Tired of being asked by other moms to be dishonest re: Paypal

[Peek a Boo]

How in the world was it supposed to continue as a free service? What is the revenue stream for that?

 

you might want to read the thread.

 

eta: posts #60 and #66 spell it out.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Peek a Boo

[Peek a Boo]

But, it does give me another idea - why doesn't someone else set up a PayPal type service that is free for homeschooling curriculum swaps?

 

 

NOW you're talkin' !!!!

[Tea Time]

Probably because we little guys (read: non-businesses) got the service for free for years, and now, all of the sudden, they are treating us, too, as profit-making businesses making the big bank. Plus, you know how we American's are with hangin' on to our free-doms! ;):lol:

 

I'm OK with the Paypal fees now. At first I was ticked because Paypal did not inform me of the change. I found out on my own when I kept getting charged. :confused: But, it's no biggie to me now. I think the hoopla will die down after a while and we will all accept the change. :001_smile:

 

That is fine, but don't miss something important (yep, I'm a bit jaded):

 

This is how it works. Someone has a great idea for a convenience that people will like. But they tend to like their money, too. So, you dole out the "convenience" for a while for free, and guess what, people get "hooked." They started wanting that little bit of "ease." That fix starts being "necessary."

 

Now, these guys are not dumb. Most of them are pretty aware how well this strategy works for, say, the tobacco industry? The drug industry? Well, shoot, this ain't like that, it sure isn't illegal, you can decide for yourself if you think it is immoral... but... the theory applies.

 

Give it free for a while until a dependency is set up, then start charging. What a smart investment that turns out to be! Same difference for lots of other things. Take big discount industries... they ride into a community, build nice, new shopping centers with great conveniences and a nice atmosphere, create a dependency on cheap products, drive out smaller businesses. But it doesn't stop there. That is just the beginning. It is the investment to set into place a monopoly so that the real profits can begin. Then you can ratchet up the prices and ratchet down the service and convenience. There are other industries, too. Cell phones (remember when they couldn't give them away fast enough?), cable TV (free for the first 6 months), on and on it goes.

 

It is legal; it is even smart. But let's not be fooled by it, that's all. Let's be sure we are the ones deciding what to get hooked on. Let's be willing to say enough to some things before there are no other choices.

 

It is very important to remember that most laws are not about ethics or morality but rather about money, power, and control. It is helpful if you have a large population that is committed to morality and ethics, however, so you can be assured they will comply with your laws. But you also want them to be a bit less than totally committed to integrity, because you want them to want the convenience or money saving so that they do not do things differently and bypass your system all together because they see through it (like those subversive homeschoolers). Being really, really ethical is hard work and often isn’t very lucrative.

 

Fortunately, we have public education to “socialize†people perfectly for this system to work or else it might never have been so successful. They are the perfect consumers. Just ethical enough to follow rules, not so ethical they will overthrow insane ones.

 

Oh, and if you can get those pesky Christians to in fight in the process, well, that is just so much icing on the cake!

 

Brilliant.

[Renee in NC]

Renee, does the second set of fees come into play when a buyer uses a credit card? I don't have a Premier account. I accepted a credit card payment after the new rules went into affect, thinking since I was paying the 2.9% +0.30, it wasn't an issue. It was. There was a second fee which I assumed was tied to the credit card. This is the only time as a seller that I have seen the second fee, but again, that's on a personal account.

 

I don't know. I have a Premier Account, received 3 payments in August, and was charged 2.9% + 0.30 for each one. There was no second fee. I am trying to find it in the User Agreement so I know when it is charged and how much it is. I cannot find anything on the website or in the user agreement about a second fee - just that all non-personal transactions will incur fees, not just credit card transactions. If anyone knows where to find it, please let me know.

[Renee in NC]

you might want to read the thread.

 

eta: posts #60 and #66 spell it out.

 

I have read the thread and just went and re-read those posts and my question stands. In the past, when returns on investment were high, that business model might have made sense. Now it doesn't (returns are much lower now.)

 

It doesn't bother me to pay $0.74 to receive $15, but that is easy since my fees haven't gone up. I have had a premier account for years so that I could accept credit card payments through ebay and I've been paying fees since then.

[Tree House Academy]

Just a note here...*singing* this is the thread that never ends...it will go on and on my friends....*

 

Okay - now to the point. I have a premier account and my fees WERE higher, though I have no idea how they were calculated. I just know that they were more than I was used to paying. Also, when you choose "purchase" now both seller AND buyer have a fee to pay, which is part of the new rules.

[HiddenJewel]

Someone asked me to click PERSONAL and it charged ME to send money - I was not happy but I really needed the item - I just assumed that she was trying to get out of being charged and reversing the charges to me. THAT bugged me :glare:

 

I have never heard of being charged to send money and I have done both purchase and personal under the new rules.

[coffeefreak]

Just a note here...*singing* this is the thread that never ends...it will go on and on my friends....*

 

 

Are you singing with the Lambchop puppet on your hands? I love it when Lambchop sings that song. :lol:

[srainbow]

Well, I feel a little bit guilty now because someone asked me to buy something on personal rather than purchase and my insticnt was to think "I don't think that's right" but I did it anyway. I do think honesty and integrity can be easily eroded away when we do something a little dishonest for some gain. In this case i just wanted the books I was buying at the price and convenience and was willing to ignore my thought. Still learning, far from perfect.

[Renee in NC]

Just a note here...*singing* this is the thread that never ends...it will go on and on my friends....*

 

Okay - now to the point. I have a premier account and my fees WERE higher, though I have no idea how they were calculated. I just know that they were more than I was used to paying. Also, when you choose "purchase" now both seller AND buyer have a fee to pay, which is part of the new rules.

 

That isn't what the fee structure says and I have made several payments recently and not had to pay fees (and paid as purchase, not personal.)

 

I wonder why your fees were higher and not mine? They were not sent as "Personal" as best I can tell because the PayPal Protection was in place (marked eligible.)

 

I've read the User Agreement and can't find these extra fees, which is frustrating because if they are there but not spelled out, how am to know when they will be assessed?

[lovetobehome]

This is the second time I have called paypal and specifically asked this question. PLEASE, ladies, read this.

I described our forum, and our situation: homeschooling moms, buying and selling used curriculum. Getting rid of our excess, buying new stuff to try. BOTH paypal reps told me we can CERTAINLY use PERSONAL/NO FEE paypal, even though we have not 'met' each other in person. THE EXCEPTION IS IF WE ARE USING A SITE THAT HAS A PAYPAL BUTTON ON IT TO MAKE PAYMENTS. So, for example, ebay has a button to make a paypal payment. You can never use personal/no fee paypal on that site, or on any other site that has a direct paypal link.

I told him some people worried that this might be unethical (if we ask for a PERSONAL payment from someone on the board). He said absolutely not.

WE DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FEES. WE DO NOT HAVE TO FEEL AS IF WE ARE BEING UNETHICAL. This is paypal's own policy, according to both reps I have talked to, on separate occasions.

If someone wants to pay fees, go right ahead, but here they are telling us we do not need to, should not, and can keep going right on using FREE PAYPAL.

Questions? Call paypal and ask yourself! We don't need to attack each other!

[LizzyBee]

This is the second time I have called paypal and specifically asked this question. PLEASE, ladies, read this.

I described our forum, and our situation: homeschooling moms, buying and selling used curriculum. Getting rid of our excess, buying new stuff to try. BOTH paypal reps told me we can CERTAINLY use PERSONAL/NO FEE paypal, even though we have not 'met' each other in person. THE EXCEPTION IS IF WE ARE USING A SITE THAT HAS A PAYPAL BUTTON ON IT TO MAKE PAYMENTS. So, for example, ebay has a button to make a paypal payment. You can never use personal/no fee paypal on that site, or on any other site that has a direct paypal link.

I told him some people worried that this might be unethical (if we ask for a PERSONAL payment from someone on the board). He said absolutely not.

WE DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FEES. WE DO NOT HAVE TO FEEL AS IF WE ARE BEING UNETHICAL. This is paypal's own policy, according to both reps I have talked to, on separate occasions.

If someone wants to pay fees, go right ahead, but here they are telling us we do not need to, should not, and can keep going right on using FREE PAYPAL.

Questions? Call paypal and ask yourself! We don't need to attack each other!

 

Thank you for following up on this.

[Tree House Academy]

This is the second time I have called paypal and specifically asked this question. PLEASE, ladies, read this.

I described our forum, and our situation: homeschooling moms, buying and selling used curriculum. Getting rid of our excess, buying new stuff to try. BOTH paypal reps told me we can CERTAINLY use PERSONAL/NO FEE paypal, even though we have not 'met' each other in person. THE EXCEPTION IS IF WE ARE USING A SITE THAT HAS A PAYPAL BUTTON ON IT TO MAKE PAYMENTS. So, for example, ebay has a button to make a paypal payment. You can never use personal/no fee paypal on that site, or on any other site that has a direct paypal link.

I told him some people worried that this might be unethical (if we ask for a PERSONAL payment from someone on the board). He said absolutely not.

WE DO NOT HAVE TO PAY FEES. WE DO NOT HAVE TO FEEL AS IF WE ARE BEING UNETHICAL. This is paypal's own policy, according to both reps I have talked to, on separate occasions.

If someone wants to pay fees, go right ahead, but here they are telling us we do not need to, should not, and can keep going right on using FREE PAYPAL.

Questions? Call paypal and ask yourself! We don't need to attack each other!

 

 

Awesome! This is how I felt about the rule all along...that it just did not apply to the kind of "selling" we do here! Thank you so much for this. You may want to post this as a new, seperate thread so everyone will see. This thread has become quite taboo for most. ;)

[lovetobehome]

Good idea, Tree House Academy!

Please see these threads for more info on NO FEE PAYPAL

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126154

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126155

[Peek a Boo]

I have read the thread and just went and re-read those posts and my question stands. In the past, when returns on investment were high, that business model might have made sense. Now it doesn't (returns are much lower now.)

 

 

the economy dips and rises all the time. I wouldn't assume that PayPal has only one way to invest. There are plenty of people and companies still making money on investments, even in this economy. ;)

[Apiphobic]

Sorry to resurrect the thread but I think this post was relevant to the conversation.

And, apologies, I have not read all the posts in this particular thread.

 

PLEASE BE ADVISED--Paypal says we CAN use personal/no fee PP on this site!

 

ETA: I see this has already been posted. OOPS!!! :blush:

Edited October 6, 2009 by Apiphobic
OOPS!!!

[Pink Fairy]

Now you've done it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:D

[Ibbygirl]

Now you've done it!

 

:D

 

:lol::lol::lol: Come on ladies, start chatting quick so we can bury this thread again!! :D Come on, What's for dinner tonight??

 

Book rec's for a 6 year old who reads at college level???

 

Cleavage?? anyone?? ;) :D :lol:

[coffeefreak]

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!:willy_nilly:

[Kelly in IL]

Someone else has probably already said this, but I have read several earlier posts over the past few weeks. These explicitly explained that after talking with Paypal reps and asking very specifically about being able to use "personal" for payments of used curriculum, they were told it was perfectly okay to do. So I have been telling people how to do it under the impression that it is completely okay. I would never ask people to do anything dishonest, and since I was adding the Paypal fee to my price if someone wanted to pay that way, it wasn't benefitting me, it was benefitting the buyer not to pay the fee.

 

Since there have been so many people who have talked to Paypal and been told it was okay, I would give sellers the benefit of the doubt and assume they were doing it thinking it was okay instead of assuming they were trying to be dishonest. I've been buying and selling things on web sites like this for years and have found most homeschoolers to be very honest and good! :D