I don't think it comes out until April 2, does it? You can read about it at this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Song_(film) ETA thanks for a fixed link, Carmen. I don't know why I can' t get the last ) to come through??

I don't see any reason for that not to work, especially if your student is already a comfortable writer. The first few weeks are always review of writing basics, so you could obviously do the WTM writings during those weeks. You could try doing both writing assignments (TOG & WTM) for a few weeks after that to see if it's too much. If it turns out to be too much, then you might pick a few weeks that have writing assignments in TOG that you don't especially want to cover (maybe playwriting or display boards) and do the outlining in those weeks. TOG is a great tool, but don't feel to legalistic about following every single detail :001_smile:

The *paperback* series of Lial's algebra is almost identical in format to the paperback BCM. Look for the title Introductory Algebra (7th or 8th editions are easy to find on half.com). That one is the paperback version. The one called Beginning Algebra is in a different format (this one is hardcover).

--snip-- Do you mind if I ask you long you've been a TOG user? Did you start using it when your children were in LG and if so, do you think it was worth it to start that early, or do you feel that waiting until D or R is the better choice? I'd love to hear your opinion and what you think of TOG in general since you appear to be a long time user. So many threads I've read about TOG have TOG users of only a year or two, not a seasoned TOG user as you seem to be. Any advice for someone with young children who is interested in using TOG in the future? -------- We're in our 6th year with TOG. Obviously, I love it :D We started TOG at the beginning of our 2nd rotation through history, having used the WTM as our guide through the first 4 years. Ds was 5th grade, dd in 3rd. For us, it was the perfect time to jump in. I was always drawn to TOG, had heard about it in its early years, but it was pulled from the market for a year or so, and I just kept on with WTM. When it was time to go through the Ancients again, TOG was back on the market, its earlier issues had been addressed, and I felt the Lord was nudging me to use it. The dialectic and rhetoric part of the plan was always the big draw for me. To be quite honest, I don't think using it in the LG years is necessary, unless you have older kids too. I think SOTW would be just fine for those years, concentrating your efforts on the 3 r's. Then, around the time your oldest is in 5th or 6th, you could make the jump to TOG. Just add in a few topics/features each week or 2 as you go along, until you find the right mix for your family. I posted on another thread this morning about how we used it in the D/UG years for my 2 kids. I so agree with TOG's philosophy of socratic discussion, reading meaty works, and *thinking*. I am just a total Marcia Somerville fan, I admit. Every article I read from her, further cements my intention for using the program. Her wisdom and insights speak to me. I want to be like her when I grow up ;) I encourage you to read as many of her articles as you can find on the Loom and the TOG website, and on the TOG forum. Her philosophy will become clear to you, and then you can make the right decision for your family. I am totally at peace with using TOG -- I see the fruits of it coming forth in my kids each day, and I'm not even interested in reading about other plans. I hope you find the program that the Lord is leading you to use, so you can feel that peace too!

My oldest was 5th grade and my youngest was 3rd grade when we started TOG. It's been too long ago for me to remember exactly what we did back then, but I do know I read most of it aloud. We did UG for them both (I started them each in D when they were in 6th). We devoted 2-3 afternoons a week to it. One day we would cover history (We always did History Core readings, and sometimes added in History In-Depth.) A second day we did Bible and/or church history. Each day was about an hour and a half at the most. Back then my kids' handwriting was still pretty large and took awhile, so I prepared map labels ahead of time -- I used the white address labels and wrote about 6 of the locations on each one and cut them out. Then while I read history each week, they would color their maps and draw in rivers and mountains (using the teacher's map as a guide). As we came across a place or city named in the reading we would stop and find the label and stick it on in the correct spot. After I finished reading we would stick on any additional labels that hadn't been referenced. After reading aloud, we might start working on a notebooking page, or we might wait and do that another day. :confused: My 5th grader read his lit on his own, and I read to my 3rd grader. That's all we did with TOG. I never even looked at the Teacher notes back then, and we didn't do any of the literature worksheets. Back then (I was using Classic) there were discussion/comprehension questions to go with the UG & D literature selections, and we did those when I remembered. We tried to do a hands on, but those usually got dropped on busy weeks. That's why I recruited friends the next year to start a co-op with me, so we could meet every 2 weeks to do a fun hands on project together. One year I was also caring for my dad who was dying from cancer. That year, we basically just did the reading and the maps. and only the history core readings at that. It was fine, and my kids still learned a lot. The first year of D for each child, we still did a lot aloud, and followed this same format. The only thing that really changed at first was the D student added in the accountability questions. I didn't require full sentence answers in the D years, so it added another hour or so to the weeks' work. Just try to remember that you don't need to do it all. I originally started TOG with the high school years in mind, and that's where we are now. This is where TOG really shines -- it is so rich in the rhetoric. don't burn yourself out on TOG in the early years so far that you get tired of it and drop it. I'd hate for you to miss out on the wonderful rhetoric years!

There's a book called "the History of Underclothes"???? wow -- who'd a thunk it?

Notebooking was my kids favorite part of doing TOG when they were UG & D. I got a lot of my ideas from this website http://highland.hitcho.com.au/tog2.htm

Ya'll have given some great ideas. It sounds like we're going to have to start from scratch on this one. I was hoping there would be something already made up! :nopity: I suppose the place to start would be to have my dd try to narrow down exactly what she's wanting to learn about. This could be a huge area to cover!

The Well of Sacrifice -- our dialectic kids loved it, esp. the boys. a little gory -- descriptions of Mayan sacrifices, but well written and interesting story.

Leana, thanks for reporting on your findings! I'm in year 2 now and hadn't heard of Discarded Images. I was wondering how I had missed it???:confused: I've got the newer, DE version, so that explains it. Thanks!

I haven't used or seen VP so I can't help with a comparison, but I did want to comment on a couple of your points. also, I'm in the D and R levels, so that is what is most clear in my memory. We began TOG in UG, so I can't really speak to what is covered in LG. (and sorry I don't know how to multi quote!) re: Bible & character: TOG covers the Bible systematically in the year 1 plan, covering almost the entire Bible (especially in D and R levels). I was very pleased with the amount of Bible my kids got. The remaining year plans do not cover Bible as a subject, but instead cover church history. Character is woven throughout the 4 year plans through the teacher notes and discussion scripts for D and R. There are scripture references scattered throughout with added notes on what the Bible would say about particular events and historical figures, and discussion questions that go over these. Our kids in co-op bring their Bibles with them to class because they know we'll be looking up scripture at least once each class. re: comparing total number of topics, I wonder whether VP begins a year plan with a review week or 2 of previous years? TOG does incorporate review along with new material in the first week of each year plan, to help those who are new to the program. re: your closing comment: My main concern is worldview. I want to train my children's hearts and teach them the wisdom and knowledge to be gained from history. This is exactly why I use & love TOG. The teacher notes are so rich with this, and it teaches my kids *and me* exactly what you say here. I know I could teach my kids history using a method like WTM, but I could never be wise enough to make connections between historical events/figures (from the ancients all the way through present day) and scripture. To me, these connections found in the teacher notes are the true value of the program. Of course, I tell everyone that every family is different! You've got to find what works best for you, and I know VP is a great program too. I hope I've given you a little more to help you in your decision.

What are the best art programs for high school? I'm looking primarily for drawing or painting for beginners, but would like it to be enough for a credit (or half). thanks! Jana

My daughter is interested in learning about fashion history as an elective for high school. Anyone have a link or know of a course already made up? thanks! Jana

I'm looking for the link to the site mentioned here awhile back that has Rosetta Stone at a deep discount price. Anyone happen to have that link? And anyone with experience purchasing from there? thanks! Jana

:iagree: Great advice, Brenda. We homeschool moms sometimes forget that we're the ones in charge!

Have you sought any advice from the TOG forums? I've seen lots of posts in the past on folks looking to pare down TOG, or what items in the program to scale back on, etc., even from Marcia and Dana. They are always very helpful! I know you asked about completely changing programs, but if it were me I'd probably try to cut back and still use TOG for the remainder of the year simply because of the investment. Then next year I might look into changing completely. You've already put the money into TOG, and if the problem is too much material, can you just scale back and do part of it?

How about just following WTM as written? It sounds like it would be a good fit for you!

TOG does have a list of anywhere from 5-10 arts & activities that go along with each week (not planned per day, as you mentioned with KONOS). Usually, the actual instructions for those activities are in a book that is referenced (ex. Colonial Kids by Carlson). You can then do as many of the activities that you want: either the ones picked by TOG or you can choose your own.

Do you have Microsoft One Note on our computer? My laptop (Windows Vista) came with it preinstalled. It does everything you describe, and I love it! It is arranged like a notebook with tabs that you label with whatever categories you want. Then you can cut & paste whatever you want to on the pages -- links, copies of WTM posts, you can type Christmas lists, whatever. It automatically saves when you close it down. I use it all the time, with a notebook for homeschooling and another for personal.

Kelli is right, you can see the book lists on the Tapestry of Grace website by clicking on "Store" and the "Resource List". You do have to create a free account first, but then you just customize which list you want to see by year plan, level, unit, etc. I like this list better than the one at Bookshelf Central because it is easier to print out (no graphics of book covers).

Lial's worked really well for my ds, who is in geometry now (Jacobs) but will return to Lial's next year for Alg 2. My dd is using BCM and will use Lial's next year for alg 1. I do have the solutions manual. I used it a lot towards the end of the year. Not sure if I really needed it or if I just got too lazy to think the problems through for myself, but I was glad i had it!

BCM is mastery approach. It is a very good "prealgebra" program because it covers all the basics from adding & subtracting to decimals, fractions, percents, ratios, measurement, geometry, negative numbers, beginning algebra, and statistics, and explains them all from the very beginning. I especially like the way it teaches percents. There is probably a solutions manual, but I've never needed it. It has the answers to all the odds in the back, and that's what I've assigned. I we get a wrong answer, we can always determine the correct solution on our own. Now for algebra, it's a different story ;)

hmm, I've never had this problem. but you could always call them and place your order over the phone if it eases your mind!

We're in our 6th year with TOG, too, and I just wanted to add that I did the same thing -- never even looked at the teacher notes until my kids were Dialectic. I did lots of reading aloud with them in the LG & UG stage, and talking about what we read, but that was it. I had them color their maps while I read, and I gave them labels that I had already prepared with the location names, since their writing was too big -- they would get so frustrated with trying to fit the words on themselves. Back then we spent about 2 hrs. a week on history. Ahhh, the good ol' days :001_smile: I'll also chime in that the redesigned is much better than classic, especially in the teacher notes for Dialectic. There were many questions in the D level that were not answered in Classic, mainly because they felt the real focus on correct, specific answers came in the Rhetoric years. Earlier than that, it was learn what you can and enjoy it.

My elderly mom recently fell & broke her right shoulder, and spent 6 weeks with her arm in a sling bound to her torso. She was not able to hold a book or turn pages, so I had thought she might have enjoyed either a kindle or an ipod for audio books. However, she is very non-technical so I knew it would just be too frustrating. Unfortunately, about all she could do was sit and watch tv. She was so bored, but she lives some distance from us and we weren't much help. She really couldn't think of much of anything she needed, she just needed lots of help from caregivers (she lives in assisted living.)