I'm sorry. I think your logic is wrong. One is a demand to talk. One is a demand not to (particularly in light of the fact that I wrote asking to talk about this very thing, and she wrote back that she wanted to see me, but demanded that we didn't talk about it).

No, I don't want to talk about her "feelings" about me. I want to know why she behaved the way that she did.

I'm afraid that I don't get your logic. My demand included an ultimatum, but so did hers. I said I do want to talk about. She said she won't. I, at least, left the door open for her to talk in the future if she wants. I didn't say she "is" crazy, I said she acted crazy. But you are right that I don't trust her and maybe I am done with this relationship. I wish it weren't so. But I can't see any way around it. I have no desire to be in a relationship with someone who won't talk to me about the real issues. I would be walking on eggshells all the time wondering what was going to happen next.

Well, I'm not a scout mom, so I don't have this problem. If makes you feel any better, though, disorganization seems to be a problem endemic to all boys, not just yours. We did a co-op this past year and there were these long tables this kids had their stuff on. Girls? All in nice neat piles in front of their chairs. Boys? Paper every. Even on the floor. So, for the boys, organization is definitely a more learned skill.

Because if we're going to talk about "demands" then demands-to is only a different side of demands-not-to. They are both about "demanding" something of the conversation.

Explain to me, please, how it is demanding to want to talk through a problem, but not demanding to refuse to talk through a problem?

I would rather know. I can either explain myself if it's a misunderstanding, or apologize if I've done something wrong. But right now, without knowing, I have no way to know that she won't act crazy the next time something happens that she doesn't like. I can't trust someone like that.

I guess I just don't see how it's wanting someone to "bend to your will" to discuss a problem in a relationship, rather than pretending that it's all hunky-dory. I also don't see how it is any different than her not wanting to talk about it? In those terms, then she's trying to bend me to her will.

I have let the co-op go. As I said to her, I was not interested in talking her into or out of the co-op. BECAUSE the friendship is important, I wanted to understand how she saw things. She behaved terribly to a group of people who bent over backwards to give her her way in the co-op and tore it apart. I would like to at least understand *why* she behaved this way if I ever have a chance of trusting her again. I need to know that when she says to me "it's all good" that it actually is.

I feel ya. We are 4 in 700 sq ft. My 13 and 2 year old are sharing a bedroom that is like 8x10. But there is no other choice. I guess it's all about perspective. Our ancestors wouldn't have batted an eye. And city people still routinely live at this level of crowding. Luckily for us, we live in the woods and I have boys, so I routinely send them to the woods to pee if I want the bathroom. We utilize the outdoors a lot. I don't like people indoors unless they are too tired to move around much.:D The only good advice I can give is get rid of stuff until it hurts. Wait a week. Then get rid of stuff again. Personally, I have gotten to the point where I will tell my older one to take clothes off and put in the giveaway bag, if I notice he's wearing something too small. I don't even want it cycling back through the wash again. Good luck!

Good for you. In my experience most of the families I know have way too many clothes and not nearly socks and underwear. I believe you need 3 pairs of pants (or two if you like to run close the rails), 3 shirts, and 15 pairs of socks and underwear. All socks and underwear should be white and the same (that way you don't have to match them and can toss singles when they get holes). Makes life easier.

Ok, it's long, it's complicated, so if you're easily bored...I would abandon it now. I bring it here for insight, because you all wouldn't know the players, so I can talk about it to nuetral people without gossiping. Me and three other friends started a little co-op for our kids. The friends were myself, T, J, and R. We had a lady from out church (K), a scientist by trade, offer to come and teach a physics class. Because the kids ranged in ages from 12-17 in that class she decided to use the Apologia Physical Science book. This class was to last for two hours. Meanwhile, J would teach the three youngest boys (10 year olds all with slight developmental delays), 1 hour each of science and 1 hour of social studies. J did all the planning and provided all of the materials. Because the three boys had delays, most activities were hands on, very little seat work (paper mache, map making, painting, building, etc). So the first two hours (physics for the teens, social studies/science for the little boys) we can call session 1. Session two, the little boys got to play under T and R's supervision, while J taught math (basically pre-algebra) to the teens. At the beginning of the year, we had another lady from our church (who had been a math teacher) come and give the kids a math test so that she could assess their readiness for algebra. Basically, she said only two of the kids were ready for algebra. So J was teaching pre-algebra in the hopes of getting them ready for algebra, so the teacher would come back in the following fall (this coming September) as she said she really didn't want to teach anything under algebra. I have a toddler, so I was really just dropping off my teenager. R, who had six kids (4 teenagers and 2 young boys), was not teaching, but would hang out during the day. T had a 12 year old and also did not teach, but did hang out during the day, chatting with R. Before I go further, I should say that we were all really good friends. J, T, and I had been friends for about 10 years. R had also been friends with all of us for 5 years. For a long time we used to meet weekly to discuss spiritual books we were reading. These were also serious Christian women. Over the course of the year, there were some things (as expected) that different people weren't happy with. Me: The science teacher was late...every.single.class. Sometimes 1/2 hr, routinely 15 minutes. She also was almost never prepared to do the experiments (which was really the only reason I had signed my son up for this, because I don't generally like co-ops because of llama drama). Almost none of them worked because she didn't have the stuff, or the right stuff, etc. Also, the pace was glacial. From Oct to May they got through 4 units (Apologia is set up for 1 unit taking two weeks). I wanted to talk to the science teacher and find out if we could up the pace and what she needed from us to make that work. I wasn't able to because T thought it was the height of rude and mean to question someone who was teaching our children for free. I disagreed, because I believe when you say you are going to do something, you do and you do it right. But nothing got done. T: Basically said she was thrilled with everything, LOVED the science teacher, and wanted her son (12) exposed to her because she such a good Christian. In fairness, I think her son was probably out of his depth in that group of kids, because he was also working way below grade level (something about "he can only do 1 thing per day", but I never understood why that was). J: Was not happy about the science pace, but willing to tolerate it, because her two teens were in that and her young son was in with the little boys. She was the one who organized this co-op so that she would have some accountability to get her kids to get their work done. R: Had a number of complaints, but they often didn't make sense and this is basically what began the problems. She would get mad because J was sometimes late (R, like myself, is very punctual), but not because K or T were late (T is her BFF) - even though they were always late and always later than J. She would get mad repeatedly about small things way out of proportion (once she asked the 12 year old boy to move a table, and he got that "stupid boy...I can't remember what a table is" look, and she got really mad, was crying, and walked out of the building...but the kid was clearly not being defiant, he was being stupid/12), but they she would not talk about them. If you asked her about her upset, she would just respond, "it's all good!!" and refuse to talk about it more. This started small but slowly, slowly escalated until around Christmas. At that point she told me all of the things (I thought) that she was mad about. People were late, she didn't know what her kids' homework was for the pre-algebra class, she was always the first one there to set-up and clean-up, etc. So I said fine. I called a meeting and we made a plan to dole out jobs, reiterate the need for people to be on time, etc. I thought that solved it. Fast forward to late Feb. I was talking to J on the phone one day and she said I should think about what I want to do next fall. At that point, tensions had mostly died back and I was excited by the possibility of a long-term co-op where my older son could mature with other people who shared the same faith. So I sent out this email to the moms that basically asked: what has worked for you this year, what hasn't, what should change, what do you want for next year...etc. I specifically told them to be *brutally* honest about what they needed so that we could get something in place that would work for everyone. R and T never did answer the email. I did and J did. After a month of back and forth emails, we finally had a meeting. J couldn't be there, but she had basically let us know what she wanted. We made a plan for things, part of which included teaching chemistry next year, because R's oldest had already had biology. Upon being told that we were doing chemistry next year, J (who probably would have had to teach it, because K wasn't interested) said that she really didn't think most of the kids had the math for chemistry and she made her case for biology. There was a flurry of emails back and forth about the pro/cons of chemistry and biology. Eventually, R sends an email that we can just forget all about it, she's done. She won't be coming back to co-op. She refused to discuss anything further. Despite pleading for her to say what the problem was. Eventually, I decided to withdraw my son right after Easter, because there wasn't going to be a co-op the next year and I didn't want to waste any more time on the glacial pace of the physics class. Later, eventually, R discloses that it wasn't her oldest who had had biology, it was all of her teens. Like we were supposed to know that? And she made a comment with it that J and I would not have found her program rigorous enough (neither of us have the slightest idea what her program was to even begin to pass judgement on it, nor would we, all she had to do was say "my kids have already had biology"). And so, the co-op collapses. If this all seems insane to you, it's because it is. I can't figure it out. This was one of my very best friends, and she turned into a crazy person. Fast forward to May. I send her an email and say, "Look, I'd really like to get together and talk with you about what happened with co-op. I want to understand how you see things. Please know, that I have no intention of talking you into doing or not doing anything with co-op, because I am done with it and so have no dog in that fight. My only interest is in understanding your feelings because I am your friend and I care." She replied that she would love to see me, but she would talk about anything except co-op. I replied to her that it was exactly the thing that I *did* want to talk about, because I didn't want to sweep it under the rug and wanted the opportunity to make things right, if I could. She still refused. So I told her to let me know when she was ready to talk, but that I wasn't interested in a relationship where we ignore the elephant in the room. I have still not heard from her. I am flabberghasted by all of this, and heartbroken at the loss of a friend. Her and T still hang out, apparently (though I haven't heard from T at all, either), but she will have nothing to do with me or J (she actually unfriended J on FB and unsubscribed to an email list for prayer requests, no chit-chat, that J runs). This is truly the most insane thing I have ever experienced and I can't make heads or tails of it.

I can see all of your logic and I basically agree. However, I think you are missing the fact that this idea, IF it is a bad one, is likely to be self-correcting. So, in order to prevent her from going into a career just to spite you, I would get all on board with the idea. You've already said she has a hard time with dissections and that you are going to do A&P. Great. LOTS of dissections. Get excited about them. Get her to look at the catalogs for dissection equipment and help pick some stuff out. Also, get her busy exploring the world of nursing. It's a HUGE world. She could be a pediatric nurse, geriatric, oncology, mental health, etc. Arrange several times that she can interview and shadow someone in different kinds of nursing jobs. Watch videos about nursing on the internet. Watch videos on the internet showing some of the things she will need to do (start IV lines, assist in surgery, etc). Also talk to her about the educational needs of different levels of nurses (she really, really doesn't want to be a low level nurse, very limited options for them and very hard work, I would encourage her to get a BSN) and make a plan to align her current schooling with that. Either all of this career exploration will make her decide that nursing is WAY too gross....or it might help solidify a career choice for her. Either way, it's a win and she won't have made a reactionary choice. Just because she doesn't have a natural aptitude, doesn't mean that she can't or shouldn't. Having known a lot of very smart and very successful people I will tell you that hardworking beats smart ANY day of the week.

Under no circumstances would I allow her to progress to Algebra until she has those math operations down COLD. She might seem to do ok in the beginning while she is in the review section of the book, but as she gets into longer and longer processes, she it's going to take her an excruciatingly long amount of time to complete them because she is going to have to think about steps that should come automatically to her. The primary cause of Algebra failure isn't lack of intelligence or even lack of discipline, it's lack of fundamentals. That said, I don't think that is absolutely necessary to put her through an entire pre-algebra course if she *almost* has those fundamentals. Instead, I would talk to her about it and together create a pre-algebra summer intensive. Some of this will include simply doing practice problems. But I would also do other things like, have her write instructions for how to multiply fractions, as if she were writing a letter to a friend. Having to think out the description that way will do a lot to help her memory of those processes. I might have her design and make a post of some of the processes that she is still a little shaky on. Come up with different ways for her to look at and engage with the material. It sounds like her biggest problem is that she just hasn't done enough yet to create permanent memory of the procedures. Again, I would talk to her about it and try to get some buy-in to the concept. Let her know that you *want* to move her on to Algebra, but you want to set her up to succeed first. Good luck!

The only thing I find to watch on Netflix anymore is documentaries. They have all the PBS/Ken Burns documentaries available to stream. Practically no movies. A few old things (some great Fr. Brown shows from the '70s) that are nice. They do have all the big sci-fi shows, but I've seen them all. We just got Amazon Prime to try out. Need to compare it to the Netflix inventory, but we might be switching because I like the 2-day shipping that goes with Amazon Prime. We do have Redbox here and very occasionally we'll get a movie, but it's a difficult place to get in and out of across the highway, and 15 minutes away, so not very convenient. I would rather pay $3 to stream a movie then have to make the trip out to get the movie and the trip back to return it the next day. If we *don't* switch to Prime I might switch to Netflix + DVDs. I'm not thrilled with the price increase, but I am thinking this: right now, streaming + 2 DVDs would be about $20, I'm stalling on that price increase over $8 for streaming only - YET - just a few years ago I was paying $17 for DVDs only and was thrilled. So, it's not really much of a price increase, over time, and I don't have any sort of cable or satellite, so my monthly TV bill is still pretty cheap. Plus I don't have to get special wiring in my house (not wired for cable or satellite) and I don't have to sign a contract. Both big pluses with me. Yeah, I'm probably just going to add DVDs back to my Netflix sub. Ha! Talked myself right into it! :lol:

I don't think you understood my statement. My point was that I view childrearing as a vocation, a sacred calling, not mere work. I don't believe there is anything wrong with a person (man or woman) having a career, but I don't think it is even in the same league as something like the raising of children. No job or career, absolutely none, matter at all in the way that it matters whether we do a good job with our children. I believe it to be an apples to oranges discussion. Almost useless, really. If I WERE going to talk about careerism and motherhood on the same playing field, I would use the words of GK Chesterton: “To be Queen Elizabeth within a definite area, deciding sales, banquets, labors, and holidays; to be Whitely within a certain area, providing toys, boots, sheets, cakes, and books, to be Aristotle within a certain area, teaching morals, manners, theology, and hygiene; I can understand how this might exhaust the mind, but I cannot imagine how it could narrow it. How can it be a large career to tell other people’s children about the Rule of Three, and a small career to tell one’s own children about the universe? How can it be broad to be the same thing to everyone, and narrow to be everything to someone? …a woman’s function is laborious, but because it is gigantic, not because it is minute.†~G.K. Chesterton

Wow. What a utilitarian view of humanity she has. If our purpose is to serve the marketplace, then we are mere things. And if we are mere things, then really, who cares what we do?

I will say this...I've had two sets now from "The Great Courses" and I haven't been thrilled with either of them. They weren't awful, but they were nothing I would build a course around. Many people love TGC, so I'm guessing there is unevenness between the various courses. If at all possible, I would get the lecture set you are thinking of using and preview at least some of the lectures first, to see if it's really something you want to invest time and money into.

I also don't really see the problem with him sleeping on the floor. He's a young, strapping man. He's fine. I have a friend whose two 18 and 20 year old sons are planning to live and sleep in the back of a minivan for a year while they work the oil fields in North Dakota and save money. They definitely won't be comfortable, but it will be good for them. Not only because they'll be earning money, but they'll be learning how to deal with daily discomfort in the service of a larger goal. I think it's great. Too many boys are being raised to be soft these days, IMO.

You might want to read the book "Better Off". It's about a couple that chooses to live for a year like Amish people as an experiment to see what it's like. Having read that book, I can see how pioneer women might have had "me time" (especially if you define that as quiet time alone doing something that is at least not difficult).

I agree. Calling it a career is degrading to the vocation of childrearing...and inappropriately upgrading of mere careerism.

I haven't read all the comments here, but I just have to say that I have always found the notion of "having it all" to be stupid beyond human toleration. It's not a feminism issue, a family/work issues, a career vs. child raising issue, it's an ADULT issue. You can't have it all. No one can. And the idea that an entire group of people bought into it makes my head explode for the gullibility of some people. All of us make choices. This *reality* way predates feminism. Eve could bite the apple or obey, but she couldn't do both. My husband can have the lights on or play trombone all day, but he can't do both. I can have $400 or a drum carder, but I can't have both. Way beyond the issue of whether, how, and how much mothers should work, "having it all" is poster child of stupidity and the sooner we get rid of it the better off humanity, not just women, will be.

We live in Maryland. It was $35 per session, straight out of pocket, because our insurance wouldn't cover it.

I'm another one with a late talker. My 13 yo didn't say boo until 2.5. Then he started speaking in correct sentences. I think he was just working on other things. Now he won't.shut.up.

I understand your concerns completely and I think you are probably right not to want to be involved in a government agency. Unlike another poster, I know that it's just not true (even if it is logical) that they don't want to chase people down. They do, they will, they love it. I will encourage you to get an evaluation by a private speech therapist. They aren't that expensive. My son did speech therapy for a year when he was 8. We never entertained the idea of getting involved with the school/government service. We just paid the $35 a week and dealt with it. Totally worth the money considering the hassle we avoided.