Snickerdoodle Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 We are new to the math drill worksheets. I am thinking of 100 problems of single column 0-9 addition. This will be written, not done orally. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkgumby Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 What age/grades are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Sorry, he is beginning 3rd grade. OK, I gave him 5 minutes today. He did not finish but it was a very good lesson about working under pressure and learning that emotion does not get math done. Still curious for how much time people generally give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Here's how I handle drills... Our drills are always five minutes long. Attention spans start to wander too much beyond five minutes. If a drill sheet was too much for a child, I would divide the sheet in half, possibly even four drills if you are using a program designed for older students for your young schoolers. Over time their abilities will increase. (I use the Saxon Math drill sheets, which are age appropriate and varied.) HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Sorry, he is beginning 3rd grade. OK, I gave him 5 minutes today. He did not finish but it was a very good lesson about working under pressure and learning that emotion does not get math done. Still curious for how much time people generally give. I'd be careful because "working under pressure" leads a great many children to really hate math. How many threads have there been here about stressed out children being given timed tests and math drills, and bewildered parents wondering why their child (who once seemed to love math) now hating it? Many dozens. I'd re-think this. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Actually, doing the drill today showed him that after the timer went off, nothing bad happened. I also had him take note that crying and fretting were obstacles to getting the math done. I also discussed with him that the point of the drill was not to get the whole worksheet done or die, but to just do the best he can. He can also take note of any improvement on the amount of problems he can get done over a period of weeks. Unfortunately, I believe the drills to be necessary at this time. Right now we are getting bogged down during math time. While he seems to understand all the concepts during math time, the drudge of doing the simple calculations are weighing down on him causing him to hate doing the math. We have used a variety of tricks, manipulatives, cheat sheets to help him, but even the drudge of using those makes him fret. He is at at time in his math career where knowing the simple facts cold will help a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Actually, doing the drill today showed him that after the timer went off, nothing bad happened. I also had him take note that crying and fretting were obstacles to getting the math done. I also discussed with him that the point of the drill was not to get the whole worksheet done or die, but to just do the best he can. He can also take note of any improvement on the amount of problems he can get done over a period of weeks. Unfortunately, I believe the drills to be necessary at this time. Right now we are getting bogged down during math time. While he seems to understand all the concepts during math time, the drudge of doing the simple calculations are weighing down on him causing him to hate doing the math. We have used a variety of tricks, manipulatives, cheat sheets to help him, but even the drudge of using those makes him fret. He is at at time in his math career where knowing the simple facts cold will help a lot. Crying and fretting are obstacles to learning math (or learning anything really). Stress and anxiety are also major obstacles. Have you tried the Right Start games? These are a great way of cementing the low-level retention of "math facts" in a fun way. It's a simple way to get these simple facts down cold, without crying, anxiety, or frustration. Instead the child has a few laughs and smiles, maybe even beats Mom or Dad in a game. And learns a lot more in this spirit of fun that they would ever learn though what they consider drudgery. Just a thought. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Cribbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Cribbage. And does playing games make him cry? I realize I don't know how to play cribbage. Maybe it could :D. I do know I read many (many) posts on this forum from people I'd grown to trust on these matters who spoke to how effectively the Right Start Games cemented "math facts". So I got the set. And am astounded at how successful this approach has been thus far. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abbeyej Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I'm big on math drills, but not big on arbitrary time limits. I much prefer just having a child do them every day, and encouraging them to get through the material quickly, so it'll be over. If timing is necessary, there are two techniques I like: Either have a child copy out the numbers 1-100 on a sheet of paper and time that. That becomes the target time for completing 100 problems (since that is the speed at which the child can write, and you want them to do the math problems without stopping to *think*). *Or* (and this is my preferred method), surreptitiously time the child while they do the page (and if they start to get distracted, verbally encourage or direct them back to the page). After that, they work to "beat" each subsequent time. Also, if you haven't done drill sheets in the past, you might start with 20 problems. After a week or two, when the child is writing answers quickly, bump them up to 25 problems. Gradually work up to greater and greater quantities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Snickerdoodle, I'm with you that some drill would help, but there are ways to do it to eliminate the struggles you're having. Why are you doing them orally? You might want to make sure you're working with his best learning style. If he's a kinesthetic learner, do the drill with a ball or stair jumping. If he's a visual learner, you give him tables and stop drilling. That sort of thing. And I totally agree with the others that the tears are a sign to back off and go at it a different way. If you use a timer, set a goal that he CAN MEET easily, so he's always a success. If it's written, you just change to a red pencil when the timer goes off and let him keep writing, no stigma or anything. You want to get the same thing done but change the dynamic and the psychology. You're going to have enough years later, when the hormones are flying and he's a preteen, to buckle down, do it anyway, and be tough. I'd be extra-gentle, loving, and FUN now. No tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narrow Gate Academy Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) I use a set of math drill times that I found at Logos school as guidelines. The standard for the end of 2nd grade for addition is 100 problems in 5 minutes, and for subtraction 100 problems in 6 minutes. Use the link above to see the whole chart. HTH Edited June 29, 2009 by Narrow Gate Academy clarification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 We used to do Japanese style ‘kuku’ for multiplication facts, but now 99% of facts practice is done with a Nintendo DS and ‘Personal Math Trainer’game module. Daily test takes around 5-15 minutes. We do play various games or exercises as they come up in her Japanese Math or Singapore text book lessons. Some of these are aimed toward facts practicing, harder to tell how much time they take up but much more than the DS does. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfinbaby Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hijacking - sorry:) Spy Car - About the Right Start math games. Are you really astounded by the RS math games? I'm sincerely asking. I've seen RS talked about but didn't want to get into it but I did stop by their booth at a fair yesterday. I familiarized myself with it a little bit. I'm interested in their use of the abacus. What's so impressive about the games? What age range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Under 5 minutes. We give the same sheet (well, a fresh new one) day in and day out until the student gets it under 5 minutes. At 5 minutes, pencils down. Do not need to finish the page. We do this for 10 sheets each operations +1 +2 +1 ...+10 -1 -2 -1 ... -10 x1 x2 x3 ... x10 /1 /2 /3 ... /10 Once those 40 sheets are completed each in under 5 minutes, then just for good measure, do a second round, each of the 40 sheets in under 5 minutes. And that constitutes "knowing the Math Facts" :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagira Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 We'll be doing Calculadder next year which claims the student will work down to two minutes a sheet. In the beginning I'm assuming the student will not be able to complete the sheet in two minutes. As the student gets proficient and knows the sums, he will be doing them in two-five minutes. When he does, he can move on to the next sheet. I think it should take us six minutes the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Hijacking - sorry:) Spy Car - About the Right Start math games. Are you really astounded by the RS math games? I'm sincerely asking. I've seen RS talked about but didn't want to get into it but I did stop by their booth at a fair yesterday. I familiarized myself with it a little bit. I'm interested in their use of the abacus. What's so impressive about the games? What age range? Yes, I am. We are only at the beginning. My son will be 5 in about two weeks. Most of our "math" has been conceptual. Not geared to "rote memorization" but things such as understanding how 7 + 6 can be "recomposed" into 7 +3 (10) and 3. And the like. making sure he understand how numbers work and things such a place value have been of prime importance to me. As well as exposure to "math" that makes him think critically. That said. I recognize learning ones math facts (after having conceptual understanding at least in good measure) is a handy and useful skill. So after 3 games of "Go to the Dump" I saw the "pairs" that make "ten" go from something he might be able to work-out, to instantly retrievable "facts". We didn't stop at 3 games of "Go to the Dump" (he loved it) but the job was done. Currently we are playing addition war where two digit addition (0-9, or 1-9) is utilized. If anything I want to make sure these "math facts" are not simply "memorized" but can also be "explained" conceptually (so we go that outside the games). I can't say he has all the combos cold. We haven't played that many rounds. But the amount of "retention" that comes with each round impresses me greatly. And we've only scratched the surface of the games, which run though addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, time, money and fractions. I can tell you my wife, MIL, and other family members have been slack-jawed to see how quickly my son has picked up "math facts" from playing the games. And while this "memorization" aspect of his math education is not my top priority, I too am impressed how well these games substitute for "drill". Children are obviously of different temperaments. My son I believe would shut down under a regime of "drill and kill". These RS games were not my discovery. I learned about them here on the WTM reading threads by parents who were having great success with these games and feeling like they were feeding rater than detracting form their children's enjoyment of math. And on a practical level, that the game worked better than "drill". Thus far, I'm very glad I jumped on board. And I look forward to many years of utility and fun. And I think children learn better in a spirit of "fun". And I'm sure even "drill" could be made fun. But done wrong I think it can be very counter productive. And I've read too many posts (most by parents following Saxon methods) about math loving kids turning into math hating kids after being subject to timed drills and tests. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclopez Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I have one ds who HATES the buzzer going off - definite tears. BUT, you do want them to work quickly. I have done a couple of things: 1. I set the timer to time him - no buzzer goes off. We record his time and strive for reduced time the next session or two. (use timer as stop watch and he has to beat himself). 2. With the saxon drill sheets sometimes - I write a large message on the back ("You can have a piece of gum" or "4 chocolate chips" or You get a math whiz star today" or "Jump on your pogo stick for 5 minutes"). I then cut up the sheet in 4 puzzle pieces. He gets one piece, races to finish and gets the next piece from me. When he has completed all the pieces, he gets the treat - and man, does he move fast! We just played our first game of RS math games. I finally invested in it after going back and forth. I really think it was a good investment - especially with 4 boys. My oldest can play with them and the 2 middle ones are solidifying their facts. It also has fraction games, clock, etc. It has a DVD that I will watch to get familiar with the games. I really do think it was worth it - so far. My boys just HATE to do drill. I don't want them to HATE math. I think this exposure with the facts will really help solidify them in their little brains - especially since they are using them in a much more pleasant experience. But, don't get me wrong, drill is VERY necessary. I'm hoping the games will just make them be more successful with the drill. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
specialmama Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (and this is my preferred method), surreptitiously time the child while they do the page (and if they start to get distracted, verbally encourage or direct them back to the page). After that, they work to "beat" each subsequent time. This is what we do. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedearly Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I give a page of math facts and a page of clocks downloaded. As she progressed, the font got smaller. She can finish both of those off quickly now at 8 pt. We also will do some oral recitation. I am not expecting her to have these down cold unto somewhere in 4th grade (according to the state) or 2 years from now. Something snapped in my older 6 kids that when they hit 9-10 yrs, they knew them. My home schooling advisor says this is common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickerdoodle Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks so much for the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy in Indy Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Does "sheet 1" only have the +1 facts? "sheet 2" has only the +2 facts? How many facts on each sheet? Are the facts all mixed around: 4+1, 8+1, 2+1, 1+3,...? Do you practice these facts (using counters or games or flash cards), or do they learn them by repeatedly doing the drill sheet? Thanks! Cindy in Indy Under 5 minutes.We give the same sheet (well, a fresh new one) day in and day out until the student gets it under 5 minutes. At 5 minutes, pencils down. Do not need to finish the page. We do this for 10 sheets each operations +1 +2 +1 ...+10 -1 -2 -1 ... -10 x1 x2 x3 ... x10 /1 /2 /3 ... /10 Once those 40 sheets are completed each in under 5 minutes, then just for good measure, do a second round, each of the 40 sheets in under 5 minutes. And that constitutes "knowing the Math Facts" :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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