:iagree: :laugh: But I do agree!

Agreeing with the pp, this first stage of writing, identifying a topic and thinking about what to say, is exactly the strength of the Lost Tools of Writing. LToW teaches a student how to look at a topic from different angles to generate a thesis and and then come up with supporting points for that thesis. Personally, I think coming up with a topic and then a good thesis and then solid supporting points is the most important part of writing. Unfortunately, most students don't spend enough time in this thinking, pre-writing phase, and try to jump directly to writing something-ANYthing- down on paper. I've been trying to show my children that it is so much easier to write when you spend the time upfront thinking about your topic, turning it around and looking at it from different angles, and seeing where your strongest supporting points are. LToW does this.

Leah is a fantastic instructor! I attended one of her parent only workshops on teaching LToW three years ago, and my three children attended one of her two day writing workshops last spring. I and most other parents stayed and observed the writing workshop. If you're at all interested in using LToW, Leah's workshop is absolutely worth attending. Even if you aren't planning on using the full LToW program, the workshop is worth attending for the ideas you'll get and the overall sense of direction in teaching writing. I would also strongly, strongly suggest that you enroll your 14 year old (and 12 year old!) My children were 13, 13, and 11, and each one of them got something out of the writing workshop. (My 11 year old was probably the youngest in the group. Most seemed to be 7th through 10th grade.) My children learned ways to approach writing that they will be able to use no matter what specific writing curriculum or class they use in the future. It was one thing for me to attend the parent workshop, but infinitely more beneficial for my children to participate in the writing workshop with other students and experience the process for themselves. And you couldn't find a better LToW person to lead the workshop. Leah is one of those special, born teachers. She's firm in her expectations, but incredibly good at reaching each student where they are and helping them move forward, motivating, .... She's one of those rare teachers that, if you'd had her in school, you'd look fondly back on and think, "I wish all my teachers had been like her." Go! Register your sons! You won't regret it!

Oh, my gosh, Lori, that's an extensive list! Thank you! And thank you for the links to previous threads.

Thanks, Liza. Haven't tried any Marrin biographies, so I'll pick one of those up.

Thanks, regentrude and elegantlion! Bumping for any other ideas! Also, any suggestions for biographies that might be interesting?

I'd purchase select reference resources. If they had the OUP history books at a good price, I'd snap those up. The only textbook like things I would purchase ahead of time are ones in series that I absolutely know we use and like: Rod and Staff, Singapore Math, Veritas Press history cards, etc. I've wasted so much money on texts we've never used because I couldn't resist the "bargain" price. They still look great & I'd love to use some of them, but there's not enough time to do everything.

Looking for more book suggestions, especially for my almost 14 year old boys, but also my daughter. They mostly read fantasy/fiction at the moment, but expanding their horizons is also good. : ) Thanks for any ideas! yvonne

Thanks for the info on early modern/modern history & lit, John. I don't suppose you know how much writing there will be in the lit courses? We're set for next year, but it would be great to have more literature-based writing options out there. It seems most lit courses are only lit reading & discussion and most writing courses are composition of some sort.

Hope Derek Owens works out for your daughter! On the English front, you mentioned that your daughter doesn't want anything online as a result of her FLVS experience, but the virtual academy online experience is so totally different from other, independent online classes. A PP mentioned TPS's English sequence. If you pull up the course description for some of the English classes, for example English 3: Lit Survey, there's a link to a sample class. Your daughter could check out the sample class and see if it might work for her. Just be aware that listening to a recorded archive is not going to be as interesting as being in the live class where you can participate! WTM Academy just posted their English/Rhetoric and Lit classes. Wilson Hill Academy also offers English classes. The Literary Analysis and Argumentation class looks great, and we've really liked the instructor, Cindy Lange.

WTM Academy courses, schedule, and list of instructors are posted on the WTMAcademy.com website. Wish there were an early modern history/lit course, but the other courses look good. $499/course ($399 if you register early) + $60 reg fee/student/year. The "Coaching" and "Class Clinics" sound great. Haven't seen that type of support available with other online classes. Coaching: Office hours are posted for each instructor, and students have access to schedule short coaching sessions for specific questions. Forums and email will be provided to facilitate instructor and peer assistance beyond the classroom. Class Clinics: Our monthly Class Clinic for parents, a virtual version of a group parent-teacher conference. Our goal of monthly clinics will help parents get an overview of the course material, offer Q&A, and allow parents to interact with the instructor and other parents in the same way students do in the classroom environment.

WTM Academy courses, schedule, and list of instructors are posted on the WTMAcademy.com website. Wish there were an early modern history/lit course, but the other courses look good. The "Coaching" and "Class Clinics" sound great. Haven't seen that type of support available with other online classes. Coaching: Office hours are posted for each instructor, and students have access to schedule short coaching sessions for specific questions. Forums and email will be provided to facilitate instructor and peer assistance beyond the classroom. Class Clinics: Our monthly Class Clinic for parents, a virtual version of a group parent-teacher conference. Our goal of monthly clinics will help parents get an overview of the course material, offer Q&A, and allow parents to interact with the instructor and other parents in the same way students do in the classroom environment.

It's pretty much self-paced. You can go as fast or as slow as you want. DO provides a syllabus that breaks the work up into weeks. Alg 1, for example, is chunked into 32 weeks total. My boys had no trouble completing the course by the end of our school year, Sept-May. They probably averaged an hour a day for Alg 1, but some weeks they did more and some weeks less, depending on how heavy that week's load was in their other subjects. Derek is very helpful. I'd email him directly and ask about the workload for Alg. 2. I'm sure it completely depends on the student, but he could give you a general idea of the average.

Have you seen Derek Owens' Algebra 2 course? It's based on a standard Alg. 2 text, for which he's put together his own workbook/notebook. His distance courses are video-based. The student watches the video online, follows along in a workbook/notebook taking notes, completes practice problems and checks his answers against the posted answers, and then completes a set of problems which he scans/emails to Mr. Owens. Mr. Owens corrects them and keeps grades in a gradebook which is easily accessed at any point so you always know exactly where your student stands in the course. I like it much better than a video only course like Thinkwell or DIVE because there is a live teacher at the other end in case the student has any questions or needs any help. My boys just finished Alg 1 and Physical Science with Derek, and all of us were very happy with the instruction and the format of the course. Another plus is that DO's courses go up through AP Calc, so, if your daughter tries Alg 2 and likes it, you've got a path through the end of high school and won't have to revisit math decisions every year!

I posted this in response to the same question on the Omni yahoo list... If it helps, there is minimal difference between the older editions and the newer ones, at least between the 6th and the 8th. VP has a document cross-referencing the 5th through 8th editions on their resources page. We got an 8th edition, but ended up using the two-volume, 6th edition softcover. I compared the chapters we read for Omni II this year in the 6th and 8th eds. to be sure we wouldn't miss anything, and there was very little difference in content or organization. For VPSA Omni II, chapters that corresponded to the primary works were assigned, but they didn't really go over them in detail in the class, so it didn't matter at all if some of the content was slightly different. For the price difference, there is no way I'd buy an 8th edition over a 6th now that I've seen them side by side. My boys liked the 6th edition, split between two volumes, because it was much easier to handle than the single volume, hardback 8th edition. The 6th edition was also economical enough to buy three used copies, one for each of my twins and one for me. Besides using it as the history spine, I used it to go through how to read a textbook with them. HTH!

Looks like the high school agenda is also live now, but only in the block format. I hope they offer the matrix format at some point. Thanks for posting about the planner, mommaklee. I hadn't seen this one before, and it's just what I've been looking for.

I was wondering about the extent of her involvement, too. A writing class or a history class taught by her is probably too much to hope for, but still....

Anyone else get the notice about the classes WTM Academy will be offering?! (email below) Registration is supposed to open "in the next few days." Anyone know if there's a website for it? Or is the only info on Facebook? (I really dislike Facebook.) ETA: Found the website, but there's no info posted, yet. ETA: I hope the literature classes include writing. I don't get why so many online providers offer standalone writing classes, as opposed to teaching writing in conjunction with literature or with history. Thanks, yvonne (From the email:) Well, we have been working like busy bees here at the Well-Trained Mind Academy and I am happy to say we are almost ready for the launch! We have our courses in place and instructors are ready to go. All classes will be full-year courses. In the next few days we will be opening early registration at a discounted rate! If you have any thoughts or questions, please post them on our Facebook page at http://wtmacademy.us5.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=57e6141281f70e7d244047769&id=3576953f2e&e=85b458a5f1. So without further ado I give you our course list: HISTORY Ancient History: From the First Written Records to the Fall of Rome A survey of ancient cultures through 476 AD. Grades 9-11 Medieval History: From the End of the Roman Empire through the Fall of Constantinople A survey of medieval nations from 476 through 1453. Grades 10-12 American History: From the Colonial Revolution to the Present This course will explore the dynamic encounters between the competing cultural ideals, economic drives, political affiliations, and ethical dilemmas which form the foundation of American life. Students will learn to "do" history even as they gain a deeper appreciation for the crucial role that history plays in our contemporary world. Grades: 11-12 ---------------------- LITERATURE Ancient Literature: Covers ancient literature through c. 500 AD. Literature from the earliest written stories to the end of the Roman Empire, including such works and authors as Homer’s Iliad, Virgil’s Aeneid, and Augustine’s Confessions. Grades 9-12 Medieval Literature: Medieval and Renaissance literature from c. 500 to c. 1600 AD. Literature from after the fall of Rome to the Elizabethan era in England, including such works and authors as Beowulf, Dante’s Divine Comedy, and Shakespeare. Grades 10-12 American Literature: American and select world literature from c. 1600 to present. Literature from the early settling of America to the modern day, including such works and authors as John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress, Herman Melville’s Moby Dick, and Mark Twain. Grades 9-12 ---------------------- WRITING Introduction to Expository Writing Remedial work for struggling students who need additional help in basic writing skills. Smaller classes, more individual attention in order to prepare students for Expository Writing I. Expository Writing I Building pre-rhetoric skills in organization, sentence structure, and research skills. Covers narrative summaries, chronological narratives, descriptions, biographical sketches, and sequences, plus beginning literary essays about both fiction and poetry; one- and two-level outlining; thesaurus use, note-taking, and documentation. Grades 6-9 Expository Writing II More advanced skills in organization, sentence structure, essay construction, and research skills. Reviews Expository Writing I skills and adds explanation by comparison, explanation by definition, introductions and conclusions, brainstorming and choosing topics, writing comparative literary essays, and planning out longer papers. Grades 7-10 Introduction to Rhetoric One-year “crash course†preparation for high school rhetoric. Designed for high schoolers who have missed the prerequisites (at the suggested middle school grades) and need additional training before beginning a formal rhetoric course. Grades 9-11 Rhetoric I Introduction to the techniques of persuasive writing. Uses the progymnasmata exercises (narrative, description, fable, proverb, anecdote, refutation/confirmation, commonplace, praise and blame, comparison, speech-in-character) to teach thesis establishment, development, and support. Grades 9-12 Rhetoric II Developing more advanced skills in persuasive writing: advanced sentence structure, diction, techniques for paragraph development, essay structure, point of view, tone, and proper use and citation of authorities. Grades 10-12 --------------------- MATH (SAXON BASED) Pre-Algebra Focuses on problem solving skills and engagement with numbers and terms to increase mathematical vocabulary and confidence. Topics include but are not limited to: review of arithmetic skills, single and multi-variable equations, data analysis, introduction to number theory, graphing, measurement, exponents, square roots, and introduction to geometry in preparation for Algebra I. Grades 6-9 Algebra I Includes linear equations, graphing and functions, introduction to polynomials and quadratics, rational expressions, radicals. Grades 7-10 Geometry Geometric figures and their properties. Grades 7-11 Algebra II Includes but not limited to working with polynomials and quadratic equations; pre-trigonometry; statistics and probabilities. Grades 8-12 --------------------- SCIENCE Chemistry: Includes but not limited to structure, properties, and behaviors of atoms and molecules, chemical reactions, acid-base chemistry, and oxidation-reduction reactions. Grades: 9-12 Biology: Includes but not limited to the fundamental principles of biochemistry, cell structure & function, heredity, molecular genetics, ecology, and organism diversity. Grades: 9-12 ******************** Finally, we will be offering limited private online tutoring for the writing courses.

Anyone else get the notice about the classes WTM Academy will be offering?! (email below) Registration is supposed to open "in the next few days." Anyone know if there's a website for it with more information, specifically instructors and texts ? Or is the only info on Facebook? (I really dislike Facebook.) ETA: There is a website: WTMAcademy.com. Hope to see more info on it soon! Thanks, yvonne ************************************** Well, we have been working like busy bees here at the Well-Trained Mind Academy and I am happy to say we are almost ready for the launch! We have our courses in place and instructors are ready to go. All classes will be full-year courses. In the next few days we will be opening early registration at a discounted rate! If you have any thoughts or questions, please post them on our Facebook page at http://wtmacademy.us5.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=57e6141281f70e7d244047769&id=3576953f2e&e=85b458a5f1. So without further ado I give you our course list: HISTORY Ancient History: From the First Written Records to the Fall of Rome A survey of ancient cultures through 476 AD. Grades 9-11 Medieval History: From the End of the Roman Empire through the Fall of Constantinople A survey of medieval nations from 476 through 1453. Grades 10-12 American History: From the Colonial Revolution to the Present This course will explore the dynamic encounters between the competing cultural ideals, economic drives, political affiliations, and ethical dilemmas which form the foundation of American life. Students will learn to "do" history even as they gain a deeper appreciation for the crucial role that history plays in our contemporary world. Grades: 11-12 ---------------------- LITERATURE Ancient Literature: Covers ancient literature through c. 500 AD. Literature from the earliest written stories to the end of the Roman Empire, including such works and authors as Homer’s Iliad, Virgil’s Aeneid, and Augustine’s Confessions. Grades 9-12 Medieval Literature: Medieval and Renaissance literature from c. 500 to c. 1600 AD. Literature from after the fall of Rome to the Elizabethan era in England, including such works and authors as Beowulf, Dante’s Divine Comedy, and Shakespeare. Grades 10-12 American Literature: American and select world literature from c. 1600 to present. Literature from the early settling of America to the modern day, including such works and authors as John Bunyan’s Pilgrim’s Progress, Herman Melville’s Moby Dick, and Mark Twain. Grades 9-12 ---------------------- WRITING Introduction to Expository Writing Remedial work for struggling students who need additional help in basic writing skills. Smaller classes, more individual attention in order to prepare students for Expository Writing I. Expository Writing I Building pre-rhetoric skills in organization, sentence structure, and research skills. Covers narrative summaries, chronological narratives, descriptions, biographical sketches, and sequences, plus beginning literary essays about both fiction and poetry; one- and two-level outlining; thesaurus use, note-taking, and documentation. Grades 6-9 Expository Writing II More advanced skills in organization, sentence structure, essay construction, and research skills. Reviews Expository Writing I skills and adds explanation by comparison, explanation by definition, introductions and conclusions, brainstorming and choosing topics, writing comparative literary essays, and planning out longer papers. Grades 7-10 Introduction to Rhetoric One-year “crash course†preparation for high school rhetoric. Designed for high schoolers who have missed the prerequisites (at the suggested middle school grades) and need additional training before beginning a formal rhetoric course. Grades 9-11 Rhetoric I Introduction to the techniques of persuasive writing. Uses the progymnasmata exercises (narrative, description, fable, proverb, anecdote, refutation/confirmation, commonplace, praise and blame, comparison, speech-in-character) to teach thesis establishment, development, and support. Grades 9-12 Rhetoric II Developing more advanced skills in persuasive writing: advanced sentence structure, diction, techniques for paragraph development, essay structure, point of view, tone, and proper use and citation of authorities. Grades 10-12 --------------------- MATH (SAXON BASED) Pre-Algebra Focuses on problem solving skills and engagement with numbers and terms to increase mathematical vocabulary and confidence. Topics include but are not limited to: review of arithmetic skills, single and multi-variable equations, data analysis, introduction to number theory, graphing, measurement, exponents, square roots, and introduction to geometry in preparation for Algebra I. Grades 6-9 Algebra I Includes linear equations, graphing and functions, introduction to polynomials and quadratics, rational expressions, radicals. Grades 7-10 Geometry Geometric figures and their properties. Grades 7-11 Algebra II Includes but not limited to working with polynomials and quadratic equations; pre-trigonometry; statistics and probabilities. Grades 8-12 --------------------- SCIENCE Chemistry: Includes but not limited to structure, properties, and behaviors of atoms and molecules, chemical reactions, acid-base chemistry, and oxidation-reduction reactions. Grades: 9-12 Biology: Includes but not limited to the fundamental principles of biochemistry, cell structure & function, heredity, molecular genetics, ecology, and organism diversity. Grades: 9-12 ******************** Finally, we will be offering limited private online tutoring for the writing courses.

We'll be driving a lot this summer. Any suggestions for favorite audiobooks/books for 6th grade & up? A friend suggested Zorro, by Allende. Any others? Here are some we/they've read/listened to/enjoyed in the past, if anyone else is looking for suggestions: - all the Riordan books (Percy Jackson, Kane Chronicles, Heroes of Olympus) - Chronicles of Narnia set - Harry Potter series - LoTR trilogy - Eragon series - Mysterious Benedict series - all the Redwall series - Septimus Heap series by Angie Sage - A Wrinkle in Time, L'Engle - most of the Freddy the Pig books (Freddy the Detective, etc.) - Summer of the Monkeys - Children of the Lamp: Akhenaten Adventure & Blue Djinn of Babylon (These were ok. Not really a favorite, though. Listened to them when we were studying ancients.) - Cat of Bubastes by Henty (abridged reading by Jim Weiss) - Five Children and It - Inkheart, Inkspell, Inkdeath by Cornelia Funke (might not be best for younger kids) - Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper (not for younger kids) ETA: - Artemis Fowl series by Eoin Colfer (Thanks, Cinder! Forgot that one! Good for younger kids.) - Hunger Games trilogy

We'll be spending a lot of time in the car this summer. Any suggestions for fun, summer audio books for older kids? A friend with 6th and 9th graders suggested Zorro by Allende. They've listened to it three times, and she said it's "clean."

One of my sons wanted to try classical Greek, so I signed him up with Lukeion this past year. It turned out to be one of his favorite classes, and now he plans to take Greek 2 next year. It's a big time commitment, but my son has gotten so much out of that one class, beyond learning Greek, that I think it's probably worth the time even though it squeezes other subjects. If your son is serious about learning Greek, I'd have him email Regan Barr at Lukeion and ask about Attic vs Homeric Greek and any other questions he might have. Mr. Barr is incredibly helpful and, even if you don't end up using Lukeion, I bet he'd be more than happy to help your son figure out what he wants to do.

My children participated in one of the "Student's LTW Workshops," and I sat in & observed. I don't know if the events listed as "A Lost Tools of Writing Workshop" is for students, parents, or both. You might have to contact the organizer for the specific workshop you're looking at. My oldest are only rising 9th graders and we've only used LToW ideas informally for a handful of essays they've written, so I can't help with a writing path. Wish I could!

Thanks, Julie. It would get pretty expensive to get three separate copies. Two of my kids have been wanting to learn how to "program" for a while, but I haven't known what the best starting point would be. I bought a single subscription yesterday as a fun summer activity, & all three kids have been working on it together. So far, I like how it's working out... If they have to be doing something online, I like the fact that they're talking to each other about what to do & how to do it, not just each sitting in front of their own little screen, in their own little virtual world.

The Teacher Manual contains a lesson plan for each chapter, teaching tips/suggestions for each chunk of the chapter, some sample essay parts, etc. It does not contain the stories or the text from the Student text. I started out with just the Teacher Manual and student books for my boys, but quickly decided to get a student copy for myself. I thought it was worth being able to see exactly what my boys were seeing and being able to follow along with them when we talked about the lesson together.