:) (Although I might be persuaded that those exist, too, lol.)

Sounds good to me! :001_smile:

...but it does comfort me a little in my decision to just accept that my son is a little challenged in the area of math computation. :001_smile: Drill may or may not help it, but it's worth a try. ("A pedagogy designed to identify strong and weak areas of achievement is not a bad idea.") I've read something else, recently, that leaned towards the idea that environment had less to do with outcome than most might like to think, and I know people who would seem to prove that. (My dad was one of the most intelligent people I ever met, and he certainly didn't have an "enriching childhood" in the modern sense.) It's not very thrilling to think that you (or your children) are only given a certain amount of raw material, but I think it also underscores the value of teaching a good work ethic, alongside the flashcards, Little Einstein videos, etc. Hard work can make up for a lot of lack.

Okay, I've thought about this before, but receiving standardized test scores today has brought it back to the forefront of my mind, lol. :001_smile: Both of my older children scored well. I could have predicted how they'd do, though; oldest daughter is a bright kid, and a hard worker, across the board. Her test scores reflect that. Oldest son is a sharp cookie all around, but he's weak in spelling and math computation. Not in grasping the general ideas, but in figuring, so to speak. How do you winnow out what's reflecting your strengths, as a teacher, what your children's natural bents are, and what could be bolstered by a little more attention? Honestly...I don't know that my teaching has anything to do with this, other than finding weak spots and trying to address them. (For example, math computation). I think my kids would lean the ways they're bent, whether they were with me or at school, but there is a part of me that always wonders if I'm shaping them towards my preferences, unknowingly. (Unwitting focus on literary discussions and a subconscious math avoidance, for example). Thoughts? Or am I rambling, lol? :D

I've never really wanted to do scouts (for either gender), but this program sounds wonderful! And it's so neat that after years of not hearing about it, now that someone's invited us to a meeting, it seems like I'm seeing/learning more about it! Thanks for posting. I'm even more excited about this, now. :001_smile:

It sounds, so far, as if it's right up my 15yodd's alley, and down her street. :001_smile: Much moreso than 4H. It would depend on the child's interests, I guess. Camping, service projects, etc., those are all things my dd would be into, and since one of her friends is cajoling her, I think Venturing is in our future. (They're also trying to get ds to join, which would make life easier, having them BOTH do it.) The group we're visiting is just getting off the ground, too. I also think that joining a group in the beginning sounds preferable, since it's more likely you can have some influence. (As opposed to joining an established group that's already set in its ways, lol.)

You seem to want to be able to "settle" this now, but what if you could put off deciding about high school until...high school? :001_smile: I have a 7 year old and a 8 year old that I'm calling 2nd and 3rd graders, again, this year, since we're going to a co-op that designates grade levels (they'll turn 8 and 9 early in the school year). Both of them started doing academic work when they were about four or five, but I'd rather them be on target, age-wise, if we're involving outside groups. For social purposes. If, when they get to 8th grade, they're still working ahead, and are going to be doing high school level work that I feel should go on their transcript, and if they want to move ahead and graduate a little early...I'll bump them into high school. Just like I did with one of their older siblings. I do think it matters, even if you're homeschooling, what grade you have assigned to your child...but I don't think it has to be as set in stone as it is with the public schools. (I also don't think it matters, as much.) For us, the real issue is where they truly belong. And that can be different, at different times. For the most part, socially, until at LEAST high school, I believe they "belong" with peers, if you're talking outside activities (no matter what feats of wonder they're performing at home). It's usually much easier on the ego, later, to skip ahead than hold back, so that's why I prefer to err on the side of age when they're young, and offer the opportunity to advance, later. (It's not something I decide on my own, without them, so it also makes sense to wait until they're old enough to think it over, and help with the decision). JMO.

You're a woman after my own heart; a quote from Will Rogers in your sig line, and a picture of Foghorn Leghorn as your avatar!! :D

With my oldest two (about a year apart in age), I combined, and did Rod and Staff at the approximate level of the youngest (who was "advanced"). Ditto about the whiteboard.

I did have to kind of pace myself, lol, with outdoor activities, but when we moved back to OK...it was like my skin had dried out! I think the humidity was better for my skin, and I also believe it made it easier to maintain a lower weight, lol. (As someone else said...like a steam room. :D)

Great post, and I agree. I'll only add that I believe that teaching logic and rhetoric does make for clearer thinking, and if the tools have been given to a child in the early years for good basic writing (spelling, grammar, basic composition skills), then that can lead to really awesome expression, on the page. There are many ways to skin a cat, as they say, and teaching children basic rhetorical skills doesn't have to be done through a "classical" method like the progymnasmata. For me, it comes down to a matter of reinventing the wheel, so to speak. That format has already been laid out, and served many people well for many years (centuries, lol), so...I'll use it. (Echoing those who suggest it's better for high school years, though. Our format is basic writing in early years, then more of a "classical" focus later.)

It's not that my teens aren't/haven't been prone to dissatisfaction with certain rules/requirements, or brain fog, or sleepiness (or wakefulness, depending on the hour...grr) as they've hit puberty...it's just that it hasn't been as dramatic as it was always laid out to me. Could it be that some of it is "normal", and some of it is response to the behavior? We've always allowed for free expression with respect, and that's something we've continued. I'll say that I just had one of those conversations with my oldest son, today (about appreciating when he feels that something's unfair, but still requiring that his approach be respectful), but again...not as dramatic as folks have always told me it would be, with teens. It gets resolved fairly easily. So...I guess I don't really know if it's genetic (we're talking two teens so far, who are quite different in most ways), or if something about our approach to/belief about teen years helps. ::Shrug:: Take what I say with a grain of salt, just in case. :D I believe kids need work. Not just chores, but meaningful work. I believe they need to feel respected. I believe they need to be required to show respect. Dh and I believe that along with increasing responsibilties, teens (and older kids) need increased freedoms. Can you have a talk with her about things like that, and link some responsibility and freedom for her? Something she wants to do, or would like to do, that can be tied to showing more responsibility in schoolwork/housework/attitude? Something that acknowledges she's growing up, but still reminds her that she's answerable to you? This is different than a rewards system. At least, it is, if you tie things together, logically. Just a thought. Forgive me if I'm off base.

If you're a Christian, you might consider looking at some books, for him, and for you guys, that deal with this topic from a Christian viewpoint. (Sex, specific questions, etc.) Talk to him about the dangers of what he'll see, just looking for "information" on the Internet, and how addictive p*rn can be. I'd be fine with taking away Internet access, but since you said you guys are so isolated, would you consider using a filter so that he could still use it to connect with friends? (*After* his restriction ends, of course). I don't prefer to have my kids' relationships take place primarily through computer contact, but if you guys aren't close to anyone, physically, I can see how that would be hard. He *will* have to learn how to fight the temptation, and be around a computer, eventually. Net Nanny or somesuch might make it easier until he's developed a more mature willpower, though. You can also find software that will let you check up on your users...even if they delete history. Might be worth looking into. (Sorry you're dealing with this additional stress.)

Not against the saying that 12yo is too young for romantic *involvement*, because I agree with that (at least in our current day and age, with the connotations we've set for "legal" ages to do this and that, college, etc.). But I would suggest not minimizing the fact that he's experiencing romantic *feelings*. 12yo is obviously not too young to *feel* those things, since he *is*. And only because I can imagine how it might feel, putting a situation out there and having the only responses that come say, "Wow...I can't imagine a 12yo having feelings like that!!!", etc., I'll share that we had a situation similar to yours with my then-12-yo son, and a neighbor girl. So, you're not the only one. :tongue_smilie: They "liked" each other. Decided to be "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". Held hands. Kissed at least once. (Sigh) And while we did effectively "shut it down", practically speaking ("We believe that 12yo is too young to have a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, and/or be any kind of physically intimate--it progresses too fast"), I would wholeheartedly, emphatically, and passionately urge you to not to shut him down. Just because you're shutting down a portion of this type of relationship (I think you risk making it even more attractive if you block all interaction with her) doesn't mean you have to close down communication about it. I believe he needs to express it (not to her, in private, but to you and Dad), and you need to uncover what it is that he's searching for, by diving into this sort of situation. Talktalktalktalktalk about it. And then talk about it, some more. Don't sweep it under the rug. Sometimes, I believe that sexual maturity comes early for some kids, and sometimes, it's fueled by trying to find something to fill a need. I was a kid who liked boys at 12yo, and I think it was a combination of those two things. ::Shrug:: People mature at different rates, and might need certain sorts of intervention at different ages, lol. (You might have a talk with one child at 12 that you don't need to have with another until 17). In other words...don't get too wrung out over this. I know that many times people decry the early sexualization of minor children in our culture, and I do agree that it's a problem...but for thousands of years, people were considered "mature" when they hit puberty, and sometimes, nature can arrive before we're ready for it. He's still young, but he is growing up, and I just hope that it doesn't worry or scare you, that he's experienced a different timetable than other kids. ((Hugs)) As for my son's story...he and the girl decided that they needed to stop being boyfriend/girlfriend. (I resisted the urge to reiterate that we TOLD them that, because in the end I believe it was more meaningful that they--or possibly just he--were convinced, rather than simply ordered. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with that, either, if it's the only way.) He went for a few years without expressing any sort of "like" for a girl, again, but now, at fourteen, he does like a friend of his sister's. And his fifteen year old sister likes one of HIS friends. (Sigh) As far as how we handle it...it's much the same as then. You're too young to have exclusive relationships. Marriage and all that stuff is years away (modern ways usually require some sort of college degree to maintain a family, so we've set that as a sort of suggestion about when marriage would make the most sense)...so what's the hurry? Have a wide circle of friends that can include possible beaus/girlfriends, and just keep it light, for now. (I hope that some of this rambling was useful...:tongue_smilie:)

I don't send friend requests. I mean, I might have sent a couple, at some point, early on, and I accept them, if someone sends them to me (and I notice, lol)...but it's just not a big part of my interaction here. I say that to reassure folks that I really like many, many people here...I just don't think to send friend requests. (And as someone else said, sometimes I look up a particular post by the poster--if I remember--or just get curious and look to see if there's a picture.) Don't take it personally! I'm sure others are friendly, and "like" you...they just might be ignoring some of the functions, like I am. :blush:

We're about that close to OKC, too. :001_smile:

Mama Bear said: Do not get in his face. Do not argue with him. He has the best of intentions, even if his argument was personal, even if his logic is flawed. Most dads, not all, but most, would dearly love to have the same quality and quantity time, fabulous interaction with the kids that us moms get to (or vice versa, depending on who's doing the bulk of the teaching/care). Most do not have time. I imagine that if your dh is made to feel part of the process, even as you are keeping around (and reading) stacks of picture books on Ancient Greece for example, that he'll back off a bit, be less adamant, and come to appreciate that you're working to cultivate a love for history and science in his beloved babies. You might want to tab the history and science sections in the three stages of TWTM and hand it to him, saying, "This is my ultimate vision for our kids' education. I'd love to know what you think about it since you loved those subjects so much and did so well in them yourself. And if you'd like to do the teaching, I'd be more than happy for you to spend that kind of time with the kids." It wouldn't be a bad idea to get yourself a copy of The Well-Educated Mind and let him see you reading it. And reading the selections listed therein. And making notes. And musing aloud to him about the interesting things you 've read. (How will he manage to argue with you when he begins to notice copies of Plato and etc. on the nightstand?) Granting him his due takes nothing from you but it does demonstrate your ability to function calmly under duress and ups your elemental gravitas, so to speak. In other words, unless he's just blustering, he then has to take you seriously because you're demonstrating your willingness to involve him (and not shut him out of this very important part of the kids' lives), as well as your ability to truly engage in the conversation he wants to have -- which means you know what you're talking about and can stand, unblinking, secure in that: you've got a plan, you're willing to re-evaluate as necessary, and you're making sure that your resources are beyond reproach. This is an awesome suggestion. He's a parent, too. He's concerned, just as you are. (About his ability to teach the kids). Mama Bear's solution is respectful, keeps you guys working as a team, and prepares for the eventuality that he realizes his schedule and patience aren't meshing well with active teaching. (I hope that's not the case, as I think an involved Dad could be a great asset to you). I'll just say....:iagree:

I hope you find what you're looking for. I think I've contributed all that I can to the conversation, but I'll read the rest of the replies with interest. We're obviously pursuing a similar path, but with a different priority. I wish you well in your journey!

But can you explain why it's more powerful than a simple phonics program?

I do sort of think that the type of mind training they received, their sort of education, was the kind that would have served them well in any situation/time/space continuum. (LOL) I believe in the power of Latin for training the mind, I believe in the formal study of logic and rhetoric. I believe that the skills you get from this type of education prepare you well for a number of eventualities, and computer literacy and the many other "needs" for this age are much more easily/quickly learned, later. I just don't know that we can accurately replicate Augustine's entire education in this day and age without some serious loss. Loss of connection to this world. The twenty-first century. Augustine didn't have a TV. He didn't have a burning need to play volleyball, and excell at it (I'm guessing, lol.). He didn't have buddies to talk to on the phone or catch up with every day on Facebook. And I don't know that his education was all that much fun for him. Not that my children have to have a continual circus, but I do want their time at home to be more enjoyable than some of the stories you read about medieval school situations. :001_smile: (Speaking of that...doesn't anyone else wonder if these great minds were people who were meant for intellectual greatness, anyway, and even the mind-numbing work load of an ancient form of education couldn't hold them back? I honestly don't know that my kids, bright as they are, are mini-Augustines in the making, if I only get the formula right. There were probably plenty of D students in the "class" of Aquinas, that simply didn't get famous, lol. Everyone in the ancient/medieval world who was educated was getting the same education, but we still seem to have the same ratio of great thinkers for every age. There might be a system that's more likely to produce a great thinker--and as I said above, I believe that the "classical" system is the closest to a timeless one--but that doesn't mean it works on every kid, in other words.) And while "cultural relevance" is generally spoken as a dirty word, I don't think there's anything wrong with a Christian living in the world, and being knowledgeable about it--even enjoying it a little--as long as he's not fundamentally "of" it. I think that training a kid to think doesn't always equate him/her becoming a thinker, unfortunately. For that, I think the teacher has to inspire. Stir up desire. The method is important, yes, but not nearly so much as the subjects and the intent. (IMO). I want them to examine God's word on their own, so I teach them to read. I want them to think critically, so I teach them logic. I want them to be able to express themselves well, so we learn to write and speak properly. (Rhetoric) But in order to put that information/training to the proper use, I have to inspire them to love God. That's something I believe is a strictly individual thing. I don't know that I can get my answers for that from looking at someone else's education. Someone else might be able to, but I'm convinced that the direction of my children's spiritual educations is something I have to seek guidance for, on my own, on a regular basis. I wish there were an easier answer, but I don't know that there is one. (Or, maybe I haven't come across it, yet. I'll keep looking at this thread, in case someone can point me to it. :-)

...I don't get the CLAA's huge problem with Sayer's suggested methodology; she says herself that what she's suggesting is a modified version of classical study. So what? So someone has an idea to marry child development with an old idea. ::Shrug:: (I'm not trying to make light of your concern about this...just wondering why they have such a problem with it. It's not like the word "classical" is copyrighted, lol, or has these specific definitions when you look it up in the dictionary. A lot of what we refer to as "classical" music is more accurately Baroque, but doesn't it seem odd to not consider Bach or Vivaldi "classical" composers? I know that's not an airtight comparison, but it illustrates how I feel when I see conversations about what's "classical education" and what isn't. Tomato, tomahtoe. ;))

...here's the thing; I'm not following one particular author/book/methodology/curriculum. Many here aren't. :001_smile: There's a little book called (simply) Classical Education by Gene Veith (I think, anyway...don't have it in front of me) that examines a variety of ideas about classical education. (There really are several, and IMO, all are worth looking at.) I mean, you have the Latin-centered folks, the neo-classical, liberal arts folks, and the Great Conversation people, who are more in line with the thinking of Mortimer Adler. "Classical" education isn't a neat, well-defined term, in other words. It can simply mean an education method espousing tried and true methods from the past. From a variety of sources. (That's what my personal definition is). Well, there, I can't help you. I think her speech/ideas were a catalyst for an examination of ideals from long ago, for many people, and probably inspirational in that regard...but the base of "modern" classical education? I don't know that I'd call it that, personally. The very term "modern classical education" could be the subject of a long, thoughtful debate. :D Look, I know this might seem simplistic...but what's wrong with examining a variety of sources and doing what makes sense? I don't get hung up on what a true classical education is, because that's not the main thing for me. The main thing is educating my kids in what I believe is the best way. That's why I read classical educators, Maria Montessori, Charlotte Mason, and others, and sift the ideas through my Christian, er, sifter. ;-) Whatever comes out, that's what I do. I don't care what anyone else calls it. ;)

Tell your husband you need the time, and don't give a second thought to what your MIL will think.

I haven't noticed that, per se, but I think you'll find a lot of overlap between Asperger's and other "issues". (ADHD, OCD, etc.) Kids diagnosed with Asperger's may have certain commonalities, but they're still individuals, and sometimes don't easily fit the AS 'mold'. My daughter doesn't really resemble other kids I've known with Asperger's, although I'm sure there are other kids like her. The lack of judgement may be an indivudal thing, or a symptom. ::Shrug:: (I'm sure that was helpful, LOL!)

This may vary from dr to dr, but the psychaitrist we saw used a few different written tests, as well as simply talking to me and dd and evaluating. One written test was for my husband and I to fill out (separately), and one was for dd. (She's old enough to read and write, I'm sure it would be administered to a child who is younger, or not yet literate). The results of the written tests give a scale, for autism/Asperger's diagnosis. (Either high, moderate, or low possibility).