Is there a CDROM or video component for Horizons? We've been using the Saxon Teacher CDROMs. I haven't researched the upper levels. I'll add it to my list of things to look into.

This year our math is going from bad to worse. My 12 yo dd was making strong As and Bs in Saxon 8/7 until the end of 2nd Q, but now she's making Ds - it's like her brain has left her body!!! I know the work is incremental and gets more difficult as the book progresses. I also know that she probably has a strong case of 'puberty brain.' What I don't know is how to fix this!! :( She needs something with regular reinforcement of previously learned concepts - I don't think it matters if it's spiral or simply requires her to apply the concepts as she builds on them. I think she genuinely needs more time to master each thing as she learns but I'm finding it impossible to see where the issues are until it shows up on a test. She never consistently misses just one thing so I could go back and teach that thing! One day she's totally fine with circumference of a circle, the next day she's giving me the area instead and staring blankly at me when I ask to see her work (usually a jumble of multiplication with no clear formula set up despite me showing her about 100 times). If I could isolate a specific problem, I'd be happy to work more supplemental problems with her or even try a 'Key to Algebra' book or something! Seriously? Wits end. So I definitely think we need another prealgebra program for fall (if not before)! I don't see how she could make it in Algebra 1 next year for 8th. I'm fine with that, but I don't want to jump ship to something that will compound our problem - ie more mastery but not enough spiral, so she does the problems enough to understand them but then forgets them again! Will Lial's Prealgebra fit this bill? Or do we want Lial's BCM? She wants a 'pretty book' which I can see coming from Saxon (lol) I just want something she can DO! I've also looked into Dolciani and online options like Derek Owens or Tablet Class. Just feeling mired in our math mediocrity right now! Ugh!! I know she thinks she won't need any of this when she's older, despite our efforts to show her a variety of applications for math and assure her that she will need at least some of these skills for more than just a good score on the ACT! Help?!?

I've not done AoPS, but having worked through Saxon, I think most of the prealgebra content is in 8/7, so is I think 7/6 is where you would leave off that curriculum.

Thanks! All of this makes a lot of sense. I think we'll wait until she has a solid understanding of Algebra 1 - so for us, either 9th or 10th. As a side note, this really helps clarify for me why I had such a horrible experience with proof-based geometry as an algebra-challenged 8th grader!!!!

I'm using spiral for my oldest (Saxon) and it's been the best thing for her up to this point. I think she actually needs a combo of mastery and spiral now that she's hitting algebra, so we might not stay with Saxon forever. It's been a solid experience for her because she would very likely forget previously learned concepts if she didn't have to circle back to them every day!

I thought I read on the BJU site that if you wanted to test your kids, you also had to be testing non-related children at the same time? I'm an approved tester but I wasn't thinking of hosting a testing play date. LOL Has anyone else run across this odd guideline or am I hallucinating it? ;)

I'm looking at Bible Study for all Ages but I'm wondering what else is similar? I'm looking for something I can do with my 4-8th graders in the fall. I would prefer it to be somewhat self-guided (other than me reading the Bible verse/lesson) so that they can all work at their own pace. As in, I can read the lesson to them and then they can complete the questions/worksheets without too much additional input.

Thinking ahead for DD's HS years, I wondered when everyone is planning to do geometry - if you plan to do it as a separate course? I've heard mixed suggestions on when to place it. If we end up doing more prealgebra in 8th, I'm debating whether to try it in 9th before tackling Algebra 1 and 2. Anyone want to share their plans? I know this is a HS question but I figured it impacts our choice for 8th so maybe others are also thinking about it?

Language 2 is actually their writing program. We did it with limited success and many tears. In hindsight, it was a terrible fit for my reluctant writer. He was trying hard but it was just way too much "free thought" writing for his age/stage. We switched to Winning with Writing this year and are using it in conjunction with Growing with Grammar. I like both programs. We don't plan to use WWW indefinitely, but as a bridge between learning the steps to writing and being confident enough to start "free thought" writing on their own, I found it a good tool. That said, we also used Abeka Letters and Sounds 2 and really DID like it. I would call that the "phonics" part of the program (rather than formal grammar), which is pretty much all the grammar a 2nd grader needs IMO. I used it because it was a continuation of the way my son was taught (using Abeka) in school prior to us starting HS.

We've used Abeka for K - 3 because it's what they were using at their previous school. I've found it to be very open and go. I usually go over the new concept for the day if they need help, then watch while they do the practice problems. Typically takes about 15 minutes. Once they complete the work, I grade it and we go over corrections together. I found it to be very self-directed. We're considering switching to Singapore because my DS is ready for something different and I want to be sure he's ready for the math/sciences I know he'll need for his likely future career path.

We have MotH but are currently reading Building Language. I think my DS likes MCT mostly because we sit and read it quietly together. ;) I'm not sure how much the content even has to do with his enjoyment of the curriculum! So far we've read and discussed Sentence Island, the first Mud trilogy book, and half of Building Language. He really enjoys it. I'm hoping MotH will be the same, but since I'm mostly just reading them with him for a gentle intro to these topics, rather than a full curriculum, if it yields nothing more than some quiet reading time together, I'm ok with that.

Looking on the website, is the IP what they call "Extra Practice for Primary Math STD ED 4?" I see they offer tests - is there a reason not to use them? We're used to testing with Abeka.

So if the IP is the US edition, do the scope and sequence/chapters match up (mostly) with the Standards edition? I like the idea of having mental math and also word problems!

Ok, thanks! A few more questions . . . does the IP provide practice problems for the work learned in the textbook? Is it at a more challenging level - ie the student completes the textbook problems and then moves on to the IP problems for further practice/challenge (vs using the workbook for additional reinforcement at the same level - not challenge, just repetition)? Tests - Are there tests with Singapore? Drills - I already have the Saxon 5/4 drill book - I wondered about doing these daily drills for additional skill. They take less than 5 minutes. Too much? Already covered in Singapore somehow?

This sounds *exactly* like my 9 year old! To a 't'!! Did you take the placement test for Singapore or have you always used it from day 1? What does the workbook offer vs the IP? I've heard of some people using the IP a level behind as reinforcement or review and using the workbook concurrently. However, if I plan to use BA slightly behind, I don't want math overkill! Like you said, he doesn't live for math, he just wants it to be new and interesting! ;)

I've got one on our schedule for next week - but I'm having my DD follow a reading schedule from her Beautiful Feet guide. When I was planning it, the notes in the guide mentioned it can feel disjointed (Columbus and Sons) so they've scheduled it over 3 weeks with page numbers and questions hopping around the book. I guess we'll see how it goes?? I did think it seemed like a fun way to read the history of that period - all interwoven with the world events of the time.

OK, I know that these math programs are about as different from each other as chalk and cheese, but that's really my issue. I have a little guy with an engineering brain who reads his Abeka 3 math lesson every day, declines additional help (most of the time - other than when we learned long division) and makes 100% on almost every test (unless he makes a simple calculation error). I originally planned to move him on to Saxon 5/4 next year because his sisters have been doing Saxon and it's what the private school our kids used to attend uses for K - 12 math. Now I think he'll do "fine" with Saxon, but he's already saying this year "I don't like math" and last year it was his favorite subject. I can't decide if that's because he's having to "think" a little more (long division rocked his world a little because it took him a few weeks to master, rather than a few minutes). I'm concerned that he's going to be bored. to. tears. I'm not necessarily thinking that math needs to be the light of his life (it certainly isn't for my "non-mathy" oldest DD) but I really do think he's headed for a STEM career (whereas she wants to be an actress LOL). I just want him to be curious enough to keep pursuing it, because in the long run, I know he's going to need it! So, questions . . . Is Beast Academy a "full curriculum" and if so, coming from Abeka 3, where do we start? I know BA is supposed to be advanced and the level 4 books aren't out yet - would I start with 3 D and go from there as they release the new books? Is Singapore rigorous enough to be used alone? Or do I need to supplement word problems and drills etc? (I really don't want to do this if possible) I've read all over their website - I'm guessing Standards edition is the one to use? Which books would I order. I plan to give him the placement test for 4a. I know Abeka and Saxon are considered "boring" curriculum choices, but I think they do "work" in terms of producing good, consistent test scores for the kids that can tolerate their systematic (aka boring) approach. I'm nervous to jump ship from the tried and true, but I also don't want to make my little guy loathe math in 4th grade! My middle DD disliked Abeka 4 so much last year (so much division!!) but she is doing very well with Saxon this year. Sometimes I feel like I just know of too many options! It's much more difficult to pick the "right one" with so many choices!!!!

Thanks so much, Derek! :)

So I've decided it would be beneficial to have one or both of these on hand for additional practice or presenting material in a different way etc., but when I look on Amazon there is an overwhelming number of choices!! Can someone give me an ISBN or edition specifics? Also, are there solutions in the back or do I need a teacher edition/solutions manual for that? I know someone mentioned having answers to the odds in the back but I can't find which book has that. I'm thinking I might want pre algebra and algebra.

Giving your post a 'bump!' :) I don't know how to answer all of your questions because we've only used MCT to supplement our LA line-up (GWG and WWW, Abeka Spelling) but we love it!!! So far we've read through Sentence Island and are about halfway through Building Language. I plan to read Music of the Hemispheres in 4th quarter. We're also reading the new Mud trilogy books (based on Mud the fish - introduced in Setence Island). I'm looking into doing IEW next year, but that would just replace our WWW curriculum for writing, not any of the MCT books we've used. I think whether or not it ends up being 'too much' would depend on how you plan to use MCT and IEW. For example, you could do the entire MCT program for LA, and then after viewing the TWSS DVDs, choose to use IEW to implement 'writing across the curriculum.' I think the programs would compliment each other just fine like that. Again, I don't use all the components of MCT so I can't speak from experience, but hopefully someone else will chime in! :)

I asked a similar question this week and got some helpful feedback - try looking into Derek Owens, Jann in TX, or Tablet Class. :)

Looks good! My (3) lefties all use A Reason For Handwriting. I think it depends on the student - my little guy did really well. The girls both learned Abeka cursive in our previous school and ARFH is a vast improvement for them! ;)

My 3rd grader is 9 (since August) and like the pp said, I do believe it's made a huge difference for us. We spend 2 - 3 hours between 9am - 11:30 on spelling, bible/handwriting, grammar, writing, and math. We do science or history after lunch (depending on the day) for 30 - 45 minutes. Electives like French, computer skills, current events/news, and art - we fit these in around 15 - 30 minutes depending on the day. He also reads independently for 30 - 60 minutes while I'm working with his sisters or grading papers etc. He doesn't consider reading 'schoolwork' though because he enjoys it. ;)

I agree and I'd love to involve her, but my main concern with this kiddo is that she just doesn't like math at all. She is a "get it done" type and many of her friends are using TT. I'm concerned with TT for many reasons. Her main reason for thinking she would like it, is that is seems "easy" to her. All the pretty pictures and little cartoon characters. *sigh* I'm thinking I'd find myself back-tracking to fill in the blanks when she wasn't able to handle a standardized test in the future. I'm definitely open to other options. This thread has been a very intersting read! I wish I could find an Algebra "flow chart" to show me - for x student, use this program, for y student use this program etc. LOL Would make my decisions so much easier! I managed to make it through AP calculus. I'm able to teach her right now and probably through Algebra 1, but she's probably better off with a strong text and/or a CD-rom to help us both out. I really don't think I can handle the upper-level math without seriously revisiting it myself (and I don't really have the time/brain-power to do that right now with the stages of my other 2). I'm definitely all ears about which programs I should check into. This is only our 2nd year HS and the private school we left uses Saxon all the way through. We just went with it because it seemed to be "solid" but I'm not especially attached to it. LOL ;)

I didn't think I was a fence-straddler until I started researching my options! DD1 is finishing up Saxon 8/7 (3rd Ed with pre algebra) and I was heading for Algebra 1. I'm not sure why Saxon is considered 'unpopular' as a pp mentioned ;) but I really do want to understand it! I'd much rather shift her to something 'better' now instead of wishing I had 4 years from now. She seems to benefit from the review and spiral nature of Saxon. What type of student *is* a good fit for Saxon vs AoPS vs some of these older texts vs the online options? It makes my brain hurt lol! I just want her to be well-prepared for college admissions testing etc - she doesn't love math and plans to pursue an arts degree - drama or something right now ;) My younger 2 are different fish and enjoy math, or at least it seems to come more easily to them. I was originally planning Saxon for all of them unless they protested or didn't seem to thrive. Bad idea??