which alternate. Sometimes I feel like it's too much, but I'm new at this so I'm not really sure. Here's what our day looks like:

 

Latin: 20-30 minutes

Spelling: 15 minutes

Math: 60 minutes

Grammar: 20 minutes

Writing: 25 minutes

History/Science: 30 minutes

Reading: 30 minutes

 

And if I throw art into the mix, add on an additional 30 minutes or more

 

I also have a dd4 who I am trying to keep occupied during all of this and by the end of our school day we're all pretty spent on learning.

 

I've read others' comments before about lumping spelling, grammar and writing together and I've wondered about that. Some days for his writing when he has dictation work he also has it in his grammar lesson which seems like too much of a good thing. And some days for spelling I have him write creative sentences for his list words, but then he has to turn around and do his actual "writing" lesson. Again, going into overdrive it seems.

 

Is it necessary to do all subjects daily or would we be okay to swap things around? I am also detoxing from public school so I still worry about him "getting behind" if we don't do all of these subjects daily according to how it is mapped out in TWTM. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

krw

 

I think it looks great, although it does seem like a long time for math for his age. I hope half of that is hands-on fun or that he just loves it so much he doesn't want to stop. Otherwise, I think that what you have is great. Most importantly, regarding your concern about the writing/language, how is your son doing with this schedule? Let him be your guide. :001_smile:

[Caribbean Queen]

If you want to shorten your day you could do less Math and read and write about History and Science, thus killing two birds with one stone.

[Haiku]

I think what you are doing looks perfect. It's 3 1/2 hours, which is a little more than what my seven year old second-grader does. If it's stressful for you, could you break it up so that the more intense subjects (Latin, Math, etc.)are done in the morning and the lighter stuff (History, Reading) are done in the afternoon, after a break and lunch?

 

Tara

[lulubelle]

I know what you mean with the writing overkill thing! I am doing things the WTM way and there is a lot of writing and my son is 7! He does no writing on Fridays. It also seems important to me from the different perspectives. I write his sentence for him with Spelling Workout and if there is one to write for Zaner-Blozer, because it is a lot of writing all together. I think it's important for FLL and WWE for him to write it out and see the structure of the sentence. I also have him do Explode the Code. My expectations for his writing are different for each subject. I also think you could condense his writing or shorten it in some way. You have the best perspective if you think it's too much. Especially if it's frustrating him.

[justamouse]

That looks really good, but I hear you on the burnout. The thing I've found works best with me is not the schedule per se, but where in the schedule, and where in the day I place the lesson.

 

ie: Dd is NOT a morning person so although I want to bang out Math and science, I need to let her wake up so we do those after lunch when SHE is on a real upswing and it's less trudging.

 

KWIM?

 

And, detoxing is a good thing. When I first started WTM homeschooling I threw my son (then in 7th grade) (and me) into the deep end. It was torture, I did everything out of fear of ruining him and eventually did more bad than the public school with my constant hammering. Detoxing is OK. You have just changed the whole paradigm of your family, and everyone needs time to adjust. Just keep A Slow (as in the Slow Movement) mentality. Do it, but it's not a race. Hang in there.

Edited October 7, 2009 by justamouse

[krw]

Thank you all so much for input, it is really helping me.

 

I went with the 60 minutes for math based on the suggested schedule in TWTM for 3rd graders. They say 40-60 minutes so I just went with 60 and I use a timer, although if he finishes before the 60 minutes is up I let him stop wherever he is.

 

I've moved math around in our schedule a couple of times for the same reasons as Justamouse, too many battles with trying to knock out math out first thing. So I moved it to after a break. And a lot of that 60 minutes is not hands-on. I type up exactly what he needs to do in his text and workbooks (Singapore) and am available if he needs me (especially if it is not a new concept he is working on). I review and then we correct within that hour if needed. I do mix in games like dominoes or flashcards that we do together, and math games on the computer that he enjoys. I could probably cut his math down to 30 minutes and use that other 30 minutes to incorporate history daily or use it somewhere else.

 

For his writing he is learning cursive and completes two pages out of HWT Cursive Handwriting book daily...then I alternate between Writing Strands or Igniting Your Writing to help him learn the art of writing. Some days I give him dictation, have him practice words he's learned from his cursive book or write letters to family members. I haven't done any copy work. I'm using FLL as his grammar program, could I take away WS and IYW and just let FLL be his guide for learning the art of writing? He doesn't enjoy doing the exercises in either of these programs, but if I allow him to do the exercises in the program using one of his own personal projects (he's creating a video game) it is a much more enjoyable process for both of us.:laugh:

 

Also like Justamouse, I just don't want to overdo any of this. I don't want him to feel like "I left public school for this?" I know I'm giving him far better quality than what he was getting in PS, but at the same time I want this to be an enjoyable and enriching journey and not one of drudgery.

 

Thank you, thank you all again.

 

krw

[Colleen in NS]

I'm using FLL as his grammar program, could I take away WS and IYW and just let FLL be his guide for learning the art of writing?

 

You can use the copywork/dictation and narration lessons in FLL, to guide you in writing elsewhere, such as history/science/literature reading. Just set up a regular schedule of these writing activities each week.

 

Also, are you doing these things 5 days a week? You could cut FLL down to 3 or 4 days a week. You could do science 2 days and history 2 days. You could do writing activities 4 days instead of 5. You might even be able to do math 4 days. Then, you have a 5th day open in which to complete extra fun projects, science experiments, art skills, etc..

[LisainVirginia]

That was the main thing I learned our first week. There aren't the natural breaks that come in a school day, i.e. waiting for the class to finish a worksheet if you finish early, lining up to go to art, PE, recess, lunch, group trips to the bathroom...you get the idea. I didn't think about how much more intense the learning would be at home, one-on-one, and had to build in more breaks for us, whether that's 30 min. recess or 5 min. stretch break.

[PeterPan]

I haven't looked at the 3rd grade recs in a while, but doesn't WTM break things up a bit, say with dictation some days a week and your writing program on others? That's a long time on math, but that's because you're doing lots of good components. (program plus drill plus games) You could break them into sessions. Yes, 3.5 hours a day total for your scheduled stuff is good, but that should include the art, etc. too. There's just no need to be overtaxing at this age. Don't miss where WTM overlaps things and uses content subjects like history to cover the main skills. Don't inadvertently do MORE than WTM intends, kwim? I'd rather see a kid that age read two hours a day and do two hours of academics than to do 3.5 hours of academics and only read 1/2 hour. Reading, and reading good, rich, well-written books, will do more for their writing skills, history knowledge, etc. than lots of formal lessons at this age. I'd make the lessons efficient and make more time for reading and fun stuff.

[modest-mama]

Your day sounds like our day. We work for about four hours in the morning and another one to two hours in the late afternoon. I am waiting for my younger children to get older before starting a formal art curriculum and so I purchased the 'Draw Write Now' books and he draws from there for narration illustrations. He gets art and narration done together that way.

[rafiki]

.

[fractalgal]

 

I went with the 60 minutes for math based on the suggested schedule in TWTM for 3rd graders. They say 40-60 minutes so I just went with 60 and I use a timer, although if he finishes before the 60 minutes is up I let him stop wherever he is.

 

 

 

I like the idea of allowing extra time for math. It is not rushed that way, and it allows time for questions from previous exercises and the introduction of new topics.

[Allearia]

What you are doing looks pretty good to me. There are a few tweaks you could make to reduce the length of the day. For example, alternate grammar and spelling on different days.

 

What are you using for Writing? We do Writing Tales so usually two days of writing actually involve extended writing. The other days when we are doing grammar or copywork in Writing Tales I schedule writing paragraph narrations for history two days and a narration of a book for reading the fifth day. It doesn't always work out perfectly. But those days the actual writing program takes less time then the writing is integrated with another subject.

 

We have been experimenting with doing history projects and science experiments in the afternoon and on weekends, since those are fun. Some history projects can be integrated with art--for example, we will be creating a mosaic while studying the Byzantine Empire. Art is usually Friday. We also practice piano 45 minutes a day, sometimes we can move that to the afternoon.

 

Is the 30 minutes reading something he does on his own silently or does he do it with you? 30 minutes of "fun" reading is a good afternoon activity as well.

[nd293]

We had a similar schedule, and found that it became about "ticking the boxes" after a while. We are now trying something different: We spend 2hrs a day on a particular subject: Monday is English (spelling, writing, grammar), Tuesday is History, Thursday is Science, Friday rotates Music/Logic/Art/Logic. (Wednesday is co-op.) In addition, the day starts with 15 minutes spent either on some sort of memory work, or a short logic exercise. Maths is done 4 days a week, 45min, more or less. Latin is done 2 days a week for 30 minutes, and the other 3 days have 30 min for "project work" which is a catch-all category where I can put anything that I want done or that hasn't been finished. I fold additional writing in to other subjects.

 

We have only been doing this for a couple of weeks, so it is too early to tell, but it feels promising. I will have to add in a few more short spelling slots for review and testing. We are taking a break from official cursive "lessons" as she hated them, but I get her to write something in cursive each day, even if it is just the spelling words.

[krw]

You Mamas Rock! You all have given me so much to think about and consider.

 

The goal of our day is to start at 7:30 and by noon we're completely done. I admit that most days it doesn't happen for one reason or another. We do take breaks, but I still find that I feel overwhelmed sometimes as the teacher with doing each subject daily and imagine he must be feeling the same way.

 

I tend to over analyze and I think I'm taking the guidelines in WTM way too seriously and end up making things more difficult than they need to be. I like the idea of splitting things up throughout the week without being married to the idea of having to do the same subjects each and every day with the exception of history and science...and poor art which we haven't done at all.:blush: I also like that he can still get all that he needs without having to do it daily (something from PS that I need to detox out of my system).

 

I can't remember now who suggested it, but I had already planned to go year round - just makes more sense to me.

 

I'll definitely be doing some reevaluating over the next several days. Perhaps I'll do most subjects daily but will just cut down on the actual lesson time, or perhaps I'll alternate days for certain subjects. I don't know yet, but you all have given me some great ideas to consider. Thank you!

 

krw

[nd293]

If you're going year-round, it's not too disruptive to try different schedules, and see what works. We work 4-weeks-on-1-week-off, and 4 weeks is a nice block of time to test a new schedule. No harm done if you don't like it and try something else for the next block.

[krw]

ND293 I'm kinda diggin' your year round schedule! :thumbup1: I was planning to go 3 months on one month off....but during that month "off" we'd do really light weight stuff outside of the normal lessons and schedule. With doing one week off it can truly be a week off with NOTHING planned but resting. It's a long enough break to enjoy being off but not too long to get out of the normal habits. Don't public year-round schools go something like six to nine weeks on with three weeks off?

 

And you're right, four weeks is plenty of time to test drive different schedules until something fits. Something else to consider....

 

What do you do when your family takes vacations that are longer than one week? Do you readjust or just take a lighter version of school with you?

 

Thanks for the tip!

 

krw

[Colleen in NS]

ND293 I'm kinda diggin' your year round schedule! :thumbup1: I was planning to go 3 months on one month off....but during that month "off" we'd do really light weight stuff outside of the normal lessons and schedule. With doing one week off it can truly be a week off with NOTHING planned but resting. It's a long enough break to enjoy being off but not too long to get out of the normal habits. Don't public year-round schools go something like six to nine weeks on with three weeks off?

 

And you're right, four weeks is plenty of time to test drive different schedules until something fits. Something else to consider....

 

What do you do when your family takes vacations that are longer than one week? Do you readjust or just take a lighter version of school with you?

 

Thanks for the tip!

 

krw

 

Another option if you are doing a 36 week school year: 6 weeks on, two weeks off, with 5 weeks off June/July and 3 weeks off at Christmas/New Year. I used to do this. Now I have finally morphed into more weeks "on," but they are lighter weeks than they used to be - we have a few things to do on Fridays, but there is time to go to the pool and library that day. It's something like 7 or 8 weeks "on," then a week off, with two weeks off in June/July and two weeks off in December/January. My aim is to integrate schooling with life and it's working out pretty well this year.

 

If we went on vacation for more than a week, I'd adjust somewhere, somehow.

[krw]

Oh, to Allearia, I forgot to mention this earlier but I see you're in Berkeley. I grew up in Richmond and went to high school in Berkeley.

 

This information adds zero value to our topic conversation:lol:, I've just only been away from home for a couple of years and miss it!

 

krw

[Reya]

Not at all.

[Capt_Uhura]

Nestof3 - I was curious as to how you navigate the day? You stared the topics you have combined. Do you alternate between the two boys for all others? I have a 9yr old and a 6yr old (boys) and a 2.5yr old. Sometimes I feel like a pendulum!

 

Anyone else feel free to chime in here as well....Nestof3 caught my eye b/c her kids overlap mine.

 

Capt_Uhura

[lionfamily1999]

I use a timer

I set time limits on subjects, but don't make him keep going if we've covered the matter for that day and he understands it. I think the times are just guides.

 

We do:

Devotional

MindBenders

Latin

Grammar (FLL)

Math

Greek

Spelling

Lunch

Reading (I read while he eats)

Writing (WWE)

History (MWF)

Science (MTTh)

Art (if it's not done in another subject, only once a week)

Music (daily)

 

We're done by three at the absolute latest :)

[Nestof3]

Hey there!

 

morning (during my bike ride)

We start the day with both of the boys doing handwriting/copywork (Character Italics). They use the same book, and they work at the same time. They do this in the morning while I'm riding my indoor bike.

 

Other things they do while I'm riding my bike are:

 

Nathan's Daily Grams (He never needs me for this. I check it, and he makes any corrections, but he's fine reading and working through it on his own).

 

Any math tests. If the boys have math tests, they do these while I'm on my bike. Often, I'll also assign their math lesson and just circle the problems from the day's lesson and tell them to skip those until we sit down together. It usually only takes 10 minutes to teach the lesson after that.

 

Ben's spelling CD. He uses the Calvery Spelling CD along with the student book. I give him the CD for extra practice.

 

Educational movies. Examples so far have been: Incas, Mayans, Aztecs, various Explorers, Beethoven, Van Gogh, Mammals, etc.

 

I ride for 45-60 min, so I just give them what I think will take them that amount of time or less.

 

Then, after my shower (sometimes after lunch :001_huh:)

 

I choose one of the boys to start with. We sit down, and I teach the math lesson (if it wasn't a test day). They do their problems while I take care of a chore. Then I do the math lesson with the other son.

 

This gives each of the boys a little play time while the other is working. Sometimes, they practice piano while the other does math.

 

Then, I choose the first son again and we do all of our language arts together (excluding anything that was done while on my bike). This includes: spelling, R&S grammar, Daily Grams, Writing with Ease, and poetry memorization (if we do it that week). Then, I choose the second son.

 

Finally, we gather on the sofa for science, history and our artist/composer study reading. Our read aloud is often in audio book format, and we listen to this at lunch or during a quiet time during the day. If it's a book I read, I usually do it in the evening.

 

If we have any written or hands-on work for science, history and art, we meet at the table after sofa time to complete that. Sometimes, they are able to do the written work while on the sofa. I just bring two pencils and two hardcover books to bear down on. For example, after I read two books on bats, we worked on some crossword puzzles together (as review), the boys labeled an anatomy diagram, and we worked through understanding an experiment that various scientists performed until the echolocation of bats was finally understood. I will often choose to work on worksheets together, alternating questions between the two of them. This is far more enjoyable than what I did with my eldest -- he did his worksheets by himself in his room.

 

When we studied marsupials and monotremes, I had the boys fill in little animal report forms I typed up. They filled in info as I read. For example, once they found out through the reading whether the particular marsupial we were studying had a forward, backward or no pouch, they would enter this info. When they heard me read the diet, habitat, etc., they would enter that info. I find working on these things as a group and sitting on the sofa make it all much more enjoyable.

 

SOTW mapping, our exploration lapbook and such are done at the kitchen table. I usually do most of the cutting for lapbooks while the boys are doing their math or something. They do lots of arts and crafts, and cutting is not really something I need them spending school time on.

 

Since the boys are so close in age, we do everything except lang. arts and math together. The only difference is that I do some of the writing for Ben as he younger, slower, and has a harder time spelling. For science and history, I focus on understanding and knowledge, not spelling and writing. I would rather spend our time on vocabulary like diurnal, echolocation, etc. and word meanings/roots like monotreme (one hole), marsupial (pouch), chiroptera (hand wing), etc.

 

For history, I try to have very easy picture books (which Ben helps reading aloud -- like the Step into Reading) and also some longer ones (which I usually read aloud). Nathan has been wanting to read the SOTW aloud, or we listen to it in the van. We also listen to any other audio resources we can when we're out and about (Jim Weiss, Naxos, etc).

 

I hope this helps. :D

 

PS -- I am a night owl, we get up later than most, and I ride my bike in the morning. So, we are usually finishing up around 4 or 4:30. They get play time in the morning while I drink my coffee, eat breakfast, shower, etc. and then sometimes while I'm on my bike if they finish up early.

 

Nestof3 - I was curious as to how you navigate the day? You stared the topics you have combined. Do you alternate between the two boys for all others? I have a 9yr old and a 6yr old (boys) and a 2.5yr old. Sometimes I feel like a pendulum!

 

Anyone else feel free to chime in here as well....Nestof3 caught my eye b/c her kids overlap mine.

 

Capt_Uhura

Edited October 10, 2009 by nestof3

[Capt_Uhura]

Nestof3 - THANK YOU! That was more than I hoped for! It really helps a lot. I'll re-read this and think about our day. I have the additional curve ball of a 2.5yr old DD. It seems when I have only 2 of the kids, no matter which 2, things are much more relaxed. :lol: I've been seeing what schedule falls into place and then will finalize something. I think it will help the boys to know what to expect. I find that rather than getting their work done and having 30min break time, they are stealing 5min here and 5min there which eats into the day. I think having a visual schedule will help them. I hate schedule though :lol: so I'm thinking more of blocks of time rather than subjects as I originally envisioned. SOme mornings they wake up and will blow through language arts and other mornings, they'd rather die than do it first. This is my first year Hsing both boys, my 6yr old when to public school K last year so I'm finding I need to plan more.

 

Thanks again! It was really kind of you to answer my post with so much detail. It helps to see how someone else navigates a similar sea.

 

Capt_Uhura

[Nestof3]

Congrats, and I wish you the best. I remember when I homeschooled our first. He had gone to public school through the third grade (the year I married his Dad). I have changed much in my approach, and it is much harder with two in school (the eldest is in college now), so I can imagine how much harder it is with three.

 

When I began homeschooling, I was married for just less than a year, had an 8 year old and a newborn (1999). Then, Ben came in 2001. I had to accept that I had limitations with what I could do one-on-one with two young ones.

 

You will figure out what works for you. Best of luck! :D

 

Nestof3 - THANK YOU! That was more than I hoped for! It really helps a lot. I'll re-read this and think about our day. I have the additional curve ball of a 2.5yr old DD. It seems when I have only 2 of the kids, no matter which 2, things are much more relaxed. :lol: I've been seeing what schedule falls into place and then will finalize something. I think it will help the boys to know what to expect. I find that rather than getting their work done and having 30min break time, they are stealing 5min here and 5min there which eats into the day. I think having a visual schedule will help them. I hate schedule though :lol: so I'm thinking more of blocks of time rather than subjects as I originally envisioned. SOme mornings they wake up and will blow through language arts and other mornings, they'd rather die than do it first. This is my first year Hsing both boys, my 6yr old when to public school K last year so I'm finding I need to plan more.

 

Thanks again! It was really kind of you to answer my post with so much detail. It helps to see how someone else navigates a similar sea.

 

Capt_Uhura