What math level is your 8th grader?

[Quiver0f10]

X-post from curriculm board.

 

My son will turn 13 in July and enter 8th in the fall. He finished CD pre-algebra this year but didn't do wonderful with it. I am not sure if it was his attitude or if he was not yet mature enough for the algebra concepts. I am trying to decide if I should have him repeat pre-algebra in 8th or move into Alg I.

 

So, my long winded question is what math will or did your 8th grader use?

 

Thanks!

[Pamela H in Texas]

If you think he might do well with repeating pre-algebra, then that is what you should do. Only if you are SURE he should do Algebra I, should he.

 

My son started Algebra (after 2 separate pre-algebra programs) in 8th grade. He did okay (88 average), but I thought "something" was amiss. I put him in a program called Math Rescue before going back to Algebra I. Now he's much more confident. He also likes his math program (systemath.com). And in the end, because of how the program works, he doesn't end up behind. He'll finish Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II before the end of 10th grade.

 

Unless you and he are CONFIDENT, don't move on.

[Beth in Central TX]

I thinks it's wise to look at the maturity level and math aptitude of the student before starting Algebra I. My oldest will be in 8th grade next year, and I have him scheduled to start Algebra I. Math is his favorite subject, and he wants to take a Calculus course before he goes to college. My middle son will be in 7th grade next year. Math is not his strong subject, so he won't begin Algebra I until 9th grade.

 

Over my 6 years of homeschooling, I have decided that earlier it not always better for my sons. I want them to really understand not only what their doing, but why their doing it too. I have pushed back our math and logic series to make sure that they are tackling these subjects at the appropriate age for maximum learning and retention. This has been a huge paradigm shift for me, but I think it will be extremely beneficial to our homeschool in the long run.

 

HTH!

[Miss Marple]

I found Life of Fred Beginning Algebra to be good for my youngest. He did LOF BA in 7th and began Advanced Algebra (LOF) toward the end of the year. He will finish LOF by about Christmas (8th grade). I think maturity plays a big role in math. While my son is very math adept, he is still a silly little boy. LOF worked well for him. I think he would have floundered with a more traditional textbook style program. We will continue 8th grade math using MUS geometry (or possibly Jacob's).

 

I intend to have him review his algebra in 9th/10th grade just to make sure he retained what he learned this past year. We will use something more traditional (probably Lial's) at that time. He should be mature enough for the more standard program.

[Susan C.]

We had the exact same problem in 8th grade with our son, and even used the same math as you! Got great grades, but took 3 hrs. a day, and he was really pushing hard to get it. But not retaining very well. But since he was "smart", we went ahead and did video text algebra. Again, he took forever to do it, still got great grades, but something wasn't right. Went on to CD geometry, that went fine, but still a little slow (he has always done better with geometry/trig than algebra). Then tried CD Algebra 2, took 4-5 hours a day, he even started drinking several cups of coffee, tried to plow through it, and "hit the wall." At this point, we had yet to reach 6 classes a school year, we were doing 4.... He was supposedly in 11th grade, but was very short on credits, and burned out. He has an August birthday, so was very young for his grade. I moved him over to BJUP Algebra 2 that a friend loaned. He did alright for a while, enjoyed the much easier problems, and the extra time to explain the concepts. But, again, he stopped and couldn't go further. I called BJUP, they let me speak with one of the authors of the math text. While talking, we discussed his young age, that he was a pretty smart kid, but something wasn't right. At the same time, we both said we should just put the math book away (it was March), and start Algebra 2 the next year. I took it one step further. I rearranged his grade level. I made that year 10th, backed up all previous years, and made sure I made the new 11th grade not difficult. He said if we did music and art, he would go for it, and that he didn't feel ready to start college in a year. It was the best decision we could have made! That year, he said it was the first time that he felt his curriculum "fit" him, and he really enjoyed his music and art. I even stepped back the science and let him do BJUP Earth Science (it is 8th grade, but acceptable for high school).

 

Step ahead to him starting college. He did place into calculus (did precalc in 12th grade). But since his pace is slow, he barely eeeked out a C first semester. Still, he tried the calculus 2. This time he failed. He is having to do summer school to save his scholarship. But every other class he takes in non math and non science, he gets As, even the condensed summer ones! Its looking like we have a liberal arts guy, he is interested in English and Psychology, and maybe business. His SAT scores were WAY higher in critical reading and writing than in math.

 

Whether your son takes precalc or calc in 12th grade, look at his speed, how fast he gets it, and if he needs extra time a lot, if so, start his college math at college algebra or precalc no matter how great he does on the placement test!

 

For next year, my suggestion for you would be BJUP PreAlgebra (or Teaching Textbooks if you like it better, but it is easier than BJUP). My daughter did that, it is great, not quite as hard (the CD is a college text and the hardest prealgebra program I saw). She moved effortlessly to BJUP Algebra 1 with DVDs (didn't use DVDs for PreAlgebra). It will probably be easy for your son, but he will get his confidence back and beef up his basic math skills.

 

Susan

 

So, you can push the math too hard. I went to a prep school in the area for advice (a friend's husband). He told me to never do math even a little above level. I told him that our son was between regular and advanced and he said if he were at that school, they would put him in regular.

[Susan C.]

Whoa, just saw my post and it rearranged itself, sorry, don't know how that happened, but I have had everyone in the house talk to me while I wrote that! Isn't that how it goes!

[Beth in Central TX]

Hi Karen,

 

Here is the schedule I will follow for my oldest:

 

8th: Modern Algebra I

9th: Modern Geometry

10th: Modern Algebra II & Trig

11th: Modern Intro Analysis

12th: Calculus of a Single Variable

 

If I started Algebra in 9th grade, I would not make through the Dolciani series that I have planned as well as the Calculus book. Therefore, in our homeschool, if we want to make it to Calculus, we need to start Algebra I in 8th grade.

 

I'm sure you have a different schedule since you will start Algebra in 9th grade and still make it to Calculus. That's one of the advantages of homeschooling!

 

Take care,

~Beth

[Lori D.]

Well, Jean, I can only speak out of our experience, as I have a child at each extreme of the "learning-math-continuum. Older DS does math easily, and he did Algebra in 8th grade (age 14). He was ready for it and did well in it. But notice, he is also an older student (we held him back before starting him in kindergarten).

 

Younger son really struggles with abstract math concepts (slight dyslexia; visual spatial learner). In 8th grade (age 13/14) he did MUS pre-algebra (spine) and Singapore 6A/B (supplement), and did fine; this year (9th grade, age 14/15) he is doing Jacobs Algebra and we have hit some *serious* rough patches. We've had to do quite a bit of it together. In solving LONG equations, he can't keep focused after more than about 6 steps -- it's too much for him to keep it mind what to do next -- it reminds me a LOT of when he first was learning long division (it was hard for him to keep focused with the repeated steps of multiply-subtract).

 

We will not quite finish Jacobs Algebra this year (we'll have not done 2 chapters). My plan is to go ahead and have him do Geometry next year (probably MUS), BUT, also do pages of MUS Algebra 1 as review / supplement. So he'll still be getting Algebra 1 into 10th grade.

 

 

In your case, I guess I'd ask: "is there a NEED for this student to take Algebra 1 in 8th grade?" Is this student going into the math/science fields in college, so that he really needs to take math courses up through Calculus in high school to have an edge in applying for college? And even if he does, could he start high school with Algebra 1, and then take an extra math course over the summer later in high school? And the other question I'd ask: "is there some other subject you'd like to use 8th grade to really work on?" By repeating the pre-algebra (and do it with a completely different math program, so he'll see it from more than one viewpoint), it will help him get those fundamental algebra concepts really nailed down; but it will also be familiar so it won't take so much time -- which gives you extra time to work on some other area of schooling, or personal habit/self-discipline.

 

Just a thought! BEST of luck, whatever you decide Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you all! You have given me a lot to think over. I do think he would do better with pre-algebra in 8th at this point. I do not feel the need to rush through math and if he finishes 12th with pre-calc I will be happy.

 

I see most of you have suggested using a different program and not repeat CD. Would TT pre-algebra be a good fit(or even TT Alg I as it's a bit behind?) and then onto CD Alg I in 9th? Or would LOF prealgebra be meaty enough as a stand alone and then move onto CD Alg I in 9th?

 

Thanks again!

[Carol in Cal.]

I don't think she is ready for algebra next year, but it's not clear to me that another year of Saxon pre-algebra (Saxon Algebra 1/2) will really serve her well, either.

 

In her case, same age as your son exactly, if she doesn't do algebra next year I will probably have her spend two years in 8th grade so that she can be an 'older' freshman instead of a younger one, and so that she can move into high school having completed Algebra 1 already, which is pretty key to keeping her options open in college. If she does do algebra next year, I still might have her spend two years in 8th grade, just because it gives her an extra year of possibilities before the grind that is the college admissions furor. This is more critical in our case because she is going to go to a brick and mortar school for high school.

 

I had had her wait a year to do kindergarten, and then we skipped first grade, so I have always felt that I kind of owed her that year back.

[gardenschooler]

In 8th grade, my oldest was doing pre-algebra, and dd#2 was doing algebra 1.

 

I am unconvinced of the rush through math. Dd#2 will have time for calculus, sure, and that's fine for her. For Dd#1, she's not the slightest bit interested or inclinted in going that far in math, and slowing down has worked out fine for her.

 

If they aren't going to go past pre-cal, is there any reason for doing algebra 1 in 8th grade? I can see it with a student who is ready, but I don't think there is a real reason to push if they aren't quite ready for algebra.

[imeverywoman]

My 14yods is working his way through Pre-Algebra right now. I have often been concerned with his pace through math, especially as I would hear of others moving at a quicker pace. However, has a really wonderful understanding of the concepts. Math is one area that I have refused to move through at any set pace. So, my long-winded response? If you feel he needs more time with the material, cover it now, so he'll have that foundation set.

 

Just my measley .02 :001_smile:

 

Hope you're well! Hey, by the way, what ever happened with your contact lens situation?

[Storm Bay]

Your second question--should he repeat pre-Algebra. I saw your other thread about LoF. If he has trouble with fractions, etc, yes, do those. What I plan to do with my younger dd is to do LoF Algebra 1 and then follow it with a different Algebra rather than do 2 pre-Algebras; however, she'd doing an intensive review of fractions, etc, first so that she's really solid with it. She's also going to do her first real work with negative numbers, even though she understood the concept when she first heard it because it's one thing to understand the concept and another to work with it, IMO.

 

Your first question--my gr 8 dd is repeating Algebra 1 as she was too immature and needed to get a better handle on it, even though her average was good. She tested out of pre-Algebra, though, so we didn't do it; she'd already learned those skills.

[Quiver0f10]

My 14yods is working his way through Pre-Algebra right now. I have often been concerned with his pace through math, especially as I would hear of others moving at a quicker pace. However, has a really wonderful understanding of the concepts. Math is one area that I have refused to move through at any set pace. So, my long-winded response? If you feel he needs more time with the material, cover it now, so he'll have that foundation set.

 

Just my measley .02 :001_smile:

 

Hope you're well! Hey, by the way, what ever happened with your contact lens situation?

 

I am definitely going to give him more time. You all have convinced me! :D We will do some kind of pre-alg this year and he will do Alg I in 9th. I am thinking of LOF maybe?

 

I did see the eye Dr who said under my eye lid was irritated but it wasn't that scary sounding eye infection :lol: . I had to use steroid drops night and day for a week and it is better, but I still can't leave my contacts in over night. As long as i clean them nightly I can wear them fine all day. Weird.

[SheilaZ]

My son will be in 8th this fall. He'll be using the exact same Dolciani Algebra 1 test that I used in 8th grade.

The difference is that he's ready for it and will do well. Sadly, I could not say the same for my 8th grade self. I had a great text and an award winning teacher...but my pre-algebra background was so weak. I didn't have a grasp of fractions, radicals, or order of operations and I didn't understand mathmatical properties (distribution, cummunitive, associative) at all. Those deficits just piled on each other andleft me at a disadvantage all through college. (I made it through college Calculus II with a lot of stress and trouble. But I had to repeat a few classes.)

 

I really wish I would have had better math prep for 1-7 grades before going into algebra.

 

As as adult, I finally figured out the math on my own. Now I tutor high school math students and don't have any trouble at all with that old Dolciani Text. :D

Just to show you that non-mathy people can become mathy people with a little time and motivation.

[creekland]

When my oldest was in 8th grade he did Alg 2. When my middle son was in 8th grade he did Geometry. They are both talented in math... We based what we did off the local public school where talented math kids do Alg 1 in 7th, normal kids do it in 8th, and math challenged kids don't start it till 9th...

 

My youngest will be in 8th grade next year and will start TT Alg 1. This year he had some difficulty in Pre-Alg, but it seemed to click more toward the end so I'm going to start Alg 1 with him and watch it carefully in case he needs to slow down more. He will not need Calc for college (not with his interests now anyway), so there's room to slow down even more if I want him to.

 

It's been proven with fMRI that many kids don't have the upper level math brain development until they are older, so working things out for each child is absolutely in their best interest. Doing otherwise is pointless and must be quite frustrating to them. On the other hand, holding back those that do get it is equally as wrong as they would be quite bored.

[Quiver0f10]

Just wanted to clarify our course of study (for Beth). Since Saxon integrates geometry into its other levels, we will be doing the following:

 

7th - Math 8/7

8th - Algebra 1/2

9th - Algebra 1

10th - Algebra 2

11th - Advanced math (Trig)

12th - Calculus

 

My 16 yo is using Saxon and this is the plan he is following too. He will be in 11th in the fall using Saxon Adv. Math.

[dragon_horse_0002]

What book do you plan to use for Calculus of a Single Variable for a mathy one?

 

 

Hi Karen,

 

Here is the schedule I will follow for my oldest:

 

8th: Modern Algebra I

9th: Modern Geometry

10th: Modern Algebra II & Trig

11th: Modern Intro Analysis

12th: Calculus of a Single Variable

 

If I started Algebra in 9th grade, I would not make through the Dolciani series that I have planned as well as the Calculus book. Therefore, in our homeschool, if we want to make it to Calculus, we need to start Algebra I in 8th grade.

 

I'm sure you have a different schedule since you will start Algebra in 9th grade and still make it to Calculus. That's one of the advantages of homeschooling!

 

Take care,

~Beth

[kate in seattle]

My twins will be 8th grade this coming school year. They did Saxon Math 8/7 (which is basically pre-algebra) this year (7th grade), but they only did "average" with it. It seems to me that they hit a mental block this year. So even though many people propose skipping either Math 8/7 ~OR~ Algebra 1/2, I have decided that we are going to do both. So next fall we are going to be doing Algebra 1/2. Ironically, this still puts them on the path of doing Calculus in 12th grade, so I don't get why so many people jump ahead. Go figure. But for us, we are going to do two years of it, just to make sure it sticks.

 

If you continue with Saxon math, you might need to allow 3 or even 4 semesers for Advanced Math, which is why Saxon recommends (or at least used to) that Algebra be done in 8th grade. This has just been the experience of my friends who have used Saxon all the way through.