I need advice for disorganized [but plentry smart enough] 17yo transitioning to cc

[74Heaven]

I always get wonderful advice from WTMers. TIA.

 

My extremely disorganized 17yo dtr will be going to cc this fall and taking Eng 101, biology and a technology/MS office type of class. Her goal is to be a nurse in 3 years or so in cc RN program. She will at the same time [first actually] be getting her 2yr degree for poss transfer to a 4yr college.

 

She is extremely disorganized and does not like science much. [yes, I've pointed out the nurse/science disconnect - she have to figure out how much she likes nursing/dislikes science.]

 

I want to start by saying she is a wonderful young woman with no real big issues nor disobedience/disrespect but a current healthy dose of MEism.

 

I also want to say I have been trying desperately to help her become a more independent learner but finding if I am not pushing/organizing, ''asking the right 'may I see your 3 pg typed history report that is due tomorrow' questions - then things remain on her ''I'll get them done soon list''. She truly believes this. She is homeschooled since birth and scores well on most standardized and her SAT test last spring. She is a good student but I worry that too much of that is me as I am a demanding teacher, pushing her for good results. When in outside classes, she does the minimum and usually pulls and A or Bplus.

 

Her problems/weaknesses are -

--some of the worst lack of organization skills I have yet to see

--lack of self motivation

--lack of self-discipline [i.e. on the computer when she should be in bed, eating junk when out of our sight, reading when s/be studying]

--lack of focus, procrastination and poor study skills partly because of ADHD [medicated]

--new attitude of I'm the most important person in this family [7 in family]

--part time job af 15-20 hours a week that she needs to keep for money

--immature

--will get up on time for work, struggles 3-4x a week when it is time to get up for school or chores

 

Once again, I can see many great traits in this girl - but how oh how will she succeed. I m told that she needs As in most of her nurse prerequisites in order to get into the nursing program. Not sure how true this is.

 

Pls [once again] help me.... help her.....

lisaj, mom to 5

[CherylG]

I just read your stats on your public profile and you listed organized as one of your qualities. (gently)Do you think your daughter is trying to be independent by being disorganized? We have two older adult children and we have seen them go through something similar.

Edited August 12, 2009 by CherylG
clarification

[LinRTX]

The best way I have taught my disorganized kids to organize themselves is to step out of the picture and let them fail.

 

My oldest got B's in two classes, not because he could not do the work, but because he knew better than the professor what he/she wanted and would not do the assignment the way it was said to be done.

 

Example: For his English class he would not use MLA format, so his excellent A paper was a C just for formatting!

The next paper was a B because he could not believe anyone would want the margins that way.

 

He learned to do it the prof's way, not his way and ended up with an overall 3.9 GPA by the time he graduated.

Take a hands off approach and just be there to offer guidance when asked. You will be.

 

Linda

[dragons in the flower bed]

Have you considered having her evaluated for ADHD? There's a non-hyperactive type that tends to simply forget things an awful lot.

[Cedarmom]

Could she just take one or two classes at the cc for her first semester?That way she could sort of learn slowly rather than diving in. Just practicing being organized with one class (which if its hard is a lot) might be easier. Other ideas; some colleges offer classes on organization that might help and Teaching Company's Superstar student. I thought my son was disorganized, but when he took a class at the cc, he learned quickly how to become organized.

[TravelingChris]

I see that you wrote that she is medicated for ADHD. When was the last time you changed either the dose or the medication? I ask becaue it sounds like the medication isn't working well. My ADHD girl is doing very well now that her medication has been adjusted. Her ninth grade year was problematic both from the ADHD point and from her having a seven month long headache. She has now been on one medication for almost a year and it is working well and everything is even better since we added something for her for her hormonal issues.

[Anne]

I have two grown daughters.

 

I would tell her that I wanted to sit down and talk with her about how she wanted me to help her with school AND how she's going to handle her new demands of college and work. Maybe talk about how many hsers struggle with deadlines/scheduling when they first start college and you want to be sure she has strategies in place to be successful. Give her some advance warning of the conversation so she can think about it.

 

Sit down over tea and chocolate (or whatever makes her happy) and just see how she envisions things playing out. YOu may be pleasantly surprised! If she is extremely resistant to doing any kind of planning or letting you help her, you may just have to let her sink or swim on her own and hope she learns her lesson quickly.

 

One thing I did with mine was to emphasize that there are many ways to organize, and "my way" might not work for them. I tried to approach the subject from a "let's see what methods might work for you" perspective rather than a "this is the way it's done" approach.

 

Good luck - I know this can be very difficult!!!

 

Anne

[G5052]

The college I work for has a one-credit course that is superb IMHO, basically a run-down of all the basics on how to suceed in college. They even have major-oriented classes so they can discuss specifically how to be successful in the nursing program, business, IT, etc. My guess is that it's going to be better coming from someone other than you.

 

And yes, nursing requires good grades and organization. That's the #1 major at the college where I work, and it's a very competitive program and a tough one by all reports. I've had students accuse me of keeping them out of the nursing program because they failed my class, but who would want a disorganized nurse? Most of the students I fail end up with an "F" because they didn't turn in homework at all. That's an organizational issue, not an issue of how I teach or configure the assignments.

[katilac]

I think every high school student should take an organization/time management course, either a "home school" version or an actual class or seminar. It's that important.

 

My 6th grader just started watching "How to be a Superstar Student" from The Teaching Company today (dvd and workbook from the library). When she is a teen, I plan to send her to a Franklin Quest or similar seminar, and we will also do other courses/books from the library periodically.

 

Can you check your library for the Superstar course? It gets rave reviews, and the dvd lectures make it more of a 'class' than simply reading a book on your own. A class at school would be great as well, but this she could do before even starting (and it's not a 'one-time' thing, but a skill that should be sharpened often).

 

A good thing about dvds and/or outside courses is that it's not YOU. An expert is someone from out of town, dontcha' know, or at least someone who is not mom :tongue_smilie:.

 

She has to 'own' her discipline and motivation at this age, not much you can do about that.

 

Other than offering her resources like this, and being available if she wants advice, I think the ball pretty much needs to be in her court now. She knows what needs to happen to get those letters behind her name, so if she doesn't get up for class? Oh, well, you know she is capable of doing so!

 

I'd make sure meds/treatment don't need updating, I'd make sure she knows certain resources are available, and I'd make sure she knows she can come to me for advice. Then I'd wish her luck and cut her loose.

[74Heaven]

I just read your stats on your public profile and you listed organized as one of your qualities. (gently)Do you think your daughter is trying to be independent by being disorganized? We have two older adult children and we have seen them go through something similar.

 

In fact, she is just like my husband in this regard. He had the audience in stitches at a church year-end program as he talked about [and demonstrated] his lack of organization. Dtr is the same except I am helping her, i.e. teaching her how to use an organizer [it makes a huge difference IF I stay on her to use it and i become a nagging shrew].

 

I should mention to that I am sure I am ADD but I have found relentless note writing and organizing [almost a passion] to render the affliction annoying but not disabling. For instance, in college I rode the bus alot - I left something on the bus [like a jacket, homework, etc.] and from that experience, I still to-this-day, look around my seat when I leave a party or a friend's house or even, when getting out of my own car.

 

I have all kinds of habits like that that are ingrained and I do them w/o thinking. When someone asks me a date/time, I invariably stall with ''wait, I have to write that down'' or ''I think we are free, but I need to double check.''

 

She is a chronic time waster. And I think this is a big issue because of the part time job, the 45min commute to college and her classes are in 1.5 and 2 hours blocks 2-3 days a week. IOW, I think she'd do better with 3 1-hr morning classes, 5 days a week but those classes were gone, so we have the next best thing - longer classes, fewer meetings...

 

I think her schedule at college is pretty reasonable, one hard science and one medium English and one class on how to use MS products for writing projects in college.

 

We did do the Super Star student video series a few years ago - I found it so-so, we could review it again - also she can outline/take notes with the best.

 

Also, last year she used the Homeschoolers High School Journal planner and it worked pretty well - I'm guessing she would like something that said college - anyone have some organizer for student recommendations...

 

BTW, we are discussing how to set up her binders. Because of the ADHD [for her mostly focus, not high activity] I was going to sugg 3 binders, one for each subject. I figured this would be best because she would have less distracting paperwork in each binder [maybe 3 zipper binders] - that way her English would stay in her english binder; biology in biology etc - and on the days she only has one of the classes, she could just carry one binder. I thought this would be best because ea binder could have pens, pencils, etc. and anything she needed for all classes could be in her backpack or purse. [this is how we did it for high school and dtr kind of said she gets tired of taking care of all those binders, i.e. making sure her spanish fl cards are in spanish, extra paper, etc.

 

Another friend sugg one huge binder with 3 sections because that way she would have less binders to take care, less supplies to misplace, etc. I'm wondering if this binder would be too huge to be practical.

 

I do so appreciate all of the advice - esp on how much I should/should not be involved. I will work on the coffee night out to talk about this stuff. This will be a good door-opener.

 

BTW, her ADD dose was adjusted up in June. It has seemed to work better but summer is a totally different animal here as we go from 8 hours a day of school and homework to NO school, working 30 hrs a week, playing hard and cleaning hard the rest of the time...

 

thanks again - Lisaj who plans to type out all this great advice - it has been very specific and helpful

[Deb in NZ]

polytech is like cc & the program she's in (Foundation Studies) is for people wanting to get in to the nursing program. Dd doesn't want to go into nursing, but instead is using the course to provide the "papertrail" to get her into marine biology at another polytech. Dd has classes 9:00-2:30 (M-TH) & she rides her bike most days the 5 miles to class. Getting up & away on time was the biggest challenge for the first couple of weeks. It has been hard to stand back & let her do things her way. As far as school supplies, the tutors provided a list of required items. Dd has one big 3" binder with 5 dividers for all her classes. It is huge, but dd likes to use morning tea & lunch breaks to work on her studies, so it works for her. On mondays she has Info. Tech. (learning to use MS Office) 9:00-12:00 & Academic Skills (English & study skills) 12:30-2:30. Tuesdays she has Data Analysis (math/statistics) all day. Wednesday is Academic Skills in the morning & Info. Tech. in the afternoon. Thursdays is Human Biology all day. Dd has had to really focus to keep up in her studies when a class is only once a week. Leaving assignments / studying to the last moment just won't work. Dd has watched TTC Superstar Student & tries to implement a lot of what it covered into her organization. What's been hardest for me is to not try to get her to do things my way. In the past I have set up the schedules / assignment sheets / notebooks, etc. for our studies. She wants to do it her way.

[74Heaven]

As far as school supplies, the tutors provided a list of required items. Dd has one big 3" binder with 5 dividers for all her classes. It is huge, but dd likes to use morning tea & lunch breaks to work on her studies, so it works for her. On mondays she has Info. Tech. (learning to use MS Office) 9:00-12:00 & Academic Skills (English & study skills) 12:30-2:30. Tuesdays she has Data Analysis (math/statistics) all day. Wednesday is Academic Skills in the morning & Info. Tech. in the afternoon. Thursdays is Human Biology all day. Dd has had to really focus to keep up in her studies when a class is only once a week. Leaving assignments / studying to the last moment just won't work. Dd has watched TTC Superstar Student & tries to implement a lot of what it covered into her organization. What's been hardest for me is to not try to get her to do things my way. In the past I have set up the schedules / assignment sheets / notebooks, etc. for our studies. She wants to do it her way.

 

Thanks, Deb. So how does dtr organizer her day, i.e. get up at 630a, lv at 830a, class, study hours [does she study right after class, at night, an hour at a time...] You can email me privately if you are willing/would like to. My email is ljdeerparkATaol.com.

 

 

Others too - how have your students tackled their ''own'' day; esp if they've had to work in a part time job...

Thanks for the organizer tips

 

Someone sugg TTC video- I think I will check the library for the Superstar Student DVDs. We could certainly go thru them again and dtr could gather a few tips. Dtr might be more interested now with this responsibility about to fall on her shoulders more heavily.

 

And someone asked, dtr is taking a 1 credit 3 days in early Sept 'How to be successful at CC' class. That should be very helpful.

 

TIA again to all of you - for those BTDT, please share more tips/successes/failures.

 

Lisaj, mom to 5

[LoriM]

The best way I have taught my disorganized kids to organize themselves is to step out of the picture and let them fail.

 

My oldest got B's in two classes, not because he could not do the work, but because he knew better than the professor what he/she wanted and would not do the assignment the way it was said to be done.

 

Example: For his English class he would not use MLA format, so his excellent A paper was a C just for formatting!

The next paper was a B because he could not believe anyone would want the margins that way.

 

He learned to do it the prof's way, not his way and ended up with an overall 3.9 GPA by the time he graduated.

Take a hands off approach and just be there to offer guidance when asked. You will be.

 

Linda

 

Linda---this post has brought me joy all day long. Honest. This is exactly how I have to manage things with my younger (stubborn) dd. She has always risen to the occasion (so far), but she bounces a couple of times first. GRIN.

 

I think "not believing they want margins that way" is one of the funniest things I've ever read. I can just see his face. It makes me wish I could draw cartoons, I see this so vividly. :)

[katilac]

Others too - how have your students tackled their ''own'' day; esp if they've had to work in a part time job...

Thanks for the organizer tips

Lisaj, mom to 5

 

I just wanted to address the whole part-time job issue briefly. My kids aren't there yet, but, from what I've seen and personally experienced, students with part-time jobs don't have any more of a hard time than those without one.

 

Students with more time on their hands often fall into the trap of "oh, I don't need to do that NOW; I can study/write/finish that project later."

 

Students who have much of their schedule allotted to jobs and extra-curriculars know study hours are limited, and plan accordingly. There was never a time in my academic career that I didn't work, and I still managed to party pretty hard, be involved in lots of extras, and graduate in four years.

 

It's a rare college student who, given 20 extra hours a week, spends the majority of them studying :lol:.