Are they compatible? I have The Writer's Jungle. I'm thinking of buying MCT Island level. Are these programs too different in philosophy to work together? I'm one of those people who doesn't see the need for extensive grammar instruction - at least for my kids. Once in elementary, once in middle school, once in high school. My 8 year old intuitively understands correct grammar from reading so much. Dictation is almost pointless because she rarely makes mistakes. She writes grammatically. I don't see a reason to study grammar so much when she doesn't seem to need it. I like the whole to parts philosophy in Bravewriter where they "just write" and then adjust it later to fit a specific form instead of writing with a form in mind. I know MCT is coming from the opposite perspective of learning to write a sentence, then a paragraph, then an essay. I'm thinking of just getting the Island level and not the rest... but, I just don't know! Though I don't see the point of her learning much grammar, I do want her to be "grammar literate" so she knows what people are referring to when she hears the terms. I like how MCT presents grammar. It seems like it would fit our style. But does the philosophy clash too much with Bravewriter (which I'm not willing to give up)?

You've gotten great advice! I agree that homeschooling with a 2 year old is very difficult! This year has been much easier for us now that the little one is 3 and will actually play on her own for a while! So hang in there - it gets better. A few things: I'd do math during the 2 yo's nap. That way you can give your dd your full attention. Also, if I were you, I'd move on to multiplication and division 2 days per week (because it should be just introducing the concept and not expecting memorization yet) and spend the other 3 doing math games. Is there a HIG for MiF like there is for the Primary Mathematics series? In ours there are activity and game suggestions for getting better at mental math. It really sounds to me like the math she did in school set her on a bad course and now you just need to help her relearn some things. I know the counting on fingers thing is a widely debated topic. I fall on the side of believing that it's NOT a good thing. If she is using fingers to count up or down to an answer then that means she is not using her frontal lobe/executive functioning part of her brain. She is using the part where information is STORED, not where it is PROCESSED. (It's like how kids can quote the pledge of allegiance and not really know what they're saying. It's just memorized but not understood.) Counting up and down on fingers almost always means there is a lack of conceptual understanding. Since Singapore is BIG on mental math and you can't do mental math without conceptual understanding, I would suggest working on that 3 days per week while moving forward in the workbook the other 2 days. I don't think you need to switch, but if you do decide to I'd advise you to switch to another conceptually based math program like Miquon, Right Start, or Math Mammoth. Oh, another thing - I would not do ANY more adding/subtracting on paper with regrouping until she can do it MENTALLY. It will shortchange the process by allowing her to get the answer without actually understanding what she's doing. Honestly, I kind of wish that Singapore didn't even introduce the regrouping on paper method until 3A when you get into adding much bigger numbers. Kids should be able to do mental addition and subtraction within 100 and I think teaching them the formal algorithm can make it too tempting for them to use paper and stop thinking. Also, if you are playing games with her 3 days per week, there are no worksheets to rush through, less frustration for you, she'll be learning mental math, and she gets one-on-one time with you! It's a win/win. As for the word problems - do you understand the bar method that Singapore uses? There are several books available that help teach them. I just finished going through the CWP 4 book and am starting CWP 5 so that when my oldest gets to that point I won't be completely lost. Some of those problems are HARD! Singapore is a great program and will serve her well if you can push through the current obstacles. If you can change her focus from being about getting pages done to being about learning concepts I believe you will be well on your way to success in math. Good luck! And, like others have said, enjoy this time as much as you can. You'll never have it again. Have fun!

Thank you for posting! I'm off to watch some of them with my girls!

Miquon! Miquon! Miquon!!!! No busywork. You won't have to skip a lot, if any. (We've only skipped a few pages and that was because my dd had learned it already in our other math curriculum.) From how you describe the way she learns, it sounds like Miquon would be a good match. It is a discovery program. It teaches number sense pretty much by osmosis. It is very unlike anything else you've ever seen so don't let that put you off. Oh, and it's very inexpensive, especially if you get the books off of paperback swap or bookmooch. The Sonlight website has a description of the program if you want more info....

The absolute biggest thing I've found that influences my children's desire to learn is my own passion for learning. It truly inspires them. Reading on homeschool forums and books keeps me discovering new ideas, methods, curricula, philosophies, etc. This brings about change which brings energy and excitement into our household. Some examples: I read The Writer's Jungle about once per year. This gets me all excited about writing and my girls follow suit. They write because they are excited about writing because they see that I'm excited about writing. Last year I started writing poetry every once in a while and sharing it with them during our Tea and Poetry time once per week. I would ask if anyone had anything they wanted to share. PRetty soon they were bringing poems to the table each week that they had written. I sometimes sit with them and do their art project, too. Or I'll make up some abstract something or other. They always try to imitate me - not necessarily exactly what I've done but the style of art. Recently I've been researching math stuff. AoPS. Beast Academy. I've been working on the Singapore CWP book a couple year ahead of where my oldest is so I can feel comfortable when she gets there. And, guess what my kids have been doing in their spare time? Yep, Math! They've been flying through their workbooks, asking to do math at night instead of read before bed. My oldest has done about 3-4 weeks worth of word problems on her own because she sees me doing it. Inspiration really works here. Another important thing in keeping up good attitudes about school is that I let them feel like they have a lot of say in what school work gets done. I keep as little as possible "required" because the passion is often lost when you're MADE to do something. So, for instance, My kids know that I want them to do some math each school day but I let them choose the amount. After they've worked for a while I ask, "Do you want to stop here or keep going?" and whatever they say is what we do. They often want to do another page or two, and I really think it's because they know it's truly UP TO THEM. They feel some control over what's happening instead of having me always telling them what they have to do. I also try to adjust my plans to include what they want if I can see the educational benefit in it. For example, my oldest for some reason has been wanting to copy the whole Bible. So, I've started putting it in her schedule as part of LA a couple times each week. I dictate to her and she writes. We do grammar, usage, mechanics, spelling, handwriting, this way. It wasn't originally on my plan and I do have curriculum that I can use, but this is "her thing" right now and so I'm following it until she loses interest. Some other things that I think help... Know you're child. My 6 year old needs me to touch her while she works to keep her focused. Her love language is physical touch, so I scratch her back, braid her hair, etc. while she sits at the table and works. My oldest needs quality time so it's important that she and I have "talking time" each day - even if that is during read aloud time or sitting on the couch with our PLL book to talk about word usage, etc. My youngest needs some time with me in the morning so she doesn't feel like she has to fight for my attention all day long. Be willing to change plans. Example: I had planned for us to get a good portion of school work done each Tuesday when we take my 3yo to gymnastics class. Um, no. That didn't work too well because my older two kept wanting to watch and not wanting to do their school work. Instead of pushing and pushing to do it my way, I changed my expectations. Now I spend a little time with each of them off to the side during gymnastics working on math or LA or something and then switch to working with the other. This gives them time to watch their sister, gives me what I want (a little bit of school done) and they know that I take their wishes into account and try to make accommodations for them when it's reasonable. I don't have a problem being firm with boundaries when I need to, but I try as often as possible to compromise. No media unless it's my idea. If you ask M-F, then the answer is immediately no. (I sometimes make exceptions if they're asking to do math games on the computer!) Keep lessons short and give breaks when they seem to need them. This is different for each child. I just watch for attitudes and hyperactivity, etc. Field trips to break up the monotony. Routine! Weekly schedule so they know what's coming and can mark off what they've done. I try to include at least one "fun" thing on their list, but I don't actually call it that to them. Make school part of life. Spelling and math at the table. I always ASK, "Who wants me to give them math problems or spelling words?!" so, again, it is THEIR idea, not mine. They feel a sense of control. We do silent reading time before bed so I don't feel like we need to do it during the "school day". I also sometimes let them do other types of school work before bed because it seems like a treat to them to get to do something different. They listen to SOTW CDs while coloring or playing quietly in the basement. They watch Liberty's Kids or How It's Made or other educational movies sometimes. Last thing - When we are going somewhere fun in the middle of the day (out to eat, gymnastics, Mommy and Me group, etc.) we often talk about how, if they were in school, they'd have to sit at a desk most of the day with just a few breaks and how we wouldn't get to be with each other very much. My oldest went to full day Kindergarten 2 years ago so they have experience with knowing this is true. It also helps that the older two go to the elementary school across the street twice a week for gym and music so they get that social interaction that is usually the "draw" for public school. This was really interesting to think about and put into words. Thank you for asking!!!

We are doing Sonlight Core B this year (World History Part 1) and my girls listen to SOTW Audio CDs while they have quiet time or while they color, play board games, etc. Not sure if that's exactly what you're looking for, but it's how we get both in!

We so Singapore and Miquon. It varies from month to month (and year to year!) on how/when we actually use them, though. Sometimes we only do one for several months and then, when we hit a mental wall, go to the other program for a while. Sometimes I let them choose which they want to do each day. Sometimes I plan it out for them to do each program every other day. Right now I've been giving them a weekly schedule and I have Miquon on 3 days each week, Singapore once, and one day is mental math and a math/strategy/logic game. I'm doing this because they seem to fly through Singapore but Miquon makes them really think more and so it takes longer. I like Singapore because it very clearly teaches them mental math. I never learned that in school and always counted on my fingers and tried to "add on paper" in my head when I had to do mental math. I'm learning along with my kids. My oldest is quicker than me at mental addition and subtraction. The other reason I like Singapore is because of the word problems using the bar method. It makes it so clear how to solve the challenging problems when you can see it on paper. And it also makes their brains work hard, which is the greatest benefit in my opinion. I LOVE Miquon because it builds NUMBER SENSE, a mental map of how numbers relate to one another, in my children. I love it mostly because it challenges them, and they need to be challenged. Academics come easily to my kids and I wanted something that would keep them challenged right at their level. Miquon is so out of the box that it really forces them to use their brains more than a traditional curriculum (where you learn what to do and then do that for 20 problems) would do. If I could only choose one of our curricula, I would choose Miquon... and then switch to Singapore after that. We do both programs fully. I do feel free to skip the practice problems in the Singapore textbooks if they clearly understand, but they do the entire workbook and my oldest is doing the CWP 2 book (just the challenging problems) in order to learn the bar method for next year when she won't be able to do them in her head. We don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing math. I would say my almost 8 yo does about 30-40 minutes per day and my 6 yo does maybe 20 minutes. I started both my girls in Singapore 1A and Miquon Orange at around 5 years old. We just did math when they wanted to and didn't do it when they didn't want to. No pressure. I'd ask and if they said no then we'd do something else. Last year I had my oldest (at 7) do something in math every school day. I usually let her choose which curriculum she wanted to do. This year I'm having her do one problem from the CWP book every day and I schedule Miquon and Singapore for her each week (where she does only one each day). My 6 year old now has to do something from one math curriculum each day (except Wednesday when we do a game instead). My oldest is pretty much right on target for grade level doing it this way and my middle (who is more math minded, makes connections without me explicitly showing her is 1-2 grade levels ahead. If they got behind I would probably drop Singapore for a while. I'm SO glad I found these two curricula! They each have made such a difference in how my girls "see" numbers.

To start, you would just need the rods (I'd suggest a small group set), the Orange book and Lab Sheet Annotations (The teacher's guide). I've heard that it's good to get the First Grade Diary, too, but I never did and we've done fine without it. You can often find LSA on Paperback Swap or Bookmooch. Sometimes the workbooks can be found there, too. It's REALLY cheap if you do it that way! Read through the LSA before you start to get an idea of how it works. They even suggest you go through the whole program yourself first. I didn't do that but I did do some random pages. I try to let my kids figure out what they're supposed to do on a page before I give them help. The directions really are there for a reason! And if there are no directions, they usually give you clues in some form to show you what to do. HTH!

That is the same set I just bought from Amazon for us. So, yes!

He is at the perfect age to just play with the rods. Don't even teach him the "numbers" for each rod. Let him lead the way in playing with them. Eventually he will make a stair step and "trains" that equal each other. Miquon is supposed to be started in 1st. We did start it in K and were fine, but I also feel totally free to stop math workbooks (or switch to our other curriculum) when my kids hit a wall. Just be prepared for that since it really is meant for older kids. Lots of time to play with the rods without any lessons is really the best way to start. I got the plastic connecting rods at first because I thought they would be less annoying (they wouldn't slide around all over when trying to line them up), but we never use them now! And my kids weren't as creative at the beginning when I just wanted them to play with them. They just made one long train. That's it. No comparing sizes, building, etc. The wood, non-connecting ones are so much better! I have a small set but I just ordered a small group set. I would definitely advise that you get a small group set! Especially since you have more than one child to use them.

It can be intimidating at first because it is SO different from the way most of us learned, but I found that by the time we got through the first half of the first book I hardly needed the TM at all. It is really an awesome curriculum. If I had to choose just one curriculum for lower elementary (out of the two we use) I would use Miquon over Singapore because of just how much it makes the kids THINK. It has been a good thing for my girls in that way because they don't always want to turn their brains on, but they have to with Miquon! Try it! It's so inexpensive that it's worth it just to check it out at least!

Definitely Miquon and/or Singapore. If you only want one, I'd suggest Miquon until you're done and then Singapore after that. (Or maybe Beast Academy. We're looking into switching to that when it comes out.) For a kid who loves math, you won't be sorry if you choose these! We LOVE Sonlight! Check out their reasons NOT to buy to know if it's for you or not! The library is a WONDERFUL tool! I find lists on forums like this or find a book on Amazon that we like and then scroll through the "Customers who bought this item also bought" to get more ideas. You don't really have to worry too much about order for history and science IMO so go after anything she's interested in!

We struggle with perfectionism and underachieving here. Last year, with my oldest, I decided to make the focus of our year, "DO HARD THINGS!" I wrote it on the top of our white board and talked to her at the beginning of the school year about why it is important to do things that are challenging. She would throw fits if she actually had to think when doing schoolwork. Huge fits. It would generally take 30 minutes before we could get back to work because she'd either be off throwing a tantrum or I'd be cuddling her on the couch until she'd settled down. I kept telling myself that THIS was the most important thing I could do that year for school - help her to work through frustration at not being perfect and wanting to quit. This year is MUCH better. She still gets frustrated at times but she doesn't throw tantrums any more - just pouts for a minute. We still talk about doing hard things a lot. Now I've added my 6 year old to the mix and she does the same thing her sister did last year, only she's a crier instead of a tantrum thrower. So, again, I'm focusing on helping her work through frustration. And I'm counting on her maturing in a year or two like her sister has. One thing I'm starting to realize is that I may have caused some of the perfectionism and desire to not work hard. I've noticed that I tend to do things for my kids (help them get dressed, etc.) after the point where they can do it for themselves just because I've always done it and don't realize I should stop... or because it's quicker. I've done this in "thinking" areas, too; until recently, I've viewed the "answer" as more important than the thinking involved to get the answer. So I would help my child get an answer by giving her the very last mental step needed without actually giving her the answer and then she only needed to make a small leap to get it right. Now I'm really focusing on giving as little info as possible in order for her to spend time thinking through and making bigger mental jumps on her own. I don't know if that even makes sense. I'm still attempting to switch how I teach so I'm not fully clear on how to explain it. For us, lots of love and tenderness while still expecting the child to think has been key. I do agree, though, that you don't need to worry much at this point because of his age. And focusing on chores is a great idea! I wish I would have done that more! That's been our experience. Hope something in there helps you out!

I think the multiplication would be fine to let him do on his own, but I'm not sure about the money section. That is addition and subtraction and if he had difficulty with that, he may need you to guide him through the money section, too. Yes, do the mental math! Here's another "kick." Do it! Do it! It's important! And helpful! It'll make future concepts click more easily....

Same here. What would you think about going to Miquon for a while? That way she won't feel like she's being held back, but you can spend time working on those conceptual skills that she is currently missing. Miquon books do have an order (Orange, then Red, etc.) but there are no explicit levels (like 1, 2, 3... or A, B, C) where the child would know what "grade level" she is working at. And with Miquon, since it is a discovery approach, it would be OK for her to take the book and work on her own when she wants to.

I just thought of something else. What I've been doing lately is quickly going over the textbook with my girls. I do 1-2 problems per concept in the textbook to make sure they "get" it. They know that I'm fine with skipping a bunch of stuff in the textbook so that helps them to "endure" the little bit of time spent on things they might already know (time, money, etc.). Doing this enables me to know for sure what they know and don't know but also keeps us from wasting time. I slow down when they reach a new concept. And I keep checking the HIG to make sure I'm covering all I need to be covering. Oh, and we do the mental math in the back of the HIG - VERY helpful!!!

It's hard to say. It is possible that he would do the workbook pages and not really understand the way Singapore teaches mental math. That is the portion I would say you should specifically focus on teaching. I do sometimes let my girls just go at it with their workbooks if I KNOW that they have the conceptual understanding down. I don't waste time teaching something they already know. But I'm always checking the HIG to see if there is something I need to make sure they understand well or concrete ways of showing something. To be honest, it would make me a little nervous to just let my child do only the workbook. I think it's too likely that she would miss out on important concepts. Singapore is different from many math curricula in that it has a heavy focus on mental math. That is it's strength. You may miss out on the best part of the curriculum if you don't expressly teach that.

I would agree with this except that it sounds like she is NOT understanding the concepts. That's a bigger issue than not memorizing well at this point.

So what is the difference between MIF and PM?

LOL! Sorry about that! I'm most definitely me and not you!

Okay, well if you really want her to understand math and not just go through the motions for the rest of her school years I would say that you should stop all written addition and subtraction and exclusively focus on mental math, including a deep understanding of number bonds, place value, and "making a ten". The finger counting sounds like it is a problem that you'll have to try to overcome. I did this as a child (well, and as an adult until about 2 years ago!). It is NOT helpful in understanding math concepts. Using fingers to count out by rote is not true "thinking" about math. You'll probably want to spend however long it takes just playing games during math time and have her use an abacus (with 5 beads of one color and 5 of another on each string) or some other type of manipulative (ideas in the HIG) to work on the "making a ten" concept without counting on fingers. If you don't work on this now it will be very difficult going forward with Singpore math. It is the foundation of how they teach (and, in my opinion, of how everyone should learn math).

We went to Miquon exclusively when my girls were stuck on this concept in Singapore. It worked well for us! Also, I'd say that 4 is probably too young for Miquon usually, but you know your child best! It does take some getting used to when first starting Miquon. I used the Lab Sheet Annotations a lot when we first started in Orange, but hardly use it at all now. You get used to it after a while. And my girls can often just open and go without any instruction.

I just want to chime in and say that I agree with what the others are saying. Yes, it is a vital concept (THE vital concept for all mental addition and subtraction) so make sure he's got it before moving on. And, also, kids need to be developmentally ready to make manipulations like that in their heads. It's probably just a matter of waiting a few months for his brain to mature a bit. We've run into a wall at that exact place for both my older girls. I just put away Singapore for a while and waited until they were ready. Sometimes I'd have them do a few problems a day with the RightStart Abacus...

Another thought (and ignore this if it overwhelms you!) is that you might want to think about using Miquon. It is inexpensive, one of the best conceptual teaching math programs, and doesn't require memorization. You will eventually want to work on memorization but it wouldn't be an issue initially with Miquon. Plus you can go right to Singapore (3A, I think) when you're done. If you don't want to switch, consider just buying a set of Cuisenaire rods to help her "see" the facts/bonds.

I'm still not clear on whether she is "carrying and borrowing" on PAPER or in her HEAD. If it is on paper, that does not necessarily mean she understands place value and regrouping. Children can memorize the steps but not really understand what they are actually doing. I know because that's what I did in school! If you are doing it the singapore way she shouldn't have to memorize facts to 20, only to 10. Then she uses those facts to figure out facts to 20 and then facts to 40 and then facts to 100 and so on. She should be able to look at 8+7=? and think something like, "8 needs 2 more to get to 10, so if I take 2 from the 7 and give it to the 8 then I have 5 left. 10+5=15." Our Singapore books explain this very clearly. You might want to think about taking her back to 1A or 1B (or switch to the Primary Math books if what you're using is different. What is MIF? Is that different than the Singapore Primary Mathematics?). I realize I'm not really answering your original question, but I just have a feeling that there is a different and deeper problem than just not being able to remember facts. Conceptual understanding is more important than fact memorization. Does she know about number bonds? Does she know 5+2=7? 9-3=6? Is it those kinds of problems that she's having trouble with - the ones where the answer is 10 or under? The "big dry erase triangles" - is that number bonds? Something like this...? 5 / \ 2 3 Sorry for all the questions!