I would second K12 (that is secular) but it can be pricey. Have you looked at the Christian Kids Explore series? I like the way that program is laid out with short lessons, hands-on projects or experiments, etc. Check it out at http://www.brightideaspress.com. Apologia's elem. science is good, too, and you can buy kits that accompany each book that will have all the materials you will need for the experiments.

Christian, secular or does it matter?

Christian Kids Explore Earth and Space is a wonderful curriculum to go along with Apologia Astronomy! We used the CKE Biology last year and really enjoyed it (well, I enjoyed it and some of my kids did :)). E&S is set up the same way. Short lessons with hands on projects. Perfect fit, if you ask me. E&S does have a Unit on the Solar System, so you could just skip that since you are using Apologia and getting more in depth anyway. You can look at it at http://www.brightideaspress.com. HTH

Happy Birthday, Dawn! Hope you have a great day!

Wow...didn't realize there had been any more discussion on this thread! Just to clarify...I wasn't upset (and perhaps my post seemed to insinuate that I was) about the testing. My dh was the one that suggested it anyway so we could figure out if he would be better off SKIPPING 4th grade. Honestly, the kid has not taken a standardized test before (he actually will in a month as per PA requirements) so I was worried how he would do...not academically, but just testing in general, KWIM? I've known many brilliant children who just do not TEST well. This woman was just annoying...my decision NOT to send my son isn't based solely on her. Before even visiting the school, my GUT was telling me to keep him home until middle school but dh insisted we check it out. Well, even dh thinks we should keep him home one more year at least and my son wasn't really excited one way or the other. He's cool w/ our decision. And, as always, a decision is never set in stone so if things don't work out well next year at home...we can always enroll him later. We are doing what we think is best for each individual child right now AND what is best for our family as a whole. As I plan on taking 2 Masters classes in the Fall...it was necessary that some of the kids went back. So, I feel at peace about this decision and believe it is God's will right now. Thanks for all the great feedback. I can always count on you guys for advice and support. :)

Dawn, I'll be happy to send you a list once I get it all together. That could take a few days. :) I've been mulling this over for days know and just need to get the box out and go through them. Are you looking for something in particular?

We've only been homeschooling for 4 years. Dd12 spent 4th - 7th at home, ds10 2nd -5th. Both will attend public school again next year. First 2 years we were with cyber academies. As for History, ds10 had a year of ancients and a year of Rome - Ref. or thereabouts w/ the cyber. Dd12 had a year of moderns and then a year of Amer. Hist through the Civil War w/ the cyber. Then we began our journey homeschooling independently. So, we started back with Ancients using MOH...we got through Egypt :glare: (it was a rough year). This year we tried using MFW ECC and gave that up, too. :glare: Another rough year. So, next year they go back to school. Dd12 will study Amer. Hist from around the Civil War...so that's good. But, she's had little to no world history yet at all. Ds10...not sure what they study in 6th. He's had 2 years of world, no American (no biggie...he'll get that in 7th and 8th). Ugh. I'm just feeling like I've spent so much time waffling btwn. curriculums, trying this and that and in the process...screwing my kids up! Don't even ask me about science! Tell me they will be fine. Tell me I've not screwed them up for good.

Just curious where you would try to sell a bunch of the Stampin Up! rubber stamp sets. Ebay? Craigslist? I have a HUGE box full of stamp sets...some retired, some mounted but never used, some not even mounted...they are just taking up space in my closet. I just don't have time for stamping projects anymore. I'm keeping some for my daughter and some that I really, really love, but the others could be sold to pay for part of a vacation or something. Where would you sell them to get the most profit? Thanks.

How much is a LOT? I have a 1G card for my camera and it holds like 700 pictures or so? It is only a 4mb camera so maybe a bit less for a 6.1 mb camera. I would guess a 2G would hold double, right?

It's complicated, but my dd12 I think will do really well in school next year. She's had a tough year and her counselor actually had some amazing insight into the situation. She said it sounds like my dd is torn btwn wanting to be a normal 12yo girl and also wanting to be the "little mother" at home who helps with her siblings (she does a great job of that). So, my dh and I both think it will do her some good to just enjoy being a 12yo next year. As for ds10, there a bunch of music opportunities at the middle school that we really can't provide him here b/c of money issues. He could get guitar lessons, play in a jazz band, get drawing lessons, etc. I really don't worry about him at public school and dh, again, thinks it's best for him at this point. So...there's the story. :)

Well, we do live in an area where the school probably does see a lot of kids who were "homeschooled" but really just kept at home and not really education. Especially b/c here in PA a parent does not have to register a child for school (or homeschool) until they are 8 (3rd grade). I'm not that upset anymore. I was just upset that she said all this in front of my son and with the tone that said, "come on honey, we'll get you all straightened out!". KWIM? I had some reservations about sending this kid back anyway and this was just confirmation. So, thank you God for that! I think he'll do much better in the middle school for 5th or 6th. Funny thing was, we had our 3yo dd with us and our ds6 as well. The counselor and test administrator both asked if they'd be "getting" them next year, too. I just shook my head and said, "um, no". I said, "in fact, our 3yo could probably TEACH your preK class b/c she is that advanced." I probably shouldn't have been so arrogant, but mama bear had already emerged and they are just lucky I kept the claws retracted! :)

Well, we visited the elementary school today to take a tour and get some info. for next year for ds9. Now, my dd12 and ds10 both attended this school 4 years ago before we pulled them out. I like the school. Today was really for ds9 to get a feel for the school and the layout and meet the counselor, etc. Well, the counselor is new and she was friendly enough, but I felt the whole time like we were intruding. She rushed through the tour, didn't introduce us to anyone, acted as though it were a definite that ds9 would be attending instead of putting her "best foot forward". So, then we meet this other staff member who does the testing for the school. She rushes over to us, introduces herself and asks us when we would be bringing ds9 back for his testing. Huh? She goes on to say that many children who come to school from homeschooling are very far behind in all subjects b/c the parents just don't have a clue as to what grade level they are at and what work they should be doing at what age. I calmly explained that I certainly had a "clue" as to what "level" my son was functioning and what he knew and did not know. She shook her head and said that I couldn't possibly know what grade level he would test into and that she'd just have to give him the tests in ALL subjects just to make sure. Her tone was basically...just give him to us deary so we can whip him back into shape. You played your little homeschool game for 4 years and ruined your son now let us fix him. I left there shaking my head and both my husband and I said there was no way we'd send him there next year. How can a school change so much in 4 years? Anyway, that leaves ds9, ds8, ds6, dd3 and ds1 at home next year and ds10 and dd12 in public school. Fun, fun!

Well, thanks again...it does look like Beyond will be the best fit. I've learned also that pushing them to do the more complicated stuff before they are ready kills the joy in learning. He has plenty of time for the "heavy" stuff. Thanks for the confirmation!

We just signed up today! My ds8 had given me such a fight about schoolwork that I was willing to try anything to keep him learning. Somebody on this board suggested Time4Learning b/c ds8 loves playing video games and computer games. So far, so good. He really enjoyed it but got frustrated when the math was too "hard". It really wasn't, but he just didn't want to think! Anyway, I can't see it being our entire curriculum, but for now...anything is good and he is learning!

Thanks ladies for your input. I see from your posts that Beyond might be a better fit than I originally thought. I, too, plan to use my own LA and math since we have something that works. Since my 8yo hasn't enjoyed school and has fought me tooth and nail about doing schoolwork thus far...perhaps a "lighter" day would be best anyway. I have, btw, signed up at the HOD board but haven't gotten my authorization to post yet. I thought I would post here, too, since I know many of you use HOD. I'm excited about this. Of course, I was excited about MFW, too, and that didn't work very well this year. :glare: I still have some praying to do, but in my spirit HOD seems "right". Thanks again and keep the input coming if there is anyone else!

Next year my 3 oldest children are going back to public school. I will have ds8, ds6, dd4 and ds1 at home. Ds8 is my challenge child (Aspergers) and I've yet to find any program that really motivates him. This past year, we tried to use MFW ECC and while I loved the concept...my kids just were not thrilled with studying Geography all year. I've resigned myself to just studying the locations of the countries with them, doing the Bible and skipping the rest. Anyhoo...can somebody talk to me about the two programs I mentioned? I'd love to combine my ds8 and ds6 in ONE program but Beyond seems too easy for ds8 and perfect for ds6 while Bigger seems just right or maybe even a bit challenging for ds8 and way beyond ds6. HELP! Ds8 is a challenge, as I've said. He is extremely bright, can read very well, but hates to write. He does not like to be bored, do workbooks or anything that he "already knows". He catches on to new concepts quickly and to go over them repeatedly bores him. Can anyone advise on which program would be a good fit? I really can't see myself doing 2 b/c I'll likely be doing MFW K with my 4yo. AAAGGGGHHHH!

I agree with Rosie that overeating is usually linked to some other underlying issues. Is she open to counseling? A good counselor will be able to get to the root cause of the overeating. Hopefully, once that is dealt with and inner healing begins, your mom can begin the outward, physical healing. I'll be praying for her.

A few thoughts after reading the last dozen posts: There are times when my dd apologizes out of "obligation" or hope that a punishment will not be carried out. Last night, her apology was sincere. She KNEW she screwed up (lost control). She wasn't happy about the initial consequence (losing the trip) but was ready to suffer it AND apologize as well. My problem with losing the trip was that the trip was never tied to behavior in that we never said "you can go only if you never misbehave or make a mistake from now until then". Dh reacted as anyone who had just been surprisingly punched would have...gut reaction, KWIM? As I said, we have used punishment like this before (taking away privileges, having her miss play dates or sports games, etc.) but to no avail. The behavior continues. It's the heart issue that I am concerned about. As the Scripture says, "for out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks" (paraphrase). Same w/ behaviors. What is it that she is holding in her heart that makes her behave like this? This is the reason we took her to counseling to begin with. She is going back to ps next year, b/c she has said that much of her sadness is from her lack of friends/peers. Dd is the oldest of 7, with 4 brothers right after her, then a 3yo sister and a 1yo brother. Anyway, I am so encouraged by the discussion so far...thanks for the words of wisdom.

Have not read the Explosive Child. In a nutshell...what is the Plan A vs. Plan B child? We are the kind of parents who discipline each child according to what works best for him/her. We have a lot of strong willed children...dd12 being one of them, as you can see. Our punitive parenting in the beginning only caused more rifts in our relationships and obviously did not change the behavior. This is why I just felt the need to move toward a more grace-based parenting approach...one that was more in line with how God parents us. He doesn't sit up there with some wand ready to zap us whenever we lose control or screw up. He parents with grace. Sure, there are natural consequences to suffer (run up credit card bills and get into enormous debt...suffer the consequences of having to pay it back, eat all the junk food you want and you are overweight and suffer a malady of other illnesses, don't wash your clothes, you don't have clean clothes to wear, etc.). I lose self-control at times (more than I care to share) and God doesn't zap me with a wand and "punish me". I'm just having a hard time figuring out some natural consequences or even logical consequences. Dh is in full agreement with me, has spoken to dd and she did apologize, but both dh and I agree there should be some sort of consequence other than taking away the trip. I'm leaning more toward some chore or something that would "make it up to her father". Serving him in some way that would bless him and make up for her hurting him. I just don't know...

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. Some background: Dd is in counseling for her anger issues and some other issues that I've been conerned about. She sees the same counselor that I do b/c I trust this woman 100% and she is very good at her job. As to this particular situation, I did back up dh in front of our dd and we later discussed the issue in private. He agreed that taking away the trip might be too "hasty" and also agreed that we need to pray about a more "fitting" consequence. What that is...I don't know right now. What I do not need is my relationship with my dd further injured. It is already on shaky ground. Dd is completely respectful, self-controlled, sweet, helpful, etc. when with other people. We are always told what a wonderful girl she is. It's her behavior at home that disgusts me. I realize that my own problems (depression, anger, etc.) have been extremely detrimental. Restoring and rebuilding relationships will take time. Again, thanks for all the responses. I don't feel like we did the wrong thing in letting her go, but I don't really feel like it was right either. Make sense? I'm just so frustrated. I suppose I will bring this up to her counselor on Monday.

Here is the situation. My 12 yo dd is extremely disrespectful toward me and her father. When she is corrected, when she gets angry or upset about something, thinks that we have been unfair to her, etc., she will often lash out, call us names, call us unfair, liars, accuse us of hating her or loving her siblings more, etc. I realize that much of this is normal adolescent "hormonal" outbursts. We ignore most of it. Yesterday, she blew up at my husband b/c he sent her to her room for a time-out b/c she had just hit her 6yo brother. She felt it unfair b/c 6yo bro was not disciplined (punished) as she would have liked. So, back and forth, back and forth the argument goes and she is warned that she needs to stop, close her mouth and cool down in her room before she says or does something she will regreat. Dh tells her to go back to her room and dd proceeds to walk by dh and punch him in the back as hard as she can. Dh reacts by yelling that she can not go to Hershey Park with her friend on Sunday (tomorrow). Dd starts crying, calls me to her room and through her sobs tells me that she is sorry, she didn't mean to hit him, she just "reacted" without thinking and that she knows her punishment will still stand but that she really just didn't think before she acted. Now, in my mind, taking away her trip to Hershey Park won't teach her anything. Similar consequences in the past have not worked either. Not to mention, the tickets were already purchased in advance, by her friend's family and to tell them she can't go at the last minute makes them out about $40. Not good. Now, I'm not saying there should not be consequences...but what? I'm leaning toward grace-based parenting b/c it just feels "right" in my spirit. Punitive parenting has not worked. So, if you do GBP (or GBD...grace based discipline), what would you do in this situation? How would you respond? Thanks for any suggestions or advice.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Depression is not fun. I've struggled w/ off and on depression for most of my adult and adolescent life. I started seeing a therapist in Sept. and it was the best thing I could have ever done. A few months ago I hit a "wall". Therapy was helping but I still had this "cloud" over my head. So, I went to a dr. and got an Rx for anti-depressants. It was the hardest thing I ever did and probably the best. I don't want to be on meds for the rest of my life and am hopeful that with continued therapy I can wean from the meds soon. For me, the meds are simply a way for me to create new habits, new ways of thinking, to re-train my brain to function in a healthy way. Studies have shown that we can actually re-train our brains to work differently. Medication is helping me do that. I urge you to see a counselor before going on meds. In my opinion, the two should go hand-in-hand. That's just my opinion. Good luck to you. My prayers are with you.

First...congratulations to you! Way to go...keep it up! We all watch The Biggest Loser every week and it has inspired me to finally lose the "baby weight". After 7 kids...well...let's just say I am carrying more weight than I ever had. I've lost 10 lbs. in a month and have been exercising more. Here is something encouraging that my friend told me yesterday: When you are tempted to eat something "not so healthy" (cookies, doughnuts, cakes, chips, etc.) just tell yourself this: "That _______ will never taste as good as thin feels".

Interesting that you should mention this. Last night at worship rehearsal, our leader told us a sad story. That day, her husband who is the assoc. pastor of our church was alone in the church when a man walked in. Not your typical "church goer"...this guy had tatoos all up and down his arms, nose ring, biker clothes. He was a former Hell's Angel. He proceeded to tell our assoc. pastor his story. 15yrs. a Hell's Angel, rough life, did lots of "not so good" things, etc. 11 wks. prior he had been shot and while in the hospital gave his life to Christ after a nurse witnessed to him. He left his hometown to find a place where there wasn't a big Hell's Angel contingency. He visited about 3 churches in our area and NONE (I repeat, NONE) accepted him. One even told him to go to the inner-city where he might "fit in" better! This man was broken and desperate to find the love and acceptance that Jesus spoke of in the Bible. He wanted to change his life but nobody would accept him "as is". So, he came in to our suburban, middle-class church to tell his story. He said our church seemed "different", but that for him...it was too late. He was boarding a plan in 3 hours to go back to his hometown and rejoin the Hell's Angels. At least there...he was accepted and loved. Isn't that sad? I just cried when she told that story. As Christians, it is our duty to spread the love of Jesus. Not to judge, not to condemn, not to force feed people some religious mantra. LOVE. We are all sinners. We are all broken people looking for love and acceptance. Period. I'm grateful and forever thankful that Christ died for me. It's the most wonderful gift. But, it's not just for me. It is for everybody. My sins are many, but Christ's death and resurrection on that cross at Calvary wiped them all away. What a gift! What freedom! What LOVE! Anyway...great post. Necessary wake up call for us all. People are people. Period. No matter what their "faith".

Well, after 4 years of homeschooling, my dd12 and ds10 decided they wanted to go back to ps. Dh and I prayed a lot about it and decided to let them try ps next year. They are both excited. We are sending ds9 back as well b/c his attitude at home just isn't conducive to learning for anyone. However, we are keeping my ds8 at home and probably ds6. For us, it's all about what is best for each indiv. child. And, as no decision is set in stone, all the dc know that they can be pulled out of ps at any moment if they are not doing well (bad grades, behavior, wrong friend choices, etc.).