OK...so SAT2 exams seem to be most imporatant....so....

[Mommyfaithe]

what texts/ programs besides the actual study books do you use to cover the material on the tests?? I would especially like to know this about the Math 1 & 2 and the English Comp...Also Chemistry and Physics....

Any success stories that go along with a text, online class or program?? Thanks,

Faithe

[readwithem]

Hmmm... there's not an English Comp SAT test - do you mean Literature?

 

My dd has done very well on Chemistry, Math 2 and Literature (>750) using Princeton Review. I would suggest taking your student to a bookstore and look at the books they have and let your student determine which one(s) would be a good fit. The best book is the one your student will actually READ :)

[HollyinNNV]

what texts/ programs besides the actual study books do you use to cover the material on the tests?? I would especially like to know this about the Math 1 & 2 and the English Comp...Also Chemistry and Physics....

Any success stories that go along with a text, online class or program?? Thanks,

Faithe

 

I wouldn't call our experience a success story, but we did learn a lot! DD took bio as a 9th grader. The class was rigorous. We used PH and covered the entire book-over 1,000 pages. The month of May we finished the last unit on human body and began taking SAT practice tests. From the first practice test, we knew we had major problems. (co-op class of 4 kids) The students were scoring far lower than we expected. The practice tests were really, really hard. Going over the practice tests, we found that our kids knew the content but were not seeing how the tests were often tricking them into the wrong answers. Over the course of May, with intensive work, the kids improved their scores over 200 points. The week before the test in June we did a bunch of review and MORE practice tests. In the end, dd scored approx 250 pts better than the first practice test she took.

 

The practice tests helped in a couple ways. First, the kids saw how the test makers often try and trick you in many different ways. Second, the kids saw how they needed to create a strategy when they decided how many questions to attempt to answer. (You do get dinged for wrong answers.) Third, the kids understood how long an hour is and learned to budget their time wisely.

 

Yes, we spent an exorbitant amount of money on practice tests. Yes, it was worth it in the end. Some of the practice tests were way, way harder than the real thing! This was pretty discouraging to the kids. The test book that ended up being closest to dd's final score was McGraw-Hill. However, the book isn't highly regarded, and I only bought it because we ran out of the more highly regarded publishers.

 

One of the difficult things about our experience is that two of the big topics on the bio test, genetics & biochem, were covered in our book at the beginning of the year. So, we found that the kids had to spend a bunch of time relearning these topics. It is a case for having midterms and final exams. Had the kids reviewed these topics in January, we might have saved ourselves some headaches at the end of the year.

 

The other thing to remember is that you are often taking these tests with students that have taken the AP class. That wrecks the curve. If your child is going to end up taking the AP class eventually, I'd recommend waiting to take the SAT II. If they are not going to take the AP, then make sure your coursework is rigorous. That was our experience. YMMV.

 

I am hoping that the extra time we spent preparing for this first SATII will pay off in the long run. The students will be more prepared the next time around. They'll know how helpful the practice tests are. They'll know what kind of questions to expect. We'll see. The same kids are thinking about doing the SAT Chem.

 

HTH,

Holly

[Brenda in MA]

My son did well on the Math 2 exam after completing Chalkdust PreCalc. He also did well on the Physics exam after using Giancoli Physics.

 

Brenda

[asta]

SparkNotes has a great review program for free, online.

 

 

a

[Blue Hen]

The other thing to remember is that you are often taking these tests with students that have taken the AP class. That wrecks the curve. If your child is going to end up taking the AP class eventually, I'd recommend waiting to take the SAT II. If they are not going to take the AP, then make sure your coursework is rigorous. That was our experience. YMMV.

 

My ds is one of those 'curve wreckers' He took AP Bio in 10th grade but since we headed out west for a few months he didn't get around to taking the SAT Subject test in Bio until the end of 11th grade. He took one SAT Subject practice test and nothing else for review. He scored very close to 800. He also took AP Chem in 11th grade and took the SAT Subject test in chem too, scoring close to 800.

 

Having the AP classes helped make the SAT Subject tests 'easier'

 

Carole

[HollyinNNV]

My ds is one of those 'curve wreckers'

 

Carole

 

Heh, heh. Maybe "curve enhancer" sounds nicer. But then it sounds like I'm talking about an exercise machine.:D

Holly

[Mommyfaithe]

Hmmm... there's not an English Comp SAT test - do you mean Literature?

 

My dd has done very well on Chemistry, Math 2 and Literature (>750) using Princeton Review. I would suggest taking your student to a bookstore and look at the books they have and let your student determine which one(s) would be a good fit. The best book is the one your student will actually READ :)

 

I am not really talking about study guides...I am asking about the coursework that precedes the study books...

Like if your child did the Literature SAT2, and did very well, what Literature Program did you use for high school...

 

If your child did well in Math 2...what math coursework, or programs did you use to prepare PRIOR to the study guides...

 

I don't think it is wise to just throw a study guide at the poor kid without some real coursework...right?? LOL!

 

So, any experience with courses...good or bad...in prep for SAT....

Please share...PLEASE?????

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

My ds is one of those 'curve wreckers' He took AP Bio in 10th grade but since we headed out west for a few months he didn't get around to taking the SAT Subject test in Bio until the end of 11th grade. He took one SAT Subject practice test and nothing else for review. He scored very close to 800. He also took AP Chem in 11th grade and took the SAT Subject test in chem too, scoring close to 800.

 

Having the AP classes helped make the SAT Subject tests 'easier'

 

Carole

 

Welp, my son is the opposite of the curve wrecker...he is in need of a curve...

We used Apologia Bio and Advanced Bio...he scored very well with all the material and then used the Princeton and Barrons SAT2 prep books...felt he was going to do great ...and only scored a 600. OK, he is a young 9th grader, but still....If he is not going to do really well on these tests, it would be much better for him NOT to do them...but then again, maybe the programs we used did not prepare him well. I don't want that to happen to him again...he was very disappointed in his scores...and felt like he failed.

 

I want his program SOLID...and I don't want to fail him here...

 

So any experienced help would be great... I am all ears...(or eyes as the case may be...)

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

I wouldn't call our experience a success story, but we did learn a lot! DD took bio as a 9th grader. The class was rigorous. We used PH and covered the entire book-over 1,000 pages. The month of May we finished the last unit on human body and began taking SAT practice tests. From the first practice test, we knew we had major problems. (co-op class of 4 kids) The students were scoring far lower than we expected. The practice tests were really, really hard. Going over the practice tests, we found that our kids knew the content but were not seeing how the tests were often tricking them into the wrong answers. Over the course of May, with intensive work, the kids improved their scores over 200 points. The week before the test in June we did a bunch of review and MORE practice tests. In the end, dd scored approx 250 pts better than the first practice test she took.

 

The practice tests helped in a couple ways. First, the kids saw how the test makers often try and trick you in many different ways. Second, the kids saw how they needed to create a strategy when they decided how many questions to attempt to answer. (You do get dinged for wrong answers.) Third, the kids understood how long an hour is and learned to budget their time wisely.

 

Yes, we spent an exorbitant amount of money on practice tests. Yes, it was worth it in the end. Some of the practice tests were way, way harder than the real thing! This was pretty discouraging to the kids. The test book that ended up being closest to dd's final score was McGraw-Hill. However, the book isn't highly regarded, and I only bought it because we ran out of the more highly regarded publishers.

 

One of the difficult things about our experience is that two of the big topics on the bio test, genetics & biochem, were covered in our book at the beginning of the year. So, we found that the kids had to spend a bunch of time relearning these topics. It is a case for having midterms and final exams. Had the kids reviewed these topics in January, we might have saved ourselves some headaches at the end of the year.

 

The other thing to remember is that you are often taking these tests with students that have taken the AP class. That wrecks the curve. If your child is going to end up taking the AP class eventually, I'd recommend waiting to take the SAT II. If they are not going to take the AP, then make sure your coursework is rigorous. That was our experience. YMMV.

 

I am hoping that the extra time we spent preparing for this first SATII will pay off in the long run. The students will be more prepared the next time around. They'll know how helpful the practice tests are. They'll know what kind of questions to expect. We'll see. The same kids are thinking about doing the SAT Chem.

 

HTH,

Holly

 

THANK YOU!! This is just the sort of info I am looking for...more please...

 

~~Faithe

[Brenda in MA]

Faithe,

 

My son only used the Apologia Chem (not the advanced course), and it only covered about 2/3 of the material on the SAT2 Chem exam. Even after a couple of weeks of heavy prep and me tutoring him on the stuff he didn't cover in the course, he only scored a 610. I was very disappointed. Hence the change in curriculum to Giancoli for Physics.

 

Brenda

[Blue Hen]

...and felt like he failed.

 

I want his program SOLID...and I don't want to fail him here...

 

So any experienced help would be great... I am all ears...(or eyes as the case may be...)Faithe

 

Here's how DS became so well prepared for his SAT Subject 2 tests:

 

My son took AP Biology with Pa HS'ers --- Dr. Gross is the teacher. Wonderful lady, super course. He felt well prepared for the AP exam, even enjoyed taking it! (he scored a 5)

 

This past year he took AP Chemistry with PA HS'ers ---- Mr. Moskaluk is the teacher. He also has an Honors Chemistry course for hs'ers. Wonderful guy, super course. DS felt well prepared for the AP exam, even enjoyed taking it. (we're waiting for his results to come in)

 

This coming year DS wants to take AP Physics C ---- I'm going to be his teacher and he's been begging me to find him an online class. The ones I have found are way too expensive. DS is concerned as to whether or not I can prepare him. (He was spoiled by how well Dr. Gross and Mr. Moskaluk prepared him) We have the books, the lab supplies, MIT opencourseware, and Kathy in Richmond's BTDT notes. An online course would be so much easier for me......

 

Carole

 

ps--I'm in my second year of teaching AP Statistics for PA HS'ers. DS took AP Bio before I was their AP Stat teacher.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Blue Hen
add my association w/ PA HS'ers

[Mommyfaithe]

Here's how DS became so well prepared for his SAT Subject 2 tests:

 

My son took AP Biology with Pa HS'ers --- Dr. Gross is the teacher. Wonderful lady, super course. He felt well prepared for the AP exam, even enjoyed taking it! (he scored a 5)

 

This past year he took AP Chemistry with PA HS'ers ---- Mr. Moskaluk is the teacher. He also has an Honors Chemistry course for hs'ers. Wonderful guy, super course. DS felt well prepared for the AP exam, even enjoyed taking it. (we're waiting for his results to come in)

 

This coming year DS wants to take AP Physics C ---- I'm going to be his teacher and he's been begging me to find him an online class. The ones I have found are way too expensive. DS is concerned as to whether or not I can prepare him. (He was spoiled by how well Dr. Gross and Mr. Moskaluk prepared him) We have the books, the lab supplies, MIT opencourseware, and Kathy in Richmond's BTDT notes. An online course would be so much easier for me......

 

Carole

 

ps--I'm in my second year of teaching AP Statistics for PA HS'ers. DS took AP Bio before I was their AP Stat teacher.

 

So, You do both AP and SAT 2?? I guess that would make sense to get college credit for one and merit aid for the other...Is that why you did it that way??

 

My school system is just not coming forth with the info I need in order to secure a seat for AP exams...sigh...While my district is not homeschool hostile...it could not be confused with being homeschool friendly...sigh...

 

Would it be better, do you think, if I contacted the local Christian school and asked them to reserve a seat for him??

 

I have tried before to get all these ducks in a row, threw up my hands in disgust and just had my kids do CC. I am just not sure that is the best route for this ds...

 

Now...off to look at PA Homeschoolers once again....

Faithe

[Kareni]

 

... to secure a seat for AP exams...

 

Would it be better, do you think, if I contacted the local Christian school and asked them to reserve a seat for him??

 

 

 

Part of the challenge of arranging the AP exam is the fact that the exam your child is taking may not be amongst those that the school is offering. Each exam is offered on a specific day AND time.

 

So, if your child wishes to take AP Latin and no school in your area is offering it, you may have a difficult time arranging an exam location. My teen took AP Statistics this year. No school in the area was very helpful. We were finally able to make arrangements for my teen to take it at a local homeschooling resource center who arranged a proctor for her. And, fortunately, we did not have to pay a fee for the proctor; we paid only for the cost of the test.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[TravelingChris]

My son got admitted to most of his colleges he applied to and ended up with a half tuition scholarship to the one he chose. None required SAT 2s. NOne of the ones I have been starting to research for my daughter require any either. MOst colleges don't and some don't if you take the ACT. I would check that first becuase depending on a college they may require one or more but not necessarily the ones you think.

[Musicmom]

We used Apologia Bio and Advanced Bio...he scored very well with all the material and then used the Princeton and Barrons SAT2 prep books...felt he was going to do great ...and only scored a 600. OK, he is a young 9th grader, but still....If he is not going to do really well on these tests, it would be much better for him NOT to do them...but then again, maybe the programs we used did not prepare him well. I don't want that to happen to him again...he was very disappointed in his scores...and felt like he failed.

 

I want his program SOLID...and I don't want to fail him here...

 

So any experienced help would be great... I am all ears...(or eyes as the case may be...)

Faithe

My ds had a very similar experience to yours with his first try at the Biology SAT II. He went in feeling well prepared, and ended up feeling like a failure (he was also a young 9th grader at the time.) It is true, as Brenda in MA stated above about Chemistry (sorry I don’t know how to multiquote), that a single high school level text or program won’t give you all the content you need to score high (at least in the sciences.) It is definitely better to have had AP content (and Apologia Adv Biology is just the physiology part, so those two are not AP.) Test experience helps too.

FWIW, here’s our SAT II saga, with both the programs and the test prep we used:

Biology: We did Apologia Bio, Campbell’s Bio for evolution topics, and Barron’s (old edition). Ds got a very average score. So we went back and did the following:

Skimmed through other biology texts (Holt, Glencoe and one other I forget) looking for additional content, and worked carefully through Princeton Review and SAT II Biology for Dummies, using all the practice tests. The “Dummies†book turned out to be the best prep book of all—not only hilarious, it had very good content and most importantly, taught the thinking skills necessary to avoid the tricks in the questions and reason through to the correct answer. Took the test again 4 months later and got excellent results. Only later did we learn that most people take the biology SAT II after having taken AP Biology!

Chemistry (having learned our lesson with Biology, except for knowing about AP):

We did Apologia Chemistry, skimmed through 3 other texts (Addison-Wesley, Holt, Prentice Hall) for extra content, and worked carefully through Princeton Review and Barron’s (new edition) using all practice tests. Ds got a nearly perfect score.

Physics (now with two SAT II experiences under our belt, and knowledge of AP):

We did both Apologia Physics and Advanced Physics in one year (the equivalent of AP Physics B). Skimmed through a couple college physics texts (Serway & Faughn, Cutnell & Johnson), did a little review and one practice test out of Princeton Review and Kaplan. This time ds found the text skimming and prep books went really fast--he already knew the vast majority of the content from Apologia. He breezed to an 800 on the test.

Math 2: Ds also came out of this one with an 800, but I think his math background and prior test experience is what made the difference. By the time he took this test he had done the PSAT (with very intensive study and practice beforehand), the ACT (again with intensive prep beforehand) and had just finished EPGY’s Precalculus course (very challenging.) I did get him 2 well-rated prep books, but he didn’t have much time and was a little “prepped out†at that point, so he didn’t do a lot in them—and I guess he didn’t really need to!

 

Hope something in there is helpful to you!

[Nan in Mass]

It was helpful to me! Thank you for writing it all out. Next childie may have to jump through more hoops. Sigh.

[Blue Hen]

So, You do both AP and SAT 2?? I guess that would make sense to get college credit for one and merit aid for the other...Is that why you did it that way??

 

DS was ready for college level science courses and a CC is not close to our location which was why we choose to go the AP route. When I started looking at the colleges DS was interested most listed SAT 2 Subject tests as an application requirement. Next I contacted these colleges and asked whether the SAT2 test requirement still applied if the child had 4s or 5s on AP tests. Several said no it wasn't but a few said it still was a requirement. Thus we signed DS up for the SAT2 subject tests.

 

My school system is just not coming forth with the info I need in order to secure a seat for AP exams...sigh...While my district is not homeschool hostile...it could not be confused with being homeschool friendly...sigh...

 

Would it be better, do you think, if I contacted the local Christian school and asked them to reserve a seat for him??

 

My public school district has what we hs'ers call is an anti-hs'ing policy but I contacted them this year to just see if DS could test there. The admin said "I know I will get my hand slapped if I allow a hs'er to test with our kids." I called elsewhere. I had the local charter school's AP Coordinator tell me that she wasn't sure whether the Dept Heads would permit a hs'er to test with their kids :confused1: I shared that a hs'er has their own school code so his test result would not be reported to them or as one of their students. She claimed to know this and did call me back a few days later to say that ds could test with them. Really I was shocked by these two schools reaction and I do not believe, or don't want to believe it is the norm.

 

 

The neighboring public school district, a low-income, high minority school welcomed my DS with open arms. He loved testing there. The room was quiet, just a few kids in the room (4 were the most testing with him and he took 4 tests this year), and he enjoyed the interactions with the kids. He also claimed that he learned many new words on bathroom breaks :lol: He also expressed his thanks again that we did not send him to a public school.

 

The previous year I contacted my local private school and DS tested with them. The kids were stuck in the library, 40 of them cramped at tables with folks walking around the library getting books. Very noisy and very distracting. He really did not want to test there again which is why I turned to another place this year.

 

You can contact the College Board for a list of area schools who adminster the AP tests and who the AP coordinator is for that school. Also if you visit PS and private schools websites they often times will list what AP courses they offer to their students although not always. It is easier to have your child join their kids in the AP testing room rather than try to find a school who will agree to test your child.

 

Most schools start thinking about AP testing around January and are interested in having you call them then or in February.

 

Carole

[Mommyfaithe]

My ds had a very similar experience to yours with his first try at the Biology SAT II. He went in feeling well prepared, and ended up feeling like a failure (he was also a young 9th grader at the time.) It is true, as Brenda in MA stated above about Chemistry (sorry I don’t know how to multiquote), that a single high school level text or program won’t give you all the content you need to score high (at least in the sciences.) It is definitely better to have had AP content (and Apologia Adv Biology is just the physiology part, so those two are not AP.) Test experience helps too.

FWIW, here’s our SAT II saga, with both the programs and the test prep we used:

Biology: We did Apologia Bio, Campbell’s Bio for evolution topics, and Barron’s (old edition). Ds got a very average score. So we went back and did the following:

Skimmed through other biology texts (Holt, Glencoe and one other I forget) looking for additional content, and worked carefully through Princeton Review and SAT II Biology for Dummies, using all the practice tests. The “Dummies†book turned out to be the best prep book of all—not only hilarious, it had very good content and most importantly, taught the thinking skills necessary to avoid the tricks in the questions and reason through to the correct answer. Took the test again 4 months later and got excellent results. Only later did we learn that most people take the biology SAT II after having taken AP Biology!

Chemistry (having learned our lesson with Biology, except for knowing about AP):

We did Apologia Chemistry, skimmed through 3 other texts (Addison-Wesley, Holt, Prentice Hall) for extra content, and worked carefully through Princeton Review and Barron’s (new edition) using all practice tests. Ds got a nearly perfect score.

Physics (now with two SAT II experiences under our belt, and knowledge of AP):

We did both Apologia Physics and Advanced Physics in one year (the equivalent of AP Physics B). Skimmed through a couple college physics texts (Serway & Faughn, Cutnell & Johnson), did a little review and one practice test out of Princeton Review and Kaplan. This time ds found the text skimming and prep books went really fast--he already knew the vast majority of the content from Apologia. He breezed to an 800 on the test.

Math 2: Ds also came out of this one with an 800, but I think his math background and prior test experience is what made the difference. By the time he took this test he had done the PSAT (with very intensive study and practice beforehand), the ACT (again with intensive prep beforehand) and had just finished EPGY’s Precalculus course (very challenging.) I did get him 2 well-rated prep books, but he didn’t have much time and was a little “prepped out†at that point, so he didn’t do a lot in them—and I guess he didn’t really need to!

 

Hope something in there is helpful to you!

 

This was extremely helpful. Thanks!

You have a very intelligent son there!

 

Oh,....what program did you use for Math...and at what point did you have him do the Math 2?? And why not Math 1???

 

Thanks Again,

Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

DS was ready for college level science courses and a CC is not close to our location which was why we choose to go the AP route. When I started looking at the colleges DS was interested most listed SAT 2 Subject tests as an application requirement. Next I contacted these colleges and asked whether the SAT2 test requirement still applied if the child had 4s or 5s on AP tests. Several said no it wasn't but a few said it still was a requirement. Thus we signed DS up for the SAT2 subject tests.

 

 

 

My public school district has what we hs'ers call is an anti-hs'ing policy but I contacted them this year to just see if DS could test there. The admin said "I know I will get my hand slapped if I allow a hs'er to test with our kids." I called elsewhere. I had the local charter school's AP Coordinator tell me that she wasn't sure whether the Dept Heads would permit a hs'er to test with their kids :confused1: I shared that a hs'er has their own school code so his test result would not be reported to them or as one of their students. She claimed to know this and did call me back a few days later to say that ds could test with them. Really I was shocked by these two schools reaction and I do not believe, or don't want to believe it is the norm.

 

 

The neighboring public school district, a low-income, high minority school welcomed my DS with open arms. He loved testing there. The room was quiet, just a few kids in the room (4 were the most testing with him and he took 4 tests this year), and he enjoyed the interactions with the kids. He also claimed that he learned many new words on bathroom breaks :lol: He also expressed his thanks again that we did not send him to a public school.

 

The previous year I contacted my local private school and DS tested with them. The kids were stuck in the library, 40 of them cramped at tables with folks walking around the library getting books. Very noisy and very distracting. He really did not want to test there again which is why I turned to another place this year.

 

You can contact the College Board for a list of area schools who adminster the AP tests and who the AP coordinator is for that school. Also if you visit PS and private schools websites they often times will list what AP courses they offer to their students although not always. It is easier to have your child join their kids in the AP testing room rather than try to find a school who will agree to test your child.

 

Most schools start thinking about AP testing around January and are interested in having you call them then or in February.

 

Carole

 

Thank You Carole!! This helped very much...Now at least I know I am not bound to our own local school district...phew!

There is a lot to digest...and it doesn't help that I keep hyper-ventilating every time I think about calling up the school....

 

~~Faithe

[Mommyfaithe]

Part of the challenge of arranging the AP exam is the fact that the exam your child is taking may not be amongst those that the school is offering. Each exam is offered on a specific day AND time.

 

So, if your child wishes to take AP Latin and no school in your area is offering it, you may have a difficult time arranging an exam location. My teen took AP Statistics this year. No school in the area was very helpful. We were finally able to make arrangements for my teen to take it at a local homeschooling resource center who arranged a proctor for her. And, fortunately, we did not have to pay a fee for the proctor; we paid only for the cost of the test.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

Thanks Kareni....I appreciaye the info.

Faithe

[Kathy in Richmond]

 

The previous year I contacted my local private school and DS tested with them. The kids were stuck in the library, 40 of them cramped at tables with folks walking around the library getting books. Very noisy and very distracting. He really did not want to test there again which is why I turned to another place this year.

 

 

Whoa, Carole, that sounds awful:tongue_smilie: I'm glad you've found a better place!

[Kathy in Richmond]

Thought I'd add my two cents on what worked here for SAT subject tests:001_smile::

 

Chemistry: My kids also take the chemistry subject test the year that they take AP Chemistry. It's more efficient to study just once as the May test is within a week of the AP test. Both kids studied regular high school chem for a year using Spectrum Chemistry followed by the Zumdahl text in their AP year. (They earned an 800 and a 770.)

 

Do make sure to take a look at a chem subject test review guide. The format of this test is weird; there are some very different kinds of questions...

 

Physics: One kid took this after a year of AP Physics B using Giancoli's book; the other kid did this in her AP Physics C year. The first method was actually preferable, since the Subject test in physics aligns with AP Physics B. Dd had to go back after Physics C was over and learn the "extra" topics from Giancoli before she could take the SAT test (both earned 800's).

 

Math II: We had the kids take this one the year they took Calculus, but they could have done it after pre-calc. They had strong math backgrounds and found this one to be easy (over the years they'd used Jacobs, old Dolciani's, and AoPS texts). Again, be sure to look at a study guide before taking this one - not every pre-calc course covers all the various topics on the test. ( both earned 800's).

 

English Lit: Only my dd took this one. I don't think any particular curriculum helped her (and she didn't use a review guide, either, but took it "cold"). Rather, a lifetime of WTM reading and thinking and discussing was her friend here! (she earned a 790).

 

Latin: This one requires proficiency in the technicalities of Latin grammar and an ability to read and answer questions on several Latin passages. My ds used Artes Latinae to learn grammar and my dd used Henle 1 and 2. They each had moved on to AP Latin Literature in the year they took the SAT subject test. (one earned 800 and one 730).

 

HTH,

~Kathy

Edited July 11, 2009 by Kathy in Richmond

[Musicmom]

It was helpful to me! Thank you for writing it all out. Next childie may have to jump through more hoops. Sigh.

 

You're very welcome! :001_smile:

 

Now my dd is entering 9th grade this fall and I'll be facing it all again! :tongue_smilie: Trying to decide if I'll do something different with bio and chem...

[Musicmom]

This was extremely helpful. Thanks!

You have a very intelligent son there!

 

Oh,....what program did you use for Math...and at what point did you have him do the Math 2?? And why not Math 1???

 

Thanks Again,

Faithe

 

You're welcome! (and thank you for the compliment :))

 

For math we used:

Grade 7 & 8:

Videotext Algebra along with Singapore’s NEM 1 and 2

Grade 9:

Videotext Geometry, modules A-C along with Singapore NEM 3

Grade 10:

VT Geometry module D only (long story) and ½ of NEM 4, followed by

EPGY Precalculus

(It was during this yr that ds took the PSAT first time, the ACT, and then Math 2 that June)

You choose Math 1 or Math 2 depending on how much math the student has taken prior to the test: Math 1 if they’ve had 3 years of math (Algebra 1, 2 and Geometry), Math 2 if they’ve had 4 years (the 4th being Precalculus.) So that’s why ds did Math 2 (you would not do both; it’s not a sequential thing.) The information I’ve read says neither test is harder than the other; it’s just the scope that’s different. And the colleges we’ve looked at seem to regard them equally.

 

HTH :)

[asta]

Anecdata:

 

I've seen exactly one example of a kid doing solely Apologia (eg: not adding in other source texts) and doing well w/ science tests, further science coursework.

 

I know people love it because they view it as so HS friendly, but that doesn't make it a solid program.

 

Just my .02

 

 

a

[Brenda in MA]

So Kathy --

 

What science sequence did your dc follow in middle/high school? I see that you had them doing 2 years of Chemistry. Did they also do an intro Physics course prior to either Giancoli or the Physics C material? Did either of them take Biology? Did they take more than one science course at a time?

 

I'm pondering what to do with my rising 8th grader for science through high school.

 

TIA,

Brenda

[Kathy in Richmond]

So Kathy --

 

What science sequence did your dc follow in middle/high school? I see that you had them doing 2 years of Chemistry. Did they also do an intro Physics course prior to either Giancoli or the Physics C material? Did either of them take Biology? Did they take more than one science course at a time?

 

I'm pondering what to do with my rising 8th grader for science through high school.

 

TIA,

Brenda

 

My ds did:

 

gr 7 & 8 - Rainbow Science

gr 9 - Chemistry (Spectrum)

gr 10 - Physics B (Giancoli - but no AP exam, just learning the material)

gr 11- AP Chemistry (Zumdahl) and

AP Physics C (Halliday et al)

gr 12 - AP Biology (Campbell)

 

My dd did / is doing:

 

gr 6 & 7 - Rainbow Science

gr 8 - Biology (Apologia)

gr 9 - Chemistry (Spectrum)

gr 10 - AP Chemistry (Zumdahl)

gr 11 - AP Physics C (Halliday et al)

gr 12 - AP Biology (Campbell)

 

It worked for us to use Physics B as a first physics course for ds because he was in calculus that year. My dd used Physics C as her first high school physics since she was already past calculus.

 

We're pretty much delight-directed in our science until the math is in place and the reading level is mature. Then we've found that we can jump in even at the higher levels.

 

Also, ds skipped regular high school bio; by grade 12 he was more than ready for AP bio (and there is no way I could have convinced him to do bio twice - he didn't like it and took the AP level so he could place out of his college's bio requirement;)). He was able to double up on AP science in his junior year because he's already had a great grounding in basic chemistry and physics (he alternated days between physics and chem that year).

 

hth,

~Kathy

[Brenda in MA]

Hi Kathy,

 

This is very helpful, thanks. My rising 8th grader has just finished Rainbow Science (& Algebra 1), and I was thinking of doing a year of Conceptual Physics for 8th and then going from there. I've also been toying with the idea of having him do Apologia Biology.

 

I'll have to see how he does and talk to him. It might make sense for him to skip/postpone Biology and focus on Chemistry & Physics earlier. Maybe I'll have him do Bio later on at the Community College instead of at home.

 

I guess I still have a little time to decide....

 

Thanks for sharing,

Brenda

[Laura in CA]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but this is a related question --

 

My son only used the Apologia Chem (not the advanced course), and it only covered about 2/3 of the material on the SAT2 Chem exam. Even after a couple of weeks of heavy prep and me tutoring him on the stuff he didn't cover in the course, he only scored a 610. I was very disappointed. Hence the change in curriculum to Giancoli for Physics.

 

My sons (12 & 14) will be studying Apologia Bio this coming year. We (in our coop) were thinking of having the kids study supplemental texts as time allows, and take the SAT Subject Test in May. After reading this thread I'm thinking they won't be well prepared, and maybe they shouldn't take it?

 

BUT . . . I don't see my boys taking AP bio or advanced bio later (they are much more interested in chem, physics, computers), AND I'm thinking that -- if we don't *have* to send the score to colleges, and considering that they will be at the start of their high-school career when they take it, with plenty of time for much better scores on chem & physics Subject Tests -- it might be a valuable opportunity to gain experience taking these kinds of tests. As Holly said, the kids learned how long an hour is, etc.! My kids have both taken the regular SAT as part of a talent search, but this will be a whole different experience.

 

So, a question for Brenda, Kathy, musicmom, or anyone else who knows -- I've heard (from one of Kathy's posts) you can pick which SAT Subject Test scores to send, even from the same test date. But would a college ever say "send all *subject test* scores"? In this thread

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102464

 

Kathy posted a very helpful link showing which colleges will ask for *all* SAT Reasoning Test scores. I'm wondering if the same would hold true for the subject tests . . . I hope my question is clear! I guess I'm asking, should my kids go ahead and take the biology subject test this May, even though I *know* they won't get a high score, just for practice? (The talent-search SAT was given in small classrooms with fellow junior-high kids; these would be at an unfamiliar high school with "big kids," so I'm thinking just getting used to the environment might be a good tradeoff for a low score . . . )

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! I have learned a TON from this thread, and am printing it out for future reference. Thanks, as always!!

 

~Laura

Edited July 14, 2009 by Laura in CA

[Kathy in Richmond]

Hi Laura,

 

Good questions -

 

Just for fun, I went over to my dd's College Board account and did an experiment. I chose a college that requires all SAT reasoning scores to be sent and tried to create a score report to send to that college. My daughter has 2 SAT Reasoning score reports and 5 individuals SAT Subject tests. The system reminded me to include both Reasoning test score reports, but when I got to dd's Subject Test scores. I just got a wishy-washy message that

 

"Each college and scholarship program may have different score-reporting requirements for SAT Subject Test scores. Please contact the individual college or scholarship program for information about its use of SAT Subject Test scores."

 

Oh well!

 

Anyway, what grades will your boys be in? If they are below grade 9, you're in luck. Middle schools scores are erased at the end of the school year unless the parent asks the College Board that they be saved. Sort of a score choice of its own :-)

 

~Kathy

[Laura in CA]

Thanks, Kathy, for doing that "experiment"! My younger son will be in 8th grade, so I guess for him it's a no-brainer. I'll have to think about my older son (9th grade next year) . . . although he's a more "deliberate" test-taker and could probably use the practice more . . .

 

At any rate, that's very good to know (about each college having its own policy). I may ask the admissions director at Caltech what he recommends. I think I told you we attended a talk he gave last fall, and he was very approachable and seemed to really look at the applicants as *kids* -- i.e., real people who are growing up and going through adolescence. For example, one boy said he'd been sick most of 10th grade and his grades had suffered -- how would that be seen by the admissions folks? And the director (can't remember his name!) said there's a trend they often see with young men (almost never with young women, he said!), where 9th grade is *not* stellar; by 10th grade they've picked up some steam; and by 11th grade they're focused and on track. That was very reassuring to hear ;-)

 

Thanks, as always, Kathy!

~Laura

[Guest Barb B]

Hi, I am new here and have been following this thread!

 

Ds took sat physics this year after saxon physics. We decided to have him take it based on score choice. I hope we don't regret this because his score was disappointing (thankfully his SAT reasoning test was good). We were fine with that thinking that this score wouldn't have to be sent. Anyway, it seems so confusing because some of the info on score choice at college board seems to relate to SAT reasoning test and I am left guessing about the subject tests. The following I found and college board (don't remember where - a frequently asked question page somewhere):

 

Colleges cannot "opt out of" or "reject" Score Choice. Score Choice is a feature available to students. Colleges set their own policies and practices regarding the use of test scores. The College Board does not release SAT test scores without student consent. This continues under Score Choice. Colleges, universities, and scholarship programs will receive the scores applicants send to them.

 

So, right or wrong, we will try our best to not send this particular score! Thankfully, this was the only test on that date.

 

Thank for all your post! I love this board and glad I finally joined!

 

Barb

 

PS I do like saxon but maybe won't use saxon physics with other dc! Ds is doing physics this year using Giancoli's Physics: Principles with applications. After some practice tests he will decide if he will tackle the SAT Physics beast again!

[Kathy in Richmond]

@Barb - Welcome! The more the merrier here - it helps to combine forces in figuring out all this college stuff:001_smile:

 

@Laura - I did a little more sleuthing and found this on Yale's site:

 

(Yale is not a school dd is interested in, but it's one of those requiring all SAT Reasoning test scores to be sent):

 

Yale requires results from all of the SAT I and SAT II tests or all of the ACT tests you have taken. If you choose to fulfill our testing requirement with SAT scores, then it is not necessary to send any scores from the ACT, even if you have taken the ACT. And if you choose to fulfill the requirement using the ACT, you do not need to send us any SAT scores, unless you wish.

However, and this is important, if you elect to use the SAT scores, you must report all scores from all SAT exams (both SAT I and SAT II) that you have taken. If you elect to use ACT scores, you must report all scores from all ACT exams you have taken. And if you choose to use a combination of SAT and ACT results, we require that you report all scores from both agencies.

 

So it seems that some colleges WILL require all Subject test scores to be sent!

 

That said, I don't think that one low score is going to make a student an automatic reject. The colleges are looking for reasons to admit, not deny, your student. The adcoms I've talked to say they look at the whole application.

 

We had a bit of a snafu with my ds's SAT Subject test score reporting a few years back when he applied to college. He'd already taken five subject tests by the fall of his senior year when U Michigan told him they wanted a sixth test in history. Since he was in the running for a good scholarship there, he bit the bullet. First, however, we sent his score report to all the other colleges, knowing that the history score was likely to be lowish (only US history was offered in time to make Michigan's deadline, and he hadn't studied it since 9th grade). Our plan was to then send the new score report with all six subject scores to Michigan only. But the wonderful College Board somehow messed up. All the scores, including a 650 in history, were sent to all the colleges! It didn't hurt him in the least - he was accepted everywhere, including Caltech.

 

So IMHO I wouldn't worry too much. The colleges are going to look at everything, and they don't expect perfection (especially in 9th grade boys:lol:)

 

~Kathy

[asta]

I'm sorry, but colleges and universities don't have access to my kid's scores unless I give them access. How are they to know what tests my kid took? CB doesn't send them a list that says "well, he took 5 tests, but we're only sending you 3 of them."

 

I think Yale is full of it; it sounds as if they are trying to scare people into giving more information than they are entitled to.

 

 

a

[Nan in Mass]

The problem is that you have to sign something on the application saying that all the information is complete and correct (or something like that). At least, that was something we ran into.

 

-Nan

[Guest Barb B]

Yes, Some colleges will want you to be on your honor and report all scores. That said, I still wouldn't send my ds low physics SAT score. At the time he took the test we naively thought that score choice was exactly what it said - that we could decide which scores to send out. So, he took the test knowing it would be low and knowing he was going to take a harder physics class this coming year in his Junior year (Ap - but I guess I will call it honors or something). He felt it would be even better then practice tests. That way he would have taken it once and could study even more effectively the second time around. If we had known that some colleges want all test scores we never would have signed him up for this physics tests! So, I wouldn't feel guiltly not sending this score.

 

As I found on the college board site - colleges cannot opt out of score choice and college board will not send out scores without the student's consent. To me that says to colleges that they can ask for all scores but that doesn't mean they will get it.

 

Also, some college (like yale - which is not a school we are applying to) say they want all SAT I and II scores. Some, like Texas A & M (which we are interested in) say they want all SAT I scores but don't really mention the subject test scores. Since Texas A & M uses SAT subject scores for placement purposes and not admission I wouldn't feel bad for not sending our low SAT subject score.

 

Barb

Edited July 15, 2009 by Barb B

[Guest Barb B]

Kathy, Oh my a 650 in history in good imo! I don't think a 650 would hurt at all! That is a good score!

 

Asta, I agree whole heartedly. Colleges won't know how many they took.

 

Nan, I would sign something that asked if all information was complete, because imo it would be complete - since we never would have taken this one test if it hadn't been for the misleading score choice option. In other woulds if there wasn't score choice and all score were sent - we would have not taken this one test!

 

 

Barb

Edited July 15, 2009 by Barb B

[Nan in Mass]

: ) Barb, I don't want you to think I was critisizing or anything. I just wanted to warn people about the signature.

[Guest Barb B]

Nan, Sorry for making seem like offense was taken - non was. I was trying to say that it all depends on each situation. I guess my offense is taken at this whole system - tests, college requirements. . . especially for us homeschoolers! I hate this whole testing stuff!

 

Barb

[Nan in Mass]

Don't worry. I was pretty sure you hadn't. I just wanted to make absolutely sure. : )

[Laura in CA]

I posted on another SAT II thread (I think -- I'm getting confused!) that yes, this testing could be seen as annoying, especially when colleges ask more from homeschoolers, but it really IS a nice way to validate mommy grades (and a $9 one-hour test is - for us - a much better value, in terms of $$ AND time, than CC courses), and also I did a ton of tests myself back in the 1970s/80s because I applied to selective (highly selective? elite? - I don't know the lingo) colleges such as Stanford and Caltech -- I took the PSAT, SAT, APs, and at *least* three SAT Subject Tests, which were required for some schools and "highly recommended" for the others ( = take them if you want to be a competitive candidate for both admission and aid). So I don't see it as a burden for my kids; more an opportunity (of course it helps that they're weird like me and kinda like taking tests, haha).

 

 

@Laura - I did a little more sleuthing and found this on Yale's site:

 

. . . if you elect to use the SAT scores, you must report all scores from all SAT exams (both SAT I and SAT II) that you have taken.

So it seems that some colleges WILL require all Subject test scores to be sent!

 

That said, I don't think that one low score is going to make a student an automatic reject. The colleges are looking for reasons to admit, not deny, your student. The adcoms I've talked to say they look at the whole application.

 

We had a bit of a snafu with my ds's SAT Subject test score reporting a few years back when he applied to college. . . . All the scores, including a 650 in history, were sent to all the colleges! It didn't hurt him in the least - he was accepted everywhere, including Caltech.

 

So IMHO I wouldn't worry too much. The colleges are going to look at everything, and they don't expect perfection (especially in 9th grade boys:lol:)

 

~Kathy

 

Thanks a ton, Kathy! It's good to know that some colleges will ask for all scores . . . but you're right, they know what 9th grade boys are like ;-)

I'm glad it worked out for your son despite the College Board's mixup. Congratulations on the Caltech acceptance!

 

Kathy - I have a question for you but I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll try to PM you (I've never done that before!).

 

Thanks to everyone for all the info & advice!

 

~Laura

[Gwen in VA]

So I don't see it as a burden for my kids; more an opportunity (of course it helps that they're weird like me and kinda like taking tests, haha

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Guest Barb B]

Well, it really is only the select colleges that seem to require this testing to validate mommy grades! Most use SAT II like AP and CLEP - for placement or rather to place out of classes not for admission purpuses.

 

Why not take them: 1. you might be required by the college to provide all your scores. So you would have to lie if you didn't want to send a lower score. 2. they take lots of time to prep for. They really test how well you can take an SAT test and not as much content as you think. The SAT tests are just different from any final exam you would find in a class. This is because they call them Reasoning Tests. But it comes out as being questions that are tricky - trying to trick you alot. It is hard to explain. Anyway DS spent TONS of time prepping for SAT I (he took it 2 x's this year) and one SAT II. It was annoying because I knew all the worthwhile things he could have been doing!

 

So, unless you are going for those select colleges (Ivy leguae) then there really is no reason to take them.

 

I stated in the other SAT thread (it is getting confusing with 2!) that colleges in texas by law cann't ask anything more of homeschoolers! Most require a transcript and SAT I or ACT and nothing else! Homeschoolers can't be descriminated against here by having additional requirements. Most homeschoolers I know here that are applying to texas colleges only take the SAT I.

 

Barb

[readwithem]

 

Why not take them: 1. you might be required by the college to provide all your scores. So you would have to lie if you didn't want to send a lower score. 2. they take lots of time to prep for. They really test how well you can take an SAT test and not as much content as you think. The SAT tests are just different from any final exam you would find in a class. This is because they call them Reasoning Tests. But it comes out as being questions that are tricky - trying to trick you alot. It is hard to explain. Anyway DS spent TONS of time prepping for SAT I (he took it 2 x's this year) and one SAT II. It was annoying because I knew all the worthwhile things he could have been doing!

 

 

 

I just wanted to comment on this part of your post, my dd found her studying for the subject tests helped to solidify the studying she had done previously in those subjects. So she saw it as a sort of end of the year review. YMMV as always :)

[Guest Barb B]

That is true. It was a good review of physics. I guess I meant there was a certain amount of extra prep just related to the types of questions asked. It might be that this is really just a problem with the physics test given the nature of the subject and the 1 hour time allotment the questions were very different not math oriented at all (more difficult for my math oriented son who would rather have a very long math problem! very few questions on the physics test needed any math - very strange given the subject physics!).

 

Barb

[Kathy in Richmond]

I posted on another SAT II thread (I think -- I'm getting confused!) that yes, this testing could be seen as annoying, especially when colleges ask more from homeschoolers, but it really IS a nice way to validate mommy grades (and a $9 one-hour test is - for us - a much better value, in terms of $$ AND time, than CC courses), and also I did a ton of tests myself back in the 1970s/80s because I applied to selective (highly selective? elite? - I don't know the lingo) colleges such as Stanford and Caltech -- I took the PSAT, SAT, APs, and at *least* three SAT Subject Tests, which were required for some schools and "highly recommended" for the others ( = take them if you want to be a competitive candidate for both admission and aid). So I don't see it as a burden for my kids; more an opportunity (of course it helps that they're weird like me and kinda like taking tests, haha).

 

Weren't they called Achievement Tests back then? I remember going in on a Saturday in the '70s and writing three of them in a row. No study guides back then, though:).

 

And I totally agree about the value of the testing. My kids are lucky to be good testers (and they like taking the tests; kinda weird here, too!), and the cost is still relatively small for the Subject testing. I've talked to many adcoms at selective colleges (one child already attending college and the other getting ready to apply in the fall).

 

They have repeatedly told me they are looking for two things in homeschooled applicants: a rigorous course schedule and outside verification of mommy grades.

 

Subject tests are one way to provide these; but, of course, they are but one of many ways. Years ago, when my ds was starting the process, I read a useful piece of advice: homeschoolers who want to go to a selective college should have about eight "data points". These data points could be college/CC class grades, online coursework, summer programs, or testing results (sat, act, ap, subject tests). In our case the testing made more sense, especially since we didn't do many outside classes. Here in my county in VA, the AP testing is totally free, but CC classes cost $:)

 

 

Kathy - I have a question for you but I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll try to PM you (I've never done that before!).

 

 

Just saw it in my mailbox - will be on it soon!

 

~Kathy

[Kathy in Richmond]

I just wanted to comment on this part of your post, my dd found her studying for the subject tests helped to solidify the studying she had done previously in those subjects. So she saw it as a sort of end of the year review. YMMV as always :)

 

:iagree:

[Kathy in Richmond]

That is true. It was a good review of physics. I guess I meant there was a certain amount of extra prep just related to the types of questions asked. It might be that this is really just a problem with the physics test given the nature of the subject and the 1 hour time allotment the questions were very different not math oriented at all (more difficult for my math oriented son who would rather have a very long math problem! very few questions on the physics test needed any math - very strange given the subject physics!).

 

Barb

 

Yes, the Subject tests are a different animal from regular homework problems in a class like physics. They tend to test quick conceptual understanding instead of mathematical computation. The main practice my kids need to succeed on these (after a general review, of course) is developing their speed. This is where the practice guides are extremely useful - but some are better than others. I've always had to ask around or scour the internet to find which guides are best for each test, and then I take the kids to Barnes & Noble to get their input, too, on which guide they'd actually use! We try to limit the actual prep time to the few weeks before the exam. I'd much rather that they had a rich experience in the actual course than to spend most of the year prepping. And, this seems to bring them better scores - they're the kinds of kids who do best with not-too-much focus on the exam (I think it just makes them a little nervous to focus too much on the test).

 

Maybe your son would prefer the AP test in Physics B? It covers the same material as the SAT II, but the free-response half of the exam is more like typical physics homework. He can look at some samples here.

 

~Kathy

Edited July 16, 2009 by Kathy in Richmond

[Mama Lynx]

 

So, unless you are going for those select colleges (Ivy leguae) then there really is no reason to take them.

 

 

 

 

This is simply not true. None of the colleges we are looking at are ivy league, and nearly all of them require or "strongly recommend" SAT II tests.