asta Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 We're a bit late in finalizing 10th grade... I'm trying to figure out on which days I should put which subjects, and how much time I should allot to each. My gut instinct is the following: English/Writing: M,W,F, 60 minutes History: M,W,F, 60 minutes Math: M-F, 60 minutes German: M-F, 45 minutes Chemistry: T (lecture), TH (lab), 90 min each Theology: T, TH, 60 minutes PE: W, 60 minutes Music: TH, 120 minutes We will be using Lit Lessons from Lord of the Rings along with IEW, Kolbe Medieval History, Systematic Math Alg 2, Goethe Institut German, a Chem combo platter (Teaching co., Mr. Guch's Complete Idiot's Guide to Chemistry + labs from his website, and a college level Chem text w/ online component), Didache's "Intro to Catholicism", Martial arts, and Bagpipe band. Somewhere in there has to be pipe practice... It just all seems like so MUCH! How do other people divvy things up? a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The way I add it up, there is at most 5 hours (give or take) per day, usually less. Do you consider that a lot? Lawana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I normally expect about 1 hour per subject per day. SO for most subjects, that is 5 hours a week. Now I do courses mostly by content so I am not counting hours but it seems like for most courses my children end up doing at least 5 hours per week. Some course are not done in a tradional school year and so they don't add up to that but that is where I start with. (My dd will have a book to read for government and some research to do but she has already done lots of work in the previous year that I am applying to the government credit). In other classes, like English, I don't care whether she reads slowly or quickly, whether she writes slowly or quickly, I have my requirements and she does them. WHen she is done, her credit is given. I estimate the work as about 5 hours a week but she often works longer as did my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barb B Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Ds in 11th now starts about 8:20am and works till 2:30. But that is because it is just our 2nd week of school. Soon it will be 8:30 to about 3:30 of 4:00. That doesn't include our family bible and prayer time that occurs befor 8:20 or music (he takes guitar and I consider that not part of the school day). His main subjects are: Catechism, spanish, saxon adv math (finishing this up this semester), honors physics, U.S. history, 11th english, and SAT/ACT prep. The only time this takes 5 hours is in the beginining of the school year, I really don't see how to do it for less the 6 hours once school gets going. For the 6 main subjects I expect an average of 45 min. per subject. SAT prep actually is about that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't figure things such as time. He takes as long as he does. If it's 15 minutes or 3 hours, it is, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 We're a bit late in finalizing 10th grade... I'm trying to figure out on which days I should put which subjects, and how much time I should allot to each. My gut instinct is the following: English/Writing: M,W,F, 60 minutes History: M,W,F, 60 minutes Math: M-F, 60 minutes German: M-F, 45 minutes Chemistry: T (lecture), TH (lab), 90 min each Theology: T, TH, 60 minutes PE: W, 60 minutes Music: TH, 120 minutes We will be using Lit Lessons from Lord of the Rings along with IEW, Kolbe Medieval History, Systematic Math Alg 2, Goethe Institut German, a Chem combo platter (Teaching co., Mr. Guch's Complete Idiot's Guide to Chemistry + labs from his website, and a college level Chem text w/ online component), Didache's "Intro to Catholicism", Martial arts, and Bagpipe band. Somewhere in there has to be pipe practice... It just all seems like so MUCH! How do other people divvy things up? a My high schoolers work approx. 1 hr/day/liberal arts subject and 1 1/2 hrs/day/math and science. Their days are rarely shorter than 7 hrs of academics and many days as long as 9......5 days/week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 We're a bit late in finalizing 10th grade... I'm trying to figure out on which days I should put which subjects, and how much time I should allot to each. My gut instinct is the following: English/Writing: M,W,F, 60 minutes History: M,W,F, 60 minutes Math: M-F, 60 minutes German: M-F, 45 minutes Chemistry: T (lecture), TH (lab), 90 min each Theology: T, TH, 60 minutes PE: W, 60 minutes Music: TH, 120 minutes We will be using Lit Lessons from Lord of the Rings along with IEW, Kolbe Medieval History, Systematic Math Alg 2, Goethe Institut German, a Chem combo platter (Teaching co., Mr. Guch's Complete Idiot's Guide to Chemistry + labs from his website, and a college level Chem text w/ online component), Didache's "Intro to Catholicism", Martial arts, and Bagpipe band. Somewhere in there has to be pipe practice... It just all seems like so MUCH! How do other people divvy things up? a How many credits are you hoping to get for each subject? I guess it depends on how many credits you are hoping for. If you expect each of those to be worth a full credit at the end of the year, then the scheduling looks a bit light to me. 8 credits should be about 8 hours a day of academics, or 40 hours . Unless I added it up wrong, this less than 25 hours. Several of those days are less than 4 hours a day. Even if you allow a 45 minutes of academics for each hour clocked, that is still 30 hours of academics weekly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'm assuming the following: LotR will be discussion/writing time (will always go long), and reading will be done at night. Math is a video + worksheets. Sometimes the concept comes easily, sometimes not. History - I really have no clue what will happen there, the curriculum hasn't arrived yet - but I do think that it will be discussion/writing time and reading at night (getting kid to read during the day never quite works) Science has both a 1/2 hour video and an online tutorial that would be done during "class time", but there is much reading to accompany it (two different texts). German is an online program that goes in "units". He usually does 5 a day, and it varies depending on how quickly he "gets" it. Theology ALWAYS goes long. Always. Kid's favorite subject. Music is a combo of band (the 120 min) and daily practice (around an hour). What I mean by "a lot" is that, at least last year, we seemed to go for 8+ hours every day - and then he'd be reading at night. Even though I didn't schedule that many hours, he never seemed to make it through things as timely as I thought was possible. When I look at his contemporaries in PS, I see them going to class, and then having a butt-load of homework. I want to incorporate what would be homework into his regular day, but I recognize (after last year), that a 15 yo boy just doesn't do too well "doing" school from 8am to 5pm. It is serious burn out. We finished all subjects (like Pamela H, I strive for "complete the book" rather than particular hours), except Geometry (family emergency). So it isn't so much "kid needs X hours to get credit" as much as it is "how do I make sure I'm allotting enough time each day to finish the curricula by the end of the year". I guess I'll just have to see how the next couple of weeks shake out and gauge from there. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 So it isn't so much "kid needs X hours to get credit" I am just SO against this concept. I'm POSITIVE it's because of my own children's needs. When your student finishes an assignment in 15 minutes though average for that program is 60 minutes, you just get that thought out of your head. You certainly aren't going to not give credit for Algebra II because it was done in 1/4 of the time! Then, when you turn around and have another student who takes a full hour to do what another student would take 20 minutes to do, you can't see giving him credit for doing 1/3 the work (or giving 3 times the number of credits for the same work). Sorry to get on my soapbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 :iagree:. Currently my youngest does math likety split. That is fine- she gets it. My older dd takes longer. I don't care that geometry (with a seven month long headache) took her almost 2 years- it is one credit not two. Now I made an exception to her US HIstory when I realized how much she was learning and how much reading she had done. Two very large texts will equal two years of US History. THe also includes tons of field trips plus docmuntaries watched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I am just SO against this concept. I'm POSITIVE it's because of my own children's needs. When your student finishes an assignment in 15 minutes though average for that program is 60 minutes, you just get that thought out of your head. You certainly aren't going to not give credit for Algebra II because it was done in 1/4 of the time! Then, when you turn around and have another student who takes a full hour to do what another student would take 20 minutes to do, you can't see giving him credit for doing 1/3 the work (or giving 3 times the number of credits for the same work). Sorry to get on my soapbox. See, I have a completely different philosophy. Since I am tailoring my children's education to fit their needs, I pick sources and pace that provide an appropriate level of challenge. I create assignments that will take approx an hr or an hr and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Since I am tailoring my children's education to fit their needs, I pick sources and pace that provide an appropriate level of challenge. I create assignments that will take approx an hr or an hr and a half. Do you purposely fill up particular amounts of time for some reason, or is it that the challenges you feel they need take up those time amounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 I'm wondering the same thing as Colleen. I have already chosen my curricula to match his levels/abilities. My problem is that I am such a crap scheduler that I don't want to be at the end of the year with a whole bunch to do yet simply because we spent more time on the "fun" stuff than finishing the texts! In middle school, I didn't really care, but now, in high school, kiddo really does need to finish texts/time periods in history (bio, chem, history, etc.). a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin in DFW Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 just because a student is in class for say...45 mins to an hour in ps does not mean they work for that long. Also, some students have homework, some don't...I think this applies for homeschool also...some kids get done in less time, some take more. Once we complete a course, whether it took 7 months or 11 months...my student gets a credit for it...so, if my dd completes her math book cover to cover in 7 months, then she gets a credit. No ps I've ever had experience with has the kids complete a book cover to cover. We usually spend about 6 hours a day on school...sometimes less...sometimes a little more. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 momof7, well, I think it is fine that we just have a different philosophy. And I can see how that could work with a very capable student for things like history and such. But oftentimes, you're no longer doing a certain level of work if you've done 4 times as much. But fact is that my slower student still needs a basic education regardless. There is no way he can learn enough basic information for some things in just an hour per day. Enough to have what is reasonable for a basic education and Enough to be considered a credit in a subject. I make accomodations. I use different levels of materials and projects and such for each kid. We even have completely different courses for some things. But in the end, they need to have a specific body of knowledge. Considerably less is unacceptable unless they just aren't capable of it. Considerably more should be noted appropriately as they shouldn't have to do without getting credit. I'm not being clear, I guess. I guess I think there is a general body know knowledge that must be covered. My son doing 1/3 of it is not appropriate. My daughter doing 3 years worth of college chemistry but getting credit only for high school Chem I isn't appropriate. I guess in the end, I find an hour to just be an arbitrary number of minutes. Why not 30 minutes? Why not 90 minutes? Why not 30 minutes for this subject but 90 for that one? And so it goes. LOL Seriously, I think it is FINE for anyone to pick whatever method of figuring they wish to do. I'm just not willing to pick an arbitrary amount of time and aim for it neglecting a child's education significantly if he can't get it done in that amount of time or not giving them credit for learning multiple years worth of information if she can get so much more done in that amount of time. BUT again, that is probably not the case for most people. It just would have been/would be the case for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Once we complete a course, whether it took 7 months or 11 months...my student gets a credit for it. Well, I do kinda disagree with this though. There is a limit to when I'd hand out a credit. To me, part of a high school credit is doing it in a certain amount of time (a quarter, a semester, a school year). I could justify "summer school" time giving a student 11 or 12 months, but I definitely wouldn't justify over that. This is usually more of an issue with maths. A student that needs 15, 18, 24 months to complete one Algebra I text probably needs to run through another text to make sure they have a firm foundation before moving on. I guess I'm just weird about some of these things.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 We school year-round, and take "vacations" whenever dad is home or mom needs a mental health break :glare:, so some things take 6 months, and some do take 11. But I understand your point - kiddo needs to understand that courses have beginnings and endings, and that there are no mental health breaks at uni, LOL. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Do you purposely fill up particular amounts of time for some reason, or is it that the challenges you feel they need take up those time amounts? It is whether or not the challenge level is appropriate. All textbooks/selections are not equal. If my student were finishing math in 15 mins without trouble, I would switch to a program that challenged them to perform at a higher level. Ditto to science. I see providing the challenge as equal to not using a program that leaves them overwhelmed and frustrated and not learning. It is all about meeting them where they are. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barb B Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If my student were finishing math in 15 mins without trouble, I would switch to a program that challenged them to perform at a higher level. Ditto to science. I agree. The thing is to match the text book/curriculum to your student. I don't set times for each subject because they seem to take the amount of time I would have set (hope that made sense!). Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 I create assignments that will take approx an hr or an hr and a half. It is whether or not the challenge level is appropriate. It seems to me that the *time frame* of 1-1.5 hours on each of most tailored/challenging subjects is important to you - it seems like you purposely fill 1-1.5 hours - is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (purely from a scheduling point of view) Since you: 1) are a year round schooler, 2) operate on a "finish the book" basis more than a "fill up the weekly hours" basis, 3) think he took longer each day last year than you thought he would, and 4) are certain that the courses are appropriate for him - would it work for you to take each book/course and just divide each up into x amount of pages per week? Let's say you determined that 6 weeks would be for breaks scattered through the year - spread the work over 46 weeks. Could that work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 It seems to me that the *time frame* of 1-1.5 hours on each of most tailored/challenging subjects is important to you - it seems like you purposely fill 1-1.5 hours - is that correct? It is not simply "filling time." It is providing them with information to learn and master that takes that amt of time to accomplish. For example, my kids could complete one alg course in about 20-30 mins (which I did not give high school credit for). Another alg took over an hr. I do not consider the materials covered in the 2 courses equal. The 2nd was definitely more challenging and required them to really think and apply concepts. Between the 2, the 2nd matched their ability levels. A typical high school credit hr is 150 hrs. FWIW.......I can't imagine the shock my ds would have experienced going to college where he works hours outside of each class on homework if his experience was 15 mins for a course. Class attendance alone is approx 3 hrs/week for a single course and that course may have 6-10 hrs of homework. I want to provide a foundation that makes the transition to college level work a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 It is not simply "filling time." I want to provide a foundation that makes the transition to college level work a non-issue. I didn't think or say it was "simply filling time." I used the words "tailored/challenging subjects" to show that I understand that challenging material is important to you. The length of time aspect seemed important, and I just wanted to understand if this was so, and why. I'm now concluding that it is, and your explanation makes the reason clear to me. It helps me, when reading through people's comments on a thread, to understand where they are coming from, in relation to the topic at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) FWIW.......I can't imagine the shock my ds would have experienced going to college where he works hours outside of each class on homework if his experience was 15 mins for a course. Class attendance alone is approx 3 hrs/week for a single course and that course may have 6-10 hrs of homework. I want to provide a foundation that makes the transition to college level work a non-issue. However, Calculus II just is what it is. Is the professor going to give the student who takes only 2 hours to do the homework additional work? No. BTW, nor is he going to cut back the work for the student who will need to study 12 or 15 hours or more. The professor is going to go through his course of study. He may throw in a few easier problems for certain students to catch on and he may throw in a challenge problem or two for certain students, but he isn't going to make sure every student has X hours worth of study material each week. They can either do the work at that level or not; and he doesn't care whether homework and studying takes you 2 hours per week or 15. Edited August 26, 2009 by 2J5M9K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 However, Calculus II just is what it is. Is the professor going to give the student who takes only 2 hours to do the homework additional work? No. BTW, nor is he going to cut back the work for the student who will need to study 12 or 15 hours or more. The professor is going to go through his course of study. He may throw in a few easier problems for certain students to catch on and he may throw in a challenge problem or two for certain students, but he isn't going to make sure every student has X hours worth of study material each week. They can either do the work at that level or not; and he doesn't care whether homework and studying takes you 2 hours per week or 15. :iagree: However, again, when I am the teacher I can control the situation. I can provide the challenging word problems that require effort to solve vs. simple solution type problems. If an entire day's assignment is being completed in 15 mins, than I would probably add an additional math course that requires more mental math challenges like a class in number theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 okay, agreeing to disagree. We actually agree more than I can articulate but... *I* will give credit for having learned a subject within a school year. If it takes 50 hours or 300 hours, one gets the credit based on the subject matter learned. Though I will accomodate greatly and flesh things out for individuals, you get the credit for completing the material and "owning" the subject matter on the level that the credit suggests. And you can make them do 150 (or whatever) hours giving them a credit for the time regardless of how many levels or how much of a level they've learned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 (purely from a scheduling point of view) Since you: 1) are a year round schooler, 2) operate on a "finish the book" basis more than a "fill up the weekly hours" basis, 3) think he took longer each day last year than you thought he would, and 4) are certain that the courses are appropriate for him - would it work for you to take each book/course and just divide each up into x amount of pages per week? Let's say you determined that 6 weeks would be for breaks scattered through the year - spread the work over 46 weeks. Could that work? This sounds good, thank you. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammyla Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Our schedule varies by subject. Basically I follow the 50 minute hour block for planning as well as my state and reporting requirements to our accredited diploma program. It boils down to a specific number of hours or completing an approved text for each credit. If my student were working on an AP course, I'd give AP credit on the transcript, but any course which is completed is credited no matter the time it takes. Last year my dd was able to finish up history a few months early by working ahead. She got the credit for completing the text and assigned course work, then enjoyed a little more free time. My personal policy is to reward good work with a break rather than falling into the trap of rewarding good work with more work. I'll totally admit to just the opposite years ago and burning her out.:tongue_smilie: ymmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 We finished all subjects (like Pamela H, I strive for "complete the book" rather than particular hours), except Geometry (family emergency). So it isn't so much "kid needs X hours to get credit" as much as it is "how do I make sure I'm allotting enough time each day to finish the curricula by the end of the year". a Ahh, that makes more sense. I figure that a well rounded high school curriculum, being completed by one student, justifies the appropriate credits, independent of how long it takes them. There are some programs out there that while they touch on all state standards, are not what I would consider thorough enough for high school credit. I also know some homeschoolers who only go until the last day scheduled and don't bother to finish the curriculum. I think there is a fine line between 'pser's don't do every page of a book, so we don't have too vs. putting in enough time to justify high school credit. Only you will know what is appropriate for you son, utilizing the curriculum and accounting for his prior knowledge/skill level and desired goals. Another big factor is how many days you do in a school year. Some hsers do only the required days, others go way over...again only you will know this when you are figuring how much time to allow. When I scheduled for ds14, I would figure out how many days we planned to do school for the year and then I gave him a time line for each subject. For instance we had 180 school days but only 120 math lessons. So he would do 60 lessons (plus additional tests) in the first 90 days, and the remaining 60 lessons + tests in the latter 90 days. If he got done early....he was done early. I used to set a bench mark every month or so that would look like this "Math: Oct 31 lesson 25". It meant that he could be further than lesson 25 but he absolutely had to be at lesson 25 or he was getting behind. I never scheduled daily lessons, just periodic bench marks. This worked well for us because he would sometimes get bored at night and work ahead in his books, banking the time for the future. He liked math so he started working on the next years math early and ended up a year ahead in math. I thought you were going to end up running long each day, but it sounds like you already know that. Also someone alluded to the fact that you year round school, and that can make a big difference, especially if you do it to simplify the day, and not to push forward faster. If you son does school work on more days of the year, then the days/hours will add up over time. Someone also mentioned, if ds is finishing really fast maybe a higher level is needed. I agree with this but only from the stand point of some kids take regular Biology in high school some kids take AP Biology. If a kid doesn't have a strong interest in biology, I don't see a problem letting them take an easier class that will just get them the high school credit. But if the child has a strong interest and aptitude, and would like to try for the AP exam...then that is great! But it doesn't mean one student was shortchanged, just that the second child took an opportunity to try a harder route. Personally, if this is the case I would add in extra subjects that they are more interested in or find something constructive for the student to do to fill the time (lest mine will hang out on the computer for hours)). It looks like you do the same offering him theology and music. To me making high school harder or more challenging is going to benefit the student in college by allowing them to test out of classes and to give them a very firm, well rounded foundation in academics by having a few more gaps filled in. Some kids don't care about this, and they just take the extra classes, and work a little harder in college to fill in the same gaps. To me it isn't a matter of what they are going to learn...as much as when they will learn it. I see benefits to rigorous classes but I also see benefit to slowing down, not pushing as hard, having more free time and just taking another year in college to round it all out. You and yours, have to make these decisions, not anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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