By "math facts" do you mean mulitplication facts? Or do you mean add/sub facts to 10 or 20? I only have my girls memorize the facts (as number bonds) to 10 and then they use that info to figure out every other addition/subtraction problem. We use Singapore and that's the way it teaches to do it. I see you're using Singapore, too. If your dd is in 2A like your signature says, I don't think she needs to have the multiplication facts memorized yet. And, since you're using Singapore, she shouldn't need to memorize the add/sub facts to 20 like many math curricula do. When you say she understands regrouping are you talking about mental math or the algorithm written out where you cross out a number and move it to another place?

I haven't read all the replies so this may be a repeat, but... 1. Give yourself some grace. This is a huge adjustment for you and them. It's not going to run smoothly right away. Changing your expectations may help you have more patience. 2. I've felt that frustration and lack of patience before, and when that happens I know there's something I need to really take a deeper look at. That evening or that weekend I will sit down and try to evaluate if there is anything I can change. Reading a few homeschool books and finding what methods and philosophies you are comfortable with will help with this. I also pray and ask God to show me what's off. Oftentimes it's something that needs to change on my end, not my kids'. 3. A routine and a weekly checklist really help to keep everything running smoothly. We all like to know what to expect - kids, too! But I do also let my kids go longer when they really want to. This helps build the "want to" in our educational stuff. Or I let them keep playing pretend that they are women living in Rome even though I know we haven't done language arts yet. If it's constructive or educational I really try to change my plans and allow for that. It's a hard balance, though! 4. I try to keep everything low pressure. I require that they do a little bit of math every day but I let them choose how much and which curriculum (we're doing two). And I'M TOTALLY FINE with it if they only do one page. I do sometimes encourage them to do more, but not often. I can do this because I know there will be times when, like tonight when I let them stay up later if they wanted to do some math, they will do 20 pages in a row happily. Letting them have more say in their education really helps it not seem like much of a chore to them. We do this in other subjects, too. Sometimes they ask if they can write a letter to Grandma instead of handwriting for the day. I almost always say yes to requests like this. I'm not a slave to curriculum or schedule. 5. Put something fun in each day. A board game for all to play together. Time to jump on the trampoline or go for a bike ride. Play "store" and get in math practice without them realizing (or caring!). Read aloud a fun book. Play with legos. Build a fort. 6. Make sure you have at least an hour long break each day. Have them play/read quietly in their rooms so you can have alone time. 7. My kids have definitely done the "I don't know" thing (along with hysterics/whining/crying/pouting/tantrums) when they just don't want to turn their brains on. It is FRUSTRATING. What has helped here is to make them aware of it and make it top priority. On the top of our white board I have written "DO HARD THINGS!" because that is our main goal for this year (and was last year, too!). I've had to sit down and talk with my kids about how I really try to give them things that are not too difficult and not too easy but just a little bit challenging (hard). And I give examples (and write them on the board for my 6yo visual learner) of things that would be in each category. They know it is top priority and when they start to throw a fit about something being too hard I take a deep breath, stroke their hair or ask if they need a hug, and ask if they need help. Then I try to slowly lead them to the answer. (I'm still working on this. I had many years of basically giving people the answer and not actually making them work for it when I tutored before.) My almost 8 year old is doing SO much better than last year. My 6 year old cries several times per week because she thinks she can't do something when she really can. I'm telling myself that it will eventually get better! 8. Sometimes something may actually be too hard. If you find that it's the same concept or skill that is being complained about, then it might be wise to drop it for a while. Your little one learning to read is a perfect example. Knowing the sounds of the letters and actually putting them together to make a word are two different skills. I would definitely NOT push the issue on that. For most kids there is just a point where they reach a certain mental maturity and it suddenly clicks for them and they can sound out words. I teach my kids the letter sounds and then wait (usually a looooong time, like months or years) until they can finally read consonant/vowel/consonant words. At that point I move on to blends and so forth. If I were you, I'd stop FORMAL reading instruction and just talk throughout the day about sounds. Play a game where he guesses what word you are saying when you separate the sounds out... like, "P-O-T" and he has to yell out "pot!" Do it with longer words if he gets the shorter ones right away. Make it fun! Overall, just release yourself and your kids from the pressure of perfection. Maybe only do two subjects until those are going well, then add another. IT WILL TAKE TIME to get to where you want to be. Things will get better. You'll get the hang of it. Keep reading here and on other forums. Find homeschool books or websites that you like. But give yourself some grace. You CAN do it!

Thank you!

I am fully prepared to do that, but, yes, that is good to know! Thanks! (I may be posting here for help from you and others from time to time if I don't understand something! Hope you guys won't mind!)

Thank you! I plan on going through it with my girls so that shouldn't be a problem. My highest academic goal for them is that they learn to think critically so I don't mind spending more time on that. It's a little scary to think of dropping Singapore for something brand new that no one has used before, but it seems like it may have the good about Singapore plus deeper and more varied problem solving questions. I just want to make sure that BA will be a good fit for us. It sounds like it just might!

I posted another question for those of you with a sample chapter. I'd really appreciate it if you'd take a look! Thank you!!! http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3217309#post3217309

Am I correct in assuming there is no teacher guide? If so, does the instruction seem clear enough for someone who memorized all the algorithms/formulas in school but didn't truly understand it? I've found the Singapore HIGs very useful for helping to teach ME how to do mental math, but I've also found that I haven't needed the guides much (nor used the textbook as much) for the other parts. I like having the IG there to "hold my hand" but I'm willing to use Beast Academy without an IG if the instruction is clear enough. So, if you have a BA sample chapter, what do you think?

Ahhhhh! So excited! Yes, a scope and sequence would be nice to have at this point for sure!

Yeah, I'd say that sounds like enough! The samples I've seen don't seem like that at all. 4 problems per page, I think. That must not be the average or the book would be huge!

Oh, no. Don't tell me that! I need BA to come out on time (or pretty close) for it to work for us!

See, this is what made me start thinking about this in the first place. I would think there would be some kids for whom AoPS math would work well no matter what - those who have "the gift" anyway. But what about the average kids? Wouldn't they need materials that would encourage problem solving at an early age to get them used to that type of thinking (since it may not come naturally)? I feel like I was one of those kids. I did well in school because I had an excellent memory. I could take in information and spit it back out for tests just fine, but taking information and making something new out of it (higher order thinking) was not my strong point at all. I feel like I'm only just beginning to learn how to think in the past few years. And I also always chose the easiest route. I wouldn't do something if I didn't think I could be perfect at it (get a 4.0). I would never have chosen AoPS for myself back then. BUT NOW... I'm inspired to learn. I see the value in critical thinking, etc. I'm thinking of getting the AoPS algebra book for myself just to go through so I can be prepared if and when my girls get there. Maybe motivation is the key factor in it all. And persistence...

LOL! OK, I agree with you, too! But, really, no matter what the future holds for their math education we will continue with Miquon until we're done and then either Singapore or Beast Academy. In my opinion, those are all excellent choices. That's why I chose them, of course!

How many practice problems does there seem to be per lesson? Are they even divided into lessons like in Singapore where it has the little arrow that says which workbook lesson to do? I guess it will depend on the kid whether or not it will be enough practice. I don't even know whether or not my girls need a lot of practice. We're doing 2 curricula so they seem to almost always understand exactly how to do everything because a lot of it is covered in both. We've only run into a wall once or twice (with manipulating numbers within 20) and I know that was a mental maturity thing. Anyway, maybe it's possible that they won't need that much practice with new concepts. I won't know until we get there, I guess...

Oh, I forgot about that! Yes, that would be nice to have! Gosh, I can't wait for it all to come out! Does anyone else feel like a geek when you get so excited about curriculum? LOL! I'm the only one I know IRL that does that! My poor husband is the only one I have to talk to about it all. He's learned to just smile and nod... :)

Oh, another thing - I put the add/subtract within 20 problems on popsicle sticks, stuck them in a mug, and we used them with the Candyland board. Simple, fun, and effective!

The addition to 20 (using Singapore's method) is the foundation of mental math. I think you're right to stop for a while if they aren't getting it. It sounds like it's not a problem with the curriculum, though, but is most likely a developmental issue. Mentally manipulating numbers in the way Singapore teaches requires a mental maturity that most K'ers don't yet have. (Remember, it's a 1st grade book!) I actually had the same situation with both of my girls at that point in the book. We just stopped doing Singapore for a while and did "life" instead. Every once in a while (like, every few months) I'd check to see if they were ready. Once they were we moved on. I guess you could go to Right Start for a while if you aren't comfortable with just not doing math workbooks for a while, but IME you don't NEED to. You could just talk about math throughout the day. I sometimes lay in bed with my kids when they're going to sleep at night and say math problems for them to work out. They like this because they get time alone with me and get to stay up later! Oh, one thing that I've found REALLY helps with this concept is the Right Start Abacus. We don't use their curriculum but I couldn't do without the abacus. It is the perfect tool for teaching this concept! You could just make up 5 problems per day of adding/subtracting within 20 and have them use the abacus to find the answer. Once they start doing it without the abacus you know they've got it! HTH!

Hmmmm.... well, thank you for challenging my assumptions! I've known for quite a while that you can't judge what type of reader a child will be as a teen/adult at a young age, but I guess I didn't think that would apply to math, too. I guess I really do need to just wait and see how it all pans out...

I was wondering which forum to put this question in. I guess I chose the wrong one! So, you're basically saying I probably won't find my answer, at least for now. That's alright. It's not super important at this point. You said you don't classify your kids when they're young. I try hard not to label my kids, especially to their face, but I guess I've been assuming that their math ability now gives a clear hint to their later math ability. Have you found that to not necessarily be the case? My oldest is only 7 so I have no experience with this! I'll go check out the thread you linked to. Thank you!

http://www.beastacademy.com/ It's a curriculum by the people at Art of Problem Solving for grades 2-5. The 3rd grade book is supposed to come out this coming summer.

See, my girls are great at computation (for their ages) but hate problem solving because they don't like to THINK! I wonder which type of kid would do better with BA? We'll probably at least get the guide book as a supplement to read together even if we don't do the whole program.

My kids really do like math a lot - it's just those problems where the format of the page is not familiar. That's when they freak out because they "don't know what to do." They don't like to put forth effort to figure out what is required of them. We get the same thing with their Critical Thinking books sometimes. Once I gently guide them toward understanding what the page is about then they can almost always do it just fine. Maybe they will one day in the future find a love of problem solving. That's what I'm hoping, at least! I remember the same thing as you describe - discovering that I liked math once I reached pre-algebra. It is SO much more fun than arithmetic! I'm still wondering, though, if anyone has actually used AoPS with an average student....

Oooo, that makes me very happy if what you're saying turns out to be true for the whole 3rd grade book! That means we can do Singapore 3A and 3B and then move to BA 3 and be right on track. And I won't have to worry as much about their 4th grade book being out in time, either. I was planning on still doing the CWP books along with BA, but I didn't think about doing the IP books, too. That might be a good idea for us since my kids are "merely" good at math, not gifted. They may need that extra practice.

Thank you for the replies! Both were very helpful! I'll still gladly take any other thoughts from anyone else who'd like to chime in!

I agree that Miquon seems like it is more similar to what I hear AoPS is like. Singapore seems like a traditional method of teaching, but focusing on extra skills. Miquon is completely different - more number intuition development, I guess. That's why we do both. They each have their own merits. You're right that I shouldn't worry about high school math at this point! LOL! I don't think I'm actually worrying, though - just trying to think ahead. Though, it may not be that far ahead since we're almost to 3rd grade math. That means 3-4 years until Pre-Algebra... I want something with a teaching style LIKE AoPS if we can't actually use it because it's so difficult.

First of all, was the 3rd grade perimeter/area chapter the ONLY one sent out for review? Second, if you have a sample chapter, does it look like there would be no need for an additional critical thinking book if you were to use Beast Academy for math? Third, for those who have Singapore math as well, does the Beast 3rd grade seem more difficult than Singapore 3rd grade? My oldest is in Singapore 2B right now. I'm sure she will get through at least 3A before summer. I'm sure it's difficult to tell with just the perimeter/area chapter, but would you guess that going from Singapore 3 to Beast 3 would be fine or would it be a step down? Fourth, does Beast Academy seem challenging (like AoPS)? The sample pages did not seem difficult at all. My oldest did them easily and my 6yo took a little longer, but the only one she didn't get was the perimeter of 13 question. The reason I'd want to switch would be to get those more challenging, deep-thinking type of problems - problems that will hopefully prepare them for the middle/high school AoPS books. I REALLY wish I could see more of the book! My girls are enamored with the sample pages. I could take or leave the "beast" theme, but the colorful story format seems perfect for us….