The Google book is just a scanned image of the actual book. I would just use the information for the actual book.

My high schooler is studying Latin and Greek, and we have found that to be plenty. He did study a great deal of English grammar in the middle school years. When he writes an awkward or incorrect sentence in English, we diagram it to see why it is awkward, as SWB suggests. We might do a quick English grammar review at some point - but all in all we find Latin and Greek to be supplying PLENTY of grammar. No, it's not the same as English grammar; however it does teach the concepts, and then we can see how those concepts work, or don't work, in English. This comes up a great deal in translation, for instance.

This should be framed and put on the wall, surrounded by blinking lights :D

We have been. My son wasn't doing well in the algebra book we had chosen for him, which was rigorous and thorough. He got the concepts much better with Fred. It seems fine for us, although I've seen enough other reviews saying that it's NOT a good stand-alone program that I admit to being a little nervous. Time will tell, and I"ll be happy to come back to report if it was a good idea or not. My son has done Fred beginning algebra, and is now working through the geometry. My 7th grader is now doing the beginning algebra.

Hmmm. Our "English" is kind of weird. My son has Great Books - Ancients. This combines history and literature, and he writes about what he reads. He also has a humanities class, which includes some literature reading, and writing. In Great Books he does expository writing; in humanities the writing is varied, such as writing a sonnet, a pilgrimage story, etc. On top of that he's reading A Rulebook For Arguments to study rhetoric. I've been thinking about lumping the literature part of Great Books, the literature part of humanities, the writing for both classes, and the Rulebook together and calling it "English 9." And then, his history is also split between GB and humanities - ancient Greek and Roman history, but then also a survey of European history from the early middle ages to the Reformation. So, er .... World History I?

Honestly, no, we haven't been "teaching" it. We honestly meant to keep up with the readings and lead the discussions, but we have been unable to. I am teaching high school Latin and Great Books to these same kids, and I"m swamped for prep time, plus I have three other kids of my own to teach! And my co-teacher teaches Latin, Greek, and middle school science at our co-op, so she is swamped too. We do do the experiments together. There are only two students in our "class." We talk about the experiments and the concepts as we do them. So far, they seem to be learning. We're about to give them the first exam. I have to run - will come back later to answer more fully :)

I don't plan to. I have a lit degree, but did not encounter any literary criticism until college. In high school I plan to teach them no more than very basic analysis, and how to write response papers ALA SWB.

I use whatever I've used in my homeschooling that works well, as long as it seems to be a match for the student. Right now I am tutoring remedial reading and spelling, and I am using Phonics Pathways and All About Spelling. I also sometimes use Writing With Ease. (I also tutor for Kaplan, but when I tutor for them I use their curriculum.) I approach it like an intensive homeschooling lesson. As far as parental involvement, I have found that this varies wildly from family to family. I started out requiring homework of each student, that had to be guided by parental involvement. I quickly learned that some families will do this, and be very involved. Some parents *will not.* Some students give their parents such a hard time about it that the parents choose not to enforce the homework. I had one parent complain to me because I wanted her to sit with her child and listen to her read. :001_huh: Parental participation will always make the learning better, of course! You can try to assign some practice for home, and see how it goes, see what the parents' attitude is, etc. But if it doesn't go well, I drop it.

Three weeks? Really? That seems like a lot to pack into three weeks.

That's a great idea - but it's not an option for us this year.

You know, that is a good point - they *will* read more Roman authors, if they stick with Latin. That makes me feel better. I do think an 8th grade boy will love the Iliad :) I really like the idea of two years for ancients. Thanks for your input! I think we'll read the allegory of the cave, at least ... but I enjoy Plato's dialogs.

The best one that happened to me - I was very irritated, and tried to text "grrrr!" It autocorrected to: "ferret!" :lol:

Here's the scenario: Your students have read the Iliad, Herodotus' Histories, and the Oresteia. So, that's a good bit of Greece, but no Rome. You've been moving slowly, perhaps thinking that if it took you more than one year to read ancients, so be it. But now, you've changed your mind and want/need to be finished with ancients by the end of this year, say, in 16 weeks. What would you do? What else would you read? The students have an interest in Livy, Marcus Aurelius, and perhaps Plato. The teacher has an interest in Plato. We plan to read the Aeneid sometime later, as a part of Latin class (though read in English translation as well). And, would you read The Republic? All, or parts? If parts, which parts? Or would you stick to the dialogues, in the interest of time?

I agree! Although I would swap out Spelling Workout for All About Spelling, if your child struggles with spelling.

There is certainly no harm in doing both at the same time. Many families find it easier to stick with one for a couple of years, and then add the other. FYI, we found Song School Greek to be much more difficult than Song School Latin. Our little ones enjoyed SSL, but we all (students and parents) bombed out quickly with SSG. We decided to wait until the youngers could handle Elementary Greek. But if it works well for your students, by all means, do it! Language study is good for the brain. :D

We are a science-oriented family, in that we love to go to science museums, tend to watch documentaries, read and discuss scientific happenings, etc. We value science very highly ... and don't "teach" it in the lower grades/middle school. Occasionally we dipped into a science program, but I pretty much hated all of them (exception - Real Science 4 Kids Chemistry). We are currently doing science through our co-op. For my high schooler, he needs a high school science credit. For my 7th, 4th and 3rd graders, we're doing the science class because it is part and parcel of co-op. If we didn't have co-op, we wouldn't be doing formal science. My oldest is now doing high school biology, and is having no trouble. He loves it. My 7th grader is actually bored with the co-op Rainbow science, because his knowledge is beyond Rainbow. Science *content* is easily obtained through books, museums, documentaries, etc. As other people have mentioned, it's much more valuable to teach a spirit of inquiry, and of ****critical**** thought and accurate observation.

It's the philosophy that counts. Drew's book illustrates one way of getting it done. Memoria Press' way is a bit different, and there are even differences between the first and second printing of LCC. But TWTM is the same. It's a mistake to get hung up on binders, and schedules, and minutiae: that's not what makes the program work. Get the philosophy, and then whatever you do with that in mind will be LCC, or TWTM. :001_smile:

Okay, I'm home now. How dos it compare to SWB's approach to classical education? SWB's approach is based on the trivium as stages of learning. SWB's approach is rigorous, and complete, and advocates a strong study of grammar, history, and Great Books. LCC does not use the trivium as an organizing principle. LCC boldly states that a classical education means classical languages, classical works, classical subjects, and the foundational works of our civilization. In practice, though, the two types of days don't look substantially different. I am lucky enough to belong to a Latin-Centered co-op. We meet one day a week, and those classes drive our curriculum. At co-op my younger children (3rd and 4th grade) take art, science, classical studies, and Latin. Then at home during the week we do Writing With Ease, First Language Lessons, Right Start math, and I read to them using Ambleside Online's lists (and they narrate). At co-op my 7th grader takes Greek (Elementary Greek 2), Latin (Cambridge 2), science (Rainbow), and humanities. At home he does Life of Fred, and supplemental reading for history and literature. At co-op my 9th grader takes Greek (Elementary Greek 3/some other New Testament text), Latin (Lingua Latina - we're on chapter 22), humanities, biology, and Great Books. At home he does Life of Fred for math. As a group at co-op we all do music, recitation, and drama. As you can see, all my children do Latin, and the older ones do Latin and Greek. Our Great Books work is in ancients, and we have so far read the Iliad, Herodotus' Histories, and the Oresteia. Where do we "fall short" of an LCC education? Well, right now we don't have a good writing program going. We have done Classical Writing, but it's been too difficult for me to implement with all of the co-op work. Writing is an area we desperately need to address. Our students do have writing assignments in Great Books and humanities. We will also be following a four-year Great Books rotation, where are more literal LCC education would keep us in the classics for longer. It's working *very* well for us. That said, I'm so very glad I found other moms to handle the Greek for me :) I don't know that we would have kept up with the Greek otherwise. My high schooler this year will have credits for English 9 (literature selections, recitation, writing); World History (not entirely sure what to do with this, as this year he's studied both ancient history and had a survey of history from the early middle ages to the Enlightenment), Latin II, Biology, Geometry ... and I'm not sure what to do about his Greek and the arts portion of humanities. I'm not sure if his Greek work equals a high school credit, and I need to figure that out. I may give him half a humanities or arts credit this year, and half next year.

Tara, would you mind elaborating? What do you think a student needs to graduate from high school in the 20th century? In what ways would you massively tweak LCC to make it fit with college prep?

I'm replying without reading the replies. I'm on my phone, on my break at co- op :) We do LCC, and belong to an LCC-inspired co-op. You can do LCC and have your day not look substantially different than a WTM day. The difference is mire in philosophy and emphasis. I use many WTM products and methods, especially for my younger kids. In my co-op, moms pull together to teach Latin, Greek, classical studies and Great Books/humanities. We also do recitation, science, art, and a little music. I'm happy to answer questions in more detail after I'm home. I have to go teach Latin to the high schoolers now :)

What else he's read this year: The Iliad, The Histories (Herodotus), selections from Canterbury Tales, Tristan and Isolde ... I think a selection from Everyman, and I think a selection from The Inferno. (He has one class on ancient Great Books, and another class in Humanities.) I can't remember what he's read for fun this year besides Zelazny. He doesn't tend to read quickly though, so our lists will not be long.

For school, The Oresteia and Petrarchian sonnets. For fun, he's finishing up Roger Zelazney's Amber series (fantasy).

We have a few clouds, but the moon is *beautiful.* :)

Yes, helpful as in "you saved biology in our homeschool." :lol: I cannot thank you enough for posting those lesson plans!

For Lingua Latina you want the text, and the College Companion. You may also want the Exercitia book, which has additional grammar exercises, and the Teacher's Guide which has an answer key :) There is a CD-ROM which has audio files of the chapters. I find it very helpful to listen to the chapters as well as reading them.