I am in many ways a libertarian, though not card-carrying, but.. This was EXACTLY my feeling about it.

I am in many ways a libertarian, though not card-carrying, but.. This was EXACTLY my feeling about it.

I'm no expert, but both my husband and daughter are dyslexic. Each has their own *issues* that I do think are related to dyslexia, but they don't have trouble with focus or memory in general.

Comprehension questions are pivotal part of education, whether you use WWE or not. Does he dislike comprehension questions or just the reading selections and style/tone of the WWE "script"? If the former, I'd say it's probably because he finds it challenging, and all the MORE reason he needs them. If the latter, consider finding something else, or use your own reading selections/questions, but it is absolutely imperative, IMO, that he be able to answer comprehension questions. What I like about the WWE script is that it's mixed up. Sometimes the questions focus on key plot points, other times on remembering details, etc. It's an exercise in memory, listening, verbal summary, etc.

I like the word use. As others said, overdone, but he'll figure that out on his own, or through critique that will he'll be ready for in a couple years. For example, the use of "interrogated" is an eye-rolling choice in that context, but he's in 4th grade. I wouldn't say anything to discourage a 4th grader from experimenting with diverse vocabulary. Right now, I'd focus more on using line breaks and spaces, especially as spaces relate to punctuation. (Did he type this, or did you type it in a way that emulates his choice of spaces and line breaks on paper?)

I love it! I am going to hazard a guess she has heard a lot of myths and classical fairy tales/fables, too?

I am a newbie with this, so I'd really appreciate some feedback. Of course my 4th grader has done writing assignments before, but I've always been there walking her through the process for anything of substance. This time I had her chose a topic, helped her find books on her topic, gave her a deadline, and walked away. Big first for the both of us. The writing quality clearly went down when I was hands-off, but I think this still looks good for where she should be. Caveat - after her first draft, I had to have her correct about half a dozen sentences that were just totally screwy (missing words, sentence fragments, etc.) but I restrained myself from correcting beyond that. I also had to remind her to add a concluding paragraph. Please be honest - and remember we're at the end of 4th grade here. We don't have a co-op or anything so I'm operating in somewhat of a vacuum. If we're behind where we should be I do really want to know. Also, we are using WWE3 right now, and I've been using it one year behind because she's mildly dyslexic and the spelling issues were so paralyzing to her at first that we had to use it a year behind as the dictation was too killer. Dyslexia is addressed to the point where I have my finger on the trigger to buy WWS for next year (and skip WWE4.) What do you think?

So my current 4th grader has been using WWE3 this year. She's actually quite gifted with language, but is dyslexic, and her inability to spell & tendency to skip or switch words was *so* crippling with writing and dictation, that she wasn't ready for WWE1 at all in 1st grade, and I had her start it in 2nd. (She's an older 4th grader, too - Sept. birthday.) I was quite happy with it in general, but what often our use of it looked like, was a swift *breeze* through all the comprehension Q&A and narration, and then torturous hand-holding through the dictation portions. This year she received some intensive tutoring for dyslexia, and while she's no great speller, she has made huge strides and spelling is no longer a crippling obstacle to writing and dictation. WWE3 has recently switched to more independent work and while I've been a HUGE WWE advocate, it is starting to look like it might just be trivial to her. The only thing I'd say is she still can't seem to hold all the dictation in her head however - not the *exact* wording, but she holds all the ideas of the sentences with ease, but maybe just changes some of the wording a bit and I'll have to correct her. I still have to correct a lot of spelling, but it's no longer a source of paralysis for her. Composition wise, though, she is clearly ready for a lot more. She has done multi-paragraph papers/writing contests/etc without too much difficulty. I don't currently own WWE4 and I'm debating whether to get it or just skip ahead to WWS. Any insights?

I also have to put in I'm not a historian either, but I consider myself pretty well-educated. I myself have learned a quite a bit from reading it to my kids, and have come away with a few things I've looked into further because it did challenge what I recall learning from school. Like this week I learned.... Richard the Lionhearted was kind of a jerk. SWB doesn't really come right out and say he was a jerk, but there impression from SotW is that, and when I did some follow-up reading.. yeah, he kind of was a jerk. My own history education left me with the golden-haired hero king image. My kids on the other hand, heard SotW and said "That guy sounds like Gilderoy Lockheart". That's the kind of connections I want my kids coming away with and retaining for when they look at this stuff again in high school. :)

What I recall from reading the Amazon critics before I made the decision to purchase (some two years ago now), as that people found it the whole narrative style "inaccurate" because it weaves stories, myths, and folktales into the historical narrative. It is not always clearly stated in the text that certain parts of the narrative are from oral tradition/folklore/religion vs some other kind of more verifiable historical record (which in the case of history, btw, doesn't always exist.) I decided this concern wasn't particularly relevant for my purposes, as I was using it to get my children to understand the basic historical timeline that would hopefully stick with them in a visceral way so that later study of history would have a foundation to build upon. I'm almost through Vol 2 with my kids now (after doing Vol 1) and I'm quite happy with it. I don't remember reading anything that struck me as "WHOA! This is inaccurate!" Yes, myths, Bible stories, folk tales, etc, are woven into the narrative, as are some creative first-person narratives that SWB to help paint a picture to children (Imagine you are flying on a magic carpet over the Mediterranean Sea....) I find these things helpful in terms of establishing understanding for my kids. They aren't coming away from this experience with a firm grasp on details anyways - they are just learning the generalities. They are learning, as the title so aptly puts it, the story of the world. To me, it is a text that is supposed to be a foundation for discussion. How do you think historians know this happened? Do you think this really happened? Is there enough evidence? What is truth, and what is story? By the way, coming from a pretty non-religious perspective here. I'm Jewish, with a very non-literal view of the Bible. One of the reasons I remember thinking SotW was likely for us, was in the Amazon reviews I remember some reviews criticizing the accuracy because SWB included non-Christian mythology and folklore in the storytelling instead of making it strictly Bible worldview... and ardent secularists criticizing the accuracy because she included the Bible at all. In my view, that's a win-win.

Giving this one bump to give it another chance. If there's continued radio silence I'll assume there's not much interest out there. :)

Well, that's the thing. What I'm putting together isn't about setting a creative side free, so much as it is about teaching the skills of drawing and observation for the sake of learning fundamentals and acquiring a useful skill. (Being "free" I think, comes in early childhood, and again after fundamental skills are acquired.) My experience in art school was that many did not have any technical skill. They were still *free* and the art world liked to endorse their work, but the truth is, their lack of technical skill was restrictive and forced limits on what they could create.

I wanted to feel out the community here to ask about what they are doing for visual art in the middle grades, if anything, and also feedback for an idea I have. I am a visual artist, with a degree in art, professional art experience, and some training in art education. My oldest daughter is a 4th grader who loves to draw and paint and has recently decided it is her goal to attend as a visual arts student at a special statewide public school for the arts that starts in 7th grade. (She is currently homeschooled.) This kind of accelerated to a higher priority something I planned on doing anyways, is offering her (around 5th grade) a more academic art education than I've seen present itself in schools or even most curricula. It has always been my firm belief that while it does require creativity and inspiration to be an artist, drawing is a skill like any other, that can be learned with instruction and practice. And a useful skill at that, for any well-rounded person, as it is a tool for communication just like writing or speaking. So I started setting up lessons for her in the form of printables that offer instruction, reasoning, and examples. While I am teaching her verbally, I already had some of this content drawn up for homeschool art classes I had taught in the past, and I wanted to expand upon it and also provide her something that she could use for reference while doing the exercises. The focus of the "curriculum" I'm making (If you want to call it that, but I suppose as it's shaping up, that would be fair) really approaches art as an academic subject. I don't plan on doing much to address creativity or meaning. As an artist, of course I understand creativity and meaning are VITALLY important, but I feel so many art programs available here (classes and such) are the equivalent of trying to get a child to write creatively before they firmly understand the basics of grammar, spelling, and language. I know art is *different* than a subject like grammar, and I think an intuitive exploration of creativity and media is fantastic in the lower elementary grades, but it's these middle grades/late elementary where I think students are ready to approach drawing as a skill and to understand the core fundamentals of art as an academic subject (after which, the creativity comes back into play.) Topics I plan to approach with this: observation skills, visual deconstruction, line, shape, form, shadow, value, light, perspective, proportion, pattern, mathematical phenomenon in nature, anatomy for the artist, symmetry/asymmetry, color, composition, and the technical skills necessary to use a variety of media. It occurred to me as I was making PDFs for my own kid, that this is something that might be of interest to other people? Is it? Is there something else you already use that covers this? If so, what do you like about it? What *don't* you like about it?

I think learning an instrument is excellent mental conditioning, and I love that mine are having the experience of playing in an orchestra with peers. I think there's a lot of value from playing an instrument that can't really be described or quantified. That said, I don't think I'd force the issue if they hated it. My kids are definitely not passionate musicians. but they enjoy it well enough and I consider it part of their education.

I recommend Vi Hart's videos to any gifted child interested in creative math. She has great videos on many topics, including paper-folding. My 7 yr old spent 3 hours one afternoon watching this video frame-by-frame so she could fold hexaflexagons. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIVIegSt81k

*bump* Anyone have any recs?

Does anyone know of any kind of curriculum that helps build speaking skills? I've had occasion to observe my kids speaking in front of a group (as opposed to just oral reading), and their skills are terrible. Then again, ALL the kids their age were terrible (scout event.) I am wondering if there is a curriculum that's something like this; daily readings with coaching advice for helping develop good speaking skills. I know there's always the option of just selecting my own stuff and having them go to town, but if someone has gone through the work of pre-screening readings that are good for this purpose and has made a curriculum out of it, all the better!

Wow. This quote is in response to MY post! How surreal. This was hard to read at the time. I'll just update by saying this year I ended up getting help for my DD with an Orton-Gillingham tutor 3x a week. We had an amazing opportunity fall into our lap to get her this tutoring at an affordable rate. It's been a huge blessing, because I'm not sure I would have been enough of a believer to do things for my daughter myself with that approach, which requires a LOT of slow, careful patience. Now that I've seen the results I would be able to apply some of those methods without feeling like I was just spinning my wheels. But, we are blessed to have found this tutor - she has knowledge and talent to work with her in a way that would be very difficult for me. The child this post was in response to no longer thinks of herself as "dumb". Her spelling has improved dramatically. Is she a great speller? No, but her spelling issues are no longer totally crippling. We do see the light at the end of the tunnel for sure - and not in a way that the problems are going to go away (they're not), but that they are manageable and not seen by her as a reflection on her intelligence or a significant obstacle to success.

I used "read some books about science topics of interest from the library" and "sign up for the homeschool science class once a month at the science center" and "answer science questions that come up." Kiddo scored 98th percentile on the science section of her SAT 10. I'm married to a physicist though, so ambient family science discussion is probably more sufficient for us than the average household. I have RS4K in my sig, but after trying a few experiments I didn't feel like it was worth our time. The kids have read the books independently, though.

Yup, my daughter is doing OG tutoring and even that, which is only 4 hours a week + a large investment in math fact reiteration, I feel really puts a kink in our days. Her activities are important to her (she is SUPER social), so we've continued on with those (scouts, dance, orchestra, and religious school), but I find "extra" academics, such as art, science projects, history projects, or even formal literature study beyond assigned reading, just haven't happened much this year. That's OK, we squeeze those things in when we can. I rationalize the activities in my head as part of her education - if I gave up orchestra and dance for science projects and history projects, I'd be sacrificing music and physical education - so what? We still cover science and history fundamentals. I am glad that in our case, my daughter has made amazing progress through tutoring. I'd actually almost be OK with her discontinuing, but in a few more months she will be done with whole OG sequence, and so since we've had such great results I am invested in having her complete the program. But, I am very much looking forward to next year, and having some of those hours back to pursue other things. I feel for you if it's more of a long-term thing - but at the end of the day you gotta do what you gotta do. Everything is a trade-off.

To start WWE 1, a student should be comfortable writing letters (both capitals and lower case), and words (with spaces), and be able to listen and comprehend longer passages from literature and remember basic details (not just picture books or easy readers.) If your K student can do that, they should be fine with WWE1.

We have a color laser printer. Best investment ever.

I would add to this a few standbys that I'm really glad we *own* and will be revisited in the future: - a good, solid book of Greek and Roman myths. D'Aulaires' Book of Greek Myths is frequently recommended. It's worth owning. - a good, illustrated children's Bible (whether you're religious or not, just for the stories - I suppose this one is debatable, but I love the illustrated Epic of Gilgamesh 3 book storybook series. One we got out of the library was Mary Pope Osborne's version of the Odyssey in audio format, but frankly I'd love to have a book version around the house, too. I mention these, as I think these will be the books that get revisited next time we come back to Ancient History. A lot of what we got from the library was fine, but I'd never use them again, such as Flat Stanley's adventures in Ancient Egypt or Lyle, Lyle Crocodile on the Nile or whatnot. If there's a good book of Egyptian mythology for kids, that'd be worth it, too, though I myself never picked one up.

I find that learning phonics, while tedious, is absolutely ESSENTIAL for my dyslexic child in relation to spelling. She is a fluent reader and phonics played minimal role in her developing reading fluency. She is language-oriented and learned to read fluently through context, whole language, and pure force of will. When I first started homeschooling my dyslexic child, we tried the memorized lists. Here's the problem with memorized lists; a bright dyslexic child may have no problem with that spelling work. They'll get 100% on the spelling test even. But have those same words come up a few weeks later, and it's like they never studied them at all. The letters just get scrambled again. The memorized list approach, I think, is better for a student who is NOT dyslexic. My youngest does that, intuitively. If she's seen a word in writing, she knows how to spell it. Done. We have seen dramatic spelling improvement this year with the implementation of two heavy phonics programs. One is Orton-Gillingham tutoring. We had an amazing, affordable opportunity fall into our lap with a student tutor, though knowing what I do now, I would have implemented it myself at home if I did not have access to an affordable tutor. A lot of OG revisits reading and while it seems tedious, it trains the dyslexic student (who probably learned to avoid phonics as much as possible while learning to read), to develop phonetic awareness. The second program we are using - specifically for spelling - is Phonetic Zoo. Little jingles with spelling rules, and a audio-based approach works well for my dyslexic student. Don't get me wrong - she's not a good speller. We are still constantly confronting errors, and I don't think she'll ever be an excellent speller. But she has improved dramatically, and when she applies what she has learned with conscious effort, she can spell most phonetic words correctly (or at least in a manner that makes phonetic sense.) Really our goal is to get her out of the embarrassing zone with spelling, before I just loose her on doing all her writing on a computer with access to spell checking. At this rate, I do think I can get her there by middle school (not something I would have been confident enough to say even 1 year ago.) By the way, my daughter is 10 1/2, so almost exactly your DD's age.

What good thing about WWE I think is that even with the script, it is not condescending at all. I think it would be fine for a teen or even an adult, if they never learned to write. I would probably do a full "week" (4 lessons) at least in one day with a 17 yr old, even with a slow learner. I do think the curriculum is designed to take into account the limited attention span of young children, as well as developmental issues that make the process slower for a younger child (such as, being mechanically slow with forming words and letters on paper.) Even a very young child does a lesson in 10-15 minutes, so even if the 17 yr old is taking that long, and spending 40-60 minutes a day on writing is reasonable for a 17 yr old (assuming we're talking about learning disabilities and not some overall cognitive issue that relates to his ability to focus at his maturity level.) You could probably accelerate especially quickly through level 1 since so much of it is listening and narration - only about 2 lessons a week involve actual writing, and then it's mostly copywork. Plus, I assume with a 17 yr old your goal is to bring him up to speed, so I'd go through it as quickly as possible to bring him up to speed. Modifications I'd suggest, assuming he can write legibly and clearly - is (if you are using the workbook for easy scripting), forgo the student pages and have him do any work on plain paper, as the elementary writing paper on levels 1-3 might seem condescending to him. Also, if any copywork exercise appears too trivial for him, just make it dictation instead. I also expect it is possible that even a *slow* teen will *get it* much quicker than a 1st or 2nd grader, as the program involves repetition. If the repetition is needed, use it, but if he "gets it" and is ready to move on, skip a lesson here and there and get through it to the more advanced levels.