Help with Singapore and the whole mental math concept, please.

[lauracolumbus]

We've been Saxon users w/MUS used as a supplement. After all the rave reviews of Singapore online and in LCC, I bought a few to check it out. Plus, I feel like my kids need a lot more word problem practice.

 

I'm struggling w/the whole mental math approach. Both my kids and I are great at memorization. For me (and presumably them) it's much easier to memorize 9 + 5=14 rather than introducing an the extra step of 9+1=10+4=14.

 

Why would we add that extra step? How does it pay off in the long run?

 

Are there other aspects to this mental math approach that I'm missing?

 

Thanks so much for your help. I'm trying to decide if I want to start down the Singapore path and invest more $$.

 

Laura

[hmschooling]

Understanding that extra step at this lower level with help with the mental math of larger numbers. They start by going to the next 10 within the smaller numbers, then learn how to do it with larger numbers (like 67+44 would be easier if you mentally added 70 + 41 or 70+40+1 and as my dd does, it's 7+4 is 11 so 110+1).

 

Then they'll work on making hundreds, etc. It seems to be extra at the start, but it has completely paid off and makes more sense later.

[lauracolumbus]

Thanks. It seems like there is some of this in MUS.

 

Laura

[siloam]

I'm struggling w/the whole mental math approach. Both my kids and I are great at memorization. For me (and presumably them) it's much easier to memorize 9 + 5=14 rather than introducing an the extra step of 9+1=10+4=14.

 

Why would we add that extra step? How does it pay off in the long run?

 

Laura

 

Laura,

 

I agree with the other poster, but wanted to add. Right now it is easier for you to memorize and it takes a while to do it the Singapore way. I do remember what it was like when I was first learning it and it seemed to take forever. Now I am often the first one in the room with the answers to math problems because I do it the Singapore way.

 

Once more 20 years from now when the kids haven't been practicing their math facts they will start to forget...but the Singapore way works with such simple sets of math facts that they continue to be useful for years to come, especially with larger numbers. My older two don't have any problem doing double digit addition with carrying in their heads and they do it pretty quickly.

 

Heather

 

[lauracolumbus]

Thanks Heather. I'm hoping it won't be too hard for my ds11 and dd9 to switch over.

 

Laura

[HiddenJewel]

I found it very difficult to retrain my dd to think using mental math. I am so glad I have at least 2 that will learn to think that way from the beginning.

[Donna T.]

Thanks. It seems like there is some of this in MUS.

 

Laura

 

Yes, there is actually alot of that in MUS. Have you ever taught Alpha? Making tens is an important part of Alpha and it carries over into the other levels. Memorizing 9 + 5 without going further and being led through the thought process of making tens (and eventually doing that with larger numbers) would be equivalent to teaching a child to read with whole words (sight reading) rather than teaching them the sounds of various letter combinations (phonics). Maybe they could learn some words through sight reading but if you teach them phonics, they can figure just about any word out with sufficient practice. I think Singapore gives the child alot more practice with this concept, but MUS does cover it well.

[kalanamak]

 

I'm struggling w/the whole mental math approach. Both my kids and I are great at memorization. For me (and presumably them) it's much easier to memorize 9 + 5=14 rather than introducing an the extra step of 9+1=10+4=14.

 

 

Thanks so much for your help. I'm trying to decide if I want to start down the Singapore path and invest more $$.

 

Singapore is not that pricey, and you can get the textbooks used at curriculum fairs or Ebay.

 

I thought it all odd, too, and kiddo was not champing at the bit to hear me say "since 10=4 is 14, 9=4 must be.....?" again, but when it clicked, my goodness. He used to say "9 is the hardest" and now he says "that is too easy!!". I predict he'll be able to add columns of numbers in his head the way my father (who learned his basic math in 1915) could.

[EKS]

For me (and presumably them) it's much easier to memorize 9 + 5=14 rather than introducing an the extra step of 9+1=10+4=14.

 

Why would we add that extra step? How does it pay off in the long run?

 

Are there other aspects to this mental math approach that I'm missing?

 

 

It may seem that it is easier to memorize that extra step now as an adult. However, that extra step is actually the first step in understanding regrouping and understanding it thoroughly is fundamental. If you gloss over it by "just memorizing" that 9 + 5 = 14, then they don't get that understanding. It wasn't until my children were able to break apart numbers and put them back together for whatever purpose they needed to that I knew they truly understood what they were doing.

[lauracolumbus]

Thanks again, everyone. I have found that Singapore isn't all that cheap when you buy the texts, A&B, HIGs, student workbookes, and then IP or CWP for each one. Do you find the HIGs are worth it for every level?

 

Laura

[trisharog]

I am switching over my DS10 from Saxon math to Singapore in the next week or so(as many of you know and have graciously guided me) My son is currently doing Saxon 7/6 . The Op question made me question that if he places in Level 4 or so , will he miss all of that mental math or will they go over it in level 4? I got a lot of advice not to start in Level 5 bc so much is assumed they know at that level.

 

Thanks

Trisha

[siloam]

Thanks again, everyone. I have found that Singapore isn't all that cheap when you buy the texts, A&B, HIGs, student workbookes, and then IP or CWP for each one. Do you find the HIGs are worth it for every level?

 

Laura

 

I don't own the first two levels, simply because they weren't available. Much of time I use the answers more than anything, but they are nice to be able to fall back on. At lest two of them are non-consumable, so they will last through other kids and after that you should be able to sell them. I don't think SL has plans to update them at all (SL is the publisher of 2A-6B).

 

Heather

 

[hmschooling]

I found that we really only NEEDED the two texts and two workbooks. Once reaching 3A, the HIG is nice to have. Just be sure to use real objects with the lessons (which is what much of the HIG tells you in the lower levels) and do some math facts practice little by little along the way. If a child needs more practice with a certain concept, you could add more of it in real life or add a problem a day using that concept while they continue with the next topic. It's not a mastery curriculum and they'll come across it again later...maybe by then they'll be more ready for it and it will click better. Sometimes, my dd just needed to move on and take some time to process and then she'd have that "ah ha!" moment. We've not used any of the CWP, IP, or EP books whatsoever. I just added Calculadders for the facts practice along with fun online math facts games.

 

So, it can be rather inexpensive. If you feel the need to get the whole bit, it's pretty steep though.

[kalanamak]

Thanks again, everyone. I have found that Singapore isn't all that cheap when you buy the texts, A&B, HIGs, student workbookes, and then IP or CWP for each one. Do you find the HIGs are worth it for every level?

 

Laura

 

I think you could do with text and workbook if you feel confident enough to make up extra problems. I am gaining confidence that way. There are lots of math sites on the web for extra work. I got the HIGs used, and may not get them in future unless it is used. Mostly, I liked the hints on dice or card games to play. The further along I go, the less I feel I need, and the more "extras" we have and don't use.

[Gillian on Orcas Island]

I agree that the additional books are really optional, but I would recommend the HIG's at all levels, even though with levels 1 and 2 you are dealing with easy concepts. In my experience they add a lot, as they have hands-on demonstrations of the concepts with manipulatives, games (many of which can be done with just a regular deck of cards) and sheets of problems for drill in the appendices. I think they're very well done.

 

Before we had the HIG, Singapore felt a bit too workbook-y, but with it, it was closer to RightStart in terms of providing ways to demonstrate the lessons, but I found it to be more open and go than RightStart, which for me was too teacher-intensive. (We used RightStart for one year, level B, and the kids liked it, but I felt there was too much teacher prep with too many different little items needed for each lesson.) The HIGs suggest you get some simple manipulatives, but there's not a lot you have to buy; we have gotten a lot of use out of the linking cubes that are recommended, as well as a set of base ten blocks. White boards and dry erase markers for each kid have been helpful to make place value charts and move the manipulatives around on them when working with carrying and borrowing.

 

Early on I bought some of the extras, but I found that if I demo'd the lesson using the HIG, then we did the textbook problems together on a whiteboard, and finally the kids were set loose with the workbooks, that was more than enough.

 

I have one non-mathy kid who has had trouble with some of the logical leaps Sing Math makes, and has benefited from going over certain topics with Math Mammoth worksheets, which have lots of practice, but he also started with the series the latest after 2 yrs of public school math. My younger two, who have had Sing Math all along, are fine with just the HIG, text and workbooks.

 

I've been very pleased with the Math Mammoth blue series worksheets as a supplement, which can be be downloaded very inexpensively from CurrClick - I've gotten some on sale for about two bucks - well worth it!

[lauracolumbus]

Wow, you've all been so helpful. Thanks.

Laura

[HiddenJewel]

If we were to do Singapore again we would definitely use at least one of the extra books. There just wasn't enough practice in the text/workbook to cement the concepts for us.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I found that we really only NEEDED the two texts and two workbooks. Once reaching 3A, the HIG is nice to have. Just be sure to use real objects with the lessons (which is what much of the HIG tells you in the lower levels)

 

Do you mean manipulatives and actual objects to count or subtract? I am still learning the singapore way;).

[kalanamak]

If we were to do Singapore again we would definitely use at least one of the extra books. There just wasn't enough practice in the text/workbook to cement the concepts for us.

 

I agree, but you *can* make them up yourself.....

[kalanamak]

Do you mean manipulatives and actual objects to count or subtract? I am still learning the singapore way;).

 

I think she does. My son, however, found manipulatives to be slow and cumbersome, and he sighs as I demo it, and answers me without touching them when I ask him to do them. Since he's very interested in money, I use pennies and dimes and gold dollars sometimes, but even that palls.

 

So, don't go buy all the fancy colorful ones until you know they will be useful. Ask me how I know.:)

[lgm]

snip

 

I'm struggling w/the whole mental math approach. Both my kids and I are great at memorization. For me (and presumably them) it's much easier to memorize 9 + 5=14 rather than introducing an the extra step of 9+1=10+4=14.

 

Why would we add that extra step? How does it pay off in the long run?

 

Are there other aspects to this mental math approach that I'm missing?

snip

Laura

 

 

The extra step pays off b/c you learn to see a 'number' in many different ways and you intimately learn the basic properties - it'll be obvious when algebra comes that you already know and love the distributive, commutative and associative properties from your Singapore work.;)

[zaichiki]

Thanks again, everyone. I have found that Singapore isn't all that cheap when you buy the texts, A&B, HIGs, student workbookes, and then IP or CWP for each one. Do you find the HIGs are worth it for every level?

 

Laura

 

I bought a couple of the HIGs, but never actually used them, so I stopped buying them. (I found the Singapore method of teaching mental math etc. quite easy to understand from the textbook -- especially if you follow the thought bubbles.) I have the CWPs, but I have discovered that the word problems in the IP books are just as challenging, if not more so, than the ones in the CWP books.

 

Now I buy only the text, workbook, and IP for each level. They're about $8-9 each (US version, not CA Standards version). So... that would be about $50-60 for a year... and the textbook is reusable for the next child. So, for the next child I only spend $30-40 for the year of math.

 

I don't supplement with anything other than math games on the computer (Star Wars math, Timez Attack, Singapore Math's CD-rom games) and hands-on stuff (rulers, a scale, learning wrap-ups, base-10 blocks, and flash cards). I had most of that stuff anyway, so I don't figure it in to the curriculum cost.

 

I have been able to purchase a number of the Primary Math textbooks at half price, used by other homeschoolers. A few friends even gave me unused workbooks (child went back to school or parents used it with sheet protectors/dry-erase markers, etc.).

 

Anyway... compared to most other math programs out there, I find Singapore's Primary Math to be less expensive. It works for us, so of course I love it.

 

:)

Edited September 15, 2009 by zaichiki
Base 10 blocks! How COULD I have forgotten those?!

[HiddenJewel]

I agree, but you *can* make them up yourself.....

 

However, not with a Kindergartner, 7th and 9th grader to teach and 2yo to keep out of trouble.

[Whereneverever]

Thanks again, everyone. I have found that Singapore isn't all that cheap when you buy the texts, A&B, HIGs, student workbookes, and then IP or CWP for each one. Do you find the HIGs are worth it for every level?

 

Laura

 

Yes, the HIGs are worth it. It really helps tell you how to teach- and when and what.

[Mama2Three]

I really like the standards edition HIG for 2A. I'm not sure whether its our switch to standards (we used US edition for 1a/b) or whether there is a step up in expectations in level 2, but there were more problems in the workbook and the HIG was more helpful with "supplemental" activities to help cement concepts. We'll be using the HIGs going forward.

[kalanamak]

However, not with a Kindergartner, 7th and 9th grader to teach and 2yo to keep out of trouble.

 

Well, you could always give up sleep!

[Strawberry Queen]

As far as doing extra problems ....this is what I do. I bought the extra practice workbooks. These are easier than intensive practice, which takes the problems from the text and makes them harder.

 

Anyhow, I had dd do about 4 problems from each area we had covered each day until it was solid. I would highlight the extra problems so she'd know what to do and then it wasn't too much work all at once-compared to having 20 extra problems for review.

 

hth