Nicole, I agree with everything you said! That is what the Bible is for us as well. But let me ask you, what does BSGFAA stand for? Is it appropriate for older children? I love your questions. It's so important to know why we study something. My dd and I read parts of the Bible but I feel very inadequate to explain much of it. Would BSGFAA be a solution?

:iagree: :iagree: with all of you! My dd would be either in the principal's office regularly for being accused of doing something on purpose (that she didn't do) or sitting in detention for spacing out . Between the dyslexia and the vision issues (we're in the process of discovering what they all are via a developmental optometrist with vision therapy most likely in our future), she struggles so to really hear what you are saying and then being able to apply it. Math has been a major problem up until just a few years ago. She's do the same things as have been mentioned, "How do you add these fractions again? I don't remember?", after having done them the day before. About 3 years ago after unsuccessfully struggling through Math-U-See (she hated it, I loved it), Saxon and ABeka, we fell upon Mammoth Math. I took her back to 2nd grade Math (she was in 5th at the time), to begin with the basics again. She and I loved that program and she was able to actually get some of the basics. I can so relate to whomever said that the number of problems on a page can be so overwhelming that the child just totally shuts down. That would happen to my dd with ABeka and Saxon. We completed Mammoth Math Grades 2 - about 1/2 of 4th. Then it was like she somehow knew that she'd absorbed all she could. After that, last year, we made the switch to Teaching Textbooks. And the absolutely amazing thing is that she was able to start in TT 7th grade. I was blown away. She is now doing Pre-Algebra (up to grade level) and doing well. I'm not sure Math will ever be her strongest subject but she has grasped many of the basic concepts and now is able to remember most of them from day to day. We also have chosen to school around the year (with many many breaks in between). I have found that so helpful with Math. Then there are so few time gaps for her to have to try to remember what she learned last. Also, I always let her use her notes and the textbook for tests. And many of her multiplication facts are written out so she can look if she needs to. I have found that she rarely needs to look at her notes, the math facts or in the book any more. I am blessed and challenged to be able to provide this for my dd. But even on the days that I want to pull out my hair, I am so glad to be able to provide the kind of environment in which she can excel, as in do her best. :grouphug: :grouphug: to all of you who are hanging in there. May God provide glimpses every once in a while of how your children are progressing to keep you all encouraged.

WOW. I guess I sparked quite a "discussion"! Thank you for all the reasons you value learning about Hector, Odysseus and all the gods of the Greeks and Trojans. I plan to look into the resources that you mentioned. I didn't realize there were so many versions both audio and written! By the way, although my dd is 14 and in 8th grade, she has dyslexia and some other processing issues going on (which we only recently discovered), so her ability to hear and process is probably much less than whatever your "typical" 8th grader could do. We will not be doing Latin or Greek nor any other foreign language as she most likely couldn't process it. She has enough issues with her native English language. If we do anything, it will be American sign language. I say all that to say that the sources listed above for younger students may very well be the ones that will click with her, more simple, more direct. I am also very interested in the audio books mentioned. We have used them to "read" The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy as well as most of The Chronicles of Narnia. It was a great way to get through some material with difficult names (for me) and it made it such fun to listen to.

Could someone please tell me why it's important to read about Greek stories by Homer, The Illiad, the Odyssey and the like? My dd and I tried getting through A Children's Homer and it was not pretty. We couldn't keep track of who was who and who was related to whom, etc. So a friend suggested trying The Trojan War by Olivia Coolidge. I must say it's better (clearer) than A Children's Homer but we still find it somewhat tedious and not exciting (still trying to remember who is whom but I appreciate the pronunciation guide of sorts in the back with a brief blurb of who is who). But really, could you explain to me why this is important? Would we be permanently messed up if we don't actually make it through the book? Does it lay the foundation for something yet to come or do people just enjoy these stories?

I LOVED the article. Does the non-home schooling world out there not recognize how weird "normal" teenagers are? I would much rather take the "what I consider to be normal" weirdness of my emerging daughter, who has the freedom to test her wings and figure out who she is than any "normal" non-homeschooled teenager any day. I was one who greatly suppressed myself to be who I was allowed to be in P.S. in order to survive. I am still many decades later trying to give myself permission to be me. Such a sad thing. Why would we ever choose to do that to our children? I LOVE that we can provide a safe and caring environment for our children to come into the fullness of who God made them to be. And besides, we're all weird in one way to the other. Why not let it out from the get-go and become who we were meant to be? It makes so much more sense. Thanks for sharing the article. I shared it with my entire home school group to encourage them for what they do. :)

I'm praying for you, for peace for you and your family, and for answers and solutions.:grouphug: coming your way.

I would agree with the dyslexia piece as my daughter has dyslexia and hates reading outloud. Every time she reads out loud she yawns, though it has become less as she has gotten better at reading. She never yawns when she's doing anything else. I find it very curious but I know how very hard she works at reading so it makes sense! As to VT, she just had her first evaluation this week (and there are issues). She is to have some visual, perceptual and motor testing done before the VT starts. Then we can see if the yawning is related to just dyslexia or if the other issues play into it as well.

I'm going to jump in and answer this question also! Nobody referred us to the developmental optometrist either. Because of my daughter's dyslexia, I had been reading some things on these boards, specifically the Special Needs Board about developmental optometrists. And because OhElizabeth (thank you!) seems to think along these lines, I kept reading her responses to home schoolers, whose children showed dyslexic-like behaviors, to have them checked out by developmental optometrists. I thought about it for a long time not knowing what to do. I wasn't even aware of any of the issues with my dd's eyes that came out at our appointment this week. She never brought up any of them (other than the double vision that she can create at will) because she didn't know any different, she just thought they were normal. I would imagine that it's so much easier when you actually have a child fail a vision test even if their eyes are normal. My dd's are not. She is pretty nearsighted and only recently mentioned that she thought her eyes had changed. The optometrist told us that her glasses are fine, it's just that her eyes and brain aren't working well together so it seems like she can't see clearly. I thank God that we ended up going and finding out how very hard she works to get things to work for her. Now, we can do something about it to help her. Otherwise I never would have explored this path and found out what can be fixed to make it easier for my daughter who works so hard!

I think you're right. Actually I am the one who called it "academic". I heard some words about standardized tests (I think they take parts of various tests) and assumed it was like the IOWAs or the CAT. And that was what was confusing to me, since I KNOW she has issues academically since I've been working with them for a very long time. And the part that was MOST perplexing to me, was actually what you said, "academic content would confound the results of a visual perceptual motor test as you wouldn't know if the person being tested is having trouble with the visual/motor stuff or the academic stuff." Thanks for your input. It helps. :001_smile:

Can anyone who's been through this process (the comprehensive exam at a developmental optometrist, testing, and visual therapy) comment on what I wrote? Was your journey similar to mine? Did you wrestle with emotions, money, the process? Any thoughts would be helpful. Thank you.

My dd had a comprehensive exam yesterday at the developmental optometrist's office. The visit was long and thorough, over 2 hours. The doctor said that she has lots of issues -- issues with her eyes not tracking well (though that was her eyes' best issue), issues with her eyes not working well together (one focusing on the object, whatever it is, and the other eye doing its own thing -- causing her to see double), and her eyes not handling the transition between far and near well, sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. My dd has had your regular optometry appointments and even ophthalmologist appointments but never anything like this, that tested many things and was so thorough. They recommended some sort of "academic test", a visual perceptual motor test that takes 2 hours and costs a lot. After that, a conference with us to explain the findings and then most likely visual therapy. They mentioned either individual or group therapy. I didn't ask what the difference there was (other than being told the costs). I really don't want her to have this "academic" test because I feel it will be a reflection of how I've done as a teacher (though I know that's not true) and there's a part of me that just doesn't want to subject her to what will be hard for her. Academics are hard for her. My dh and I wanted to skip this part (because we don't really see how necessary it is) but they won't do the visual therapy without it. The info sheet for this "academic" test says this: "A Visual Perceptual Motor Assessment is designed to completely investigate your child's visual system. Tests will measure accommodation (focusing), binocularity (eye teaming) and ocular motility (eye tracking movements). They also measure the integration of vision with auditory and vision with motor. Finally how your child processes visual information will be investigated." I guess I'm just leery of tests and having people probe my dd. Does anyone know any more about this kind of test/assessment? I'm irritated that insurance doesn't cover these things but I'm trying to get over the money because I know in my heart of hearts it's not about the money, it's about my dd having an easier time because things will work better as they should. Mostly, I am stunned. I never knew there was so much going on in my dd's brain. The doctor remarked, even before much of the testing was completed , that it was obvious that my dd has persevered through much and that she is a hard worker. Now I realize that she (dd) is amazing. She has pressed through all this visual (sometimes faulty) input and dealt also with her dyslexia. Lastly there's a part of me that feels like "I should have known" all this, somehow and I feel a little guilty for letting all this go for so long. But, I honestly didn't know about most of it. She used to talk about seeing double but I know she can make herself see double and she said yesterday that that was what she was referring to, not that her eyes end up seeing double when they don't work together. So in reality, I knew none of it. How can that be? I'm with my child 24/7? I know the answer to that is that what is not normal for others, is normal for my child so why would she bring up something that is an everyday occurrence? Nevertheless, how could I not have known? I felt somewhat like this when we discovered her dyslexia but not to this degree. So there you have it. Seems like a whole lot to process all at once. :001_smile:

First of all, let me say that I appreciate your wanting to know the truth about vaccines. I must say that I used to be in total support of trusting doctors to know and do what's right. I come from a doctor's family (both my grandfathers were doctors, my great grandfather was a doctor, uncles were doctors, my dad and step mom are doctors, my sister is a doctor...) and I was raised to just obey them and believe that they are gods. I have come to think about all these things differently now. It all began when I started reading this book by Christiane Northrup: Mother-Daughter Wisdom: Understanding the Crucial Link Between Mothers, Daughters, and Health by Christiane Northrup As a medical student she began to question her total acceptance of vaccinations when she learned what they were made of and how they were made. She also looked at the statistics and studied whether or not the vaccinations really had caused disease rates to go down. Also she looked at the large number of people who had reactions to the shots. Then after my daughter was around 10 and had had all the recommended vaccinations up to that point, I found this book, written by a pediatrician: How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor by Robert S. Mendelsohn I LOVED that both of these books were written by medical folks. some links about what goes into vaccinations and some ingredients in vaccines or while they are being grown: http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm187810.htm http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm And Dr. Mercola's (a physician) view: http://vaccines.mercola.com/ And last there is this book: Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective by Neil Z. Miller If you need to have vaccinations to go to France (and there are no exceptions allowed -- religious, philosophical or medical), then my recommendation is to have the minimal. If your kids are healthy, you want to keep them that way. But, with all I have said, everyone needs to seek their own information and their own truth for themselves and their families. God bless you as you explore this information and figure out what works for you and your family. I"m sure you'll figure out what will work. And as to what others think, let that go. This is your decision not theirs. :-)

What is an LCC-style schedule?

I believe you still can purchase what you'd like from SL. Here's the link for the Instructor's Guide (IG) for B+C $64.78: http://www.sonlight.com/homeschool-curriculum.html?type=core&core=BC&tab=ig Then you can add the readers: I'm not sure how pricey that would be. I think your best bet is to get the IG along with the readers. Use this link for that: http://www.sonlight.com/homeschool-curriculum.html?core=BC You can do 2nd grade readers for 4 or 5 days (depending on how many days you want to HAVE to do school). Or if you think those will be easy for you 8-yo, you can choose the 3rd grade readers or the 4-5th grade readers. That way the prices range from $379-459. I have always used the library system in our region to check out books to see if they would work for my dd. If you're not sure what level to get, that might help. But maybe you already know ... Here's the link for Science B: Animals, Astronomy and Physics. You again have a 4 or 5 day choice. Personally I LOVED having 4 day school. I would get the readers for the 5 day program and fit those in when I could but that left us a day to catch up, to rest, or to do something nontraditional. The schedule you get from SL has both the 4 day on one side and the 5 day on the other so you can do what works for you. AND, if you need to shift gears at one point, you can do that (switch from 5 to 4 day or vice versa. If you use the above links, just add what you want to the cart and see how it looks to you! Karen

My one and only is 14 but we used SL for many years, Core K - 100 (which are now called very different things). I absolutely LOVED the book choices but found them to have so many good resources that 1) I didn't know what to throw out and 2) knew that I couldn't do it all. The good news is that you can always use books from SL lists with whatever curriculum you choose. This past year we broke from SL and started doing MFW, Creation to the Greeks. We are enjoying it. What I enjoy the most is that the workload is not heavy and I find the schedule to be very open-ended. You can add things or delete things or change things so that they work for you. I'm sure there are people who have done that with SL but I had such a hard time with it. But, I have used SL books this year to add to my dd's reading "basket" (I think they call it at MFW) and I feel like I am getting the best of both worlds. The books from SL are good but you don't have to do SL to use their books! :001_smile: My vote would be to go with MFW, either with Adventures or ECC. Hope that helps. Karen

Crystal, thanks for being a real person who's used this and letting me know how it has worked for you. That is really helpful. I don't think I'll do the high school level for my dd since the reading would be too hard and the expectations for her too advanced. The materials would be very interesting but hard for her to crack. If we don't do ECC next year, then I'll just progress to the next in the cycle, RTR, I think.And adapt it as needed (add books that might stretch her more than what's there, if needed). BTW, my daughter LOVES crafts and could use help with research skills. :001_smile: Karen

Last year when we began using MFW, having never used it before, the Sales Rep from MFW (at a home school conference) said that you HAVE to do Exploring Countries & Cultures (ECC) before you do the 4 year cycle beginning with Creation to the Greeks. Since my dd was older (13 at the time) and had special needs, I chose to skip it and we have used CTG this year. I am wondering, from those who have done it, if it's worth spending a whole year on Geography (and Cultures)? Does it really help them in the next 4 years? Her claim was that her children (who were currently doing this) knew ALL the countries and continents and also the culture, climate, etc, that went along with it. That would greatly help everything they would study in the next years fall into place better. I'm just wondering ... Could those who've used ECC please enlighten me?

Thank you OhElizabeth (again) for putting things in perspective. It can be very hard for some of us to not get caught up in the "academic" expectations of the world, of our families, of our own and to forget what really matters. I like the idea of Goals. How can you get some where if you don't know what you're aiming for? It's like shooting arrows in the dark, with no set purpose in mind. :-) And Shari, I so appreciate what you had to share. I LOVE the part you said that I highlighted above -- a SN kid needs Mom more than ever to be that person to step in and make adjustments to the "program". You gotta find what works for you and your family and use it, blocking out the noise! AMEN! Thanks, ladies for encouraging me along the way. I used to teach in public school (many years ago!) but still find myself from time to time getting sucked into what "others" (whoever THEY are) might think. Thanks for the reminder of what really matters. :001_smile:

I would second (or third) this opinion. My dd was never evaluated per se, but having done research myself, your daughter fits mine to a T. Buying clothes and getting shoes was always a nightmare. I really thought she was just doing these things to drive me nuts! I'm sorry to say that I felt that way, especially when I found out later that she truly felt these things and like you said about sandpaper and pebbles, that was her. It sounds like sensory issues to me, worth looking into.

OhElizabeth, can you tell me more about what COVD doctors do (as opposed to "regular eye doctors")? Is it expensive (meaning are there multiple sessions involved)? Are there things that only they can do in the office or ways that the parent and child can be trained so as to do them at home? I know you've talked about this in some of your posts but I really wasn't thinking they applied to my dd, so I really wasn't "listening", so to speak. Thanks. By the way, my dd had her eyes examined last May (and received new glasses).

My dd is 14 and has dyslexia. I have never really paid attention to this but today as she was putting together a report on the United Kingdom for our homeschool group, I noticed something. Her report is mostly a "display" report, lots of photos and pictures with a little writing. She had cut out these photos from where they were printed on paper. While she can use scissors, she has a hard time, and always has, cutting them evenly and close to the border and making them even (symmetric). The funny thing is that she has good fine motor dexterity. She began holding her crayon correctly at a very young age, like maybe 2? She is very artistic and draws very well. Her handwriting is OK but it takes a while for her to actually do the mechanics of writing. But because she can write and draw, it takes me by surprise that she has difficulty cutting accurately with scissors. She does wear glasses (near sighted) if that has anything to do with it. Is this a vision thing or is this related at all to dyslexia?

I'd like all of the above but for 8th/9th grade. Any suggestions?

I totally agree! :iagree: The beauty of homeschooling is that you can tailor it for your family and your circumstances. So starting slowly over the summer gives you the ability to tweak as you go. I'll be praying for you! :-)

Is it possible or even beneficial to have a student with dyslexia learn a foreign language? Does it make things worse or can it help connect the dots? (I know for me that learning Spanish helped me learn grammar and vocabulary that I did not know in English.) We are currently working through English From the Roots Up and while my dd can memorize the word roots, I haven't yet seen this knowledge be applied in a way that helps her with her understanding of language and words. This may or may not be related to my original question! If a foreign language would be a good idea, what would you recommend? Just wondering ... I just found similar posts on Latin and sign language. Sign language is as interesting possibility ...

Bless you, Elizabeth! It's way toooo easy to get swayed from what you're currently doing (that is working) to something that might work. I know because I've done that. If it ain't broken ... And that is especially true with children with special needs. I looked into Heart of Dakota last year and liked what I saw but it was the amount of money it would cost that put me off. I found MFW and have loved it so it makes sense to just carry on. :001_smile: Thank you again, Elizabeth, for reminding me to keep on keeping on the path that has been set before us. You are so right about the big jumps not working.