It's interesting to see you post here, because you've given me lots of advice and good counsel in the Learning Challenges board for my 2E daughter (now almost 12, rising 6th grader.) VERY asynchronous? I think I can understand that. Just got standardized tests back a few days ago.. mine is a girl who has scored as low as 23rd percentile in certain math exams, while at the same time getting 96th-99th in language, listening, and science. What you do to prioritize I imagine must vary so much from kid to kid. For my dd, the biggest synchronicity was she had a gifted-level understanding of storytelling and narratives, but her spelling and ability to physically write words on paper in the correct order was so cripplingly bad that she could hardly write a sentence. So what did I do? I handled the spelling and dyslexia issues separately, but made sure to make time to let her verbally "write" with me typing up her papers and stories. I'm pleased to say that now, she's reached a level of competence and is now self-reliant in continuing to shore up her weaknesses. (That is, she can now get her own wonderful ideas down on paper without my help with anything but the editing process.) We're still working on math remediation. Again, I've let her move ahead with problem solving and concepts, even though we've had to handle her ability to calculate with kid gloves. Opinions vary too. My husband, who shared some of her issues and ended up quite successful, quite strongly felt we should just say "screw it" and let her use a spell checker and a calculator. I somewhat disagreed. While I know she's never going to be an amazing speller or quick with arithmetic, I felt for her own sense of security and confidence it was important to do the necessary work to shore up those weaknesses. I agreed, however, that it was important never to let our addressing of the weaknesses get in the way of her exploring her strengths, even though it often feels counter-intuitive or impossible to address both at once. I will at some point give it up to the spell checker and calculator - and that time is coming in the next year or two. I feel we're *almost there* and the commitment to helping her work on weaknesses has really paid off.

Some of the books recommended are more a 2nd-3rd grade level, but that is *just fine*. Do remember just because he's reading at a 5th grade level, doesn't mean he *has* to read 5th grade level books. The problem really arises when they are in middle elementary grades and they've now burned through all the best children's lit and want to start reading young adult. That gets REALLY tough, because even though gifted kids often end up with mature minds, there is an emotional cap when it comes to the *adolescent barrier*, So I advise letting him enjoy sweet, whimsical children's literature in the K-3rd grade levels as long as you can get away with it. Another diversionary tactic is to shift the child over to nonfiction as much as you can. In nonfiction, you don't have to worry about the emotional tenor of the reading material nearly as much. A lot of young early readers just LOVE reading books of facts and lists and details about rocks, dinosaurs, planets, etc. Of course fiction enjoyment is very important too, but by diving into the nonfiction you can really spread the love a bit. USBorne or DK Eyewitness encyclopedias might become your son's best friend. Trust me - you DO get to the point where everything the librarian suggests, your child will say "I've already read that." And these voracious readers get picky as they get older too. There's a lot of mediocre kid lit too and they learn to recognize it earlier than most. Not trying to be holier than thou - my child read the entire Harry Potter series by fall of 2nd grade and the Hunger Games trilogy in 4th grade - but that was WITH me trying to hold her off as much as I felt was reasonable. And gosh you have a boy? The kid-lit choices are thinned out substantially. Nonfiction!

I see Reflex Math has come recommended for dyslexic students who also have trouble retaining math facts. I did a search on the forum and found a lot of references to younger children using it or people who "just started" using it and are happy with. I have a rising 6th grader, almost 12 yrs old. She still has trouble with fact retention in all operations, slow to calculate, etc. She has made progress - a lot of two steps forward, one step back. At this point I'd say she knows all of her lower level multiplication facts and the associated division (if given a chance to pause and make the connection) - and she no longer hesitates when adding or subtracting small numbers to larger ones. But she's still not where she should be and her limitations still make regular math assignments take much more time than they should. I'm just curious to hear any experiences with older kids and if they've had any *particular* success with Reflex Math. Is it babyish for those kids? Did they like it? Did they respond to it any better than the tons of other things out there ( we have used xTraMath, Khan Academy, Math Rider, various apps, good old-fashioned flash cards, memory tricks, Times Tales) All of those things worked a little, but nothing particularly special. (It's say Times Tales worked the quickest, but the retention didn't happen long-term, and she now finds the video slow and condescending.) I know there's a free trial and we will be trying that trial when she gets back from summer camp. I'd just like to know what to expect.. am I just continuing to chase a holy grail when this is just 'more of the same' fact practice?

Hmm. I am really liking the idea of Elemental Science Logic Stage Biology for 6th grader with bio-knowledge gaps and highly gifted 4th grader. Anyone know how relevant the teacher guide is? (Not against it, but it seems like half the teacher guides I buy are a waste and just sit on the shelf.)

Any recommendations for something for Middle School science? NOT religious. And as trivial as this sounds, no Comic Sans font please. I can't handle it.

Daughters! But thanks :)

I know this thread is old, but people Google up old threads and I felt the need to post. I need to eat crow after what I remembered posting on this thread in the past. There was a deal on Homeschool Buyer's Co-Op so I went ahead and bought a Kistler program for my kids. They remained hungry for more art lessons than I felt inclined to give them personally at this late date when I am bogged down with end of year and pre summer camp stuff. I remembered some here recommended it and the price was right so I figured why not. There IS definitely much more depth than it appears! After so many of those how-to-draw-a-(fill in the blank) crap books, I had assumed this was more of the same as that is how it appears at a glance. I was wrong! He does definitely hit on a lot of principles while hiding under the guise of how-to-draw-a-(fill in the blank) which kids seem to INSIST on wanting. Some said the videos were fast but my kids can keep up. They have had a lot of art instruction, so they dove right in to some of the intermediate and advanced topics and could keep right up. So I'd say it would be maximized with kids who have had other art instruction - I can see why kids with none would need to pause a lot. After just a couple days of watching his videos: 9-year-old's lesson: 11-year-old's lesson: Again, they went into it knowing how to draw fairly well but this did kick it up a notch, even for copying an instructed composition. Crow eaten.

Ok, don't throw the tomatoes at me, but when my kids go to standardized testing I buy them total junky crap snacks JUST for the occasion. We don't normally buy those things, and it's a way my kids look forward to test day and find it an extra fun break in routine. It jazzes them to have those "forbidden" snacks packed up for test days! We just did standardized tests last week and I let them bring snack bags of Oreo cookies. :) Our testing is only morning testing, 9am - 12 pm with really kids done at 11:30 most of the time. From snack time to testing done is maybe 90 minutes, so if there's a sugar crash it's after they're done. We do a healthy breakfast with protein, however.

This is my 12 yr old daughter. Minus the "H", and I don't *actually* think she's ADD, but she demonstrated strong ADD tenancies when she was younger and if she had remained in public the school probably would have pushed for a diagnosis in that arena. Homeschooling was a huge help, because I went ahead and *let* her do her schoolwork standing up with the wiggly feet and singing to herself constantly and the doodles on her paper. (She has since outgrown most of that behavior.) She was in school for Kinder and a few months of 1st before we decided the classroom was taking too big a toll on her progress. I suspect there are a myriad of answers to "what does this look like?" With my daughter it was crippling spelling problems, massive struggles with math facts and (earlier on) numeracy, constantly distracted and "in her own world", speech articulation delays, figetiness - combined with phenomenal listening comprehension (even if it seemed like she wasn't listening at all), wonderful drawings, elaborate creations, incredible storytelling abilities complete with an early understanding of story arcs and characterizations (though early on, she had to dictate), astute interpersonal insights, great observational skills, and voracious reading. The voracious reading came after initial dyslexia-related difficulties were overcome - but the giftedness masks some of the dyslexia, making it really hard to understand the dyslexia. In these students you may see a phenomenal amount of context reading. One clue for us was - she couldn't spell a thing, and if you asked her to read orally it was a complete mess, but if you gave her a book and then asked comprehension questions, she understood everything she read. The fact that a gifted dyslexic is context reading becomes fascinatingly apparent when you hear these kids talk about what they read and they get to mentioning proper nouns or new words they had no verbal reference for. When they try to talk about the book using these names or words - what comes out of their mouth doesn't remotely resemble the *actual* names or words, save for maybe a key letter or two they latched onto for whatever reason (which may or may not be at the beginning of the name/word). Their brains invent "filler" if they can't draw on their verbal lexicon of known names and words. It's really bizarre, and the opposite of a NON dyslexic gifted reader, who will pronounce unfamiliar names and words with phonetic accuracy to a fault.

Just ordered the main book... we'll see!

OneStep, your daughter sounds so much like mine! And Marie - my husband is also dyslexic and had some of these same issues with numeracy and arithmetic when he was very young. He's now an accomplished engineer and physicist (but still is slower with arithmetic stuff - for example, I'm much quicker at calculating a tip, reading analog clocks, estimating costs, etc, than he is - and I'm an artist.) He keeps telling me to "not worry about it". His theory is that there is something in adolescence that mitigates the problem - for him there was something that 'clicked' around age 13 or 14. I have a hard time "not worrying about it" though. It's my job to worry about it, especially since we're homeschooling. I'm thankful I have another child without this problem that I have taught as well so I can feel somewhat assured that it's not my fault. (Although I still feel like somehow I must be failing to meet her needs. So frustrating.) Last year's standardized test she was 23rd percentile on math procedures. :( Here's something interesting - on that test she was 'below average' in *all* computational sections except fractions. Fractions she was above average. 100% correct. Isn't fractions the thing most 4th graders struggle with the most? Husband says this makes complete sense to him! She scored average in computation in context and thinking skills. She claims she feels like she improved on this year's test and I'll be very curious to see the results. She has improved a lot but she isn't where I'd hope she'd be. She's applying to a public state arts magnet school for 2015/2016. On one hand I want her to be fully prepared to enter a school environment after being homeschooled all this time, on the other I'm told the academic teachers there understand the "other" academic and emotional needs of creatively gifted kids. I hope that includes this arithmetic snafu!

Thanks. I think someone suggested Ronit Bird to me, and I was reluctant because it seemed like awfully expensive for what I was afraid might just come down to a book advising me to do stuff I've already done (c-rods, familiar math games, etc.) My mother who was a 3rd teacher for 20 years claims she NEVER had a student that didn't completely know their multiplication facts cold by the end of the year. Her claim confuses me because I swear I've done EVERYTHING she has advised and then some. My only explanation is that she never followed her challenged kids into the next year. Or the next. I've gotten my DD to know all her multiplication facts down cold, too - for a short period of time. It's just that she doesn't retain them. :(

So my daughter hasn't been formally diagnosed with dyscalculia, but she is mildly dyslexic (diagnosed), and I am assuming has dyscalculia as well just from working with her all these years. We're approaching the end of 5th grade and she still struggles some. I will say she's made a LOT of progress, she's pretty decent at problem solving, and if given time and paper to work with, she can do quite well. But at the end of 5th grade, she still does not have a firm grasp on all her math facts. She has at least SOME memorized, but which ones she has memorized changes from month to month - I swear. Just when she learns new ones, the old ones slip from her memory. Her mental math abilities are also incredibly slow. I'm not sure what else I can do to help her. I've used all the standard resources out there and then some. Xtramath (daily for YEARS), Math Rider, Khan Academy, flash cards, math games, verbal quizzing, etc etc. Just wondering if there is anything out there maybe that specifically targets students with dyscalculia to help? After all these years I feel like we're just spinning our wheels with the typical advice on helping math proficiency. Our other child excels in math so I see how the standard resources work - they just don't work with this child.

Thanks, I'll look into those things. Bumping for any other insights. She can write simple essays. She's almost done with Writing With Skill 1 now and we've been happy with it and I'd like her to do WWS2 next year. She basically runs through it independently and I review her writing. What I'd like is something that involves writing that has an outside instructor's deadlines and assessments, so that she's just not thrown into the fire with no experience with that in 7th grade. I'd like to see some verification on that experience with K12.. there's quite an upcharge for teacher courses so that's pretty appalling if teachers aren't earning their keep!

Ok, my 3rd grader is programming-obsessed. She cited computer programmer as her chosen profession since age 5 and has not changed since (she'll be 9 in a few weeks.) She has tried it ALL. Codecademy - she liked it for a while, but says the site is unstable and glitchy Khan Academy - very stable and lots to learn from in the computer programming section. Basically Javascript. This is where my little programmer got her start, but back then Scratch was less satisfying. (It's much improved now.. see below.) Scratch - a great place to start, but it is a visual language as has limitations - but kids like it because they can get satisfying game-like results very quickly. Once she had a Scratch book, she got a lot more out of it. Another bonus is the latest versions of Scratch are set up like social networking. Kids being able to comment on, view, and modify each other's work really adds something to the entire effort, and even my non-programmy child has enjoyed messing with it. If you're worried about your child being on an online community - don't here. Really. I mean, of course remind your child about internet safety, but the Scratch community is truly just a bunch of kid nerds and I've watched it quite carefully and have never seen anything inappropriate. Code Avengers -she didn't last more than a day on it, so I guess it sucked, or at least did at the time we tried it. CodeSpells - is a multiplayer game where players have to code their own spells --- and it sadly, it kinda stinks. She was so looking forward to this one, but it fell flat. We keep hoping development will result in improvement, but their blog hasn't been updated in a year so we're not holding out much hope. Learnstreet - her newest addition - she says it's like a more stable version of Codecademy and very user friendly. Also, she has a book "Python for Kids" and uses Python on her computer. She recognizes this as the coding she does that she has the most ownership over, but for showing off and sharing it's less impressive. Hope that helps!

So I have an 11 year old 5th grade daughter I've been homeschooling since 1st grade. She's going to be homeschooled next year as well (6th grade), but she wants to apply to a magnet state school for the arts for grades 7-12. While the school is run a little 'outside the box', I still want to make sure she's ready for traditional school. It's actually a boarding school (just during the week - the school is a bit too far to commute but close enough to come home every weekend), so I won't be there in person to help her every day. Content-wise, I have no doubt she will be ready academically for what 7th grade classrooms will require, but I want to make sure she's ready in terms of study skills.and the kind of study that happens in a regular classroom. So far in our homeschool, we have evolved a semi-unschooling approach to our days. I say 'semi' because we still have daily expected work and some traditional expectations, but I haven't kept grades (I just make her re-do until it's right), given her exams, and we stopped formally doing anything but math and writing (and some little quick things, like daily spelling and penmanship work). Instead, I have let them do interest-driven studies, occasionally assigning reading or projects in areas where I notice gaps in knowledge. It has worked quite well for us, but as DD enters 6th grade with plans on attending a school in 7th, I think it's time to hone in on something more traditional. I was looking at maybe K-12 middle school courses for history and literature. Pricey, so wondering if anyone has experience with their courses, or can recommend something similar. I think ideally, an online course with a traditional format and an outside teacher grading her work would serve us best. I think she could really benefit from someone besides mom checking on history and literature writing assignments - not every teacher she has is going to be like me.

Curious if anyone has experience with with a child suffering from feelings of inferiority due to a highly gifted sibling (especially a highly gifted *younger* sibling that is outperforming the older sibling). We dealt with this before and I thought we resolved things, but now those feelings are back with a vengeance. I think it's because the older one is getting the hormones full-force with adolescence in full swing now (she's 11 1/2). It breaks my heart to hear my older DD call herself "stupid" all the time. :( In fact, though she does struggle with dyslexia, older DD is gifted in her own right, just not *exceptionally* so like her sister. She is the furthest thing from stupid. It was easier when we went through this when she was younger but now it seems like nothing I say can convince her to be proud of her own gifts and achievements. Also noticed this child is obsessively drawing now, which is the one area she clearly out-performs little sister. It's not a bad thing that she's drawing and I love it if she is pursuing art because it's her passion, but part of me worries if she's just pursuing something because of her feelings of inferiority or because of what her sister can and can't do. Thoughts?

Of particular relevance to the OP: So here's my confession: when I started homeschooling, I put my youngest in preschool 5 days a week. I didn't even care about whatever educational content the preschool did or didn't have. I just wanted affordable, structured, with a nice teacher so I could get the little one out of my hair for a few hours while I homeschooled her sister. I don't even feel guilty about it. Best. Decision. Ever.

My DD8 started talking this way last year. So I sent her to shadow a day in her grade (a private school - the public wouldn't allow it for 'liability reasons'. Seriously.) Anyways, she was so hyped up and excited and ready to go with her backpack and lunch and she was seriously excited about school. After her day: "How was school?" "It was fine." "Was the teacher nice?" "Yes, she was very nice." "Did you learn anything new?" "No." "You must have learned SOMETHING new." *pause* "I learned what school is like, and that I don't need to go there." It was a risk, I suppose, but one that paid off for us. Her curiosity was satisfied and she learned in one day that school is not what she imagined.

DIY is very new, so not many Maker clubs. The good news is, if you start your own, there is virtually no red tape or paperwork unlike just about any other organization. It's very informal - just get kids/families together to do cool stuff with the site as a platform. I have about half my GS troop on the site now. My youngest (along with some other DIYers) had the opportunity to be interviewed by Google Developers Live because of coding projects she posted on the site. It's like social networking for future artists, engineers, craftsmen, and leaders. :)

diy.org Consider starting a Makers group if there isn't already one in your area! By the way, I am a Girl Scout leader, been leading a multi-age troop for my 2 girls for almost 6 years now. I love it and I'm proud to say I've run an active troop that is well-liked by the girls and parents involved. But the organization as a whole can be difficult to work with and throws many obstacles in the way of leaders who want to do traditional scouting. And my girls DO traditional scouting and love our troop, but they also love, love, LOVE DIY.org and we're just in on the launch of a local club. Even if you don't have a club, DIY.org is a great source of inspiration for scout-minded kids and a way for them to connect with others online in a very positive environment.

I'll share some recommendations from my 11 and 8 yr old daughters. I haven't read all these, by the way. She is a voracious reader, as is her sister, and I can no longer hope to keep up with evaluating everything they read for pleasure. I am an avid reader of fantasy and sci-fi, and I find some disconnect from what I liked as a child and what she does. I think some of what I liked (such as Madeline L'Engle books) are a bit *dated* in her perspective. Some of these selections are undoubtedly fluff but she is critical of many fantasy series, and has used criticisms such as "poorly-written", "predictable", "Harry Potter rip-off", etc. So whether "well-written" or not, they were well-received by children who are often critical of fantasy books. You may dismiss them as poorly written? I have to say, by today's measures I have all kinds of problems with Tolkein's writing, so to some extent it's a matter of picking your poison IMO. :) The Search for Wond-La (probably wait for a bit.. the 8 yr old *just* got into this, and she's an avid reader too. Older one claims this and its sequel are "Better than Harry Potter" and she's a huge HP fan) Avalon: Web of Magic series (the 11 yr old now calls these "a bit environmentalist preachy" but she LOVED them around age 8/9. Possibly girly) Guardians of Ga'Hoole (younger dd was a FANATIC about these books at age 7. Light fantasy plots with owl society) Warriors (the 8 yr old is also a FANATIC about these books, though I think they are intended for an older audience. Not necessarily well-written but kept her stocked with reading material for quite a while) The Familiars series (again, huge hit with the 8 yr old when she was 7 yrs old. About familiars, as in magical animals) Dragon Keepers series (Dragon in the Sock Drawer and its sequels, both kids loved around that age. While they've outgrown them, they'll still blow throw series additions if they spot them in the library, just to see how things progressed.) To throw in a sci-fi pick, older daughter loves The City of Ember - but it may still be too old for the 7 yr old. No one has mentioned I don't think The Invention of Hugo Cabret, which is appropriate for age 7 and very, very light sci-fi-ish.

This, this, a hundred times this!! Not only are they still children, but they are still individuals. Being gifted doesn't mean a person is serious, or focused, or ambitious, or destined to attend an ivy league school or be rich or famous. A gifted child may still want to be a baker or a musician or an elementary school teacher for a living someday. And there's nothing wrong with that. Who decides what is "worthwhile" anyways? My kids ages 8 and 11 are spending all their spare time right now writing their Doctor Who scripts and making Doctor Who puppets and doing voice overs and video editing. Is the end result "worthwhile"? I think so, as they are enjoying it and reaching the limits of their creativity to do something they are passionate about at this point in life.

My math-gifted child (also 8 yrs old) does accelerated MM and then LoF for fun. She also has started learning computer programming using a combination of Code Academy, Scratch, Khan Academy, and a Python for Kids book. My rule is she has to spend 1 hour a day on math, and whatever lessons get done get done. So in 3rd grade she's moved into MM 5a now and that's OK. (At least, it seems, the 'flying through it' has finally started slow down to a reasonable pace in 5a, so maybe your 8 yr old will get there too.) The hour doesn't include programming, but computer programming is a great skill for a mathy kid to start learning at an early age, IMO.

I actually believe that too, and my kids are roughly the same age as yours. On paper my youngest is only about the same 'ahead' depending on how you look at it, you could say 3 yrs ahead. What 'grade level' is widely variable, as even in public schools most kids are operating a wide span in any given grade. (I know public schools system there can be students starting Algebra anywhere from 7th-10th grade and still be considered college-bound.) So youngest DD is currently doing Math Mammoth a little more than 1.5 yrs ahead but I consider MM rigorous. But the early elementary stuff - there's only so much 'depth' that is possible to basic operations. A lot of accelerated math students 'get it' intuitively and can apply it to a wide variety of situations (word problems) and even work the problems mentally. If a child is there, a lot of the 'depth' exercises are intended to develop a skill that the math-gifted child already has intuitively. There's really little use belaboring basic operations if that's the case. Even fractions are as intuitive as basic operations to the child who 'gets it' on an intuitive level. To even ge* 2-3 years ahead, there has to be some *fast* acceleration happening. That's absolutely what public schools do, too - if their teachers are good anyways. They start skipping the kids with intuitive math understanding ahead so that by the time they get to middle and high (when unlike most other subjects, math classes are usually skill-based and not age-based), the student can take the highest possible math class they are capable of taking. The most math-gifted students in a good system will even be moving on to college math in mid-late high school.