I voted Miquon, but we use both Singapore and Miquon for K-3 and will most likely use Beast Academy (with Singapore as a supplement?) for 3-5.

What is the difference between these two books? We have PGCM, but I'd consider buying BPSG if it's different enough....

Thank you, everyone! I'll gladly take more comments if anyone else would like to chime in!

How difficult would it be for a child to jump into Singapore at 3A (or 3B), having had a mediocre math education thus far but not having struggled much with math to this point? In other words, would an average to above average math student who has no mental math training nor an understanding of number bonds find success in Singapore if she starts at 3A and continues on from there? Is the mental math training essential to the later grades? Does anyone have personal experience with jumping in to Singapore at 3A? The child in question is currently in 3rd grade and will start homeschooling in the fall, but I'm assuming she will need to start at 3A. I know she will need to take the placement tests to fine tune that, but that's my best guess….

Please help me find a way to clearly and concisely explain the difference between math programs that emphasize a conceptual understanding (Singapore, Miquon, RightStart, Math Mammoth, etc.) vs. those that emphasize a procedural understanding (Saxon, Horizons, etc. - not really sure what programs are in this category). I have a friend who is considering homeschooling and has come to me for advice. I would love for her to truly understand math concepts as she learns along with her dds (just like I have done) through a conceptual program that emphasizes things like number bonds, visualization, and place value, but so far I am doing a terrible job of explaining the difference between the two methods. So, how would you explain the difference to someone coming from a procedural only understanding? And make it convincing! LOL!

I had the same thoughts. My 8yo has seen these topics before (in Miquon) but she doesn't yet have her multiplication tables memorized. (I've been holding off because I want her to have more practice figuring in her head.) So she should be at the perfect place for this curriculum, but I have a feeling it would be too much for her if she'd only gone through Singapore and not Miquon, too. It IS for kids who are quick at math, though, so I guess you've gotta expect that it won't fit the average kid! I'm hoping it works for us! My 8yo is very sequential in her thinking and doesn't make the mental leaps that my 6yo does. I have a feeling she'll be needing the extra practice they plan to offer online.

Thank you for the suggestions, everyone! I'll check into these!

I'd like to memorize more poetry with my children and I think using picture books would be wonderful. It seems like it would be much easier for them to memorize if they also have a visual. Does anyone have any good suggestions? I'm specifically thinking of one poem per book, not an anthology.... Thank you!!!

Thank you, everyone. I understand better now. I honestly don't think I was taught that in school... or maybe my 12 year old brain just wasn't ready for it yet? Anyway, I think we're going to stick with analyzing only the MCT sentences (or equivalently easy ones) right now and work our way up slowly.

Possibly Beast Academy? It is supposed to be a comic book story format along with a workbook. The 3rd grade level comes out this spring/summer.

I think Homeschool Buyer's Coop still has a sale going right now! It is something you can use for all your children every year until high school so it really isn't that much money when you look at it that way. Having said that, though, I'm really not sure why she charges so much.... hmmmm... You do have to be comfortable making up your own curriculum from her suggestions, though. It won't work for obsessive box checkers. There are no boxes to check. I made a print out of what writing projects I wanted to get done each month of the school year and look at that when I'm planning our week. That helps me see that we are making forward progress. I also reread the book every summer. There is A LOT in there and you'll learn more each time through. Take a look at the Bravewriter website and you can start incorporating many of her ideas right away. It really is a good curriculum for those who want a close relationship with their children. I think I'd be pushing too hard and having a tough time with my oldest if it weren't for that book. Is that recommendation enough? LOL!

If I wanted to do only "the basics" and make sure to spend quality time with my kids, this is what it would look like… Phonics instruction (OPGTR, but I would use a white board and make games to play. Also, starfall.com and Leapfrog DVDs) Spelling, if needed (Spelling Power, Sequential Spelling, or misspelled words taken from their writing and entered into spellingcity.com) Math 4-5 days per week (Miquon then start Singapore at 3A or Math Mammoth 3, and we'd play lots of math games and read living math books!) Read aloud to the kids every day from high quality books and DISCUSS, DISCUSS, DISCUSS! (This could cover Literature, Science, History, Geography, Thinking Skills, Literary Analysis, Vocabulary, etc., etc.) Writing Skills - 1 thing 4-5 days per week (Copywork, Dictation, Written Narration, Journaling, Story writing, Small Research Papers, etc. I'd get The Writer's Jungle and make my own curriculum so we could go with the flow of our family's needs.) Silent Reading Time 1hr+ per day Audio Books and Radio Dramas (SOTW, Chronicles of Narnia, Adventures in Odyssey, etc.) Educational Play/Fun Stuff (Legos, Blocks, Documentaries, Board and Card Games, Painting, Play Dough/Modeling Clay, Beads, Buttons, Puzzles, Pattern Blocks, Cuisenaire Rods, Dress-Up Stuff, Baby Dolls, Logic and Math Computer Games, Piano, etc.)

Interesting. I would have thought those were prepositions (but wondered why they weren't at the beginning of a prepositional phrase). I guess I wasn't taught grammar very well!

Hmmmm... okay, well, I guess the problem here is that I learned what prepositions are by memorizing a list and that's the only way I know to identify them. I'm not sure what to tell my girls when they stand there looking at the word, not sure what to label it. I don't want to say, "If you're not sure, then it's probably a preposition." I have mentioned something about a preposition being a word that connects two other words in time or space (or something like that - is that even right? I need to look back and see how MCT explains it.) but I don't think they really get it - especially my 6yo. And I know it's not intended for her age, but I do think that if I could understand it then I'd be able to clearly explain it to her and she'd understand it. The other day I chose a sentence from our read-aloud book and wrote it on the board for them to do the 4 part sentence analysis. I thought I'd chosen an appropriate level sentence, but then I realized that it ended with the word "in" and that is a preposition (per my memorized list), but a preposition is supposed to start a prepositional phrase and this one was obviously not doing that. Here's the sentence... His hair looked like a scrubbing brush and most of his grown-up front teeth were in. So what part of speech is "in" here? I guess I need to just use MCT's sentences until we learn some more. I also wasn't sure if "looked" was a linking verb or action verb (I think linking?) and at first I thought "teeth" was the second subject but then decided it must be "most." Can someone clearly explain prepositions to me, please, so I can clearly explain them to my children?

We're using Island level with my 8yo (6yo tagging along) and prepositions seem to be the only part of speech they sometimes have trouble with. Is there any reason NOT to have them memorize a list of prepositions? I had to memorize 48 of them in 7th grade and still remember them so it is easy for me to pick them out in a sentence. That seems like the easiest way to help them, but maybe I'm missing something. Anyone care to enlighten me on the MCT way of doing this?

From what I've heard, the 4 day schedule crams almost all of the history in and leaves out some read alouds, so you'll be doing a bit more each day that you use the schedule. We do the 4 day schedule, but I don't go down the columns. I go across. So usually I do Bible on Monday, History on Tuesday and Wednesday (because there's a lot), Science on Thursday, and Read-Aloud on Friday. That's in general, but I also mix it up a bit and do the read aloud until it's done for a few days or whatever. What I try to do is stay on the same IG page for everything except the read aloud then go to the next IG page after that. I fit in the 5 day books when I can either as read-alouds or I have the kids read them to themselves.

I decided at the beginning of last school year that my oldest (and now my middle, too) needed to learn to work through frustration and not quit when things get hard. I didn't want her to go through childhood without ever being challenged and then melt when things actually get hard in the teenage or adult years. So, I wrote at the top of our white board, "Do Hard Things." And we started talking about the concept all the time. If you were a fly on our wall, you would daily hear things like,… "We don't quit in this family." "You are allowed to say that it's hard, but not that it is TOO hard." "You need to do 25 jumping jacks because you said, 'I can't do it'" (or, "It's too hard!") "Tell yourself you can do it!" "This IS hard, isn't it? But I know you can do it! It's just going to take some work." "You did it! I'm so proud of you for not quitting!" "What would be the point of me giving you easy things to do? Then you wouldn't learn anything!" "Would you like to move on and come back to this problem later?" (then make sure to come back to the problem) "Now, doesn't it feel good knowing how tough this problem was for you, yet you kept going and finally figured it out?" "I noticed how you didn't throw a tantrum this morning when you couldn't figure out those math problems right away. Good job!" "Let's tell Daddy how hard you worked on this problem, how long it took you, and how you didn't give up and finally got it right!" This is all basically for math. I decided last year that I needed to challenge my children in at least one subject and math would be the easiest to do that with. Also, at the time I didn't really care whether they ended up hating math for the rest of their lives or not. Surprisingly enough, my children now love math! I'm sure a big part of it is because they catch my excitement about it, but it may also be that they actually feel satisfaction of a job well done when they have to actually work for something. I'm learning to let them struggle and not jump in to rescue them with the "right answer" like I used to do. And I'm learning to give them the next baby step toward the right answer when they're stuck so that they can still feel the satisfaction of figuring it out for themselves. It's been tough, but SO worth it. I have seen definite improvement in both my 8yo and 6yo. We have made a conscious effort to focus on EFFORT instead of ACHIEVEMENT and it is changing the atmosphere in our home and the diligence they put forth. Now, don't get me wrong - we still deal with this issue at least 2 times per week, but that's better than the almost daily occurrences that used to happen. I think with kids for whom most things come easy and who have perfectionistic tendencies that it is very important to focus on working hard, not quitting, and effort instead of achievement. As far as finding the line between boredom and "pushing too hard," I don't think it's an issue in the content subjects. Just let him read what he wants. Read to him what he wants you to read. Maybe choose a higher vocal level book every once in a while. Talk about what you're reading. It's the skills where it is more of a concern. And, yes, it's hard to tell exactly where the line is. Sometimes you have to trip over it before you realize it's there, but your kid is resilient and will forgive you and you'll have learned a lesson. I'm trying to think of something concrete to give you, but it's kind of hard because every child is an individual. For instance, my 6yo cries at the drop of a hat. If she starts crying when math seems too hard I come over and start talking with her about it. I play with her hair because that makes her feel loved and I stay calm and walk her through it. Usually that's all she needs, but every once in a while she really just seems to have no clue and that's when I bring out the C-Rods and Base 10 blocks or, if she's already tried them, just tell her that maybe we should save that page until she's a little bit older and let her be done. My 8yo, on the other hand throws tantrums instead of crying, so I do the above with her when she gets angry. But if she were crying over a math problem them I would really take notice because it's out of the ordinary for her. And because I know my kids so well, I just kind of sense when they are getting to their breaking point where their minds just need a break. So then I let them do gymnastics while we work or give them a 10 minute break or decide to be done for the day, whatever I feel is best at the time. I guess I usually first ask questions to see where they are struggling, then I ask leading questions (like, "What do you know for sure already?" or, "Is there a way to do an easier problem first that would help you figure out this harder problem?" or "Do you think C-Rods would help?") to hopefully lead them in the right direction and see if they can make the right connections, then I get out manipulative or draw on the white board if they still aren't getting it, and, finally, I let them put it aside for another day if none of the above worked. If it were a constant problem then I would evaluate whether we were at the right level book for that particular child. That's all concerning the line of being too hard. Knowing whether something is too easy is hard sometimes, too. My 6yo will often sigh and say, "I already KNOW this, Mom! Can we just skip it?" and I have to decide whether or not I think she needs the practice in that skill or not. I really struggle with this when it comes to writing. I never know whether I'm giving them too much or too little. If they're hand hurts, then I ask for one more sentence or word and say they are done, but often times they just don't want to do it and I have to decide whether they really need to do handwriting practice (or whatever) every day or not. That line is more tricky for me to distinguish… I also want to add that I agree with a pp who pointed out that your son is still only 5. I don't make my children do ANY school work that they don't want to do until they are 6yo, and even then I try to keep it very light until 8yo. So if my 6yo doesn't get to every subject every day, it really isn't that big of a deal. She's only 6. I just want to make sure that she is being challenged periodically, but it doesn't have to be daily. And there are other ways to help kids work through perfectionism - CHORES are your friend! Or even everyday problems that my kids want me to solve for them, I'm learning to say, "What do you think you could do to solve that problem? I bet you can figure something out!" I don't know if any of this helped, but hopefully you can find something useful in my ramblings!

At "reading in bed" time tonight... DD6: Mom, can I take this notebook and do math problems in it? I promise I'll do really hard ones! Me: Um,... sure, I guess!

Find Sums is the only one I've found that is close to what you're asking for. You might also want to check out MathGirl Addition House. It involves visualization techniques. It's not always based on 10, but I still think it's a valuable skill. My girls love the app!

My 8yo is doing copywork, dictation, reverse dictation, handwriting, written narration, freewriting, and generative writing. I try to have her do 1-2 LA things per day. For generative writing I find ideas from Sonlight LA, The Writer's Jungle, or just things I come up with. Last week my girls wrote a play and performed it. I helped a lot with the writing (I typed while they dictated and I gave extensive ideas to help it flow, talked about plot, needing some problem to be solved, etc.) since this was their first experience with this genre. Next time I'll expect my 8yo to take more initiative and responsibility. I've had her write her own stories and illustrate them. She also writes letters to Grandma periodically. And we recently started a Mommy and Me journal where we write to each other in a journal and leave it on each other's bed after we're done writing. I sometimes have her write lists (like what she'd like to learn about, what her favorite games are, etc.) She did a mini report in December where the point was to basically learn how to use notecards and make a bibliography. I also count some games as LA - Apples to Apples and Don't Say It and similar games that build skills needed for writing well. HTH!

Could you drop the grammar for the last half of the year? (You may be a die-hard grammar fan and may be appalled at the thought, but I thought I'd put it out there since that's what I'd do!) If not, maybe look into MCT Island level? We just started it and my 6 and 8 yos are enjoying it! Instead of WWE, could you have her narrate from history, science and literature that you are already doing? And then have her choose passages or poems or song lyrics to copy or have dictated to her? That way she'd have some say in what she's doing. Could you drop the CLE Reading and just let her choose library books to read each week? (I'm not sure what all is in CLE so not sure if that's an option...) I would let her have a little bit of say in what she does so she buys in a little more. Just some thoughts....

We started using them in 1A because I needed to learn the method along with my dd! I will say, though, that I'm not using it as much with my middle dd since I already know where they're going with it all (plus she's very "mathy" and just "gets it"). The HIGs have been very helpful in making me feel confident and giving me extra game ideas to play when we need them. I honestly feel like what my kids learned in 1A and 1B (along with Miquon) was so important and has made everything else so very easy because it all builds on the foundational understanding of number bonds and place value. Even though I'm not using it as much with middle dd, I'm still very glad to have it. I check over it to make sure there isn't anything I might forget to cover. I think, though, that someone who already understands the Asian way of teaching math could do fine without them if money were an issue....

Developing the Early Learner sold by Sonlight and Rainbow Resource. They are not your typical preschool workbooks with letters and numbers. They are for developing auditory/visual processing and memory. We haven't needed all 4, though, because they got redundant after a while. I did books 1, 2, and 3 with one of my dds and with my current 4yo I'll be doing 1, 3 and 4.

These aren't printable so they might not be exactly what you're looking for, but they are a good resource! http://www.thinkingblocks.com/index.html It is an interactive online program that teaches the bar method of doing word problems that Singapore Math program uses.

We obviously don't have the same schedule each week! I think we'd get bored doing the same thing over and over!