Twinmom, I will hold you in my prayers. You've received some real wisdom in this thread already, and I'm not sure I can add to it - maybe say it differently - but I'm giving hearty nods to those who have been stating that forgiveness is not a feeling, it is a decision. World's version of forgiveness: to say "it's okay", to accept the offender fully back into your trust, to feel warm fuzzies toward the offender and forget all about the offense. This version dooms us to fail to forgive according to the world's definition, because our flesh cannot forget and we can't drum up the warm fuzzies. The truth: forgiveness is a choice, a decision, to not hold the offense against the offender. To not remind them of the offense, and to not remind ourselves of the offense. It is an act of the will. The desire to forgive is from God, the power to forgive is from God, the ability to forgive is from God. Cry out to Him for all of it. It's not about trusting the offender again; she'll need to earn that and that might not be possible, at least not to a full extent. It's not about feeling fuzzy toward her; it's about loving her with agape love that stems from God, not fuzzy love but love that wants His best for her. It is about obeying God's clear instruction to love one another and forgive one another's offenses as we have been forgiven. Shannon831's post was spot-on. Often, we are angry at God for derailing our plans and changing our agendas. I'm not sure I can put into words how blasphemous it feels to me to realize that about myself - what right does the clay have to say anything to the Potter about what He is doing? 'God can never make us into wine if we object to the fingers He uses to crush us.' ~ Oswald Chambers. 'Pride is self, contending with God for pre-eminence.' ~ Charles Bridges The Word has been teaching me much about the flesh lately, and I see the struggle to forgive as a classic example of the battle between flesh (our human nature) and the Spirit's work in us to conform us to the image of the Son. If I may make a suggestion, it would be to go soak in God's Word. Specifically, Romans 5-8 about living victoriously over our flesh. In Christ, we have the victory. Our flesh (unwillingness to forgive) no longer enslaves us. The Psalms are a beautiful way to put words to our anguish - pray them out loud to God. The most powerful, life changing prayer I've ever prayed is Psalm 139:23-24. Search me, know me, change me. The offender, the offense - that's outside my sphere of control. Search me, change me. Take this ugly burden off my back, Lord, I cannot carry it. Finally, "be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer (proseuchomai - worshipping God for who He is - acknowledge His sovereignty over all) and supplication (deasis - cry out for help) with thanksgiving (eucharistia - gratitude for past, present, and future) let your requests (aiteo - a specific request in line with God's will) be made known to God. Look at the four steps outlined there: acknowledge God's sovereignty - stop objecting to the Potter - and cry out for help. Thank Him for His work in you in the past and in this situation and in the future. Be specific in your request, knowing that to forgive others is absolutely in His will for you. What happens? "The peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Peace. His peace. GO for it! Seek it! Your feelings toward this other person, and indeed any relationship you may have with her in the future, is not the end objective here. Peace with God is. "The only thing that will enable me to enjoy adversity is the acute sense of eagerness of allowing the life of the Son of God to evidence itself in me. No matter how difficult something may be, I must say, "Lord, I am delighted to obey you in this." Instantly, the Son of God will move to the forefront....Our circumstances are the means God uses to exhibit just how wonderfully perfect and extraordinarily pure His Son is." ~ Oswald Chambers Praying for you. :grouphug:

I'm so glad you did! Way to go! :D

I frankly forget who dubbed him thus - but that certainly doesn't mean he speaks for me as my pastor. :001_smile:

I think this came across more, um, irritably than I meant! I just was thinking about whether non-religious people were concerned about "America's pastor" interviewing the pres. candidates. Sorry if my question seemed snotty!

:grouphug: I'm praying for your cake and for your peace of mind, Julie!

Glad to see that first part, but curious why responses have bothered you. ?:001_smile:?

I was blissfully? woefully? unaware of the event. Now I have to contend with a sick desire to see how Rick Warren is qualified to moderate a political discussion. Just out of the same sick curiosity, are the "firm boundary between state and religion" people having a conniption about this?

It's an issue because I joined the board recently, and I started this thread to inquire about the practice. Mea culpa. I've no intention of "making" it into anyone's issue or concern. I'm not trying to challenge any established traditions, I simply wanted to understand the back story. It appears that there are some, like me, who think the practice is perhaps hypocritical and perhaps points to some hypersensitivity. We've just been fleshing that out by looking at why it has been done and what people perceive it to mean. If this is not relevant to your experience, feel free to ignore the thread! :001_smile:

and i thought you people were my friends.......... waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

My JC or BC or AC notations were a tongue-in-cheek attempt to make my point. :) Sorry if that wasn't clear enough! I appreciate everyone's help in understanding the background of the CC notation. I still wonder about it, though, from this perspective: I realize that there are people who would take offense at anything overtly or covertly religious, or who would not consider a religious viewpoint or suggestion to be applicable. I realize that it is courteous to be considerate of such. I just wonder if it is fair to think others might extend such courtesy in return - or is it only Christians who are so potentially offensive, or whose advice is so potentially non-applicable? I also realize that's a pretty steep cliff to start rolling down, with much moss to accumulate - "warning: content might offend Taoists, certain Arabian nomadic tribes, or possibly even Tibetan rock-dwelling marmots." <--(poor attempt at humor again) Or, preferably, what if we all stop being so offendable and simply look past that which is not of our particular persuasion? I'm not holding myself above reproach here; after all, I'm bringing up something before y'all that is offensive to me, namely, that there appears to be a sort of expectation placed upon Christians, and only Christians, to walk carefully on tiptoes with a hushed voice. I'm not personally wounded, or trying to rock a boat I only climbed into recently. Seriously. Just been pondering this in the greater context of what I consider sickening amounts of political correctness that is evident in our current culture.

Editing errors in printed books make me twitch to the point that I have to just put.them.away.forever. Its a sad day when the children no longer love they're books and instead take up the remote control. Makes you're heart break, does'nt it? Your going to have to take drastic action to insure that the affects don't stunt there learning of grammer. <-----completely manufactured sentence designed to make the ... quirky ... amongst us twitch. I have to go take my medication before I can press the "submit" button on this one. It will send me into convulsions to see it on a public forum with my name on it.

:iagree: Pray, pray, pray - seek how you can serve the Lord by honoring His word in this situation. Remember, the goal is always restoring unity within the body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 6 ... why not rather be wronged?

Don't bother with growing your hair out - just glue honey buns onto your head. :D

:iagree::iagree::iagree: in contrast to the Swedish wrestler who stormed out after losing his match, threw his bronze to the floor in disgust, and was eventually disqualified and stripped of his medal. Shame on him. SHAME on him.

At this very moment, dh is wearing ds's Jedi cloak, hood pulled over his eyes. DS just came running upstairs telling me there is a Sith lord in our playroom and do I know where the blue light saber is? Geeks. I'd rather browse the bookstore too! I hope you enjoy your evening!

Understood - and I certainly don't want to invite a re-hashing of any old issues! I just wonder why I only see Christians doing this.

Oh - mercy - this is me, too. I am blessed/cursed with the ability to spell durn neer anyfing, and it makes me NUTTS to see mispelled words and misgrammered sentences. :smilielol5:

I've been known to flip the TP rolls, re-fold towels, and even straighten up stuff on the shelves in other people's houses. Personally, I prefer "nutty as a fruitcake". :D

I notice some posters put (CC) on titles to advise of Christian content. Just wondering why I don't see "BC" or "JC" or "AC" for Buddhist or Jewish or atheist content. :001_smile: I truly don't mean this to come across as accusatory or nit-picking. Just can't see why the Christians need to advise. It appears to me that we're bright enough to notice religious content and skip over it if we aren't of that particular persuasion. Thoughts?

Michelle, I want to encourage you to pray and go to Scripture over this, preferably with your husband, before you discuss it or take any further action. Your length of membership, giving, and (for lack of a better word) good behavior in church doesn't matter - the issue is that there is strife between you and your pastor. This needs to be reconciled. The body of Christ should not be divided (I Cor 12). I think you need to consider whether this is a "sin against you" (as in a Matthew 18 issue) or simply an issue that requires better communication and clarification. This is not an issue to leave your church over. Your pastor or elder living in unrepentant sin? Yep. Needing to clarify members' access to using church property? Nope. Matthew 5:22-24. :001_smile:

Melmac, if you have time, could you tell me what's different about SP that you love?

I just hang mine upside down by their toes in the closet. It's nice and quiet, once they stop hollering.

Not only do I think it's appropriate to warn others in the ministry, I think you must. There are many people who would not be able to handle this man's behavior, which sounds to me like it's possibly mental illness (beyond just being tactless). If I were one of your co-laborers in this ministry, I would greatly appreciate a warning given in the vein of, 'this man's behavior is occasionally like _______ and here is how you might handle it.'

What do you do? This is our second year of home school. We have tweaked a few things here and there - more emphasis on the stuff that is really working, dropped a couple things that were not working - as I'm sure we all do. We've been using Spelling Workout (on SWB's rec in WTM) and while it's not been a disaster by any means, it's also not bowling me over with success. My kids struggle with some things, but not reading/spelling, so it's not like I'm needing something to help a struggling speller. I am seeing why some of you have said SWO feels like busywork. I'm not sure what is really sticking with them, but it does give them some independent work, they like the pages, and I like how SWO puts the words to use. Maybe I'm just asking for spelling advice. Or advice on how to determine if you need to change something that is working okay but not stupendously. Maybe I just need more coffee. Feel free to discuss. :D

We just made Jell-o cell models yesterday! Resealable baggie = cell membrane yellow JellO = cytoplasm big gumdrop = nucleus raisins = mitochondria small green grapes = chloroplasts for the plant cells etc. The kids LOVED this one!