Can I really homeschool through high school?

[Sue G in PA]

Here is my dilemna in a nutshell. DD12 (8th gr.) has been homeschooled since 4th gr. She went back to ps this year for a few reasons (she wanted to give it a try, my emotional health wasn't great last year, my youngers weren't getting enough of my attention, etc.). Since being back in ps, dh and I are both re-evaluating whether or not this is the best thing for her. Her classes are easy for her (with the exception of Spanish). Dh and I do not think the grading system (or lack of it!) is up to par at the school (or the other middle school for that matter). She isn't being challenged. She has expressed interest in coming back home. Socially, she has made new friends and is a fairly outgoing child. I don't worry about her socially. If we decide to bring her back home, it will be for good...meaning we hs through high school. Can I really do that? Will she miss something? Academically, btwn my dh and I, I know we are quite capable of teaching her. But, can we provide her with the opportunities that a public high school can? I'm thinking science labs in particular. Some words of advice from those who have btdt would be appreciated! Thanks!

[Orthodox6]

Loosely put, not, you cannot ". . . provide her with the opportunities that a public high school can?"

 

Many of us fall into a sort of trap, if I may express it thus, of trying to make an "apples:to:apples" comparison when, instead, we have an "apples:to:rutabagas" comparison. Outside schools and homeschools just don't equate.

 

Either environment has its own set of pluses and minuses.

 

Labs are done one way in an outside school, another way at home. Sports are done one way through schools, but other ways through local sports organizations. Music performance goes through UIL-affiliation (usually) with the outside schools, but through independent performance organizations apart from the schools. Socializing takes place everywhere !

 

Some of us "split" a child's academic coursework between homeschool and dual-credit classes at the community college, or between homeschool and a co-op.

 

One of my sons (now in college) took some of his high school coursework (Russian, for his foreign language, for example) from a private, non-family tutor. He did his science labs at one of the community colleges, through a (now defunct) program that provided "real, college-style" lab coursework, but for homeschoolers only.

 

Sometimes a homeschooled student has access to opportunities not available to students following a less flexible schedule (characteristic of ourside schools).

 

Maybe you, your dh, and your dd could hold a series of brainstorming and planning meetings among yourselves, to discuss what each of you envision as the goals for your dd's high school education (taking into account her plans and/or hopes for subsequent higher education). Sketch out various scenarios -- 100% homeschool; mix of homeschool and dual credit classes; 100% outside school (public versus private), etc. Explore the resources available to you in your community (or nearby communities) for all of these avenues. You've got some time this year for creative planning !

[HiddenJewel]

It really depends on what your goals are for your children. Homeschooling through high school provides them opportunities that cannot obtained in a classroom. However, a classroom setting also gives them opportunities that they will not have with homeschooling. You have to determine which opportunities are more important?

[mschickie]

There are always trade offs but there is no reason you can not provide a quality education at the high school level. Science labs can be done at home or if you have a homeschool co-op nearby you might be able to do them there. We have done both biology and chemistry at home with no problems. This year sd is going to do physics. Many homeschoolers in our area also take college classes starting in their jr year. In our district homeschoolers even qualify to take courses at no charge at 2 different local colleges (top ranking colleges too). Sd did not choose to do that but maybe when the time comes dd will want to do that. Sd has not missed much of anything by not going to the public school except being around the wrong crowd and we are glad she is out of that. She attends a prom every year and this year she will be walking in a graduataion ceremony. Hope that helps reassure you a little.

[Karen in CO]

I was going to saw "No" but they beat me to it. My ds graduated from home school and is now in a university in Tokyo. In 8th grade looking forward, there was no way that I would have thought we could do it. We just did what needed to be done every year. One year he went to public high school, then he came home. Later he took science and foreign languages at the community college. We did not do many of the things he would have done in ps, but he took 4 semesters of Japanese, spent more time than most would have on art, read more than most would have required, taught math to his younger sister, and did many other things he could not have done at ps.

 

It is a trade off. High school is perfectly do able, but it will not be the same results as if you had sent her ps. In the case of my ds, that is what we wanted. We could have done things differently, and we didn't do it perfectly, but we are happy with the time we spent together and wouldn't have traded that for the ps results. However, there are no guarantees either way, and neither way is easy.

[Chris in VA]

I have some regrets about homeschooling high school, but they are less about the setting and more about my own teaching and the curriculum I used. I should have provided my ds20 with more writing experience/instruction, better math, and foreign language thru a tutor (who could have done what I failed to do). We should have worked on his Aspie-like issues, and I should have insisted he come to family counseling appts with us as we struggled with ds17.

 

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

 

You do what you can.

 

I think he would have gotten lost at high school, I really do.

 

PP's have made great points about not comparing high school at a bm school to homeschool.

 

One question--why do you feel it's all or nothing in that you couldn't, say, school at home for 9th and 10th and then let her go to high school for 11th and 12th?

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. Lots to think about. Chris, my concern with bringing her home now and then sending her back later is that she'll be remembered as the girl who gave ps a try for a month and couldn't hack it so she ran back home to mommy. Silly, I know. And that's not the reason we would pull her out. She CAN hack it...very well so. My dh and I think we can give her a better education at home...one that will better prepare her for the REAL world and one that can be tailored to her specific "bents" and interests. There really isn't a good reason she couldn't go back in 11th or even 12th. Another issue is this: She is a "young" 8th grader...only 12 when most of her peers are 13 going on 14. She started school early and back then it was the right decision b/c she was ready, socially and academically. But now, I can see areas where she is still very much a 12yo 7th grader and NOT an 8th grader (writing for instance and socially as well). One of the reasons I want to pull her is to give her that "extra" year if she needs it. I don't know how that would work with the district and paperwork b/c she is on record as being in 8th gr. I suppose we could "hold her back" and then if she ever re-entered ps for high school, we could have her tested to see where she is academically. Anyway, so much to think and pray about. Chris...I've been praying for you and hope you are doing better.

[gingersmom]

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. Lots to think about. Chris, my concern with bringing her home now and then sending her back later is that she'll be remembered as the girl who gave ps a try for a month and couldn't hack it so she ran back home to mommy. Silly, I know. And that's not the reason we would pull her out. She CAN hack it...very well so. My dh and I think we can give her a better education at home...one that will better prepare her for the REAL world and one that can be tailored to her specific "bents" and interests. There really isn't a good reason she couldn't go back in 11th or even 12th. Another issue is this: She is a "young" 8th grader...only 12 when most of her peers are 13 going on 14. She started school early and back then it was the right decision b/c she was ready, socially and academically. But now, I can see areas where she is still very much a 12yo 7th grader and NOT an 8th grader (writing for instance and socially as well). One of the reasons I want to pull her is to give her that "extra" year if she needs it. I don't know how that would work with the district and paperwork b/c she is on record as being in 8th gr. I suppose we could "hold her back" and then if she ever re-entered ps for high school, we could have her tested to see where she is academically. Anyway, so much to think and pray about. Chris...I've been praying for you and hope you are doing better.

 

I have a "young" 8th grader as well. She will 13 in November. My daughter sounds a lot like your daughter.

 

This is my daughters first year homeschooling and I tell her she is in grade 7/8. My daughter definitely does not have the maturity of an 8th grader (her friends at public school are all 13 turning 14).

 

She will definitely not be ready for high school level work in one year. Thus why I call her 7/8th grade. I want her to spend an extra year before starting high school.

 

We started homeschooling in June and she has already come around to my way of thinking. That an extra year is going to benefit her not just academically but socially, emotionally, etc.

[Alyce]

I've schooled on dd all the way through high school and am almost finished with ds. He's a senior this year. It's very doable. Do they miss anything? I don't believe they do academically. In fact, when dd got to college she found herself much better prepared academically and even socially. We didn't do the same courses as the PS but we did do the basics and then we were able to do the things that interested her for electives. She did miss out on some things socially. The prom is the first thing that comes to mind, the yearbook another. But we worked with that. My Dd got graduation announcements that were every bit as nice as her PS counterparts. We bought her a class ring in her Senior year and she graduated with a cap and gown through our state homeschool organization. At the beginning of each year I gave my children the option of going to PS but they said no especially considering the reputation of the high school they'd be attending. While I was doing it I had many doubts. That's normal even though we shouldn't each one of us will find ourselves comparing our child to PS children. Now that one is through I've been able to look backward and have no regret now. I know she's better prepared than her counterparts and I know it's because of what she was able to learn with me versus what she would have learned at PS which wouldn't have been much. You can do this too.

[Moni]

meaning we hs through high school. Can I really do that?!

 

It kind of depends on what your goals are and how you define "homeschooling through high school."

 

There are likely ways to define/plan it so that it will be nowhere near possible, and on the other side of the spectrum, you can pretty much do anything (or nothing) and call it "homeschooling through high school."

 

There is always the fall-back of doing "what you can, when you can" and calling it done.

 

So, sure, maybe. Then again, maybe not. ;)

 

:seeya:

[Orthodox6]

Chris, some of us were discussing this last week, in a thread about an Oregon family's disastrous experience with sending a child to public high school, following one year (9th) of high school at home.

 

In many, many school districts, high school is "all or nothing" because, legally, every school district calls the shots on how it will, or will not, accept the previously-completed high school work of any transfer student applicant. Entering from homeschool makes one a transfer student. A student may be allowed to enter if he takes district-chosen and district-administered exams on all the high school subjects and scores at a certain level or above. A student may be denied all credits, no matter what the circumstances, and have to begin anew entirely. The deck is rigged against the homeschooling student. A family easily may decide that the hoops-and-barrels are too burdensome to care about making the attempted transfer.

 

We seriously considered sending our eldest to the nearby public high school. A few days before we would have gone there to check things out, a student brought in a gun and held hostage his geography class. (The teacher was pregnant with twins.) The incident squashed our interest, even though we already had done the research to know that high school, in our district, is an "all-or-nothing" unless the student takes many exams and scores very high.

 

One question--why do you feel it's all or nothing in that you couldn't, say, school at home for 9th and 10th and then let her go to high school for 11th and 12th?

[Piano&ViolinMom]

In many, many school districts, high school is "all or nothing" ...... high school, in our district, is an "all-or-nothing" unless the student takes many exams and scores very high.

All-or-Nothing, in your district, does it also apply to student who has outside verifiable grades/test scores?

[Piano&ViolinMom]

She is a "young" 8th grader...only 12 when most of her peers are 13 going on 14........ One of the reasons I want to pull her is to give her that "extra" year if she needs it. I don't know how that would work with the district and paperwork b/c she is on record as being in 8th gr. I suppose we could "hold her back"

Sue, are you from York County? Well, I think you are right to suppose to be able to hold your dd back if necessary in PA. I do not see any reason why can't.

[Orthodox6]

I speak of homeschoolers, only. Although they would be evaluated as transfer students, the double standard applies a different set of evaluation rules to transfer students from a private school.

 

The test scores I mentioned are for subject-specific exams from the public school. For example, no homeschool credit for world history would be accepted unless the school gave my child a comprehensive exam covering world history. Who creates those tests, I don't know.

 

I'm not sure that I understand what you are referencing. Do you mean grades assigned from an "umbrella school" such as Seton or Laurel Springs ? I don't know how those would be assessed.

 

As I said, we read up only on the stated district information for homeschoolers, and it did not specify "finer points" such as what I think you may be asking about. (Your question sure is a good one, too !)

 

 

 

All-or-Nothing, in your district, does it also apply to student who has outside verifiable grades/test scores?

[Piano&ViolinMom]

I'm not sure that I understand what you are referencing. Do you mean grades assigned from an "umbrella school" such as Seton or Laurel Springs ?

I mean what if homeschooler has official test scores like CLEP/AP/SAT Subject tests? If your district accept homeschool credits because of having those scores, then I wonder if you could try taking tests.

[Orthodox6]

Students generally take those tests during their 12th grade year, which is pretty far down the turnpike. But I'm so old a bird, I'm speaking from my high school years. I took the subject placement tests during my senior year. Do students rush ahead these days ? (would be glad to know this info, thinking of my dd's school planning)

 

At any rate, I don't know the answer to that question.

 

I mean what if homeschooler has official test scores like CLEP/AP/SAT Subject tests? If your district accept homeschool credits because of having those scores, then I wonder if you could try taking tests.

[gingersmom]

All-or-Nothing, in your district, does it also apply to student who has outside verifiable grades/test scores?

 

All these posts got me thinking so I went to my town's board of ed website.

 

They do not care if you have grades from an outside "school". You are required to take the same standarized tests that is given at whatever grade level you are entering and then the school will make the determination of what grade to place you in.

[creekland]

There really isn't a good reason she couldn't go back in 11th or even 12th.

 

I'm going to 2nd what was said a little bit above. In my district in PA it is a blanket all or nothing. If my son (now a senior) wanted to return to our ps he'd have to do it as a 9th grader - EVEN though he has high scores on the SAT and several colleges competing for his attention. I asked (out of curiosity, not out of desire for him to return). They will not even offer him the option of taking department tests (from the school itself) to test out of classes. The only way they'll take transfers is from another certified school with a certification recognized by the state (some cyber schools fit this).

 

That said, I had mine in ps until the oldest finished 8th grade - then pulled them out for hs. I work in our public hs. I see what goes on there... For our school, the science labs are a joke...definitely no reason to keep them in for that. Math skills aren't making target with the PSSA - nor is reading. The fault isn't so much the teachers as the system. I find the teachers mostly quite knowledgeable - and I find them having to deal with discipline, altered schedules, apathetic kids (even at a high level), curriculum that doesn't get covered - due to the schedules, etc to where I knew we could do better at home. My son has the 2nd highest SAT in his grade... MAYBE he could have gotten it even staying in school, but he'll freely tell you he prefers homeschooling.

 

There are some negatives... we can't do a group gym class and neither my hubby nor I are tops in English (instruction). However, we've opted to have that supervised last year by a nearby English professor from a local college and this year - his senior year - he's taking a cc English course.

 

For some people prom, class ring, and the graduation ceremony are big issues. None of my boys care about such things... probably inherited.

 

Our school allows homeschooled kids to participate on the sports teams, etc, and my oldest two take advantage of that via Chess. My oldest has been their top player for the past two years...

 

I have no regrets pulling them out for hs. Mine are simply getting a better education than their peers. If I lived in a different district perhaps my view would be different. I know having switched to the flexibility of hs, I certainly prefer that, but overall, what I want for my boys is a good education.

[creekland]

All these posts got me thinking so I went to my town's board of ed website.

 

They do not care if you have grades from an outside "school". You are required to take the same standarized tests that is given at whatever grade level you are entering and then the school will make the determination of what grade to place you in.

 

Ok... ignore half of the above. Your district is different than mine. :001_smile:

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Our school allows homeschooled kids to participate on the sports teams, etc, and my oldest two take advantage of that via Chess. My oldest has been their top player for the past two years...

Like your kids, my son also was in ps until finishing 8th. In time for starting his high school year, we took him out of school. I can not sign him up in even waiting list of clubs like chess/German as they are never willing to talk except saying someone will contact us. I wonder what was your experience when you placed kids in school club.

[mcconnellboys]

Well, I have a son finishing up at a private school now. He's a senior this year and went back his sophomore year. I also thought that perhaps the science labs would be beneficial to him; that math teachers would be better, etc.

 

He had actually already done a biology survey course with me that did not include extensive lab work, just some very general dissection work with a small group and a few other things. I didn't know and was never told that biology is no longer considered a lab science at many schools and he really did no lab work all year in that course.... He did really like his instructor and I was hopeful that he got something out of the course, however....

 

There was some greater level of lab work for chemistry, last year, but his first semester instructor was so scattered she kept losing peoples' homework/labs, etc. and then they'd have to make those up at the end of the semester - when they needed to be studying for finals - because she didn't discover things missing until then. I saw to it that he was moved for second semester. The second semester instructor was just plain crazy, I guess, and ended up getting removed before finals (as in fired) for making inappropriate comments to various students, both during and after school hours. That meant they had no one to do reviews with them in preparation for finals. Great.

 

I was told that my son "probably wouldn't qualify" for honors level physics (he does), so I allowed him to enter a regular course this year. They watch Myth Busters every day. They do go to the lab and there's a small knot of them who try to do their lab work - while most of the rest whoop and holler, swinging their shirts over their heads, and making farting noises. Hooray for science.

 

SO, do I think you can do better than this insofar as the lab equipment you might be able to have at your disposal? Probably not. But do I think that you can make much better use of your science time than this, with your daughter picking up much more info about science even from reading about it than actually doing it? Yes, I do.

 

Don't be blinded by stuff. Many, many schools have loads of stuff at their disposal. How they utilize that stuff is often quite a crying shame - if it gets used at all. I know that the spotless, new chemistry lab at my own high school sat empty all the time, as the chemistry teacher there refused to teach, much less do labs with anyone.... It was probably like new until he finally retired....

[creekland]

Like your kids, my son also was in ps until finishing 8th. In time for starting his high school year, we took him out of school. I can not sign him up in even waiting list of clubs like chess/German as they are never willing to talk except saying someone will contact us. I wonder what was your experience when you placed kids in school club.

 

Our kids can NOT participate in clubs as they meet during the school day. We're not allowed to participate in anything that meets during the day - only after school and weekend programs (like sports). Since the Chess Team meets for practice and games after school, my boys can join along. They couldn't before PA passed the state law saying they could... our district resisted till the end.

 

Since I work at the school, I know the team coach and he lets me know when they are starting practice, etc, so I can tell my son the info. The school certainly doesn't go out of their way to notify anyone (homeschooling), but the coach loves having my boys there. It helps that they play well and are an asset I suspect, but to be honest, the coach loves chess, so maybe not. My oldest is tops on his team and was 4th in the region last year. He's hoping to be totally on top this year.

[creekland]

Well, I have a son finishing up at a private school now. He's a senior this year and went back his sophomore year. I also thought that perhaps the science labs would be beneficial to him; that math teachers would be better, etc.

 

He had actually already done a biology survey course with me that did not include extensive lab work, just some very general dissection work with a small group and a few other things. I didn't know and was never told that biology is no longer considered a lab science at many schools and he really did no lab work all year in that course.... He did really like his instructor and I was hopeful that he got something out of the course, however....

 

There was some greater level of lab work for chemistry, last year, but his first semester instructor was so scattered she kept losing peoples' homework/labs, etc. and then they'd have to make those up at the end of the semester - when they needed to be studying for finals - because she didn't discover things missing until then. I saw to it that he was moved for second semester. The second semester instructor was just plain crazy, I guess, and ended up getting removed before finals (as in fired) for making inappropriate comments to various students, both during and after school hours. That meant they had no one to do reviews with them in preparation for finals. Great.

 

I was told that my son "probably wouldn't qualify" for honors level physics (he does), so I allowed him to enter a regular course this year. They watch Myth Busters every day. They do go to the lab and there's a small knot of them who try to do their lab work - while most of the rest whoop and holler, swinging their shirts over their heads, and making farting noises. Hooray for science.

 

SO, do I think you can do better than this insofar as the lab equipment you might be able to have at your disposal? Probably not. But do I think that you can make much better use of your science time than this, with your daughter picking up much more info about science even from reading about it than actually doing it? Yes, I do.

 

Don't be blinded by stuff. Many, many schools have loads of stuff at their disposal. How they utilize that stuff is often quite a crying shame - if it gets used at all. I know that the spotless, new chemistry lab at my own high school sat empty all the time, as the chemistry teacher there refused to teach, much less do labs with anyone.... It was probably like new until he finally retired....

 

Both yours and your son's experience in labs is eerily similar to what I see happening in the majority of our school's labs... For most classes, even if they do the labs, the kids can seldom explain what they did (outside of the basic steps) or what they learned from it.

 

We literally have had students finish their years at or near the top of their class (having had top courses) - then take entrance exams for colleges and be placed in remedial courses. It's sad - AND why I pulled mine out for high school. Mine might have been ok staying in (no social problems or other issues), but I KNOW they are ok staying home and learning. I've seen too many of their peers succumb to peer pressure and drop the learning aspect of school. They can too easily lose the joy of learning and learn to do as little as possible to get by. Then too - those like your son who still want to learn and try to keep on task have difficulty doing so as they and the teacher have to cope with the rest of them.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

My oldest is tops on his team and was 4th in the region last year. He's hoping to be totally on top this year.

Being the top chess player is not a problem to my son. Indeed he had been the top while in ps until 8th and advanced to high school team, there he was the top too. My problem with ps now is that they do not let me know contact person but saying someone would contact me. Well, they don't. Just curious how hs family in this forum are handling communication with ps when they are not exactly helpful for hs family.

[creekland]

Being the top chess player is not a problem to my son. Indeed he had been the top while in ps until 8th and advanced to high school team, there he was the top too. My problem with ps now is that they do not let me know contact person but saying someone would contact me. Well, they don't. Just curious how hs family in this forum are handling communication with ps when they are not exactly helpful for hs family.

 

Do you know if yours has a year-round club they'll let him join or do they have a separate team? If it's solely the team (as with our school), the season doesn't start till Nov/Dec (I forget which). It's a winter sport. If it's a year-round club I think our school is doing selections soon. Do you know anyone else involved that you can check with (peer, etc)? I doubt the school will be helpful. You'll need to know and be pesky when the time is right to get the stone to move. If you're pesky when the time isn't right you'll just annoy them... It's sad that they are so defensive (?), but nonetheless, true in many cases.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

I doubt the school will be helpful. You'll need to know and be pesky when the time is right to get the stone to move. If you're pesky when the time isn't right you'll just annoy them...

You are exactly right. I have been so patient but still nothing has been done. Quite confused why it has to be this way.