Thanks. I enjoyed reading your blog, btw! :)

May I ask which years of MFW you actually used?

You already know that there's a Book Basket list in the back of the ECC TM... and I dare say that the list is even more extensive for the history cycles (CTG and up) than for ECC, just because of the nature of the topics being studied. Over 400 titles in each one, in fact. Those titles cover the gammut of age ranges and genres, so you are definitely NOT lacking in book choices by staying with MFW. Have you printed out and read through all of the sample lessons in MFW? Have you read through the archived posts on the forums? Obviously, I think that MFW is just awesome. ;) I will also mention that it seems to me that a lot of people give up on MFW after doing ECC, and I think it's a shame that more families aren't getting to experience the history cycles because ECC is so different from the rest. :angelsad2: (Just what I've observed... ) Also, I can assure you that there ARE more and more writing and research projects incorporated in MFW each year. There's a LOT more work in those last 3 years (RTR, EX1850 and 1850MOD) than in the previous years. It does build quite a bit, preparing the Logic stage student to begin working at college-prep level in 9th grade.

True. ;) Thanks for the clarification.

My Father's World for us. It schedules both secular and Christian texts, including SOTW vol. 2, 3 and 4 in the upper levels. They don't use SOTW vol. 1, though. In Creation to the Greeks, the Bible is the spine. Then there are over 400 additional *optional* titles in the Book Basket list in the back of the TMs.

I'm not sure I can (personally) equate the existence of any documentation as being right up there with Scripture, BUT, the last paragraph is certainly true enough. And I believe that at some point, Constantine actually did become a believer (Christian), as opposed to simply being the Catholic political ruler that he started as. Aubrey, many Catholics in history have been true Christians. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really IS a Christian, whether Catholic or not... but Constantine was at some point. A good book to help us see how God used some Christian men -- including some of which were Catholic -- in the history of the church is Trial and Triumph: Stories from Church History by Richard Hannula.

And on the CCW website, if you scroll down on this page http://www.ccwonline.org/books.html to the book titled The Glory of Christ by multiple authors, it looks like it might hold some interesting insights into the Reformed Baptist thinking in particular. It says: '"The Glory of Christ challenges and guides readers in doing just that. Chapters are drawn from sessions given at the "Solus Christus: Rediscovering the Wonder of Christ's Glory" conference, presented by Reformation and Revival Ministries. Contributors include John Armstrong, Jim Elliff, R. Albert Mohler, Jr., and J. I. Packer. The authors believe that true revival will come only when we as God's people return to the centrality of Jesus Christ. "Recovering the wonders of Christ alone is not merely an antiquated slogan of the 16th-century Reformation," declares this book. "It is the flame which will ignite a new reformation today."

Founders is the one I was just looking up! Another link closely related to Founders which has a lot of good articles is www.ccwonline.org

I can tell you why we chose MFW over TOG. -- overall cost -- We already owned several of the resources used in MFW, so apparently we're likeminded with the folks at MFW on that point. -- MFW is non-denominational specific, but is totally Christ and Bible-focused, showing how biblical history and the church are intertwined with secular history from the beginning of time. (I suppose the others do this too, but I was really wanting something non-denominational with regards to eschatology in particular, AND something that's not simply history with some Bible verses added, like many textbook publishers do.) -- I printed out all the sample lessons from the website for every year of MFW and laid them out side by side, reading through them in order. I liked what I saw... not just for the current year I was considering, but for future years, and where we'd be headed. It lined up with our long term goals for history and Bible for our family. (The science isn't a deal-breaker for me... I can go either way on science, chronological or not, as long as it's Creation based.) -- When good friends of mine tried to talk me into joining a TOG co-op, I looked through my friend's TM and read several of the lessons. I decided that it was way too overwhelming for me (the layout of the TM itself -- I like MFW's much better), and it was just too much work for the ages of my kids at the time. I would reconsider TOG for high school, except that now MFW is starting to come out with high school as well, and is writing their h.s. programs to be done mostly independently by the student. I guess there's more, but just comparing MFW and TOG, that's what it boiled down to for us.

Take a look at the Heart of Dakota website. They use the Eggleston books in "Bigger..." However, the "Beyond..." package might be more of what you're looking for right now. (Not saying you have to use the whole package... just take a peek at the books they use.) ;)

I don't have the book yet, but I'm about to order it. It's been on my wish list for a long time and I can finally get it now. I think I need it more for myself than anyone else. :D LOVED the sample chapter! :)

Abeka science -- read and discuss. Easy peasy. OR get books from the library from a resource list like WTM or Ambleside.

For CLE, you need to have your kids take the diagnostic tests because CLE is different than R&S in that CLE is "spiral". Meaning, some concepts are introduced at one time and then reviewed again at a later time, whereas with R&S, you typically "master" one concept before going on to another. And yes, it's normal to have to go "back" a level (or even two, depending on what you came from) when switching into CLE. Don't worry about the number on the cover. They all catch up to the same place eventually. And it's important to note that CLE isn't "behind" R&S... they're just different in how they're laid out. CLE is very thorough, as is R&S.

But the free shipping part of the deal is only through the end of March. ;)

If you use AO with a middle grader or above, can you tell me what year you're using, and how you do it? Do you have any youngers, and if so, do you do AO with them as well? Are they all on the same year? We're needing to save some serious money.... Thanks.

Holly, your other post that I just responded to sounds like you've decided on MFW. But to answer this post, have you looked at the scope & sequence for topics studied in Expl-1850? It shows how, when and where both US and world history are woven into the program, along with Bible and science (I know you said you don't want the science, but just mentioning in case you didn't see). If you go to the following page I've linked and scroll down to the link in the middle of the page for the pdf sample lesson, pages 3-5 of that document show the scope & sequence. http://www.mfwbooks.com/exploration.htm You might also pull up the page for 1850-Modern so that you can see where you'll be headed the following year. This was helpful to me in deciding for MFW a couple years ago, by printing out ALL the sample lessons from every year and reading through them in sequence.

I'm putting together my list for Expl-1850, too. I'm not going to order the package deal because I already own many of the items in the package, so I'll save about $100 that way. If the only things you want to do out of the program are history and music (and Bible is closely tied to history, as well), the items you do NOT need are: - The Animal Kingdom - The World of Animals - Apologia Botany You do need Trial and Triumph (which you already said you're getting), and you'll also need (or would want) Then Sings My Soul, as that will be tied into the history. I won't be ordering the Bible study guide by Kay Arthur. We'll be memorizing the book of James as part of the Bible lessons, but we're going to skip the study guide. If you do want it, you'll need one for each student. You'll also want the read-alouds, as those will be scheduled in the lesson plans. How old are your children? If you have any K-2nd graders (and maybe 3rd grader, depending on the child), you'll want the Adventures supplement as well. We did ADV a couple years ago, so I won't need to buy the supplement with EX1850 because I still have everything from ADV.

Maybe we should all e-mail him and ask for it! ;)

Oh yes, RTR is definitely meaty enough for 5th & 7th graders! MFW recommends it through 8th grade, in fact, and there's plenty of text quite advanced enough for older elementary students. I started it with my oldest at age 11 and finishing it at 12-1/2. The MFW packages "build" in intensity and number of assignments through the years, which is why you'll notice that if you're using ECC, for example, they have additional texts recommended for use with junior highers. But with RTR, you don't have additional texts recommended because it's all there. Anyone who thinks MFW is too "light" hasn't used it beyond the first 3 years or so. LOL.

Just adding a link to a specific page on the CCW website, "Resources for Parents and Teachers": http://www.ccwonline.org/teachers.html

For clarification... The only one mentioned so far that is Reformed *Baptist* (not Presby) is the material from John Piper. You can see the Studying God's Word series from CLP at www.christianbook.com You can see the Hoeksema studies (including "Suffer Little Children" and others) at www.covenanthome.com (I happen to have "Show Me Thy Ways" 4th grade -- though very advanced -- for sale, if anybody's interested.) Another site where you might be able to find something helpful on the Reformed Baptist side is www.ccwonline.org They have a lot of articles online, and if you e-mail Jim Elliff, he'll be glad to help you out with something. Btw, we are Reformed Baptist (were previously Presby but changed), and what we've finally taken to doing due to lack of HS Bible curriculum that is specifically Reformed Baptist is just reading straight out of the Bible and discussing it together. Then at church, we have the girls take notes and/or illustrate the sermon, and we discuss it together at home. My oldest has also talked to our pastor directly about some questions she had. HTH. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions.

Actually, the art and music ARE scheduled in MFW. We didn't do the art or music when we did Adventures, so I'm not sure if they were scheduled in there or not. But they definitely are scheduled in RTR. And if they're in RTR, I have to assume they're in CTG, as well. I will confess that one of the reasons I originally went with MFW was because of the scheduling and the simple way that the wonderful TM is laid out (aside from the TMs in K and 1st). However, as time goes on, I'm getting more and more confident in my own abilities to schedule what I want, and when I want do it. In fact, I rarely actually followed the MFW schedule once we got used to the program! We just started doing our own thing with it. Great materials, and I love having the TM as a resource, but I wasn't doing it *their* way anymore. (I hear a lot of people do that with SL, too.)

Well, first off, let me link you to a thread explaining why the author of MFW didn't include SOTW 1 in CTG in the first place. Maybe that will help a bit in your thinking it through, just so you know. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=365 I haven't used CTG, but I have used RTR which also schedules Streams. The readings in Streams are just little tidbits of factual information which are helpful to the older student. (Streams is actually a high school text used by CLA in their 9th & 10th grade classes.) If your oldest is only 3rd or 4th grade, you probably don't even need to use Streams at all right now. So I wouldn't worry about that. If you want to include SOTW 1 instead, you're certainly free to do so. The main "spine" of CTG is the Bible itself, as the Hazell's wanted the focus at this age not to be on the false gods and lifestyles of the pagan ancients, but on God's people and the biblical foundation of the world. There's plenty of time to get to that other stuff. Note that MFW does schedule SOTW volumes 2-4 in later years, however. And they use the AG for SOTW 4 along with their year 5, 1850-Modern. Trust me, there are PLENTY of activities scheduled in the MFW TMs without having to add the AG in the earlier years, but if you really *want* to have all the extra stuff, that's up to you. Just be aware that it may be more than enough. Another idea is to simply use SOTW 1 as part of your "Book Basket" (or free reading) during CTG, without the AG and without trying to schedule the readings. I know there are several people who've done this with MOH 1, too. Or you might consider getting SOTW on CD to listen to in the car or whatever. Just some ideas.

My understanding with the outlining that's done in MFW, you don't need any prep, as she teaches you how to do it. But I'm thinking of getting the Remedia Outlining book that SWB recommends, anyway. Just for my own peace of mind. LOL. It's not expensive.

Have you looked at My Father's World Expl-1850 and 1850-Modern? Or even Rome to Reformation... these all include both world and American history simultaneously. EX1850 and 1850MOD have a supplemental package available for younger kids to do a fun, simple overview of American history alongside the older sibling(s), especially if they're not yet ready for the detail and abstract learning of world history which includes the beliefs and lifestyles of ancient mythologies. Here's a link to the EX1850 page.... but be sure to check out the RTR and 1850-MOD pages, too. You can print out sample lessons from each and compare them side by side. http://www.mfwbooks.com/exploration.htm