I also had my girls trace the drawings and label the parts in the VanCleave book. I had my oldest do every detail, and the youngest (well, the youngest doing the project) I just picked out which parts I wanted her to trace and label, with less detail. Then they'd cut out their tracings and tape them to regular paper to insert into their notebooks. This really helped with remembering some of the big names that I wouldn't even have remembered! Plus it's impressive to look back upon. ;) My 5yo did the human body model, too. With help, of course. :D

I was thinking along these lines, too. We'd have to shut down entire BUSINESSES that sell used goods, including eBay, Amazon, paperbackbookswap.com and many more. Furthermore, when I sell used goods, I am NOT making any profit.... I sell it at a loss. ALWAYS. So the author/publisher of that material isn't the only one losing money because people out there are buying used goods rather than being forced to buy new.... we all are.

If you've done Egypt, MA, and Ren/Reformation, I'd go forward with American history. If you were to choose SOTW, I'd do volume 3 this year and then volume 4 for 8th grade. Another idea is the TruthQuest History Guides which are basically assigned readings each week (a very extensive booklist in chronological order, plus commentary from the author), and then occasionally between topics, you have a "ThinkWrite" exercise which asks the student a hard question that she has to respond to in writing. SOTW is secular/neutral, and TruthQuest is distinctively Christian. I believe that SOTW is one of the spines that TQ incorporates, so you could combine them that way. If you would like Bible and science included as well, you might look at My Father's World years 4 and 5 for 7th & 8th. These years also include SOTW 3 and 4. There are message boards on the website where you can lurk and/or ask more questions about your particular situation: http://www.mfwbooks.com/2-8_home.htm

I don't know what age group you're looking for, but here's a game called "The Journeys of Paul" which I've been thinking about getting: http://ebiz.netopia.com/clpress/pages/store/skudetail.nhtml?profile=educationalgames&uid=16151&returnURL=http%3A//ebiz.netopia.com/clpress/educationalgames

But see, that's not right, either. Not to even be able to use the same TM within the same family!

Abeka and BJU do this in a roundabout way, by frequently updating/revising their materials, thereby "forcing" users to buy new TMs and other go-alongs, even within the same family if much time has passed. Ruth Beechick has an interesting chapter on this topic in "The Language Wars". (Though she kindly does not mention any publishers' names.)

I'm wanting to cover a lot with my 7th grader this year, too. I made a list of things I want to cover during the next 12 months, and the list was VERY long. I've started it breaking it down by month, realizing that some projects will only take a few weeks, and others will go longer. I just can't stretch everything out for a whole year. We all get too burned out (mentally, a whole year is just too long for ME!), and we never get to everything I want. Breaking it down is helpful to all of us.

Some modern translations might use the word "homosexual" (though I don't know because I haven't seen all translations for myself), but the old ones don't. While the definition of homosexual is there, and is condemned, the word homosexual is not in the earlier, more traditional translations.

You might also look into the Archives for CTG. We haven't done CTG, but I know that when I've needed ideas for other programs we've done, I've found TONS of helpful hints in the Archives. Just peeking at the archive forum for CTG right now, I see several threads with "books" in the subject title. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=11 Also, realize that one doesn't have to get the *exact* titles that are in the book basket list. If you can't find the titles listed, you really just need book titles that cover the same time period/topic. VP has some great books to choose from, as does SL. You could also check the Ambleside list for that time period, which would be either Year 1, or the 3rd term of Year 6. I'm sure you can find some e-books from the Ambleside list. Another idea: In the book basket list, Marie has asterisked some of her favorites that are recommended purchases if you don't have the library as an option. If you really want more reading than what's included in the Deluxe package (were you planning to buy that, or just the Basic?), then you might want to purchase the titles she has asterisked on the list.

Well, the Deluxe package for EX1850 is only $380, and that includes all core and enrichment subjects... well, minus your own math and grammar, I guess. But I assume that would be additional with TOG, as well? And yes, if you're not using the library and buying all your *extra* books (besides those included in the lesson plans), you could end up spending a lot of money. That's true no matter what curriculum you use.

Actually, Writing Strands is the instructional tool that MFW recommends, which is a separate purchase, just as Writing Aids is the instructional tool that TOG recommends, which is also a separate purchase. So it's not quite accurate to say that TOG "includes" literature and writing but MFW doesn't. With both programs, you have to buy the recommended instructional tool. Additionally, for TOG to actually "include" literature, you'd have to buy the books, but you don't have the books included in the price. So again, it's unfair to say that TOG "includes" literature in your price comparison, but to add it as a separate purchase for MFW. MFW also includes books for literature study... if you're taking the full package price into account, that is. On re-sale value, there are a LOT of families who don't resell their MFW materials at all. I don't plan to. In fact, there are literally thousands of MFW users that simply don't post on HS message boards. I think that's one reason TOG "seems" to be more popular.... they're "visible" on the internet, but the MFW users aren't. Honestly, I think the biggest differences between MFW and TOG are that TOG users are primarily looking for a classical education, where MFW users are primarily looking for strong biblical integration and more of a Charlotte Mason flavor.... (and I realize that's a very broad generalization).

I used RME with my oldest, and I honestly think it's "enough" LA at that age except perhaps for handwriting. It includes picture study, reading practice (stories within the manual), games, sentence formation, introduction to capitalization and punctuation, and copywork. The font used in RME is Italic, so I used the Getty-Dubay books for her handwriting formation. We didn't use any readers in addition to RME, except that she read a lot from the Dr. Seuss books. I'd been reading those to her since she was tiny, so it seemed the natural thing for her to start (and practice) reading them on her own. She then went straight into real books and spelling with Building Spelling Skills from CLP. We also used FIAR at the time. I'm just starting RME with my 3rd dd now, but I can't say yet whether that and a separate handwriting book will be enough for her, as she has difficulty in speech and language skills.

Yobella, in case you're not aware, let me explain a couple of points (and for the interest of others reading, too). Adventures is a fun, one-year overview of key people, places and events in American history, the 50 states, patriotic songs and symbols, the names and characteristics of Jesus, and simple science experiments that are tied to the names of Jesus. It is NOT an in-depth study of American history. That will come later in years 4 & 5, when American history is spread out over two years to study at a much deeper level with older children, including memorizing an entire book of the Bible, research and writing assignments, more advanced books, etc. Many of these skills are taught within the daily and weekly teacher notes of the TM. Adventures, OTOH, is age-appropriate for approximately 2nd graders (and some 3rd graders) and below. However, you can still get in two full cycles of chronological history by staying with MFW. ECC is a one year countries & cultures study (geography) with a missions and prayer emphasis. (As Crystal explained in an earlier post, this would be done much deeper with older students.) Then after ECC follows two 4-year cycles of chronological history. Also, with MFW, the TMs for K, 1st and ECC are set up differently than Adventures and the other history years. While this doesn't bother some people at all, others sometimes get turned off of MFW because they didn't like the layout of the TMs in the very early years, but it does change according to the focus of the topic(s) being studied. K and 1st are geared to learning how to read (phonics and other beginning math and LA skills), and thus are a completely different layout. ECC is set up geographically (space) rather than chronologically (time). So those are a little different in layout. I just hate to see people throwing out the baby with the bathwater because they didn't like something about one year of a program. That's why I always recommend looking at the *whole* picture.

Okay, so Writing Aids is an additional purchase with TOG, just as Writing Strands is an additional purchase with MFW... correct? Thanks! I've never been able to figure out how it works with all the required purchases for TOG. With MFW, they have recommendations for math and LA, and those recommendations work well with the overall layout of the program lessons plans, and timeframe in which to get it done (because LA skills are incorporated into the history and Bible lessons, as well). However, some people just don't care for those math and LA recommendations and therefore choose to use their own preferences. MFW is very flexible that way.

I used to think exactly along the same lines (and sometimes I still do), but I'll explain why the cost of MFW works for me. I'm using MFW with 3 different age groups, so I divide the cost of the program by 3 and that makes it much less expensive per child. I might think differently if I only had one child. OTOH, one of the things about MFW vs. TOG and SL (that is, one reason *I* chose MFW over the others) is the 400+ optional book titles inside the TM because the author realizes that most homeschoolers are one-income families who need to save money and really appreciate the library. You can pick and choose from these many optional titles and use the library as desired. But everything *needed* to accomplish the program is included in the package that you purchase. Also, several of the resources are used in multiple years, so you're not buying *every* book *every* year. The other thing is that MFW isn't just history... it's also science and Bible, and the TM also includes lesson plans/time slots for every subject including the 3 R's and enrichment subjects. So even with just one child, you'd divide the cost by 3 or more subjects, and that would bring your cost down even more. Now, coming from a purely Christian perspective: MFW is also very unique in that it's a "discipleship" program as well... Bible isn't (or shouldn't be) just history... it should be able to lead a child (or even parent) to Christ and disciple a person all the way through. There's not only a history sequence in MFW; there's a discipleship sequence at 3 different maturity levels: K-2nd, 3rd-8th, and high school. Or you could say Grammar, Logic, and Rhetoric. Initially the child is introduced to Jesus and God the Creator; then the child is brought to read and understand the Word of God a little better; and then the child is directed to service for God and other people. But yes, I totally understand what you're saying. I get really hung up on trying to plan it all out myself, so I pay for hand-holding. And with MFW, I'm paying for a lot more than just history. What I'm saying is that you really have to look beyond just the "history" aspect of a program and how many books are included, no matter what it is. What else are you getting with it? Lesson planning, other subjects, long term goals, teacher notes and ideas, family size, overall lifestyle, etc. These things are taken into account from one individual family to another to determine value of any program.

I have no feedback to offer yet, except to say that my oldest dd has LOVED studying her Abeka science textbook this past year. She's recently expressed an interest in nursing, so while I've debated long and hard about using Apologia General Science (which comes highly recommended by many), I've decided to get my dd the complete Abeka science and health kit for 7th, including all the go-alongs.

I don't have any suggestions for you, but I just wanted to say how much I appreciate your dd's love for language! "She says she wants to learn Greek and all the major languages of the world next." That is so incredibly sweet, funny... and brainy! ;) :D

Thanks for your quick reply! :) I've never looked at Foerster's. What do you like about it? Where can I see it?

Angela, do you plan to stick with BJU math from now on? (Btw, I was just looking at your blog and am really enjoying it!)

Thank you! :D

Like at the 7th grade level? How about 4th grade? Fourth grader would be coming from Saxon and Singapore; 7th grader from Singapore and the Key To books.

And I wouldn't just print the samples for the initial year that you're considering. One thing that helped me to decide *for* MFW was to print up all the sample lessons from all the years, and then to sit down and read through them in order. This gave me a "big picture" view of what we'd be doing not only the first year, but in the coming years. It helped me to see how each year builds upon the previous year with more depth, the kinds of activities, literature choices, advanced assignments for older students, and the Bible chronology as well as the history chronology. It also gave me a bigger view of the total "discipleship" of the program. Initially, they are introducing the young child to Jesus and His Word. Then they build on that with more actual Bible study and tons of scripture memorization. Then the theme becomes acts of service. There are 3 cycles of this, each one at a more mature level with more requirements, not only academic, but spiritually as well: 1st cycle: K, 1st and Adventures 2nd cycle: ECC, CTG, RTR, EX1850, 1850-Modern, and then if you've been following the cycle as written from the beginning, you would have an 8th grader ready to ECC again with the recommended junior high supplementation, including deeper (and more detailed) missionary bios. 3rd cycle: High school, beginning with the Ancients and reading through the entire OT, and able to give a defense for Creation over evolution. (Yes, they also teach Apologetics!) Thus, what I'm suggesting is to consider more than just the history part of the program... consider the entire program. If you haven't already spent time at the MFW forums, be sure to check them out, and especially the archives for each year's program. Here's a link to the "Choosing Curriculum" page, where you'll find a couple of threads with conference CD information... listening to some of David Hazell's talks might clear up a few questions you have. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewforum.php?f=8&sid=83a68c8c60b8edc315c3f95c5b9aa17b

You might also try http://www.oldfashionededucation.com

Well, that's not quite true... there are advanced assignments in the lesson plans for older students, and a wide variety of hands-on activities that you can choose from depending on the student (and you). You would then use the same program again when your younger child(ren) cycle back around to it. The only thing that would be a "different" or "additional" program is in high school, and that's because it's written at the college-prep level for that student to individualize and prepare for adulthood. Community service is a strong aspect of the high school years, as well. They're therefore writing the high school programs FOR the high school level student to be able to work mostly independently. It goes a lot to having the child learn independence and responsibility. They highly emphasize teaching the child independence as they get older, even during the elementary years. Advanced assignments in the elementary years are geared to be able to do this, as well. MFW is very family-oriented with the growth and maturation of the children in mind.

:iagree: Well said, Shannon.